Eagle74

A simple piece of advice from someone involved in emergency services. Don't wait until the emergency strikes to make your contacts. If you want to become involved during an emergency, find out beforehand what if anything, would be needed that your organization can offer. During a crisis situation I do not have the time or resources to learn about your group, its capabilities, its training, how well supervised it is and then match it to a task; especially early in the crisis. If however, I know beforehand that Troop 123 has the training and ability to assist at a shelter, assist at a rehab area for emergency workers, assist with providing meals, clearing downed trees (proper supervision/safe practices) etc., I now have a resource that can be called upon when it is most critically needed. As BW states, one thing that is top on my priority list for Boy Scouts is to thoroughly understand and know what to do during an emergency situation - what can/should be done at home, at school, at work, in the neighborhood. (Emergency Preparedness, First Aid, Fire Safety, and so on) Scouting can and should prepare you for this. What you do to help yourself and those immediately around you within the first minutes and hours is important because you become one less person that needs immediate direct assistance from my organization. And when people see someone who knows what to do, they follow. After a vicious storm a few years ago, our units arrived in one neighborhood with trees down, no electric, and flooded houses (urban flooding) and I recognized a number of local scouts and their families that were "taking care of business". They were organized, had a plan, and were making the best of a bad situation because they knew what to do. It was a beautiful sight to behold. We were able to move on quickly to other areas to assist others more in need of help. "Be Prepared" is as important now as ever.

Our planning meeting usually happens the second Saturday following summer camp week (3rd or 4th Saturday in July). Since it's been that way for years, everyone should know when it's happening and make it part of their personal schedule (it's also on our troop calendar well in advance). Still some vacation conflicts occassionally, but minimal problems. The school calendar for the coming year is a must - sometimes helps to have connections in the school system. Band camp, football practices, etc. for the fall are usually set by the time school ends in May. We get repeats of favorite activities from year to year also. Sometimes the adult leaders take a "How about something different this year?" stance. We usually repeat a climbing/rappelling campout and a canoe trip almost every year at the same location, but the boys really enjoy going back every year. A backpacking/base camp campout happens every year, but we try to move the location each year. LauraT7; Coming up with ideas is always the hardest part and only becomes easier when senior members of the PLC take the bull by the horns and stays on top of the rest of the PLC starting a couple of months before the annual planning meeting. Our PLC usually plans one regular meeting in late June with time for patrols to discuss/relay ideas for the upcoming year with PLs responsible for calling their patrol ahead of time with a reminder to come prepared with ideas. For the monthly activity/campout, the boys come up with plans only as definitive as the date, theme, and place (with an alternate place if possible). Further details are worked out about 90-60 days in advance. The committee activities planning liason is usually the one to make reservations, etc. - this is usually better handled by an adult - but coordinates with both the PLC and the troop committee. Seems to work for us, as the PLC works with him on the planning and the committee is well informed about details. Buffalo2; At the last committee meeting I threw out the idea of the committee serving lunch for the PLC annual planning meeting and they loved it. Thanks for the great suggestion!

Our troop's recent experiences mirror what BW & OGE posted above. Council still wants the complete package of paperwork, but my understanding is that only an Eagle application or electronic filing goes to National. We have been pleasantly surprised by improved turnaround time on the last few Eagle apps that were submitted.

Eamonn, I think we are agreeing for the most part - I may not be expressing myself clearly. I think that most of the BOR questions posted here go beyond the mechanics of reaching Eagle. As I look over the questions - many of which I have used - they try to draw out from the Scout the knowledge, life lessons, and leadership that he has learned and experienced. To me, the Eagle BOR, beyond making sure that all the ducks are in a row, is a time to reflect upon these things and look forward to how they apply to the future of the Scout. No tricks, no traps, no grill. I would never intentionally put a candidate "on the spot" or "watch him squirm"; I just really want to know if he has gotten anything out of his Scouting experience that he will take with him as he continues or moves on.

Re: my previous post; one must realize that there is no "right" answer. The intended purpose of the 13th point or which point to remove question is to elicit an introspective and retrospective reply regarding the virtues of the Scout Law and the Scout philosophy as a way of life. By the time a Scout reaches this level in Scouting he should have formed an understanding of the points of the Scout Law, the importance of each separately and as a whole, and how they have influenced him in his Scouting experience and life in general. A reply of "None of them" would be perfectly acceptable. The important part is the reply to "Why?". The intent of the questions should not be to grill a Scout or even to see how quickly he can think on his feet (my humble opinion) while at the same time rehearsed, read in a book answers aren't acceptable either. Guess you could say I look for something a little deeper. The Eagle candidate should have taken time to give some thought to the life and leadership lessons of Scouting (at whatever age he is at). That is where the true measure of an Eagle is; not in how many merit badges he has or how many knots he can tie. Those things are small steps along the way and icing on the cake.

Along with what point to add as the 13th part of the Scout Law; BSA came to you and said we need to remove one, which one would you remove and why?

Maybe this should go under the older myth debunking thread but here goes (questions at end): I had been led to believe, falsely as far as I can tell, that a BSA certified lifeguard was required for swimming activities and for a non-swimmer to be in a canoe. I had been told this a number of times, in various classes and by a variety of instructors. Finally, took another thorough look at the Guide to Safe Scouting Aquatics Safety section because I kept telling them I didn't remember reading it that way - or at least didn't interpret it that way. Safe Swim Defense section 1, only "strongly recommends" , but does not require a BSA lifeguard. Section 4 simply calls for designating "capable swimmers" as lifeguards. Safety Afloat section 1 again "strongly recommends", but does not require a BSA lifeguard. Section 3 states that a non-swimmer may ride as a passenger (canoe, raft, sailboat) with "an adult certified as a lifeguard or lifesaver by a recognized agency." Fully understanding that "strongly recommends" leaves the door wide open for BSA to say "we told you so" if something happens and also fully understanding that the BSA lifeguard training includes things that other programs do not: 1. What is a "lifesaver"? I let my Red Cross Lifeguard certification expire awhile ago and my BSA Lifeguard certification expire even longer ago, but I am a Certified Emergency Rescue Technician trained in all types of water rescue (still water, swift water, low-head dams, using powered boats, non-powered boats, shore based rescues, in-water rescues, etc) - in other words, if the BSA lifeguard gets into trouble I'm one of the guys that's going to save his behind. Does this qualify as a "lifesaver"? 2. What is a "recognized agency"? Who decides? 3. Am I missing something? Is there additional information somewhere else that I am not aware of? As far as I can tell, certification as a BSA lifeguard is recommended, but not required. Any insight that can be provided by the experience and knowledge I know can be found in the forum would be appreciated.

KoreaScouter's "controlled failure" is a solid concept, but only after Scouts have first been instructed, trained, or learned the "proper" methods. Allowing Scouts to fail before learning how to do something is not a "failure" on their part - they never learned how in the first place. I have seen this happen more often than I like; under the guise of "character building" or "learning from the school of hard knocks." It's a design for failure. Is this going to happen from time to time anyway? Sure, but why design the program that way? Then again, I'm not one to bang my head into a brick wall either. Once given the lessons and resources for success, let 'em have at it. This is where the boy-run part really helps. If, after knowing how to set up and having worked within a duty roster structure, the patrol decides they're going to wing it on the cooking/duty roster for the next campout, that's fine by me. They will soon learn that the rest of the program does not stop and wait for them due to their unorganized approach and they will see how much more efficient and effective the organized (usually, but not always, the more experienced) patrols are. May not even happen the first time around, but I will lay money down that they will learn by the second time. As for the foil dinner example, I would definitely clue-in a less experienced patrol - first-year patrol, for example. But, if I gave a clue to the experienced patrol, it would be a much more subtle "I think you guys might want to review that supply list one more time . . ." For us, foil is something that should be in the patrol or troop supply box anyway, but they just might have to go begging from another patrol. Totally agree that we don't need to set the boys up for failure since the best learning experiences will come from those things that everyone truly forgot about, unexpected problems, and other challenges along the way. This is where "adapt and overcome" will regularly come into play, and success or controlled failure becomes a more valuable life lesson.

OK, that didn't work; let's try just copying the whole article to here: Updated: 06-06-2003 11:19:50 AM Crew Rescues Injured Scout From New Mexico Cave ............ MARY PEREA Associated Press ALBUQUERQUE (AP) -- Rescuers surfaced Friday morning with a teenage Boy Scout more than 16 hours after he injured his leg 1 1/2 miles into a cave in south-central New Mexico. Reilly Walker, 14, of Corona was in good condition and was taken to nearby Lincoln County Medical Center in Ruidoso after he fell off a ledge about 2:30 p.m. Thursday afternoon while hiking with fellow Scouts in the Fort Stanton Cave on U.S. Bureau of Land Management land near Fort Stanton. The teen, who suffered a laceration to the leg, received painkillers and was placed on an orange gurney that rescuers pulled with ropes through narrow cave passages to the surface, said Hans Stuart, a BLM spokesman. ``Everything went wonderfully,'' Stuart said from the scene just after the rescuers surfaced with the boy at 7:07 a.m. ``He (Walker) is certainly conscious and in good spirits.'' Walker was placed in an ambulance to go to the hospital. Walker's father, Steven Walker, was with his son in the ambulance, Stuart said. ``His dad said he is a resilient, tough kid with a good head on his shoulders,'' Stuart said. The Walker family moved to New Mexico from Massachusetts last week, he said. Reilly Walker fell about 15 feet in the cave, which is about two miles long and has about eight miles of passages, Stuart said. A fellow Boy Scout stayed with the teen and helped to calm him when he panicked while others went for help, Stuart said. Rescuers _ about 40 at one point _ wound their way down the cave to reach the boy later Thursday. ``Some came out and others arrived to come in to relieve those who were tired because it was very arduous, painstaking work,'' Stuart said. ``There are areas there that are moist, so it can be slippery. There are areas where you have ups and downs. You have two areas where you have to crawl and the ceiling is two to three feet high,'' Stuart said. Rescuers crawled or stooped low through a 1,500-foot section of cave and crawled an additional 500 yards through another section as they pulled ropes attached to the gurney, Stuart said. ``They actually strung a telephone line in there to keep in touch with the rescue team,'' Stuart said. The cave's temperature averages 54 to 56 degrees, and Walker was wearing proper clothing including a hard hat, knee pads and gloves, Stuart said. The Fort Stanton cave, about 15 miles northeast of Ruidoso and a mile southeast of the fort, is third-largest in the state, Stuart said. ``It is a totally unimproved cave. No lights, no walkways, none of that stuff. That's the appeal to cavers,'' Stuart said. The cave, known for fragile crystalline gypsum formations, formed below the water table in a series of cracks or faults with passages that intersect at angles. Going into the cave requires hard hats and boots or heavy shoes. Walker is a member of Boy Scout Troop 108 from Estancia. The troop camped with other troops in the area this week. A group of Scouts went into the cave exploring Thursday, Stuart said. A police officer was one of the adults with the group and climbed out to call for help. ``It took him a full hour to get out, and he was hurrying,'' Stuart said. Cavers and volunteers from around New Mexico gathered to assist with the rescue, Stuart said. Exploration of the cave is restricted, but Stuart said the Boy Scouts had obtained the proper permits.

Here's a link to one news report (copy & paste to your web browser): http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?id=12138&sectionId=46

scoutldr: you're right on. I have tried for a few years to obtain definitive statistical data regarding the Eagle Scout percentages through the years. Maybe someone with BSA National connections could dig something up; # of Boy Scouts (this stat alone is elusive - Boy Scouts only, Scouts + Venture, Scouts + Explorers, etc), # of Eagles, by year since way back. The numbers below are the only thing I have been able to cull from various sources. Year / Eagles / Boy Scouts / % 1991 / 28,016 1992 / 31,791 1993 / 32,534 / 979,192 / 3.3% 1994 / 37,512 1995 / 30,240 Annual Report Stats 1996 / 37,715 1997 / 40,296 1998 / 41,167 / 1,023,442 / 4.0% 1999 / ??,??? / 1,028,353 2000 / 40,029 / 1,003,691 / 4.0% 2001 / 43,665 / 1,005,592 / 4.3% 2002 /

State of Maryland BLS certification(First Responder or EMTB)? 15 y.o.?

BSA470Firstaider; to put this gently, you're in over your head. I would recommend that you talk to a medical professional (emergency medical professional) or a medical legal professional regarding the confidentiality of medical records and the legal aspects of treatment at your level of training and expertise. You also need a thorough understanding of the limitations of your treatment parameters as related to what is permitted under the medical control guidelines established for the camp. I agree that parents have an obligation to inform leaders of potentially life-threatening conditions. Potential complications from the administration of meds beyond those prescribed and/or permitted by parents should not be an issue since they shouldn't be administered - including over-the-counter meds. Should something still happen - mom says OK give him aspirin for instance and there is an adverse reaction - the medical form is an adjunct for use by the medical professional(s) (EMS and physician) that will be providing definitive treatment for the condition. Under these circumstances the medical information on the form is of little or no value within the realm of "first aid" - first aid is exactly that; aid given first (at a basic level) until the patient can be turned over to a more advanced level of medical care or until arrival at a medical care facility. The contact information however, is becomes critical during an emergency situation. Note: Please do not construe this as any form of legal advice. You will need to consult a professional in your locale for advice specific to that area.

Gee, it's bad when you post a reply to your own posting - that was supposed to be "humorous" as in funny, not "humerous" as related to the bone (more correctly spelled humerus for the spelling police). Although I guess the humerous error was kind of humorous when I read it.

buffalo2 - I really like the idea of the committee doing lunch. Our planning meeting is in August and I will suggest that the committee or the SM/ASMs prepare lunch. While things occassionally get a little silly here, there are always tons of great ideas and good information for the taking.

I tell parents, especially first-year parents, that if they are going to send mail, cards are preferable to letters. Humerous cards can lift a boy's spirits without bringing on homesickness or making it worse. The message is key; don't send messages like "we miss you", "wish we could be there with you". Things like "we're looking forward to hearing about all the wonderful things you did at camp when you get home" or "make me something at the craft center" work better.

The camp our troop has attended for the past few years issues each troop a "phone pass" - a 6" long, 1"x1" painted piece of wood on a ring. We keep the phone pass in our lock box with the scouts' cash. A scout wanting to use one of the pay phones at the admin. building has to get the pass from a leader, so we know who is going to the phone and when. This allows us to track and take appropriate steps to address "homesick" phone calls. The staff is free to ask a scout for the pass when they see them at the phone - no pass; you shouldn't be using the phone. Seems to help. I like the idea of handling phone cards together with the stash of cash. (We haven't yet run into the problem of phone cards)

Good work 92_SPL. The annual planning meeting sets the tone for your troop's upcoming year. I have been involved with several troops, packs and posts as a Scout and a Leader. Different units handle planning meetings in different ways; I'll outline how my current troop does theirs. 1. We set the planning session for a Saturday, usually starting at 8 or 9 o'clock. All participants bring a bag lunch. Sometimes the session lasts into the afternoon, sometimes it's done right after lunch. 2. All current PLC members are expected to attend. Other members of the troop are welcome - they may contribute ideas, but may not disrupt the flow of the meeting. The PLC sits together at tables set up in a large square, "guests" sit off to the side. SM, ASMs, are also present to answer questions, guide, lead and sometime cajole as the situation dictates. 3. The PLC establishes a theme for each month - canoeing, wilderness survival, rock climbing, backpacking, local history, geology, etc. Usually they brainstorm ideas, writing them all on a markerboard or flip chart. Then they whittle the list down to twelve. 4. The PLC then maps out the year's calendar of events with tentative dates - campouts, tours, projects, etc. to match the themes. This includes specific destinations. This sometimes takes awhile since several good ideas might come up and discussion takes place to decide which one to concentrate on. 5. Planning for individual meeting agendas is not done at this meeting; meeting plans for the next month are done at the monthly PLC meetings. The meeting plans will reinforce the theme for the month with skill sessions, guest speakers or whatever else applies to the theme. 6. The planning meeting ends with PLC members assigned to research additional info that is needed for any of the planned activities. Some things that help the process: Everyone needs to come into the meeting with not only ideas, but also information about those ideas. You want to go to Grand Canyon; OK, what can we do when we get there, what does it cost, how will we transport the troop 600 miles, where are the campgrounds, can they be reserved, etc. Ideas can be backed up with brochures, info from websites, etc. Try to have the school/church calendar on hand so that the troop's activities don't conflict with major activities/holidays. Print out a large block monthly calendar from your computer so that a master calendar will show tentative dates and plans as agreed upon by the PLC. Print it out showing holidays. The goal of our annual planning meeting is to come away with the monthly themes for the upcoming year and tentatively planned specific activities (with dates). Details are worked out at monthly PLC meetings throughout the year. Remember that things might change from the planned schedule due to unforseen circumstances and have a few alternate plans ready. It doesn't hurt to have an alternate location for each planned campout - if there is a park or scout camp close by your location that can be used on short notice, it can serve as your backup plan for any campout on your schedule. Good Luck! You have already made a step in the right direction.

We keep the same schedule year-round - Troop meeting every Monday (except on school holidays), PLC first Tuesday of every month, Comm. Mtg. second Tuesday of every month, 1-2 activities every month, summer camp in July.

Eagle at age 12; certainly not probable, but at the same time, possible. The measure of an Eagle Scout is only in part what that scout did to earn the the right to wear the badge. The issue at that point is was it a giveaway, "earned" by mom/dad/scout leader, or earned by virtue of exemplary effort, work and leadership. The true, whole, and final measure of an Eagle Scout is what happens after that badge is pinned upon his chest. This is where many fall short of the mark.

Keeping the scouts clean - showers and swimming. Keeping the uniforms more "fresh" - improvised washing as noted above. One time we ended up with particularly dirty uniforms due to mud from a long, heavy rain. Fortunately, we had 4 deep leadership and one of us collected all the uniforms, made the half-hour trip into town, and washed them at the laundramat.

Good advice above. On behalf of the leaders and scouts of Troop 468, Milford, Ohio, we extend our deepest sympathy and prayers during this most difficult time.

Asst. Chief of a suburban township fire / emergency medical services department. Registered land surveyor before that.

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