Eagle5

Hi again all, Bob, Thanks for your last flurry of comments. I, too, questioned why my troop even has by-laws. My experience in non-scouting areas is that trying to create additional bureacracy is usually counter-productive & red-tapish. A little research indicates that the BSA does not condone by-laws, except in Venterer Crews...I'll be pushing to scrap ours entirely. I have to side with Bob in saying that ASMs and the SM ultimately have to determine (scout-by-scout) what active means. Everyone who has responded to this thread acknowledges the importance of not cookie-cutting scouts/program. Admittedly, by-laws do this. Further, having by-laws assumes that we can not or will not trust our Scoutmasters to be the role model we elected them to be, and have the integrity to do the right thing. boleta may disagree with this given her/his experience but the particulars of each event are usually telling. I know that if I were in a unit with a Scoutmaster that I thought was a tyrant, morally bankrupt, unfair, etc..., I'd pack up and leave that unit, or I'd approach the parent committee to ask for a replacement. Perhaps my false assumption is that the Troop Scoutmaster is the #1 Adult Icon? Am I in lala land?? I'm trying to teach my son to respect others, authority, values, etc... He would certainly be confused if his Scoutmaster was not reflecting Scouting Values. Yours in Scouting, Eagle5

Twocubdad & Eamonn, Thank You brothers. Your replies are what I feel in my heart about the 'Spirit' of Scouting. Your comments on providing quality program were also well-received. Thanks for your thoughtful input. I couldn't agree more. The Committee needs to get a reality check. Thanks for your coments and suggestions. Yours in Scouting, Eagle5

Bob, Nuts! You answered neither of my questions. I understood you're reply, and again agree with what you offer, but you still have not shared: 1. either how you do it in your troop (line in the sand or whatever your method is, OK [smile]), & 2. what you think the relationship should be between ASM/SM & Troop Committee. dluders is having a problem between himself and troop committee members that want to impose a non-BSA standard on dluders to enforce with his scouts as the SM. I feel for dluders, because I'm challenged with similar friction in my troop--just on a different matter. What/How would you suggest as the best relationshipapproach between the SM and the troop committee on this advancement topic? I welcome anyone else's thoughts on how to create a win-win scenario for both troop entities to maintain troop harmony. Two or more heads are usually better than one. Any suggestions?? Yours in Scouting, Eagle5

Bob, I agree with both you and Hunt, but I'm looking for something tangible. Please share what the stndard is in your Troop. I absolutely agreed with you when you say there is a huge difference, but where have you established your cut line, or line in the sand [smile]. Also, talk to me about how you view the interaction and lines of responsibility, as far as advancement is concerned, between the ASMs/SM and the troop committee. Would appreciate your viewpoint AND/OR any others, for that matter. Yours in Scouting, Eagle5

Fellow Scouters, Concur with most of you. Would like to offer my thoughts to all and especially dluders. -Scoutmaster Authority. Watch the line between troop committee advice and Scoutmaster responsibility. I believe the Scoutmaster should have the latitude to decide whether to kill, accept, or use this 50% mark as a benchmark as one of you suggested. Would be a shame to me if the Scoutmaster was forced to live with a policy he didn't believe in in his heart--one that violates his personal spirit of Scouting. -Carrot or Stick? I appreciate the comments about the utility of such a policy. Scouting values are values based around character, integrity, trust, judgement, etc... There must be better ways (carrot) to encourage better/more active involvement. The word attendance scares me, and reminds me of small men managing the letter of the law. Scouting is anything but this, I HOPE! A hard and fast 50% policy seems too much like a stick. Any pop psychologist can tell you that you get more flies with honey. BSA national guidelines aside, individual achievements, learning, growth, and mentorship must, yes MUST, be tailored to each boy as many of you articulated. Correct is the notion of "Just Say NO to Cookie Cutter Scouting." -The Standard. BSA national guidance, in my humble opinion, leaves this aspect of advancement open to individual interpretation, hopefully grounded in an environment of situational awareness tailored to each boy. So where are the left and right hand limits so that dluders can at least hit the target on this issue? The suggestion of 50% as a Benchmark is the only practical suggestion I've heard. All comments are good, but this Scoutmaster has to get down to the business of leading his troop. My only additional recommendation here is to get every single adult/parent sponsor for every boy in the troop involved in a troop-wide vote. My experience has taught me that troop committee meetings are often attended by 'Paper Tigers'--men who are more comfortable with spreadsheets, statistics, and verbal discourse. These men can oftentimes be out of touch with the salient and dynamic issues of leading scouts to become men of character. Might prove worthwhile and powerful to solicit imput from every parent with of a scout in this troop. I do believe there is such a thing as a silent majority. -Annual PERSTEMPO. One of you hit the nail on the head by highlighting that the reality of Scouting involvement is seasonal, at best. Few boys appply themselves to Scouting in a steady/consistent fashion--to think they do, or see them as little robotic performing artists is foley, at best. My point here is who knows whether a Scout deserves advancement or not? I hope that the ASM for that boy's patrol and the Scoutmaster are where the rubber meets the road. I'd suggest that, IF NOT, you might just have a 'Paper Tiger' troop. Yours in Scouting, Eagle5