eagle-pete

Question - Should you use the non-BSA kits for local pack Pinewood Derby races, or is that taboo? Eagle Pete

How true it is, John Darn foxes... They'd be late to their own funeral! Anyone up for a Fox Hunt? Eagle Pete

I used to be an Eagle and a good ole' Eagle too but now I'm finished Eagling I don't know what to do I'm growing old and feeble and I can Eagle no more So I'm going to work my ticket if I can Back to Gilwell, Happy Land! I'm going to work my ticket if I can Eagle Pete

Just incase... Here they are - in order Beaver, Bobwhite, Eagle, Fox, Owl, Bear, Buffalo, Antelope Carry on... Eagle Pete

~On The Other Side of the Tracks~ I grew up in the Big City - L.A. Calif. My dad didn't have the outdoor skills. His idea of an outing in the woods was an R.V. with plumbing and electrical hookups. Consequently, any outdoor skills I have learned, I got in Scouting - but much later in life. I have the fortune of working with an excellent Scout leader who does have those skills. He is teaching them to me. For someone like me, now an adult, those skills are only picked up as occasion arises on the few campouts or troop meetings when we go over them. I am greatful to be able to learn them now, but many years (and outings) have gone by where I have been outdoor handicapped. As an example of my inept skills... some years ago I was on a family outing. We setup camp and had a tarp setup over the eating area of the camp. A storm rolled in and it started to rain. It was coming down pretty hard and the wind was blowing. One of the lines broke on the tarp which was holding down one of the corners. The piece on the rope broke which had the metal slide - you know, those things which work like a taut-line. I went over to repair it. I could not find the metal thing, and so the only way to fix it was to tie a true taut-line and secure the corner of the tarp. I actually had to run and get my Boy Scout Handbook and look up how to tie the dang thing. Fortunately I brought mine along. It took a few minutes but we got it tied down. This experience taught me how valuable those basic skills really are and how much I really needed to learn. I can say this, I'll never forget how to tie a taut-line. I think most Scout Leaders are willing to learn the skills, but they need a mentor. It's one thing to sit with the boys in a comfortable, dry building and go through knot tying. It's quite another to be in need of those skills while out in a storm with your family. A few outings in the great outdoors with a well trained leader would be invaluable for a new Scout Leader. It has sure helped me out. Eagle Pete

Singing is no problem for me... I do have a walking stick, engraved with my name, an eagle, and my course number. The only problem I have is I don't like to take it very many places for fear it might get damaged. Eagle Pete

Course hats? Banquets? Dinners? Wow! I'm getting excited now! Eagle Pete

Thank you emb021 That clears alot of the confusion up. I guess I won't have to buy a new shirt after all. Eagle Pete

Not me

This falls under the category of "What is best for the adult(s) vs. What is best for the boy". It never ceases to amaze me how both parents and leaders can mix this principle up in so many ways. The main issue here, and the main question, is we doing what is best for the boy? Years ago I had a parent with a similar problem. As the Cubmaster, I was obligated (yes, that's right - obligated) to refuse the parent the "favor" of granting the Arrow of Light to their son who did not earn it. In this case it was the father. He actually asked if I could let the rules slide so his son could get this award. He knew the rules, but he was asking that I just put them aside for his son. The Arrow of Light is a big deal for a boy. It should be presented with a ceremony which is in proportion to the significance of the award. A boy should remember this for many years and will wear the award all through Boy Scouts. But it is more than just the ceremony and all the time and effort he put into it. It is a pattern he will follow for the rest of the time he is in Scouting: learn the requirements, do the work, earn the reward. The concepts and principles of earning the award will follow him into Boy Scouts, to Eagle and beyond. The tragedy is when we as leaders or parents fail the boy in teaching him this principle. As I told the father of the boy who had not earned his Arrow of Light, don't rob the boy of the experience of earning the award. Let him learn for himself what it means to earn something. That experience will be much more valuable than the patch he wears. When we put a patch on a boy's shirt that was earned and worked for, he is reminded every time he puts on his uniform what that meant. Isnt that why we have these awards anyway? Scouting is all about the boy not our own selfish interests. It is about service to the boys, not about using it as a social status to show off our Eagle Scout, at the expense of a boys life experience. Eagle Pete

Eamonn I believe what you pointed out is still being practiced. I will be confirming this soon, as I will be on staff in 2007, but I believe that the Guide still states what you have. I do not fully understand the rational behind it, except that the staff should not parade their accomplishments or advertise their experiences during the course. Are there other reasons you can share for this guideline? Eagle Pete(This message has been edited by eagle-pete)

Ok I just looked thru some old Wood Badge pictures when I went through... brings back some very nice memories... I do see beads on the staff! I never really paid attention I guess. Or I just plain forgot. Anyway, thanks for pointing that out to me.. Yet another eye opener! Eagle Pete(This message has been edited by eagle-pete)

SueM Well that's good to know. Thanks for the info. When was that change made? Did they start this with WB for the 21st Century or more recent? Eagle Pete(This message has been edited by eagle-pete)

wmjivey If you are talking about the patrol patches which are worn by the boys of a patrol which signifies the symbol of their patrol they have chosen, then I agree... those patrol patches are not intended for Wood Badge patrols. They are for the boys to use as their patrol. Wood Badge is different in that you are placed in a special patrol which is used as a training tool to learn, among other things, the patrol method. I collect, like many Wood Badgers do, my critters (eagles). I have a part of a wall at my house dedicated to the eagle patrol. I don't wear anything on the uniform that signifies this. There are no official insignia for Wood Badge patrols to be worn on the uniform. When you earn your beads you will wear them and they will become part of your uniform. You won't need any other emblem that symbolizes Wood Badge (of course, the full regalia as the same effect). You will be asked from time to time what patrol you are a member of. PROUDLY exclaim you are an eagle! That's all you will ever need to do. As I read in a Farside comic once... Birds of prey know they're cool. Eagle Pete

Oh...wmjivey, WELCOME TO THE EAGLE PATROL! Eagle Pete

Correct me if I am wrong, fellow staffers! My understanding is that the Wood Badge staff removes all insignia except standard uniform insignia (American flag, World Crest, and council patch). Any earned badges, badges of office, neckerchief and neckwear (including Wood Badge beads) should be removed. Eagle Pete

scoutmom111 I would agree. If you are at a flag ceremony, any headdresses not part of a military, police, fire, or BSA uniform should be removed during the ceremony. This would comply with the U.S. Code. I apologize, but I may have interpreted your post wrong. I thought you did have a BSA uniform with a BSA hat at your Wood Badge course. If I misunderstood, I apologize. I find it strange that your CD was so adamant about everyone wearing hats during the ceremony, especially those without official BSA hats. Also, the fact that your CD would not listen seems strange. I mean, the listening skill is an integral part of the Wood Badge course and syllabus. Were you a participant at that course or were you on staff (i.e., was the CD reprimanding the staff or participants)? In either case, the CD might have done better to fully explain their intentions for the headdress requirement for flag ceremonies. It is important to do your best to achieve a "win-win" situation. It doesn't sound like that was achieved. Too bad. The CD won't ever get another chance to "Win All You Can", if you know what I mean. What a tragedy... to end Wood Badge like that... Sad. Eagle Pete(This message has been edited by eagle-pete)

The only references to headdress in Title 4 of the U.S. Code refers to those NOT in uniform (see section 9). The headdresses should be removed. As far as those in uniform it does not specify. You may recall seeing a military flag ceremony. If you notice, those in uniform do not remove their headdresses, as it is part of the uniform and should not be removed. Eagle Pete

Eamonn I understand. I was just trying to draw a parallel to what you were describing with Powder Horn. It just seems funny that there are those who feel a need to travel long distances to find trainings when often they can be found close by. However, I see baden's dilemma and I can sympathize. It's difficult when there are fewer courses being held. I guess I am just spoiled - living in a council with 8 different Wood Badge courses scheduled for 2007. You can't swing a cat without hitting a Wood Badge course around here. Eagle Pete

I've seen a similar phenomenon occur in Wood Badge. Some travel for hundreds of miles to attend a course. Now there may be good reason for this. Maybe there are no courses being held close by. They may be going to a far away course because they happen to know the CD or a friend is taking that course and they want to go through the course together. However, I have met some folks who came to a course from out of state just because they heard about the course. They didn't know anyone in that course. They may have heard that a particular council holds exceptional Wood Badge courses. But this is funny (strange) because those folks came from an area of Colorado which I have lived in and known the council they came from. I can tell you they put on very good courses in those councils. These folks would have saved a great deal of money staying home. I can see the justification for traveling to Gilwell in England, or attending Philmont but if there is a quality course being held close to home, I don't see the point of traveling hundreds of miles to go to a course. Eagle Pete

Excellent example, SSScout And, may I add, this also looks like a perfect project for a diversity ticket item! Eagle Pete

Vicki My apologies. I did not intend to infer that you were ignorant of proper flag etiquette. I posted the links for the benefit of anyone who may want to use them as their resource. It just seems to come up quite often, mostly in Cub Scouts where leaders are attempting introduce flag ceremonies to the younger boys and want to perform a proper ceremony. My personal interpretation of U.S. Code Title 4 in regards to conducting flag ceremonies is the ceremony should be done in a dignified, respectful manner, and should conform to any of the rules outlined in Title 4. As long as this is adhered to, the ceremony is acceptable. I have seen and participated in many, many flag ceremonies. Some have been better than others. But as long as they are dignified ceremonies they are acceptable. I have even stopped a ceremony we were performing when I was a Cubmaster during its presentation when I felt the boys were goofing off and not showing proper respect. There are many differing opinions about how a flag ceremony is to be performed. But all of them, when showing proper respect for the colors, and following the U.S. Code for flag presentation, are perfectly acceptable. Some of my personal preferences are (1) I expect any youth or adult who wishes to perform the ceremony to be in uniform. (2) I expect the audience to be as quiet as possible during the ceremony. (3) If multiple flags are used in the ceremony, and the flag bearers come to the front of the audience from different directions, causing the flags to cross, I have the American flag cross in front (toward the audience) of other flags. (4) I have the pledge repeated while the flag bearers are still holding the flags (before posting), and therefore, the bearers do not salute. (5) I normally have the American flag posted first, before other flags. These are just some of my preferences, and none of them violate Title 4 of the U.S. Code. Perhaps the gentleman at your camp might object to how I conduct a flag ceremony, but unless he could show that his objections are directly in violation of the Code, I do not see how he can justify them. It sounds more like he may have been trying to "raise a stink" and in an attempt to validate his objections he made some rather irrational accusations. He may also have had his own agenda, perhaps a war vet trying to demonstrate his loyalty to his country or something, I don't really know. In any case, I believe you did the right thing, and I do not believe you did anything which dishonored the American flag or your country. Eagle Pete(This message has been edited by eagle-pete)

It continues to amaze me how many Scout Leaders don't know where to find official BSA flag etiquette. The BSA follows U.S. Code Title 4 which outlines flag use for the United States Flag. U.S. Code Title 4 http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/title4/chapter1_.html BSA Flag Use Instructions http://www.scouting.org/media/flag/01.html Eagle Pete

Hey DanKroh My advise... go, have fun, enjoy... You're going to have a Great time! Eagle Pete

SueM This is off topic. I apologize. Feel free to split this off to another topic if necessary. Some thoughts to consider... Although you are correct that it doesn't hurt to ask, requesting a specific patrol change may not be in Dan's best interest. I am sure you are aware that much goes into the patrol assignments for participants. Considerations of personality balance, talents, scouting experience, etc., all come into play. I am a firm believer that patrol assignments are generally well planned and much foresight goes into these assignments (yes, there are exceptions). Even, in many cases, divine intervention comes into play. Making changes to the assignments based on a participants request may not be in their interest. The participant simply doesn't have enough information available to them to have this kind of foresight. Consider what experience the participant may miss out on by changing patrols. I am an eagle and would not have it any other way. I have treasured experiences with my patrol, both positive and negative, which all added to my Wood Badge experience. You could not offer me anything to change my patrol or give up any of the experiences I had. I would not request this if I were Dan, unless there was a very good reason to do so. He may sacrifice life-changing experiences by having his patrol changed. Eagle Pete