eagle-pete

I agree madkins The BSA has diligently been working for several years puting together safe scouting policies and proceedures. I believe a review of all these policies should be included. Also, has everyone in your unit attended a Youth Protection course lately? If not, you may want to head one of those up. All the necessary information to conduct safe scouting activities is already available and easy to obtain at your Council Office. I would submit that several of these injuries and accidents would have been prevented by following these proceedures. Eagle-Pete

Currently, I am the Assistant Scout Leader for the 11 Year-old Scouts. Both myself and the Scout Leader are WB Trained in addition to many years of various other trainings. When I was Cubmaster last year, we had 90% of the cub leaders consistently trained in Cub Leader Basics. Several of them went to Wood Badge as well. I dont need to tell you what a benefit that has been to the leaders and boys. When I first came into the scouting program here at our church there was a great need for training. Most of the leaders had no training at all. The program was struggling along and the participation of the boys was dwindling. Now we are a Quality Unit and the program is a lot smoother. I cant say there arent challenges from time to time, but the challenges are much easier to deal with when leaders are trained to handle them. Scouting is largely a volunteer organization. There are very little requirements in the BSA for training and those requirements that are in place mostly pertain to safe scouting. Your chartered organization can make whatever training requirements they feel are necessary and appropriate. Also, because scouting is very incentive oriented, the adult training program is mainly an award/recognition based program. This is how I believe Adult Leader Recognition should be presented. Volunteers respond better to incentives rather than forced requirements for some reason. Present the benefits and advantages of training. You will get better trained leaders because it will be an investment for the volunteer rather than just a requirement they have to fulfill. Eagle-Pete

"Scouty"? That's a new word for me. It sure doesnt pass my spell checker. Evmori -- I have heard this so much, but in my opinion kids have not really changed. Their environment has changed a bit perhaps, but a kid is still a kid. That's why after 100 years - Scouting still works. I am really enjoying one of our Scouts. He just completed his Second Class requirements so he's still a new Scout for all intents and purposes. His enthusiasm is intriguing to watch. We just went on an overnight campout and he was so eager to do everything; build a fire, setup camp, go on a hike... He wants to do it all. Not once did I hear from him or any of those boys complaints of boredom or wishing they could go home to their X Box. (Of course, we did have a plan). Boys will always be boys. It's a matter of how you present an activity to them. This was a "boy-planned" outing. They all played a part in planning the activity, so they all had an invested interest. Time and time again I have heard leaders complain that kids today are only interested in their TV, computer, and video games. Yes, I agree that modern electronics are competing for our boys time and interest. I also agree that parents play a huge part in directing that interest, but their attention can (and should) be channeled. Eamonn commented that he doesn't "buy into the idea that due to the new style tents and high tech equipment that we don't need the Scoutcraft skills..." I completely agree. A Scout Camp is not just a place to send boys to release their testosterone and act like animals. Scout Camp plays a big part in the BSA Aims and Methods. We go to camp because, without realizing it, boys learn things. Baden-Powell said it best Scouting is not an abstruse or difficult science: rather it is a jolly game if you take it in the right light. In the same time it is educative, and (like Mercy) it is apt to benefit him that giveth as well as him that receives. BP- Aids to Scoutmastership (1920) Preface I always like to tell new leaders to trust the BSA program. It just works. Most of the difficulties I see leaders have with boys, whether they believe that the boys are just not getting it or have lost interest, is when they have strayed from the program and start doing it their way. And theres nothing wrong with old school, Eamonn! Eagle-Pete(This message has been edited by eagle-pete)

Meriam-Webster defines To volunteer 1 : proceeding from the will or from one's own choice or consent 2 : unconstrained by interference : SELF-DETERMINING 3 : done by design or intention : INTENTIONAL 4 : of, relating to, subject to, or regulated by the will 5 : having power of free choice 6 : provided or supported by voluntary action 7 : acting or done of one's own free will without valuable consideration or legal obligation I would submit that all the adult volunteer leaders chose just how involved they wish to become at any given time in the BSA. No one is under any obligation to "put your whole heart into it", or even to show up, for that matter. By the same token, I volunteer how much time and effort I am willing to expend to help leaders to be prepared and properly trained for the position for which they have volunteered. As the Cub Scout Training Coordinator for my district (a position for which I have volunteered) I basically setup, organize, coordinate, and run the Cub Leader Basic Trainings. I can put as much or as little effort into these trainings as I wish. It is a lot of hard work. We hold these trainings only twice a year because of the enormous efforts required by the training staff and others to provide a quality training. And yet, only a small percent of new volunteers actually attend these trainings. What makes it worthwhile is those few who do attend return to their units as an asset, no longer dragging down potentially high quality leaders. Let us, as trained leaders, start becoming the solution instead of the problem. This is what it means to take what we have learned from all our trainings, and ultimately from Wood Badge, and start giving back. What do I wear these beads for anyway? What are they really worth? Do I prance around, adorned with all my awards saying, "Look at me. I'm a woodbadger", or will I take what experience I have and impart that to a new leader? I can complain all day long about how leaders don't do their jobs, no one seems to care, and boys are getting cheated from having a quality program. ... But what have I personally done about it. Eagle-Pete

No beads, no records... No Wood Badge? I seem to recall a little saying that is intended for Eagle Scout candidates, but might apply here... "Your Eagle isn't complete until all paperwork is turned in" Someone dropped the ball completing your Wood Badge. Whether that was your Troup Guide, Course Director or yourself, I don't know. By the way, why is this coming up 20 years after your course? It seems like quite a long time to go without your beads. Hey... If there are no records.. just take the course over again. It'll be fun!!! Eagle-Pete

Indy First of all, you deserve congratulations for what you have accomplished. Wood Badge is not easy. My experience was fraught with challenges, many of which seemed tailored to my growth and development. I know of no one who has gone through the course and ticket process who felt that it was either too elementary, easy, or a waste of time. Virtually all participants that I have ever known have felt the opposite; that it was difficult, exhausting, and well worth their time. So I would classify your sentiments about Wood Badge as normal. As for ceremonies, I am sure you can appreciate the value of recognition. It is a basic Scouting method and certainly you do not need any lectures or instruction on it after the years of scouting service you have provided. The Wood Badge beading ceremonies which are so widely performed are essentially traditional. There is no requirement to perform them, just as an Eagle Court of Honor is not a requirement, but few would argue the value of a proper, dignified, and well planned ceremony. How, when, where, and even if you hold a beading ceremony is entirely up to you. I would like to say a word about Troup Guides. And this goes for any Wood Badge staff member. I have known a few Troup Guides; good ones, bad ones, well prepared and dedicated ones. They are just people. However, they have (or should have) received some specialized training during the period of time when the Wood Badge staff prepares the course they are about to deliver. Like anything in life, this falls under the you get what you put into it category. It is unfortunate, but that there seem to be, although not often, Wood Badge courses with staff members who have taken this extremely rare opportunity far too much for granted. We expect so much out of our Wood Badge staff, and rightly so. Wood Badge is the most advanced training program the BSA offers. However, the course really is only as good as the staff presenting it. This is precisely why staff membership is by invitation only and that the Course Director is solely responsible for selecting the very best people for his/her staff. Now it would be awesome if all participants were guaranteed (money back, ha ha) a well run, well prepared course with an absolutely top-notch staff, where all Troup Guides know their rolls and responsibilities, take them seriously, and do all they can to make sure every participant has the most positive Wood Badge experience possible. But we know this is not realistic. I would love to go through the course as a participant on your Wood Badge course that you will serve on. I can imagine that you will take all your experiences you had, good and bad, and apply them toward the course you are preparing for. What a great opportunity you have to do it right. You know, by personal experience, all the dos and donts of Wood Badge. You are definitely better prepared than the participant who skimmed through with ease, not having known the frustrations, hard work, and difficulties you experienced. Your course is going to be awesome, and I would bet you will be contributing significantly to the success of that course. Eagle-Pete(This message has been edited by eagle-pete)

ehcalum There is no restriction to wearing the complete regalia, only that the woggle is not to be worn with any other neckerchief than the Tartan Neckerchief. Beads may be worn alone on the Class A uniform and should be placed over any other awards or recognitions which are neck-worn. I wear my full regalia whenever I feel it is appropriate, especially when there is the potential for promoting Wood Badge to new or other leaders who have not had the opportunity or who are not aware of the training. You should not feel apprehensive about wearing the scarf, woggle, and beads. You should err on the side of promoting Wood Badge. Eagle-Pete(This message has been edited by eagle-pete)

My wife just got her beads. We're now a Wood Badge Family!!! She used to be a buffalo

What's with the double topic?? Anyway... I was considering the same thing when I was planning my ceremony. At the time I was a Cubmaster. A lot depends on your particular pack. How much adult recognition have you been presenting up to this time? How many boys/adults regularly attend your pack meetings? Are your boys accustomed to a ceremony which is less flashy than the typical pack meeting ceremonies? Are the parents/leaders of your pack relatively enthusiastic about the Scouting program in general? In my case I chose not to present a Wood Badge ceremony to my pack. I felt that neither the boys nor most of the adults would fully appreciate it. I did announce when and where the ceremony would be held and made a general invitation to the pack to attend so that anyone who truly was interested would make the effort to go to the ceremony. None showed... I was not surprised. Some of the Boy Scouts did attend and that was great. IMHO, there is alot of meaning in a Wood Badge ceremony that is not really well understood by boys ages 7-10. I am in favor of presenting adult recognition to the Cubs, but this is typically for recognizing volunteers who go the extra mile or parents who helped out.

I was considering the same thing when I was planning my ceremony. At the time I was a Cubmaster. Alot depends on your particular pack. How much adult recognition have you been presenting up to this time? How many boys/adults regularly attend your pack meetings? Are your boys acustome to a ceremony which is less flashy than the typical pack meeting ceremonies? Are the parents/leaders of your pack relatively enthusiastic about the Scouting program in general? In my case I chose not to present a Wood Badge ceremony to my pack. I felt that neither the boys nor most of the adults would fully appreciate it. I did announce when and where the ceremony would be held and made a general invitation to the pack to attend so that anyone who truely was interested would make the effort to go to the ceremony. None showed... I was not surprised. Some of the Boy Scouts did attend and that was great. IMHO, there is alot of meaning in a Wood Badge ceremony that is not really well understood by boys ages 7-10. I am in favor of presenting adult recognition to the Cubs, but this is typically for recognizing volunteers who go the extra mile or parents who helped out.

A little searching on the Internet led me to this page which apparently references the official BSA insignia guide regarding the Wood Badge Regalia: http://www.leaderlore.com/wear.html Pete

Card? Certificate? Woggle? Scarf? Beads? I think we ought to have a parade too! Kidding... What I came away with from the whole experience can't really be described, nor could any symbol accurately portray the experience, although I cherish my scarf, woggle, and beads dearly. All my other awards and recognitions pale in comparison. I understand the need for recognition, however, I think the point is what did I learn from Wood Badge, not necessarily what was handed to me. Just an eagle's opinion Pete(This message has been edited by eagle-pete)

The best part for me was the camaraderie and brotherhood of Wood Badge. Anywhere I go in scouting, no matter if I am part of that particular council, district, or on online forums - I am part of a brotherhood. I was at a roundtable recently and we were in a room with several Woodbadgers, some from different courses and various locations. In uniform, wearing our regalia, discussion invariably went to Wood Badge topics. Even though none of us were at the same WB course, we all were very familiar with the jokes, activities, concepts, and memories of Wood Badge. Something that happened, at least in my patrol, was soon after the course we became disunited or disjoined as a patrol. Very little effort was made by any member of my patrol (including myself) to stay together on ticket progress or even to maintain contact with one another. I am not even sure to this day if we have all received our beads. As I understand it, the old WB course (prior to WB for the 21st Century) was much more focused on scouting skills and also promoted more patrol teamwork and patrol unification, whereas the current course leans slightly toward individual development of leadership and how to make a positive impact on others neither of which concept is better than the other just a little different. The trade-off, as I see it, is that the skills I learned during the course were focused on the individual instead of on a team. It is perhaps more accurate to say I got a lot out of Wood Badge rather than We got a lot out of Wood Badge I am sure that many patrols in the WB course today experience that awesome unity and bond. All I am saying is that my patrol did not. This is probably the only real negative that I came away with if I had to come up with one. Overall, the course and the ticket completion process was one of the best things I have ever done and I dont regret one iota of the experience. Eagle-Pete

Ah... I've never used the 'spin thread' feature here. Actually, it was really rather simple - I made a short questioneer with some questions obviously directed to the boy and others more or less directed to the parents. Questions for the boys were like, "What do you like most about Cub Scouts?", "Would you like to attend Cub Scout Day Camp this year?", "Do you like coming to Pack Meeting?". Questions more geared toward parents were like, "Do you know where (boy's name) is in his progress toward the (award name)?" As for getting suggestions for what we could do better, I asked general questions to the parents and wrote them down. Some questions were like, "What can I do to include you more in your boy's Cub Scout experience?" That was about it. Eagle Pete

I work primarily with the Cub Scouts. If National called me and asked this I would refer them to about 6 Cubs in our Pack that could give them a rundown of what they liked about Cub Scouts. Actually, one of my WB ticket items was to meet with and interview each boy and their parents in my Pack and discuss what the boys liked about Cub Scouts, how I could assist the parents, and what the boys would like to see more of in the Pack. I then implemented all the suggestions. WOW! Was that an eye opener. Eagle Pete

As I read through all the posts on this topic, I was looking for one which expressed the Cub Scout spirit and how it should apply to this situation. I believe Kalquest has the right idea. Not that we should all go out and get rubber chickens, but that he has put the Cub Scout spirit to very good use and considers how his actions and how he handles his pack will affect the boys of the pack. I recently stepped down as Cubmaster in my pack and the one thing I learned over the past 4 years is that boys like to play and be silly - so go with that. Get their attention with silliness, jokes, costumes, games, etc. (when appropriate - a ceremony for awarding an Arrow of Light would probably not be the time). Positive reinforcement, rather than negative should generally be your focus. The way I always did it was with Laughy-Taffy. Incase you are unaware; Laughy-Taffy is candy with 2 jokes written on the back of the wrapper. Those cubs who are "doing their best" get Laughy-Taffys in my pack. Now I know this information doesn't help a disgruntled parent or leader who is already aware of this. I think the offer to have a Cubmaster who has not been properly trained to attend training is an excellent idea. Remember, be positive - just as you would for the boys. Perhaps evmori has the right idea, if presented in the right way. P.S. - As I am sure many are aware, a well-thought out, well-prepared pack meeting with lots of energy and fun generally does not have many problems with discipline. Eagle-Pete

The BSA has a unique methodology; demonstrate the correct method then allow the unit to function properly. This is not a very common philosophy in all organizations, but, in my opinion, it is a very effective one. And the philosophy flows down all the way to the boy. I have been to many trainings and I am a trainer myself. The most effective trainers I have seen present their material, without any B.S., and then let the leaders take that information and run their units. As far as upbeat and positive - I believe this is essential to providing interesting and engaging training courses. This does not mean, however, that the material needs to be compromised or that BSA policies can be changed. I would expect, when I attend any training, that the material is accurate and conforms to BSA standards and that the trainer presents the material without deviating from any BSA policies. I always appreciate trainings that have these qualities because I don't want or expect to be given watered-down information. If that is what I want, all I have to do is talk to an untrained leader. Eagle-Pete

I think that Owl62 is really asking if there are any WB rules about making your own beads. I don't think you are breaking any cardinal laws by making your beads. Our district provides the regalia from BSA supply. I have never seen anything written up about it and I don't see anything wrong with making your own beads. I like the idea of having the course number marked on them; it kinda personalizes them. I would like to just say that the regalia needs to remain a special part of Wood Badge. I would not like to see the regalia devalued in any way. There is a potential to devalue the regalia if it was misunderstood and misused. I am not suggesting that anyone would intentionally cheat the system in order to get the recognition that comes with Wood Badge (Heaven forbid). However, there is a reason that WB regalia is not readily available at BSA trading posts. Anyway... 'Nuff said about that.

Greetings fellow Wood Badgers - It is with GREAT PLEASURE that I announce a new addition to our family! Emily Maria Choppin, was born on November 17, 2004 at exactly 13:34 (1:34pm). Emily weighed in at 9 lbs 5 ounces and measured 20 inches long. Both mother and baby are doing great! Dad could not be more proud. In fact, I would venture to say that I am the proudest eagle in the nest!! Eagle-Pete

Yes Dan That's exactly what I was hoping for. I think I'll use that at my next Roundtable. Can I quote you?

Just found out my wife is a Buffalo. She's at Wood Badge right now! (No "so your wife is a buffalo, eh?" comments - Be original)(This message has been edited by eagle-pete)

WOW! I will be stepping down as Cubmaster this month and taking on another job of training on the District level. This is EXACTLY the kind of information I need! Thank you! I can see both points being made here. There absolutely are very good reasons to keep to a syllabus. And there are times when adding material or varying a course might be desirable as well. A few years ago, I attended a Cub Leader Essentials. It wasn't my first, in fact I had attended this course before with the same staff and materials presented. At the time, I was attempting to get all my new leaders "Trained". This sometimes required actually dragging the new leader to the class myself and attending it with them, so I had attended several Leader Essential trainings in a very short period of time. For me, the course, staff, and material were all presented in essentially the same manner as all the others. This particular time, however, I was bringing a new Committee member along who apparently already had pre-conceived ideas of Scouting and the way in which the trainings were presented. The leader went expecting to be given useless, nonsensical and boring information. Needless to say, the leader came away from their training with exactly what she expected. She told me she did not understand the material, her questions still were not answered (of which she asked none during the class), and she was still confused about her position in Cub Scouts. As I stated, I attended the very course she was in with her. The material was presented well, the instructor was interesting and engaging, and I found it an informative and well presented class. But that was me. My attitude was simply different than perhaps some of the other people attending. In my humble opinion, the course director, the instructors, nor the BSA for that matter cannot possible control or ensure that all Scouters attending any given course will benefit from the material or presentation of the course. So you have to go with the common denominator. I say present the material as it is laid out in a syllabus. Perhaps the majority of those attending will come away with a good and informative experience. Scouting, for some, may take many years to "get". An experience here, a training there... For me, I can recall that I did take a few years of trying to understand the program. It wasn't until my attitude went from "I can't do this" to "Maybe there is something that can help me here" that I began to understand. Show me a course that can convey that, and I'll have every Scouter in my district attend it! Wood Badge does come close but it is an advanced training... not for a new leader. Gentlemen, Thank you very much for this thread. It is precisely what I needed. Pete Eagle Patrol

Zippie Speaking of Youth Protection online... can I make a suggestion? The online course has some advantages - Convenience, easy to do, available anytime. However, in my humble opinion, new leaders especially should take the course in a face-to-face, classroom environment... at least on their first time when introduced to this topic. There are several reasons that I do this for our new leaders. First, the importance of Youth Protection cannot be stressed enough. A classroom with an instructor seems to be taken more seriously than the online course. The material is essentially the same, but the participant may regard a classroom to have more weight or seriousness than reading and clicking through an online course. In addition, a computer does not place any weight or importance on particular areas of the course, where a human being can. My first YPT course was in a class and the instructor was very good. He made certain things in the course very clear, so that there were absolutely no misunderstandings, and the seriousness of those subjects was made very apparent. Only a live human being could communicate that. Another good reason for taking this course in a class with an instructor is for questions and answers, both during and perhaps after the class. You cannot ask the computer any questions, nor can the computer read your facial expressions and determine appropriate responses based on your body language. A human being can. Some of the subject matter of Youth Protection Training is sensitive enough that the impersonal computerized online course cannot possibly, in my opinion, convey the right attitude or seriousness, nor can the computer treat a subject with any particular sensitivity. I have a good example in my own unit of an improperly trained leader. We have one leader who has not had the benefit of YPT with an instructor (this is an assistant den leader.. the den leader is fully trained). We have explained the importance of 2-deep leadership out of necessity to her, but she still continues to meet sometimes with boys by herself, or unintentionally finds herself behind closed doors with cub scouts without another leader present. She either does not understand or does not feel that it is really that important (or both). I suspect if she had the benefit of an instructor-lead Youth Protection Training course, she might take better precautions and ensure that 2-deep leadership is followed (you can lead a horse to water...). After all our leaders attend their Youth Protection Training with an instructor, I provide the information for the online course which they can take at their convenience. This method seems to be more effective for us. Leaders that have done it this way in our unit are more inclined to take all precautions presented in the Youth Protection course. Anyway, for what its worth, that's just my suggestion. Thanks for listening. Pete

P.S. I noticed that there are no topics on this forum discussing the specifics of the Wood Badge course. Coincidence? I think not. Pete

No one is suggesting we develop these secret "clubs" or elite organizations. There are, however, things that the Wood Badge Staff might discuss, collaborate on, and try to clarify on a web forum that may not want to be shared with Scouters who have not yet been through the course, thereby possibly tainting their experience at Wood Badge. All that the WB Staff really want is for each participant to be able to experience Wood Badge to their fullest. Anyone who has attended the practical course knows that prematurely revealing certain aspects or activities would spoil the intent of the experience. The advantages of a private and secure forum for Staffers would afford those who share these experiences a medium of communication where they are free to speak openly without any risk of lessoning anyones experience at Wood Badge; in fact, the forum would be beneficial, as ideas, experiences, and wisdom from seasoned Scout Leaders throughout the world could be shared. I, for one, am fully in support of such a forum... though I have not yet had the opportunity to serve on a Wood Badge Staff. Pete Eagle Patrol