Eagle707

Again, BadenP, this is an elective award: it is AN opportunity but is by no stretch of the imagination the ONLY opportunity the BSA offers. Nobody is advocating for a shift away from the outdoor programs of the BSA. We're just excited that we have another opportunity for the Scouts we serve. We still have our emphasis on Scoutcraft (or at least we do in the councils I have served) and introducing this just broadens our horizons. I know several math/science types who are avid outdoorsmen. Two of the best Scouts I have worked with made it their state's Science Olympiad championship and are also proud Scouts and Arrowmen (while closing in on Eagle). I think that these attempts to create rifts between the "science" and "Scouting" crowds are artificial and, candidly, more of a threat to a solid BSA program than these awards could pose. These claims have no base and I can give you a pretty solid example: I have a friend who is an avid outdoorsman and pursuing a Ph.D in theoretical physics. I'm sure he would be the first person to tell you that there doesn't need to be a disconnect between an interest in science and an interest in the outdoors. I understand that you've worked for the CSE and doubt that he is the best person for the BSA. However, not all of us have had that privilege and, thus, we are stuck with judging the program on its merits and not based on our assumptions about Bob Mazzuca's ulterior motives. You brought up very similar arguments on the thread about the Math/Science Bronze Award (which, I'm assuming, this replaces). I don't know why you associate math and science with video games and computers. In fact, claims like those seem to only support the need for STEM education and opportunities: there is obviously a disconnect between what STEM stands for and what it is perceived as in the Scouting community. By the way: Pioneering, while sold as Scoutcraft, is just another form of engineering.(This message has been edited by Eagle707)

I'm not sure that this represents a sizable step away from the principles of the BSA. We are creating a recognition for earning specific merit badges that already exist. Nobody is clamoring to remove the World Conservation Award or the Hornaday Awards and, yet, those are undeniably focused on science and involve earning science-related merit badges. If encouraging Scouts to earn science-focused merit badges will bring the downfall of the BSA then we would have closed our doors a long time ago. This award simply recognizes Scouts who choose to collect merit badges in a certain area. If a Life Scout requested a Scoutmaster conference, and his elective merit badges were Chemistry, Computers, Electricity, Engineering, Geology, Energy, Astronomy, Robotics ,and Space Exploration, would you reject him on the basis that he is "out of touch with Scouting?" I don't think so. This STEM-NOVA project is designed to be an award, not a rank. If we abolished rank advancement in favor of STEM-NOVA then we would have cause for alarm but, as it stands, I think we should welcome it. And incidentally... How many leaders would be complaining about this if they got a square knot in addition to the medal?

We'd probably become "Scouting USA" or something similar.

SeattlePioneer: As a former member of T'Kope Kwiskwis (the Chief Seattle Council's lodge), I would highly recommend that you rejoin the OA. T'Kope is a very active lodge and they offer a variety of opportunities for adults and youth in the greater Seattle area. You'd also know who to contact when you are trying to get an OA team for your pack's AoL crossovers. Also, as far as the flap and insignia go: it's a good talking point with Scouts because they are always interested in badges. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk about joining the lodge. They would love to have another member (or even recruit you as a Chapter Adviser! ).

Desertrat is correct. However, I want to build off one of his points: isn't circumventing the insignia guide part of that "little pride in the uniform" that he was lamenting? I'm not a uniform policeman, nor do I aspire to be. However, I take care to wear my uniform correctly when representing my district. We are supposed to set examples for Scouts to emulate (and we should reward them through uniform inspections). How do we explain to Scouts that a certain pin carries enough weight to make you an exception to the rules? Besides, we already have mentor recognition on our uniforms: those round patches that say things like "Scoutmaster," "Coach," and "Advisor."

Congratulations to him! The entire Scouting community should be proud of him and his fellow nominees! Incidentally, all four nominees were Boy Scouts.(This message has been edited by Eagle707)

Congratulations to thriftyscout! I'm with acco40 on this one. What is the rationale for following some parts of the IG while ignoring others? What example are we setting when we ignore the rules to show off a recognition? To me, it looks like we're suggesting that Eagle Scout mentors are allowed to bend the rules. Parent pins (and the like) should stay off the uniform: an Eagle parent/mentor pin is no more permissible on the uniform than a Tenderfoot parent pin.

There were mistakes all around at this meeting. The leaders were out-of-line in how they handled the situation: this reaction was over-the-top and was rude to the Arrowmen conducting the election. However, their point was valid: the Scouts were mistaken in conducting an OA election without a full uniform. The OA covers this in the Guide for Officers and Advisers: "The lodge, through the unit elections committee, should work with the troop/team leader in establishing the actual time and place to conduct the election. The Order should be represented by a two- or three-member team from the lodge or chapter unit elections committee. All election team members must be trained and in proper uniform during the election." There is only one "proper" BSA uniform so, for lodge functions, I echo the others who suggest having the Scouts check eBay or just purchase a pair of Scout shorts. Shorts are cheaper than pants and, if they wear knee socks with their shorts, they'll be warm no matter what.

BDPT- I think the best way to get an answer would be to PM the person who started the thread. The rest of us can only guess. However, now that I read this more closely, the answer is to forget about it. Your female patrol member should receive the same beads that her male counterparts do. I thought this was for spousal recognition but apparently it is for someone who has completed her ticket. In that case, she deserves the same beads as everyone else in her patrol: the ACTUAL Wood Badge.

I think the idea is that these gold beads are "spousal recognition," much like we have "parent's pins" for Scout parents. As long as the spouse doesn't wear the gold beads with a uniform, I don't see a lot of harm being done here: if it isn't worn on a uniform, it isn't subject to a uniform standard. For the record, parent pins and Eagle mentor pins don't belong on the uniform either (nor do they give a false impression that the parent has completed the ranks). If these "beads" are kept to civilian wear only then, theoretically, they shouldn't be subject to the rules regarding possession of rank/training emblems. I'm not a lawyer, though, so this is just my interpretation of the situation.

Here's what it boils down to: would their conversation still be disruptive if they were speaking in English (are they distracting the boys from activities, etc)? If not, then your parents shouldn't worry about it. Your CM also should NOT under any circumstances consider splitting the pack. If these few parents continue to raise objections about the Polish-speaking mothers then they need to be told "we are an inclusive pack and, if this bothers you, you may be better off finding a new pack for your son." As a Scouter who speaks English, Finnish, and Japanese, I think it is offensive to even suggest that someone's choice of language is disruptive in and of itself. If conversations are occurring at proper times, then the only "disruption" a foreign language can create is curiosity and, as has been mentioned previously, that is exactly why we offer the Language and Culture belt loop. In fact, given the requirements of the belt loop, why not devote a den meeting to earning it? Let the two Polish mothers go over the requirements with the Scouts. It's an olive branch to the parents (as an apology for the harassment they've dealt with) and a great learning opportunity for the Scouts in your den. Final note (with regards to my choice of words): If they are being bothered for their choice of language, and not for being disruptive, then they ARE being harassed.

Also, you can either hang them from gold string or buy a really cheap gold-coloured chain from a local retailer.

I would recommend a wicking layer (not cotton but a synthetic or bamboo). I went to two jamborees this summer with a wicking layer under my uniform and came out pretty well. One caution about nylon: it absorbs odor REALLY well so, if you sweat as much as you say you do, I would stick with the cotton/poly shirts for prolonged camping.

I would present it to him at a pack meeting, no question.

Yep. That was on the old thread too.

In response to the site that Eagle92 mentioned, I believe it may be this one from the Scouts-L archive: http://listserv.tcu.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=scouts-l;pNXCNg;19901023034754-0400 Also, from the 2004 edition of the OA Handbook: "Arrowmen unable to continue active service while in college may continue their registration in the Boy Scouts of America by joining the College Scouter Reserve. This will permit them to maintain their membership an an Order of the Arrow lodge. Applications are available through the local council service center." Also, my registration records list my registration in the College Scouter Reserve as "Position 92/________District: General" That last one's just anecdotal evidence but the position code that goes with it matches the CSR's 92.

My apologies... I should have known better. I did appreciate the actual sentiment of your post though.

Not in the slightest. I'm content with my Eagle, AoL, and religious award knots. I just keep hearing it brought up (and I've lived in a few councils) so I thought I'd pose it here. I've also got several things that don't have corresponding knots and I don't shoehorn them onto my uniform because it wouldn't be correct uniforming. So no, this has nothing to do with decorating my uniform. What's with the "Panamanian General" epithet by the way? Since when is "general" an insult? Or "Panamanian" for that matter? Panamanians are just as loyal of Scouts as we are: http://www.scoutspanama.org/

Any thoughts on a knot for First Class? I've heard it kicked around in several councils so I wanted to put it up here for discussion.(This message has been edited by Eagle707)

I think the caveat about "current Arrowmen" may be a mistake but check with your council registrar to be sure.

It isn't a philosophical question: if he can accumulate 6 months of tenure and complete the requirements, he has earned the award. Hypothetical, yes. Philosophical questions generally mean that adults are interpreting the BSA's explicit requirements. If the BSA wanted Webelos to earn AoL in nine months, the requirements would state "be active for six months since completing your Webelos badge." Because the requirements don't say this, the six months is all that matters.

92: Thanks for the clarification. I had been told they were similar but apparently I was misinformed. Good to know.

Eagle92 beat me to it but I'll put in my comments anyway: -College Scouter Reserve and Scouter Reserve are district positions that are registered at the council level (I don't know why). -There are reports all over the internet about the College Scouter Reserve's demise but they are incorrect. I'm registered as a College Scouter. -There is also a "District At-Large" position which is different in name but not in function. -Finally, according to the National OA site, "Scout Alumnus" is still a registration category. http://www.oa-bsa.org/resources/lodge/bestpractices/registrationoptions.pdf(This message has been edited by Eagle707)

Eagle92 beat me to it but I'll put in my comments anyway: -College Scouter Reserve and Scouter Reserve are district positions that are registered at the council level (I don't know why). -There are reports all over the internet about the College Scouter Reserve's demise (even on Mike Walton's page) but they are incorrect. I'm registered as a College Scouter. -There is also a "District At-Large" position which is different in name but not in function.

Sorry for the confusion. I did not mean to advocate keeping him isolated. I omitted my idea on the troop: absolutely continue visiting the troop and participating in activities as a guest. I suggested registering as a Lone Scout strictly for advancement purposes and earning his Arrow of Light. Since he can't earn Boy Scout awards, Lone Scouting gives him the opportunity to earn awards "legitimately" while participating with his future troop and getting a Scouting experience.