eagle-pete

I think responsible adults placed in the position to influence our youth understand that smoking is habit forming, causes serious health problems, and leads to experimenting with other substances like marijuana.* How can a responsible adult aware of these facts, seriously believe that smoking in front of the boys is a good idea? How does smoking in front of the boys keep the Scout Oath and Law? To address the original post, I think it is clear. Scout leaders are not the average guy/gal on the street. They are an example to the boys and a huge influence - second only to their parents and religious organizations. Let's be honest and call a spade, a spade. It is irresponsible for any Scout Leader to smoke cigarettes in front of the youth and they should be asked politely to smoke elsewhere. *Source: http://addictionrecoverybasics.com/2007/10/24/remember-marijuana-is-a-gateway-drug-well-how-about-nicotine-the-smoking-gun/ Eagle Pete

It's not about body fuel. It's about bribery. But seriously, snacks are relatively harmless, if kept under control. I do suggest saving them until the end of the meeting. Don't need to add to the already hyper nature of boys during the meeting. How about not providing snacks for EVERY den meeting... just a few. I would also consider trying to go healthy - less sugar. Doesn't mean you need to get out the rice cakes, but I'd avoid candy and soda. Again, the hyper problem. The fact is, boys like to eat and they like activities which involve food. I might cut back, but I would not eliminate it altogether. Just my opinion Eagle Pete

Joni (sorry, I misspelled this) May I make one more comment? Don't allow anyone's comments on this forum to make your decision. All the comments on this forum are opinions of Scouters, nothing more. I would take what good you can from it and ignore the rest. Your decisions should be based on sound advise from people you know, what your gut tells you, and your own good sense. Not from a faceless posting by someone who doesn't know you, doesn't know your situation, and who cannot possibly give you sufficient advise on which to base a decision. In my OPINION - and that's all it is.. is it would be a mistake to not take Wood Badge based on your experience here on this forum, although I would have liked to have contributed positively to your decision to go. Eagle Pete(This message has been edited by eagle-pete)

Joni4TA May I clarify something? You wrote: I don't know why folks get so nearly rude, and can't seem to believe just because it's not expensive for THEM, maybe it IS for "the other guy" when the other guy says it is. First of all, I apologize if I or someone else replied in a way that seems rude. My intention was certainly not to be rude to you. But let me explain... in your original post you state that "...it is extremely expensive. It costs as much to go to a business management seminar in some cases." Well, I think that I, and perhaps emb021, tied the two statements you made (that it is extremely expensive, and that it costs as much as a business management seminar) together. We may have made the wrong assumption, but it appeared that you were comparing the cost of Wood Badge courses to similar business courses which are offered in the corporate world. There are a couple of dynamics here... One, we want to dispel any myths that tend to spread, like Wood Badge is an expensive and exclusive course only for those who can afford it. This is simply not the case and as Lisabob pointed out, many councils offer ways to offset the cost. Another issue is recent topics on this site which deal with this very subject have become somewhat inflated. As you can imagine there are people just like you who visit this site wondering the same things as you, such as whether Wood Badge is worth the cost to attend. Rather than discourage someone from attending because of cost, we would prefer to illustrate the benefits of Wood Badge which, IMO, greatly outweigh the cost in dollars. So why don't I start now with listing some benefits - Scouting Spirit Because of the material presented, the environment, and the quality trainers who are invested solely in seeing that you come away with a great experience, your Scouting Spirit will increase and become a part of everything you do in Scouting. Camaraderie You will meet new people, and because you spend a week of your life with these people, you will become fast friends with many of them. Additionally, some may directly be involved with changing your perspective and outlook on Scouting, the youth, how you interact with others, and your life. Those people will become especially important to you. Knowledge Can you put a dollar value on knowledge? You will be exposed to leadership skills, relationship management, structure and foundation of Scouting. I know of no other training course that provides this level of knowledge coupled with the fun and adventure of Scouting for the price you have seen. Vision A good deal of how we portray Scouting to the youth is our own vision of what it can and should be. Wood Badge is presented in a way in which you are able to create your own vision of Scouting. It is the catalyst of change which can make your unit better and will directly affect the youth you serve. Remember, "Every boy deserves a trained leader". Goals By setting realistic and meaningful goals, and employing a method of achieving those goals, Wood Badge will bring you that much closer to reaching your vision. Additionally, you take away and keep the skills and knowledge you paid good money for. As you accomplish the goals which you set, you ensure that the training doesn't turn into just a good experience you once had. You actually change your life. These are only a few of the benefits. It would not be possible for me to list everything that you will experience. For that, I suggest you sign up and go. Oh, and please forgive me for having sounded harsh. It was just a knee-jerk reaction to an already hot topic on the forum. I am working on being more helpful in my replies. Eagle Pete

Ditto on what emb021 said I am really not understanding where Joni4TA is getting info on Wood Badge. It seems more like myths than actual facts. Can you provide some sources with the details of the costs and courses you are referencing here? National is, in fact, adamant about keeping costs down for Wood Badge. Why on earth would BSA want to promote trainings which are neither affordable nor desirable to attend?!? Eagle Pete

BrentAllen wrote: If politely pointing out your sore lack of knowledge about a subject you speak so often of is a personal attack, so be it. Here, here! Again, if you knew anything about the course, you would know the CD is always the SM. The first half of the first day is spent as part of the Cub Scout program, and at the Blue & Gold lunch, the participants cross over to Troop 1. Now, if the CD is the SM who is there to welcome the new members of Troop 1, it would be pretty hard for him to also be the CM as well. So, no, the CD is not the CM. Another staff member acts as CM. You're wasting your breath (typing?). Kudu isn't interested in the course whatsoever. Hasn't he made this clear? Kudu wrote: I haven't seen a course outline... BrentAllen responded: This is painfully obvious. Is anyone else amazed at how Kudu can trash a program he knows so little about? Amazed, yes... but also saddened that Kudu may be tainting the opinion of leaders who have not had the benefit of experiencing Wood Badge for themself - an experience which he claims to have had, and now feels obligated to rob from others. Wow! I had no idea us Wood Badgers were in charge of making uniform decisions! What next, we are part of the vast right-wing conspiracy?!?! Please keep it coming - this is getting very entertaining! We also caused hurricane Katrina Kudu wrote: I was right about the Scout Uniform and I am right about the Patrol Method. BrentAllen responded: Yeah, and did you invent the internet, too? You honestly think you have been the only one calling for a uniform change? You are a true legend in your own mind! As for your Summer Camp Dining Hall beef, you'll have to take that up with the BSA and the Councils. I'm surprised you would lend your time to a group (BSA) which you find so lacking. FYI, at the Summer Camp I attended as a youth, we cooked all of our meals. As for cooking over an open fire, it is rarely done anymore, due to LNT concerns. We are going camping this weekend and we have a complete fire ban (National Forest Service) - not even charcoal. Camp stove cooking is the 21st Century method of camping - by patrols, no less. Welcome to 2007. I would also add Kudu cannot possibly be right about something he knows little about (Patrol Method). Just a few more quesitons. Did you complete your ticket? Were you awarded your beads? Do you wear them? Yes, please do tell. Eagle Pete

I have been reading through the posts in this thread, trying to determine what point Kudu has been making, and whether he has said anything that could be of benefit to another scouter - whether they chose to take Wood Badge or not. So far, I have found nothing from Kudu in this thread that I can see that could benefit anyone. No matter what our personal opinion is - for or against Wood Badge - if any Scout Leader comes away from the training with something that can help them or their unit, I don't see how bad-mouthing Wood Badge benefits Scouters, BSA, or the boys we serve. I would suggest that we not throw on anymore fuel to add to this fire. I would even go so far as to suggest that a moderator consider locking this thread before someone really gets mean. Eagle Pete

ABCDE Sounds like you are excited to get your denner started. That's great! Just a few comments The Denner accomplishes a few objectives in your den. First, as has already been mentioned, it introduces Cub Scouts to leadership: a concept that will be much more important as they go on into Boy Scouting. Additionally, having a Denner can really help in your den (if used properly) as a way to keep the boys focused in the den meeting. Sometimes boys respond differently to another boy than to an adult. Have the Denner show the Cub Scout Sign when you want everyone's attention or when you think things need to get calmed down a bit. Just whisper to the Denner to show the Cub Scout sign. This allows your Denner to lead and show. The Denner also provides a role model or someone the other boys can look up to. They will want to be selected to be the next Denner. You can let them know that to become a Denner they must do certain things, such as behave, bring their books, be in uniform, etc. And now my plug for Training I would highly recommend that all the Pack Leaders in your pack take some time and attend trainings. The minimum recommended trainings are Fast Start, Leader Essentials, and Leader Basics which go over the specific position you are serving in. These trainings address things like the Denner and other very useful concepts are covered. Your local Council should have information on those trainings. Another great way to find out new ways to do things in your den and pack is a Pow Wow. These are typically held annually, though they are not held in every council. Pow Wows are a day of many classes on many topics. They mainly have Cub Scout related topics. You select the classes you wish to attend. I find these very helpful. I have been attending Pow Wow for the last 10 years without fail and I always learn something new. And don't forget Roundtable. This is held monthly. It is a district level training, but it is typically less formal (and more fun) than formal training classes. You will get information each month on what you can do in your den. Also, there is usually many other very knowledgeable Scouters who attend and who can answer many questions such as, "What is a Denner?" Eagle Pete

ScoutDadof5 I am, by no means, an expert dutch oven cook. I have, however, cooked my share of dinners - mainly for family. Although it may be possible to cook two dishes together in one oven which are complimentary (such as herb chicken and potatoes), you'd be hard pressed to put together an entire meal in only one oven. I have found, for serving 4 or more people (but no more than 10), you will want a minimum of 2 ovens. This will allow for a meat dish and a vegetable dish, cooked simultaneously. You can also, if timed right, pull off a desert like a cobbler, after emptying one of the ovens, but this takes practice, especially when camping. Also, keep in mind that to accommodate more than one dish, you will make less portions when using only one oven - even with a large oven. You would not gain much by getting a larger oven, as cooking takes much longer and the ovens are more difficult to carry. Eagle Pete

I couldn't agree with infoscouter more. Plan, Plan, Plan! If necessary, use a Den Planning Sheet to organize the den meeting. I ran across this from USSSP http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/cub_activities/planning.asp It has a ton of good tips, advise, and ideas for den meetings. Remember to PLAN This little saying, although a clich, is true: "If you fail to plan, you plan to fail." Eagle Pete

First, you should have an Official Car Inspector. Their job is to determine if the car passes inspection and falls within your "Fair and Reasonable" standards for your race. If the Car Inspector determines that something other than the axles provided in the Official BSA Pinewood Derby car kit has been used and a parent (or boy for that matter) wishes to dispute this, he should be referred to your Pinewood Derby Committee. Once they make a ruling, it is the final word on the matter. (Although the word of the Car Inspector should carry a lot of weight). As to how to inspect the axles - provide the Car Inspector with an axle from the kit to be used for inspections. Have him compare both heads of the two axles (his inspection axle and the one installed on the car). You can see part of the axle on the car (may require a flashlight, which should be a standard tool supplied to your car inspector(s)). If there appears to be obvious color or finish differences, or the heads do not match on the axles, I would say that is sufficient reason to disqualify the car. Your Pinewood Committee should determine, well in advance, how strict or lenient they will be with regards to adherence to the rules. All rules, policies, and guidelines should be documented and made available to all race participants well before race day. Eagle Pete(This message has been edited by eagle-pete)

I used to be an Eagle and a good ol Eagle too But now I've finished eagling, and I don't know what to do. I'm growing old and feable and I can eagle no more So I'm going to work my ticket if I can... Back to Gilwell, happy land I'm going to work my ticket if I can! Eagle Pete WE7-589

JeffD wrote: "i know lodge is a good name for cast iron - but are others with similar features a good buy also? for example - Cajun Cookware Seasoned Cast Iron Camp Pot W/ Legs - 4.5 Qt. - $20" As you have seen, Dutch Oven cookware can get pricey. I have never had the funds to invest in a lot of ovens. My first oven was a Lodge and it has served me well. I got a second (both 12 inches) later when I wanted to begin cooking more than one dish at a time. Many recipes are written for 10" - 12" ovens. I find a 12 inch oven makes quite a lot of food for 6 to 8 people. It's about right for 10 people. I haven't had any experience with any other brand of Dutch Oven so I cannot comment on them. I still use my first Lodge Dutch Oven and it still makes the most delicious cobblers I have ever had. Eagle Pete

robvio I think John-in-KC provided the major benefits to those in your unit and your direct influence. I would only add this - Every boy deserves a [well] trained leader! Wood Badge offers advanced training for Scout Leaders which they bring back to the troop. I cannot provide a laundry list of benefits which you would then be able to equate to a dollar value. Let me ask you this... Can you place a dollar value on the difference you will make in the life of a boy after going through Wood Badge? If you are considering going at all, then I would submit that you have already assessed the value of the course. If all you need is a reason to go, then you don't need to look here on this forum. I can't really provide that for you. Take a look at the boys you serve and then ask yourself, "is it worth it?" I think you know the answer already. Every Boy Scout deserves to have a program that teaches the Aims, Methods, and Values of the Boy Scouts of America in the way it was intended. The only way we are going to accomplish this is to have well-trained leaders like yourself. In my view, Wood Badge is not an option. It is essential training that every Scout Leader who is committed to the well-being of their troop and the boys must attend. Just go. When you get back, if it isn't worth every penny I promise to do a chicken dance in front of everyone at my next roundtable. Eagle Pete

I am about to open a can of worms here, but isnt that what makes discussion forums fun? I am a member of an LDS unit, and as such, we follow the LDS scouting structure, which is Webelos is a 1 year program, then at age 11, the boy crosses over to the 11 yr old Scouts instead of the traditional Webelos II portion of the Webelos program. At age 12, the boy then joins the regular Boy Scout Troop. I often hear and read about confusion amongst LDS and non-LDS Scouters regarding the LDS Scouting structure. One of the most common questions I get is, How can you [LDS] people get a boy through the Webelos program in only one year? Well, let me pose this question How can boys make their transition from Webelos to Boy Scouts without much of an introduction to the Boy Scout program? And what is the goal here? Arent we all trying to help these boys make the transition to Boy Scouts a smooth one? There are several reasons the LDS units have this 11 yr old Scouting program, most of which is outside the scope of this discussion. However, one very good benefit of that program is the orientation and preparation the boy receives during that year. We try our very best to get each boy to First Class by the end of that year. This exposes the boy to real outdoor experiences, helps them to understand the fundamentals of Boy Scouting, and provides experiences which build their self-confidence before entering the troop. Another aspect to LDS units is the benefit of having a troop already within the structure of the same Chartered Organization as the pack. This means that much of the time, the Webelos age boys often already know the Boy Scout Troop and joining the troop is usually not a scary or uncomfortable experience. So theres my pitch for LDS units. Undoubtedly, there are those who have misconceptions or objections to the LDS method of Scouting, however, I find it a well thought out program and (when run properly) has a good chance of keeping boys in Scouting. Lisa, In answer to your question, I wonder if there are some concepts that can be taken from the LDS method and applied to traditional units. Can there be more preparation in the Webelos II time period to help these boys make their transition to Boy Scouts more smooth? Eagle Pete