Eagle92

As others have mentioned, yes shop around. I joined the troop that everyone else in my den joined. It wasn't a good fit, and got worse after a few months. I quit, then got hooked up with my cousin's troop. BEST DECISION I EVER MADE! So look around. One caveat though, I wouldn't expect a HA trip every year. They take time and $. Also sometimes troops will band together to form a contingent, or one troop will have openings. So if a "troop" doesn't go on a HA trip, ask if anyone form the troop has.

Eng, HORSEHOCKEY! (Yep that's me shouting this go around ) If your son want to go, tell him HE needs to fugure out how to pay it. Is $3500 a lot of money, HECK YEAH (that would have paid for ER visit last year), but it is about 2 years away, and there are ways for him to get the funds. PM me if you want some ideas.

Yep I remember when I went to summer camp as a youth. With the exception of my 3rd year, I averaged 4 MB classes or instructional swim and 1 free period. One year I took part of my free period slot to work on a 5th MB. Only Indian Lore and pottery, the one I took during free period, were not true scoutcraft or aquatic MBs. I Lore was excellent as the head of the lodge dance team conducted that one. free periods were just that: free time, time to go swimming, boating, shooting, or complete something you were wrokign on for a MB. Never did partials, as we were told in advance what needed to be done prior to camp, and we better have it or you got a partial. Nighttime had intertroop competitions, campfires, and fun activities. Best memory is "Jailbreak" in which each staff member had a watermellon bounty, so if you caught a staffer,you could get from 1-15 watermellons for your troop (alas nobody ever caught the staffer with 15 melons on his head. Found out years later how Aquaman did it, and it was ingenous. And I ain't saying ) You also had time to work on stuff at nite and goof off. Third year was different as I took up the Trailblazer program the camp offered. You had to be 13 and First Class by January 1st, so I was 14 when I did it, and it was a small scale HA program. M-Th was spent in the back country, blazing trails, building survival shelters, going backpacking. We actually came into camp early, there was some damage to the outpost shelter we were suppose to stay at and we decided to hike back to camp, but still stayed at the trailblazer shelter away form the troop. Thursday was a review of what we did, BP's adage about Adavancement and Suntans was very apt, and was a skills review of canoeing. Friday was a canoe trip. Learned a very important lesson on that trip: 10 people can fit in a Volkswagen bug I only got 2 MBs that summer, but man did I have some fun. I didn't go back to summer camp again until I was 19 and a ASM. Things changed. Classes were offered at nite time, so there were fewer nitetime activities for the troops. Somehow the focus wen tform having fun and eanring a few MBs to getting as many as possible. First year camper went from being a 3 period course to an all day course so that the scouts could get FA and Swimming, plus whatever other MBs they were working on at nite. Paperwork MBs like the Citizenships were being offered. I was told that was how they kept folks coming back. it was pitiful. More later

Ok, I'm getting a better understanding of the situation now. It's partially the scouts not knowign what to do, so yes a little, stressing LITTLE, help and guidance is needed. But it sounds like the major obstacle so far is the committee, and if it's the case then yes you are doing right and giving them info. Ok here's some additional info specific to Aquatics. There is now a BSA Aquatics Supervision:Paddle Craft Safety course. I don't know much about it, haven't taken it yet, but form the description found here http://www.lhacbsa.org/LDS/Events/AquaticsTrainingMayLDS2011 Paddle Craft Safety and Swimming and Water Rescue provide in-depth training in Safe Swim Defense & Safety Afloat principles along with basic swimming, boating, & rescue skills. Situations requiring more advanced skills are reviewed, with sources for such trainings. These 2 courses are highly recommended for unit leaders whenever a unit swims at a location without professional lifeguards or undertakes a boating expedition without a trained lifeguard...Safety Afloat awareness training provides guidelines for safe float trips and is required of unit leaders, but does not provide the skill training mandated by those guidelines. Paddle Craft Safety expands Safety Afloat training to include skills, as well as knowledge, to prepare a unit leader to confidently supervise canoeing or kayaking excursions on flat water...Successful completion of these trainings takes a minimum of 8 hours of instruction (for each) and each is valid for 3 years. All Paddle Craft Safety and Swimming & Water Rescue training participants must: Be at least 16 years of age Be able to complete the BSA Swim Test Have a current/valid BSA Annual Health & Medical Form So that training may be a start for you to prep for you trip. Other things I'd do for the next 12-18 months. 1) Treat every weekend trip as if it was a water trip, i.e. packing the basics, waterproofing everything (you'd be surprised), and if possible do some canoe weekends. 2) Have every scout interested work on Canoeing MB, whether at summer camp or on their own. 3)Have weekend trips were you focus on aqautic skills, i.e. rescues, first aid (please include ID of hypothermia ) reading the water routes etc. 4) Repeat 3 some more - 5) Get an outside expert if you feel uncomfortable or want to have them evaluate the group. 6) Make sure your scouts are doign the teaching and supervising of skills. It can be hard, it can get interesting at times (don't recommend doing swamped canoe drills with water skiers around) and it can sometimes even get distracting ( two words: bikini-clad girls), but if they work, and work and work, with an emphasis on improving their skills, it will become automatic for them to handle situations on their own. 7) Something like a canoe trip that they have prepared for can actually build the troop and get it on youth run footing. Good luck.

Another idea to help out, have your troop get either an old copy of WOODS WISDOM, or buy the 4 volume update TROOP PROGRAM HELPS V1-3 and TROOP RESOURCE BOOK. They have ideas that the scouts can use and run with. I fyou do everything in the books, you got three years of program without repeats. But sometimes repeats are fun and are what the scout s want.

Eng, I cannot describe it. There is something about meeting people all over the USA, and world for WSJs, with so many activities and so many different things going on, you just cannot do everything at a NSJ or WSJ. Scuba, rifle and shot gun, kayaking rapelling, and i can go on and on. Is it worth it, yes it is. BUT as I said previously, the scout needs to have some skin in the game. He needs to save his money, do any and all fundraisers possible, get a summer job to earn his money etc. YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR IT, BUT MAKE YOUR STEPSON EARN IT! (caps is emphasis, not shouting.)

I got an REI coupon if ya need to order it online 'Dad.

Some ideas to help. 1) Make sure you spread the experienced Scouts around the tenderfoots. 2) Alot of prep work for major trips is making sure the scouts know the basics, the T-2-1 stuff, and can do it in a very proficient manner. I'd have the older guys teaching the younger guys their skills. It gets the new guys up to speed, and keeps the older ones proficient. 3)Make sure your weekend camp outs use the basics, as well as any advance skills the scouts have been working on. 4) make sure to keep the older guys interest by not only letting them lead, but also do some stuff on their own. Good luck.

Wood, 1) WELCOME TO THE FORUMS. 2) the pocket on the sleeve,formally know as the Tech Pocket, but commonly known as the "Smokes Pocket," has only been around since August 2008 when the CUs came out. 3) If national could make the neckerchief an optional uniform item for boy scouts, despite it's usefullness, and being around since 1907 and Brownsea Island, since 1972, as well as the National Sea Scout committee getting rid of such traditional Sea Scout uniform items like the unit numbers on all shirts, CSPs and other insignia on working uniforms, and the First Class Anchors, aka Bugs, on covers, all of which date back to the 1920s, then you know nothing is sacred uniform wise. heck even advancement wise. I had the National Director of Venturing tell me and 20 other new DEs with years of experience in the program, that the Eagle Scout Award was being replaced with the new Venturing Silver Award as the BSA's top award. Shoulda seen the frenzy that ensued.

Cricket, You said you have a relatively new troop. NOW THAT CHANGES SOME THINGS! The dynamics of a new troop, or a troop that is rebuilding/starting over, is copmpletely different than an established troop. heck it mike take 5-8 years to make your troop "established" in my limited expereince, b/c of the turnover in both youth and adult leadership. It seems that just as you get a scout ready to take over, they age out, catch the " 'fumes," i.e. "Perfume and Car Fumes," or they quit the troop. If you want to get the PLs to actually do the work, may I recommend the 3rd ed. SMHB, both volumes. In it is a lesson plan to train your new scouts in the patrol method and to do things on their own. Will you have to update the info a little, yep b/c it was written in the 1920s or 30s, BUT THE BOOK CONTAINS THE FOUNDATION OF THE PATROL METHOD AND A BOY LED TROOP! (caps for emphasis, ok a little shouting too as I am a very big fan of Green Bar Bill, and equate him to saving the BSA after the Urban Scouting disaster, but I digress). If memory serves it takes about 6 months to get the scouts up to speed. You start off adult led and gradually, using hte process get them youth led. Now it isn't a panacea, it isn't a quick fix, and it is not an easy process. One troop I helped out with a few years back IS still stuggling to be 100% boy led. I mentioned some of those reasons above pertaining to the youth side of things, but one I did not mention was the interference of adults. Some adults get too involved, taking away from the scout experience. Some adults have transferred to more adult run troops bringing their sons with them, some have left Scouting altogether. A few have remained, and yes complained about "their treatment from the SM." Luckily I know the SM very well, heck I trained him, know the dad very well, his younger son is in my den, and I was able to explain the situation and rationale. Luckily a few of the other dads in the den who were scouts explained that the SM is right and that the scouts do the things for themselves and learn form their mistakes.

I bought the other half an ALPS Mountaineering bag for under $75 on sale form REI. 25 degree rated and about 3 pounds. SHE LOVES IT. I got Eureka 20 degree rated one via Campmor for under $80. It is approx 3.5 pounds, but is a LONG which is what you will need. I like longs b/c A) I am in that height range where some regulars are too short, and B) I like the extra room to store stuff at the foot and keep warm. BUT YOU DEFINITELY NEED A LONG (This message has been edited by Eagle92)

I saw the same problems almost 20 years ago when I was working on my degree on the HS level, and again a few year backs when I was teaching college. LB gives good advice. BUT my advice for your when you become a parent is to get involved with your kids, Encourage them to read and to do creative writing. Maybe they'll write some stories of their cruises with you Good luck with the tutoring you are doing.

My WB horror story is one that I got 2nd hand, but knew it to be true b/c of the results. 2 married folks hooked up during the course. They got caught, and it caused some MAJOR problems for the district during their divorces. Both were on the district committee, and one was also married to a member of the Key 3. You can imagine the headaches we got. Now my patrol during BA22, the predecessor to JLTC and NYLT, had major problems. In fact the only time during the entire week long course we really worked together as a patrol was when we were forced to by the patrol guides. We had arguments, we had people who didn't want to do their fair share, we had one guy who should NOT have attended the course due to his age, at the time the minimum age and rank was 13 and First Class and he was 12.5 and First Class but got in for political reasons, And he deliberately infected a blister he had so he could get out of the backpacking portion of the training and go home (yes blisters CAN get to the size of a baseball, I...KID...YOU...NOT!), and his share of the patrol gear was not redistributed to the entire patrol, but thrust upon his buddy instead, and I can go on. My patrol was a nightmare. While the course was awesome, my immediate patrol was horrible. In retrospect part of the problem was how they divided the participants into patrols. It was aged based with the 13 and 14 year olds in some patrols ( with one 12yo) and the 15+ year olds in the rest. When I staffed JLTC a few years later, they divided the patrols a similar way, one patrol of 13yos, 2 patrols of 14-15yos, and one patrol of 16-17yos. That 13yo patrol was just like my patrol in BA22: always late, not working as a patrol, arguing, etc.

Cricket, Planning is NOT above the ability of older scouts, it is just that now a days kids or so use to being told what to do, and if they do plan something being told "NO, we are doing it this way...., that most kids either do no do this or give up. If the PLC I was in could schedule a year's worth of activities using 16 different school calendars, IT CAN BE DONE! Ok off my soap box. What you may want to do is once the PLC makes a decision, utilize the SPL and older scouts, if you got a venture patrol use them, to float ideas, brainstorm, and GUIDE them through some preliminary planning process. Don't tell them what to do, ASK THEM QUESTIONS AND MAKE THEM THINK OF RESPONSES (caps for emphasis, not shouting). As for the year's worth of prepping, what is the problem with that? When I went to Canada, it was an 18-24 month process. Since we formed a separate troop for the occasion, we had a few meetings during that time, lots of fundraisers, and 3-4 weekends to go over canoeing skills. We covered and reviewed a lot of information: first aid, camping, cooking, and most importantly CANOEING, or as French Canadian brother Scouts said "CANUTE" (SP) Other major trips also require a lot of prep. Philmont, N Tier, etc. Give your scout a chance and you'd be surprised.

'96 While I do not like the "smokes pocket," I have used it to store...my compass Yeah I agree whoever though to that, and no button on the pockets, wasn't thinking, or has never been in the field.

Moose, Not trying to chastise you at all. having been involved with water activities for a long time, life guarding, 3 fifty milers, Sea Scouts, etc, I see the usefulness of this activity. As for specifying the exact type of pants and shirt, I agree it's adding to the requirements. Any pair of pants will work, although the nylon probably do work better than jeans or utility pants since you have to rewet them.

I've seen some hammocks that have a netting around them. All the comforts of a hammock, all the insect protection of a tent.

SP reminded me of a guy in my lifeguarding class. The only way he could float was when he either used his clothes, or with a PFD. Guy was 6'6'', approx 300 pounds, and had about 9% body fat. Whenever he went into the water, he sunk like a rock. And of course he was my buddy that I had to do rescues with.

I think the current swimming requirement of using your clothes for a floatation device is unneccessary since you need special type clothing like button down shirts & parachute type pants.. Clothes you normally would not be wearing when at the beach or boating. I must respectfully disagree with the statement above b/c is it considered a lifesaving skill, one that can save you. Actually I have done this activity with jeans, scout pants, comabt utility/BDU pants, and the old USN dungaree bell bottoms. Key is to keep the material wet. As for long sleeve, button down shirts, it is possible to do this with t-shirts and short sleeve polo shirts, although I admit it is easier to prevent the air from escaping in the long sleeve buttondown. Yep most folks boating are out for a day or two and a re palyign around. But some folks do wear long sleeves and long pants while underway as a means to protect against sunburn.

I held the Climb on Safely course and taught it back when I was a NCS COPE Director, back when climbing fell under that course instead of being separate. The BSA course is great for WALLS, but for true rock climbing, I'd advise working with pros. Yes I did some rock climbing and repelling, I don't advise "ratrunning" down the White Cliffs of Dover , and yes I was NCS certified, but neither gave the the confidence be the head instructor for actual rock climbing as it is truly an art that takes years to master. You got to know how to read routes, use equipment, etc. Not rigging up the tower at camp is a completely differently I'd do it in a heartbeat. Still no "ratrunning" as it is prohibited by the BSA (although it is a heck of a lot easier on a wall).

If a parent demands that their child bring a cell phone, might I offer a few suggestions. 1) It is understood in advance by the parents, scouts, and leaders that it is to be used in emergency situations only. Tommy Tenderfoot getting homesick is not an emergency. 2)It is understood in advance that reception and use are totally dependent on coverage, and that they maty be going into an area with no coverage. 3)It is understood that the Scout is 100% responsible for the cell phone. If it is lost, broken, etc., it is the Scout's responsibility, not the unit's. 4)It is understood that the cell phone is to be placed in a waterproof container, and SEALED in such a manner that if the seal is broken, it is easily detected, and the campout does nto count as a Scouting event for advancement or other Scouting purposes. (Got this last one from the DofE int he UK.)

Me personally I think a few things need to be done to improve Cubs. 1) Shorten it to 3 year preferably, 4 MAX. a 4.5-5 year Cub program is draining. 2)Do less arts and craft stuff, and do more outdoor stuff.

Thinking about it,there IS an badge that can be worn by those who know First Aid and CPR: First Aid Merit Badge. Grant you only youth can wear it, and yes I do wish FA MB was required for First Class like it was back in the day. In two instances where first aid was needed and folks knew I was a scout, they expected me to know what to do as it was a expected that a Scout should know first aid. Luckily the first time that happened, it was for something I learned earning Readyman since I was a brand new Tenderfoot. Second time was a little more serious, and the FA MB really helped. Further having a Bunch of First Class and higher scouts do first aid on me really proved to me the value of having First Aid MB required for First Class, that was the case of my rescue, and I strongly encourage every scout to make it the first MB he earns. Forgot to add, why do adults need recognition for something that is expected of scouts?(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

I believe oncve upon a time BSA did have such a patch, or something similar, but it was limited to Explorers. I think it was either a patch or armband, but don't quote me on that. I do believe that ARC makes such a patch that probably could be worn as a temp patch. As others noted though, FA and CPR certs do need constant updating.

OEAE, . Replacement parts are easy to come by if needed. Not necessarily. I'd need to go to Ebay and buy tents or parts as Eureka no longer makes the replacement parts for my Old Timberline. Then again my Eureka is 12+ years old, and the only thing I ever needed to fix on it is a pocket for the ridge pole, and that was this year. I love Timberlines.