eagle-pete

ChuckSt8er First of all, you said you are looking to turn over CM position in 2 years. If that is the case, I would make certain to do a couple of things... 1) Hand pick your ACM. By "hand pick" I mean make a careful choice of someone with some Cub Scout leadership experience who fits the personality of a Cub Master and who loves to work with the boys. This will likely be an individual who is already one of your pack leaders. Make a recommendation to the Committee when you have made your choice. 2) Be upfront with the individual about your intentions to have them take over for you in 2 years' time. There should not be any surprises or misinterpretations of your plans for this person. They should accept the position knowing that they will be taking over as CM after 2 years so they can prepare. I would also lay out a very clear outline of what I expect of the new ACM. And don't forget training... make certain the new ACM becomes fully Trained, and get them to Wood Badge if at all possible before they take over as Cub Master. Best of luck Eagle Pete(This message has been edited by eagle-pete)

Well, nothing's going on over in the Wood Badge forum, so I thought I'd come over here and see what's happening... WOW! 63 posts on this topic alone! Man, do we know how to beat a dead horse! Well after reading the 60 other posts after Jeffrey H's original recommendations, I still agree with the way he would handle it. Jeffrey H wrote: "The wonderful world of boys! This kid appears to have a pattern of pulling a knife and here are my suggestions: 1) His Whittlin Chip card is taken away for at least six months. He has clearly violated the whittlin chip promise. 2) Suspend him from at least 4 den meetings. If hes serious about being a good Scout, hell be back. Keep in touch with him while he is away and let him and the parents know that you care about him. 3) Reinforce the Core Values of Cub Scouting with your Den or Pack concerning the bullying. If you are not doing it already, integrate the teaching of Core Values as a part of the overall Pack and Den programs. The boys dont have to memorize them, but they should have awareness that being a Cub Scout is a little more than just wearing the uniform. 4) Reward good behavior alongside the punishment phase. Encourage him to do better and that he is capable of making better choices. If the boy is unresponsive to the above, then I would recommend his removal from the Pack and barred from all future Pack activities and outings." JeffD I agree... There's far too much P.C. in this world as it is. The BSA has never apologized for it's policies and neither should we. Where there is a question of the safety of the boys, we cannot afford to worry about offending someone. Go ahead, offend them! But keep the boys safe! Beavah Yeah! I say we tie da boy down at pack meeting, hook up a car battery with some electrodes, and see how much juice he can handle, eh? Why wait for police to take action on this "criminal". Now that'd make for an entertaining pack meeting! OK, so I'm taking Beavah's comments a little to the extreme.. (really?) What ever happened to the concept of "publicly praising, privately criticizing"? We're talking about a TEN YEAR-OLD who needs to change some unacceptable behavior. Can't this be done through holding a meeting with the mother and pack leaders? Have specific steps to correct the behavior? I think I read that in a manual somewhere... I believe "It's Me" is on the right track. It appears they have established some appropriate action and recommendations and even some reinforcement of safe scouting for all dens. Our chief responsibility as youth leaders is safety in any situation. No, training does not cover every conceivable scenario that could possibly arise... We have a Guide to Safe Scouting for that purpose. I agree that some role-playing training is helpful, but only inasmuch as the concepts of safe scouting are emphasized so that they can be applied to any number of situations which can potentially place scouts or leaders in a dangerous situation. The other thing is parents. How much do we include them in the program? How much are they willing to be included? Where do we draw the line when it is time for the parents to step in? These are questions every pack needs to address. I feel the more we distance the leaders from the parents, the more difficult our jobs become. It is an enormous advantage when dealing with the youth to have the parents on our side. This situation with the boy pulling a knife is classic - mom is trying to defend the boy while looking after her own interests, and the leaders see a much different picture - never the twain shall meet. If there was already an established relationship of trust between mom and the leaders, how would this situation have been different? Would it have even gone to this extent at all? I don't know. I don't think anyone could say, but one thing is clear... We need the parents on our side! Finally, just a few things that come to mind... (1) Our first job is to keep the boys safe, (2) we don't publicly humiliate or punish, and (3) parents are our number one ally. Eagle Pete(This message has been edited by eagle-pete)

CORRECTION: In my posts regarding the Totin' Chip and Whittling Chip awards, I used incorrect terminology. The actual terms are, in fact, Totin' Chip and Whittling Chip. The Totin' Chip award is a Boy Scout award and the Whittling Chip is a Cub Scout award. Sorry for any confusion. Eagle Pete

How about a Den Doodle - There are instructions for Den Doodles on the internet, but basically, you make a stand about 4 feet tall that has a rack or block of wood at the top (this can be decorated). Screw eye hooks into the underside of the block on the top of the stand. Lable each hook with a Cub's name. Attach string or a strand of some sort to each hook. When the Cubs come to Den Meeting, bring their books, and are in uniform, string a bead on their strand on the Den Doodle for each item they do. I would either use different color beads or different style beads for each item. Some den leaders make custom beads for the doodle. Be creative. The boys love getting beads and love to compete to see how long they can get their strand full of beads. This is a great incentive/reward system. Eagle Pete(This message has been edited by eagle-pete)

Gonzo1 That is precisely why our council requires a boy to earn the Tote-n-Chit/Whittle-n-Chit for the privilege of carrying a knife. We don't want to penalize boys who demonstrate responsible, safe knife use by prohibiting the tool altogether, because we're afraid someone might get hurt. We want to instill responsible behavior with tools early on so that good habits are already in place when they are older and, frankly, able to do more harm with a weapon, which they will get ahold of, whether we've prohibited it or not. Folks, we could go round and round and round with this - debating the safety issues, policies, and rational of the use of knives in scouting. The bottom line here is there is a tried and tested Guide to Safe Scouting which has been in place for many years, and which we, as Scout Leaders, should know and follow. It is a GUIDE which we use to help maintain a safe environment for the boys. Let's move forward, using the safe principles and common sense we all know. Let's keep our eyes and ears open to safety issues, warning signs, and behaviors which can lead to tragedy, like those mentioned in this thread. Let's involve the parents of the boys and make them part of our team to ensure their boys have a quality program. Yours in Scouting Eagle Pete(This message has been edited by eagle-pete)

Ok Beavah, You got me on that one. I just called our council office. I was referred to the Guide to Safe Scouting where it states "Avoid large sheath knives. They are heavy and awkward to carry, and unnecessary for most camp chores except for cleaning fish." This does not prohibit the use of sheath knives, but it does appear to discourage their use (I wonder why?). Our local council has a policy of no knives over 4" in blade length and folding blades are strongly recommended. Also, the Scout Camps in our council have rules in place like - no sheath blades - period, boys age 11+ must have a Tote-n-Chit card on them to carry a knife, boys age 10 and younger must have a Tote-n-Chit card as well as a Whittle-n-Chit card to carry a knife (boys of this age must, of course, adhere to any additional requirements outlined on their Whittle-n-Chit card). So youre right. The general BSA policies do not prohibit boys from carrying sheath knives - but let's use common sense... Eagle Pete

GopherJudy Nowhere in the Guide to Safe Scouting does it state that Cub Scouts are not permitted to carry knives at a Cub Scout Day Camp. This may have been a policy for a specific council or at a specific day camp. I know of no such general BSA policy. If someone has a reference which contradicts this, please post it and correct me. I would be interested to know. Eagle Pete

The letter looks well written and covers the major issues which need to be addressed. See if you can get your Cub Scout Committee to vote on the recommendations as well. I only mention this so that you can assure unity in the pack leadership and also so you are fully backed by the Committee incase a parent wishes to challenge your policy. Great work! Let us know what the outcome is on this. Eagle Pete

This is horrifying... What I did notice is that the article specified this was a hunting knife and as we know, fixed blades, such as hunting knives are against BSA rules. Where were the leaders? Was a camp gear inspection done and how was it done? What was missed in the Guide to Safe Scouting? Eagle Pete

Hey SueM That sounds good. A couple questions Not sure how I would edit a PDF file. I don't have software capable of doing this. I can read them, but my understanding is you have to have something like Acrobat Writer or some other application which can edit a PDF. Also, I am not sure what you mean when you say that you cannot save to DVD from PowerPoint. Are you saying that you cannot go directly to a DVD from within the application? If so, you are probably correct, but I wouldn't do that anyway. Typically, I create my presentation, save the file, and then copy the .ppt file to a CD or DVD. I've never had any problem doing that. I will be using a laptop during staff development, which does have a CD burner. But I don't anticipate needing to burn my presentations to CD. I will need to print hard copies of the slides, however. At any rate, YES I would like to see what you have put together. Please send them to: eagle-pete@comcast.net Thanks a million Eagle Pete(This message has been edited by eagle-pete)

Forgive me, but this does not appear to be an issue of an uninterested scout - That is an entirely different problem and topic. Without much info to go on here, I am speculating that there may be some issues going on at home which need to be addressed. At any rate, a Tiger Partner would seem to be a prerequisite - regardless of the Tiger Program policy on whether to have the Tiger Partner attend every meeting. This boy needs close supervision at ALL meetings IMO. If this issue is not taken care of now, he will carry it into Cub Scouting and will BECOME the "uninterested" scout JeffD is referring to. Remember, he is ONLY 7 YEARS OLD. This can be corrected relatively easily now, where it will become significantly more difficult as the boy gets older. Have a meeting with the mother (not the boyfriend) and discuss what the expectations are in Tiger Cubs and how the Tiger Partner fits into the picture. Eagle Pete

I am not sure what mom means by "We're handling things on our end.", but you will need to set policy and do some CYA in the pack now, before things get out of hand. At this point I believe you need to get away from involving the kids. You are not going to get a straight answer from the boy with the knife. He's had too much time to think about what story he's going to tell next. You are now going to have to rely on whatever evidence you have. You may be able to piece together a relatively accurate picture by talking to witnesses individually and then comparing stories to see where the consistencies and inconsistencies are. Once you have this information gathered and documented, you should only be dealing with adults at that point. I would have a specific, well documented body of evidence and hold a meeting with all involved parents, Cub Leaders, and include your DE. I would also have, before the meeting, a plan of action to present to the parents and leaders which details the offence, consequences, and an outlined plan of what the boy will need to do in order to continue the privilege and responsibility of carrying a knife - as well as what the consequences will be if he cannot adhere to the rules of safety in Scouting. This should all be in writing and presented to the parents and leaders. No better time than this should we exercise the Scout Motto: Be Prepared! Eagle Pete

SueM Very generous offer. The only thing is I probably will be using PowerPoint (I know... it's a M$ product). I don't have a copy of Pagemaker. Also, I do want to hold off on starting to create presentations until I get a better idea of what our CD has in mind for them. He will be strictly adhering to the syllabus. I don't know if there are restrictions on how presentations should be setup. And just so you know, there have been some recent changes to the syllabus. As I get further into staff developments I can let you know what we are doing and how liberal our CD is with creating presentations. Thanks Eagle Pete

Ah.. I was just posting the LDS exception for the benefit of the many LDS units in Scouting. I find that many Cub Scout Leaders are confused about it. Eagle Pete

ScoutNut You are absolutely correct, with one small exception - LDS units have slightly more strict rules for overnight camping. "No Scout-sponsored overnight outings should be planned for boys under age 11." (source: LDS Scouting Handbook, page 4). The earliest age a boy can camp overnight in an LDS unit is 11 years old, which is a separate scout/age organization in an LDS unit. I get, surprisingly, alot of questions on this subject, so I thought I would post the info here. Eagle Pete

I fully agree with and would recommend the same steps outlined by Jeffrey H. No offense, nldscout, but although I understand the point you are trying to make, I am not sure jail is a good solution at this point. When I was a Cub Master, whenever there was a child with difficulties or even serious issues to be handled in the pack, my first and foremost responsibility was the safety of the boys in the pack. This is a serious safety issue, as you probably realize. Drastic measures need to be taken in a situation where the safety of the boys is in jeopardy. I believe the steps listed by Jeffrey H addresses the seriousness of the offense adequately. Eagle Pete

I see John (no pun intended) I, too, have some vision issues. Not so severe as yours, perhaps. I do plan to pay close attention to the PowerPoint slides and charts we use. It's amazing how using a slightly larger font can also make a difference. Thanks for the tip Eagle Pete

Yeah, I recall that what John refers to as 'breakouts' were our individual trainings we had with our TG. These were the flipchart presentations emb021 is referring to here. Good info, though on the PowerPoint backgrounds. I will be sure to pay close attention to these and make sure they are aesthetically pleasing. Thanks for the great tips and information. Eagle Pete

kb6jra Congratz! And make sure that you make the BEST of it! I know I will. What staff position will you serve on? Share your experience... I'd love to hear about it. Eagle Pete

Like I said on another post, I need a good salesman in our unit that will sell training (or at least the idea of training). I agree with Jeffrey. At least in our unit, we have 100% volunteers. No one is forced to do anything. Of course we keep to the Guide to Safe Scouting. That is about the only mandatory thing we stick with. In our unit training has always been, at the most, a strong recommendation. When we start putting mandates on those who have graciously volunteered their time to help the unit, we will start losing them. Tell me, does anyone have a real success story about when they forced a volunteer to get trained to do their job? I'd like to hear about that. I truly believe it is about presenting it in the right way. Don't you think you will get a better leader if they walk into a training course willingly, rather than being forced to take it? In order to accomplish this, our training programs and our Scouting programs must be packaged in such a way as to create a need for the new leaders to go to training. I don't have the sales skills to do this. I am looking for a good salesman who will be able to present it this way. Let me know if you find one. As a side note, I am a little worried about my ability to promote Wood Badge. I understand that I will need to do a bit of recruiting for Wood Badge for the course I will be on staff for next year. Anyone have any ideas for Wood Badge promotion? (I feel another thread starting...) Eagle Pete

I learned the "On Time" lesson very well some years ago as a Cubmaster. And, by the way, this applies to adults (Scouters and parents) and boys (Scouts) equally. We held Pack Meeting at 7:00 pm each month. At least, that was the official starting time. But I was a green Scout Leader and an even "greener" (is that a word?) Cubmaster. I thought that it was important that all the Cub Scouts and their parents be present so that I could start the meeting. I didnt want anyone to miss out on a opener or a flag ceremony. The meeting usually started 5 to 10 minutes late - consistently. This gradually turned into 10-15, and then 20, and 25 minutes late! It was getting to be ridiculous, to the point that parents and leaders showed up for Pack Meeting at all kinds of times, it didn't seem to matter what time we started. After a Committee meeting on the matter we concluded that the only way to correct the problem was to start on time - NO MATTER WHAT. What we discovered is that by starting on time, the parents and other leaders would follow our lead. If we started late, they would come late. If we started consistently on time, they would start coming on time. It was a strange phenomenon, but eventually everyone got the idea that Pack Meeting began at 7:00 pm on the dot and if you wanted to be there for an opening or flag ceremony or announcements, you had to be on time. We never had another problem with Pack Meeting lateness because, to be frank, it wasnt our problem. The meeting began at 7:00 and so we were on time any late comers simply missed out. One of the lessons I learned was that we, the Scout Leaders, have full control over the meeting times. Whether a meeting begins on time or late is completely up to us. When we relinquish this control is when things go wrong. This is a vital lesson the boys should learn early. It will be one of the most valuable lessons they will learn in their lives. Eagle Pete

Just change to red epaulets and cover your badge of office and no one will be the wiser. Eagle Pete

WOW That is fantastic! We have a new Cubmaster now, but I plan to submit this to the Cub Committee and see if we can get this going! What a great way to involve the parents and other adults in the pack as well! Thank you Eagle Pete

I completely agree, 1 Hour Also, I really like the Pinewood Derby Workshop Day. We have a few boys who come from broken homes who may or may not have a dad available and willing to help out with their cars. Their mother does her best, but she may not have the skills or the tools to help make a car for her son. I have seen cars come to the race with wheels and axles falling off and poor design. Even though we did some quick repairs on race day, these cars didn't stand a chance in the race. The workshop day is ideal for those boys because they can get the help they need and tools are made available. They would have a fair chance in the race, where they would not have otherwise. I wish we could have put something like that together for a few races. It would take some time and planning, but I think it would be well worth it. Eagle Pete

clydesdale115 You may want to consider personalizing the ceremony to your husband's interests. For example, my wife took many of the themes and elements from Wood Badge which I adopted and incorporated into Scouting and used those as the decor and theme of my ceremony. One of the themes of Wood Badge I really liked was "Leading To Make A Difference" so my wife made some banners with this written across it and posted it around the area where we held the ceremony. Also, be generous with gifts. Get a few tokens of appreciation to present to your husband at the ceremony. There should be time set aside during the ceremony for this. Some good ideas are critters, plaques with Wood Badge sayings (especially those he remembers), or clothing such as a Wood Badge shirt, jacket, or hat. My wife gave me a Wood Badge walking stick with an eagle carved in it and my name and course number inscribed on it. I still cherish it. Be somewhat creative and gear the ceremony toward his interests and those things he remembers most about his Wood Badge course and experience. You can't go wrong! Eagle Pete