Eagle732

I decided to try one of our recently purchased unauthorized fundraiser pizza kits from Corbi's for dinner tonight. Opened the box and inside is a coupon for some of their other products. On it is a picture of a group of people representing some of the groups that use Corbi's. And in this group is a Cub Scout in full uniform! Could this be what BSA is upset about? There is a disclaimer stating that those pictured should not be considered an endorsement.

I looked at the link to poisonous plants and yes there are many in our region that could be identified during the winter. However reviewing page #59 in the handbook shows IMO that the poison ivy, oak and sumac plants are the focus of the requirement. Also the requirement refers to page #318 for first aid however that page refers you back to page #59! Page #318 does have actual pictures of the poisonous plants. Having pictures on hand might be a way to complete the requirement but there is nothing like pointing out the plants during a hike.

It was verbal. Council also said that other similar fundraisers such as Little Caesars pizza are approved, only Corbi's is prohibited.

I don't know if the CC can act as an ASM but what really bothers me is this statement "SM humiliated our son at a campout in front of the entire troop and then drug my son out of his tent while he was still in his cot one morning at 5 AM." This is unacceptable if it happened as described. In fact dragging a boy anywhere could be considered criminal.

Tenderfoot requirement #11 states "Identify local poisonous plants; tell how to treat for exposure to them." How does a Scout ID local poisonous plants such as poison ivy during the winter when there is none? I guess he could look at pictures in the book but is that the same as finding the real thing? Is it fair to make them wait 4 months until the poison ivy starts growing? Any suggestions?

Had a meeting with the council finance person today, here's the official story. Council was directed by National about 1 year ago to notify all units that selling Corbi's will not be allowed. The decision was based on what BSA felt was trademark infringement with using it's name and logo improperly. National is working with Corbi's and they may become an "authorized" fundraiser in the future.

I asked our U.C. on Weds. to check into this. We'll see if he comes up with an answer.

There was no mention of wearing the uniform or not, if that were the case they could have sent a notice out that said no uniform shall be worn during selling and no fundraising permits would be approved. In reality it's the parents selling it to other family, friends and coworkers. Council just said it is not an authorized fundraiser and if you have any questions call your commissioner. No other explanation given.

First off I'll assume that Joe Corbi Pizza is not sold throughout the country. The company is located in Baltimore, MD and make pizza kits and other food products for non-profits and other organizations to sell as fundraisers. My units have sold these products, they are of good quality, their service is good and the profit one can make is reasonable. Units in my area have used this company for years and the company has even been invited to Roundtable meetings to offer samples and information on their products. Our council has just notified units that this company is no longer an"authorized fundraiser". The notice mentions that the company does not have permission to use the BSA brand or image. I have their literature and have looked at their website and I do not see the BSA brand or image used. Have other councils made similar decisions banning specific products from being sold for fundraiser

You can download them from the National website, they're under "Adult" then "Publications"

Does soliciting funds online (or any other way) comply with the BSA fundraising policy? Our troop considered doing this but we weren't sure it was OK to do.

Funny you should ask. I just finished looking at rosters from our troop from 1926 to 1944. Seems as though there were more boys in the troop then than there is now. Of course that was before rec. ball, after school activities and such. I think the boys were just happy to get away from the farm for a few hours. I don't know what BSA did to deal with the tough times but I know some of the rosters indicate that some boys didn't have uniforms. I also have my late uncles Cub Scout uniform from 1939 - 1940. It has no patches on it other than the CUBS BSA strip and a rank patch. I asked my mother why she thought there were no unit numbers or council patch on it. She said her parents probably couldn't afford them! So I guess everyone made due with what they had and did what they could afford to do. Local camping trips, homemade gear etc. If you look at the old handbooks it didn't take much in those days to outfit yourself.

Left overs from our outings go in the troop's pantry for use on the next trip. Any patrol can shop from the pantry, if it's on the shelf it's available, if it's in a patrol box (also stored in the pantry) it's taken. Perishables go in the fridge and can be marked by the patrol who intends to use it. We started doing this two years ago and it helps keep food costs within the patrol's budget and keeps food from going to waste or being sent home.

If a Scout needs to leave for sports/band then a parent needs to pick them up. I don't like it but I don't think there is a lot I can do about it. If someone had an answer to that please let me know. Better to have them there for half a weekend then none at all. They are asked to to return to help unload when we get back but they usually don't.

Of the three thru-hikers we met on the trail two of them said they were Eagle Scouts and one was still active in his troop.

SSScouter, That packframe is made by Sierra Pack Frame Co., San Luis Obispo, CA. It's made of curved slats of what looks like oak. Burned into it is "Philmont 1960 728A". This pack frame belonged to my uncle who went to Philmot that year as a leader. He was a Scout/Scouter for 61 years from the time he joined Cub Scouts in 1939 until his death in 2000. This article was posted on Whiteblaze.net. For those who haven't been to the site it's worth checking out. If you are planning an AT hike or would just like to learn more about it this is a good place to go. Lots of information on backpacking, some of which goes against established BSA wisdom (such as hiking in running shoes). Our troop camped with 3 southbound thru-hikers last October in Maryland. At least one of them, "Johnny" and his dog "Cash" has since completed the trail. These 3 had a great discussion with our scouts about thru-hiking and answered many questions.

Our District Advancement guy has been quoted as saying that no boy can show leadership unless he has done at least 300 to 400 hours. He also says he isn't adding to the requirements!

These Scouts averaged 17 miles a day carrying up to two weeks worth of food and supplies and using the 1930's equipment. I have an old wooden pack frame that went to Philmont in 1960, I can't imagine carrying that thing for 4 months!

These Scouts averaged 17 miles a day carrying up to two weeks worth of food and supplies and using the 1930's equipment. I have an old wooden pack frame that went to Philmont in 1960, I can't imagine carrying that thing for 4 months!

Picked this up on whiteblaze.net and thought I'd pass it on Appalachian Trailway News, November/December 1994 The Summer of 1936: A flickering memory recalls a thru-hike by Bronx Scouts In 1936, a year before the Appalachian Trail was completed as one continuos, unbroken footpath, six Boy Scouts from the New York City area followed the route from Maine to Georgia. It was a 121-day odyssey into manhood and its significance as perhaps the first thru-hike of the A.T. wasn't realized until recently by one of the participants. (Earl Shaffer is credited as the first person to thru-hike the Trail as a completed footpath. His solo hike was in 1948.) It was only in the last year that Max Gordon became aware that the Appalachian Trail Conference still existed. An ATC membership solicitation he received stirred fading memories. He responded by joining ATC and then searching through boxes of old photos and mementos. Slowly, he was able to weave together bits and pieces of the summer of '36 when he and five other teen-aged Scouts made their journey on the Appalachian Trail. The boys were members of Scout Troop 257 in the Bronx at a time when Harry T. (Pop) O'Grady, a leader in the area Scout council, suggested that a local veterans group sponsor an A.T. hike from Maine to Georgia. Mr. O'Grady "may have been some kind of entrepreneur ... Whenever there was a problem in Scouting, he was called in. He was a very persuasive person. He even went to my school principal and talked him into letting me out early enough in June to go on the hike. Pop always seemed to be there for us," recalls Mr. Gordon, whose father had died four months before he was born. The veterans, led by a Mr. Grabow, used their World War I bonuses to provide equipment and expenses for the trip, and they met the hikers at various points along the Trail to replenish their supplies. "One of the veterans had a truck, and it was our life-line," says Mr. Gordon. Since the support vehicle couldn't reach many parts of the Trail, the boys carried up to two weeks worth of provisions between visits. "We were poor kids. We couldn't have done it without them," he says. "My mother made my sleeping bag, and it wasn't fancy at all, no feathers, just a couple of blankets sewn together. I could pull part of it over my head to keep the dew off..., and we used ponchos when it rained. Most of the time we slept out in the open rather than in shelters." The boys had boots from L.L. Bean, and Mr. Gordon recalls that his soles finally wore out somewhere in North Carolina. Most of the boys were 16 or 17 years old. At 15, Mr. Gordon was the youngest and, because of his first-aid training, "was the doctor of the hike." He doesn't recall any serious medical problems along the way, and all six completed the hike together. The older boys charted the course (from maps provided by the veterans) and led the way. The fact that he walked fifth or sixth in line was a real blessing in Maine, Mr. Gordon recalls. "There was snow most of the way through Maine, and the older boys had a harder time because they were breaking trail. I just followed on their snow-packed tracks." It took two weeks for the boys to reach New Hampshire, and, after changing clothes and some gear, they started out again. They were a day late meeting their support truck in Adams, Mass., "but the men didn't seem to mind." The next section, south through New York, "was very enjoyable because we were in our own backyard." he says. The boys had often day-hiked in Harriman State Park. Pop O'Grady and the veterans met the boys at Bear Mountain Bridge and kept them there a day, to celebrate, rest and provide a photo opportunity. "I think Pop hoped to use our hike as some sort of promotion," Mr. Gordon recalls. The hike continued, but the memories are scant. Mr. Gordon remembers the scenery in Virginia's Shenandoah National Park "being the most impressive since Maine," but, other than that, the mid-Atlantic A.T. is a blur. All but three miles of the 2,054-mile Trail had been cleared and blazed as of 1936: a one-mile stretch between Davenport Gap and the Big Pigeon River in Tennessee and a two-mile link between Spaulding and Sugarloaf mountains in Maine. The Maine section was the last to be completed, and the Trail was opened as an unbroken footpath on August 14, 1937. "There were times we didn't know if we were on the Trail, and we had to feel our way," Mr. Gordon recalls. "It is difficult to remember many details so many years ago," he says. He barely remembers the southern end of the hike. He fingers a Scottish military pin, given to him by a man he met while hiking in the Carolinas - "His name was Mr. James McQueen and his daughter, Flora, was with him. Do you think I could ever find him?" The pin remains his only keepsake of the hike. Mr. Gordon recalls the easy climb without a backpack up Mt. Oglethorpe, Ga. (the southern terminus until 1955). The truck was waiting for the boys to complete the Trail and take them to Atlanta before heading home. Two of the boys "had been ready to quit at the start because of the snow and drifts." but they stuck it our. Over all, it had been a pleasant summer, and, except for minor arguments that occasionally erupted among the boys, the most disagreeable time was "hiking in really hot weather." Mr. Gordon recalls. "At the time, we really didn't know what a feat this had been." Mr. Gordon says. But, back in school and Scouting, he says the boys found they had to live up to newly acquired reputations. His older brother, Mandel, recently recalled that his sibling had lacked the self-confidence needed to be a leader. But, "after the hike, that fear seemed to have vanished," Max Gordon remembers. "Other boys and girls turned to me for leadership. The hike had given me 'status', and it was respected by the teachers. It was a very good feeling." Slowly and one by one, as the boys graduated, they drifted apart. Many, like Mr. Gordon, were active in different branches of the service during World War II. Mr. Gordon recalls that one boy in the group, Louis Zisk, was a Marine who was killed during the was. Another in the group, Seymour Dorfman, who died only a couple of years ago, "was my best friend for 42 years," he adds. Mr. Dorfman served in the Army in North Africa and Italy during World War II. Mr. Gordon can recall only a nickname or two about the other three boys, and he suspects that he many be the only one left. If Pop O'Grady planned to turn the hike into a publicity campaign in behalf of Scouting, it never materialized, Mr. Gordon says. He had heard, long ago, that Mr. O'Grady left Scouting during the was and had become head of a Catholic youth organization of the West Coast. As for Mr. Gordon, now 73 and in good health, he has so far served 60 years with the Boy Scouts and has received some of the organization's highest honors, including the Wood Badge (Jan. 18, 1958) and the Silver Beaver (June 5, 1961). He was personally cited by Presidents Dwight D. Eisenhower and John F. Kennedy. In May 1960, he was the first Scout in the nation to receive the Shofar Award from the Jewish Committee on Scouting. He worked at the Bronx Botanical Gardens and the Brooklyn Navy Yard before joining the Navy and serving with the Seabees in the Pacific during the war. Afterward, he settled back into life in the Bronx neighborhood of his bride, Lilian. He recalls being home only two weekends the first year he was a Scout leader. Most of the time, the Scouts were out on day and weekend hikes. Often he was back on the A.T. Later, when he was in his 30s, his Explorer Troop challenged him to a 72-mile A.T. hike southward from Kent, Conn. Fourteen started the marathon hike, and, 18 hours later, Mr. Gordon and three Scouts completed the trek. He says he'll never forget how much his muscles tightened up after sitting briefly in a car following that hike. When he first started dating his wife-to-be, he recalls "wanting to make sure she could walk. So we took a five-mile hike on the A.T., and she did pretty well, considering she was wearing high heels." A seasonal Christmas-time job with the post office turned into a career. Mr. Gordon was a clerk for 18 years in New York City and the vicinity, after which time he began earning bonuses for suggestions that worked. As a result, he was promoted so much that, by the time he retired at age 57, he was a postal operations analyst responsible for all offices from Maine to northern New Jersey and including the West Indies. Mr. Gordon had built a chalet in Dingmans Ferry, Pa., and the couple retired there briefly before moving to northcentral Florida. In the 15 years they've been in Beverly Hills, Fla., Mr. Gordon has been involved with the volunteer fire department and several fraternal organizations and spent nine year putting records together for the local (Citrus County) historical society. And, he says, he has never stopped hiking. One of the most vivid memories he has taken with him for the past 58 years is the day the Scouts were at Franconia Notch in New Hampshire. "We about froze to death. It was nine degrees that morning," Mr. Gordon recalls. "In the city, you don't get the mist you get in the woods. But, that morning, the woods felt like another world. Then, the overpowering sensation of reaching up on those tall mountains, reaching up as if a man could put his hand out and touch -- I don't know, it's a real sense of religion you never forget as long as you live." The following American (Sioux) Indian prayer is a tribute to that experience, Mr. Gordon feels. He learned it in Scouting, and for years it's been part of his life. He handily pronounces the Lakota words: "Wakonda They Thu Wapathin A To-Hey." Drawing back on his A.T. experience as a 15-year-old boy who was "just having a good time," he offers a literal translation --"Great Spirit, a needy one stands before thee; I who speak am he." The message, for Mr. Gordon, is not in the English interpretation, but from the feeling of the Lakota words.

I know we have some lawyers out there who can answer this question. When is an individual required by law to submit their SS#?

IMO, the Scoutmaster interprets the requirements and enforces them as he sees fit. Hopefully it is keeping with what was intended by BSA. To me "in the community" includes the campsite we are at even if it's not near where we live. Another SM might interpret it differently though. I tend to look at requirements in a practical way, other have a more strict interpretation.

"An active youth member is one who, with the approval of a parent or guardian if necessary, becomes a member of a unit; obligates himself or herself to attend the meetings regularly; fulfills a member's obligation to the unit: subscribes to the Scout Oath or the code of his or her respective program; and participates in an appropriate program based on a member's age, as promulgated from time to time by the Boy Scouts of America.- Boy Scouts of America Rules & Regulations, Article VII" Where can I get a copy of these rules?

We just lowered our dues from $100 to $50 in order to be competitive with other troops in our area, most seem to charge $50. We will need to make up the difference with fundraising. Dues pay for patches, handbook, patrol equipment, Boys Life, and registration. No charge for adult registration. It's pay as you go on trips.

Any units out there that own thier own building?