Eagle Foot

Over the years as camporee chairman I faced the same problem, one thing that helped was to start promoting early. Form a camporee committee and decide how and who was going to run and promote the camporee. We tried letting the troops do it and at best we had poor attendance when time to promote was short...say four months out. Troops tradionally plan their year in August. If they know before hand about the camporee they can include it in their yearly planning. Doesen't seen to matter if the troop handles the camporee or if an individual handles it, it's early promotion and good communication that leads to high turn outs. A good theme also makes for a good time. Two of the best camporees I ever did were ---Mission Impossible--- and --- Survivor-- both were at night which under the cover of darkness made them more exciting. Be direct and forward for help, ask for commitments and follow up and this will lead to high attendance. I still have the programs for these and am more than willing to share them. The best was Mission Impossible...adapted form Cliff Golden, it was really a hit. Edited by Eagle Foot

I did not read through all of the postings and if I am repeating myself...just ignore this. Yes...Scouts should pay even if they are not present, if absenteeism continues you have to set some guide lines. We after 60 days do not allow them to camp or advance(by not allowing to advance we restrict giving them their rank, merit badge etc usually they are not working anyway). After 90 days they have to meet with the committee to discuss why they should remain in Scouting and why we should allow them to continue. They need to explain why missing and not partisipating should be exceptable. If you don't practice how can you expect to play in the big game? The Scout also can not apply any fund raising money to his account untill his dues obligation is current. The books should be open to all in the troop...if you are using Troop Ledger reports can be generated so each member of the committee will have one. They can see where all monies go and how or where it has been routed. You may elect to limit each individual scout to just the scouts family, which is in my opinion a good idea. Bottom line is trust. At the end of each year the Treasurer, Committee Chairman, Scoutmaster, and if you can a private accountant (volunteer) should audit the books, or at least have some sort of review to let everyone know how everything is being done and accounted for. Fund raiser money has to be deicded before the fund raiser not after, this causes to much argument sometimes and some un-fairness. You (the committee, the Scoutmaster, and the PLC) should have pre-determined where and how this fund raiser money should be divided or targeted. As fundraising chairm...it is the responsibility to keep track of: Who, What, Where, When, and How Much. edited by Eagle Foot

pmarius, I've had that more than several times. You've got some good advise here from this great forum of people. I in the past and even today I make it very clear to everybody the decention amoung the ranks is not permitted. We just can not allow this, and if it continues then we...we being the Troop Committee will have to ask you not attend any meetings or activities or be involved with the Unit other than the Scout. If this can not happen...then you must find another unit that would support this behavior (don't know of any that would)...but first in the order of things I bring them to the unit Committee after I have sent them a letter explaining the problem...you must get to the point...get it out...you must fix it or get or out of the way...this is a movement that can't be stoped with decention amoung the ranks. Get advise from your DE, COR, and Committee Chair. Review the Scout Oath...if this does not conform to any part of the Oath, then it's not Scouting. From my experience a letter corrected the problem...they backed off, unfortunantly they usually left the unit with the scout when they realized that the unit committee was not in their favor. (people will leave) you have to expect this...you are much better off without these kinds of problems. We have a saying "What's the hardest thing about advancement or earning a Merit Badge"..........Getting Started.... Remember Scouting is by invatation...you do not have to except everyone...we are very casual about joining, but it is by invatation, we are private. I make it crystal clear that negative consultation amoung others was not excetable...but since they were so... would they present their concerns to the unit committee and in addition...present a full plan (to the committee) as to how they could correct the problem(s) with workable solutions that followed BSA policy and the scouting way. In addition please forward scouting history along with BSA training history (or lack of) and when (if not already) will training be compleat? In addition how do they see themselves as a leader...a trained leader. They should come prepared (to unit committee meeting) with this imformation prepared (Scout Moto "Be Prepared". (who knows you may have a great leader that just needed a little training and tameing) I also recommended that if becoming trained was a problem then assisting with the unit requires training (everyone else should also be trained...what's good for the goose you know). In our Boy Scout Troop we only allow adults to go camping if they have compleated the on-line training for youth pertection. If your unit is Cub Scouts then this presents a problem because the parent needs to be there...they still need to know where the unit and BSA stands. ---EVERY BOY DESERVES A TRAINED LEADER--- If your unit is Boy Scouts then there is more room to move. Scout stays, they deliver and pick up their scout. We are not here getting paid the big bucks for the parents...our big pay back comes from the boys. Scouting has been around a long time and each unit needs to adjust to it's own, but the movement "keeps on truckin" (dating myself)... she won't be the first and she won't be the last. At Unit committee meetings "Roberts rules of Order" should be followed, it's the rules of the meeting. http://www.robertsrules.com/ Get the unit to review these (if it hasen't already)the committee chairman conducts the unit committee meeting. Good idea to follow...it may seem to much at first, but once they use it...meetings start on time and finish on time. We need to follow a format if we don't everybody will be waiting for the program to kick in with 25 screaming scouts running around and not going anywhere. Edited by: Eagle Foot

As a former SM who steped down last year after serving for four years when I said I would only do it for one. As the Scoutmaster I knew who would make a good SM and who would do just a "L-soot ol Job" I had a very good working relationship with the Troop Committee and the Troop Committee Chairman. I knew it was time...we all must realize this, if you don't know when or you don't know when or what would be best... then most likely your not in touch with the other Troop leaders, the boys and all involved as you should be...I was more in touch with myself and not the Troop and the other leaders. It is difficult...at least it was for me (I had my ego) and diden't want not to give it up. I did realize that there were others that could do a better job than me...and thats what counts and we should focus on that. We built our Troop on this principle...surround yourself as SM with others that can do a better job than you. I did let go and the guy that took the position is really great, the boys like him (this is what really counts) the adults really like him (this is only second to the boys)and the troop continues to grow. I took over when the Troop was down to 5 to 7 scouts...now they are knocking down at 55 Scouts with 50 active. This leadership thing...get those involved that are better than you...look for those people...have them choose those that are better than themselves and so on and so on. You should contact the COR, but in most Troop I know the position doesn't function as it should and they usually say...you decide and the committee. Discuss it with those close to you first, find the best...at least at the present. There's lots of good people out there with lots of good potential for SM. Look at this...I could do a better job as advancement chairman than I could at SM...the ASM of quartermaster's can do a better job as SM than I. It's what makes the program work best, it keeps changing we are a movement...keep looking for better ways to keep it moving. Edited by: Eagle Foot

As computers are not my main field...but out of "If I want to keep my job" I have learned to use this great tool. I have built a web page for our troop...but as I look around at other sites they really have come up with some pretty cool looking hover buttons and the like. I use front page 2000 and I am looking for some stuff like one troop I saw...wooden shingle where you can write your link. I'v e-mailed them several times but no responce...there last update was back in 06.. http://www.troop44-vanalstyne.com/ Any ides...what do I need to buy or what to download using front page? Eagle Foot

Guess I should read more... Troop Dues....we collect a $100 per year...paid either a lump sum or by the calander quarter. If the scout is not present...he still owes the money. If he gets behind by 60 days after the end of a quarter he can't go camping or advance. After 90 days we really try to find out why. After 90 days he and his parents meet with the Scoutmaster, Troop Committee Chairman, and the other key committee members to either resolve the dues or dismiss the scout from the troop. Eagle Foot

Diden't read all of the replies...sorry if I missed this. We use Troop Ledger...by the makers of Troop Master...this generates a report of each item (as long as it is entered). I see know problem with letting any one see the report. If they have a problem...well I just recurited a new committee member. It keeps track of troop dues, fund raisers, etc. We have no secrets and we sertanly don't want folks to think so. If for some reason people think we are spending it wrong...they need to speek up. Our goal is to same money then spend it, save money spend it. We make a Troop budget, we give the Scoutmaster petty cash...we spend the money faster than we get it most times. In the end we are always spending it on the scouts and the troop. Edited by Eagle Foot

We are looking at no charge under 150 miles round trip Trips 150 to 250 round trip $10 per scout Trips over 250 miles round trip $15 per scout. Eagle Foot

Key 4 District Ex.--District Chair.-- District Com. -- District Program Chair.

Can your local District/Council make modifications to the National Quality Unit Award. I've noticed that our District and Council has apporved the addition of selling pop-corn as a requirement for quality unit award. As it stands our unit is not selling pop-corn so our unit will not qualify. According to the current 2006 National Quality Unit Award... no where does selling pop-corn appear. Seems like to be this is like changing the Requirements for Eagle Also...what's up with the Key 4 in a District...I've always thought it was the Key 3. (edited by Eagle Foot)

We are putting together are annual JLT/YLT/Outdoor Skills training for the up comming new SPL and Patrol Leaders. We encourage the whole troop to attend because it gives everyone the big picture and it allows the older scouts to teach. I'm looking for some new ideas...I'v used the JLT training kit for years and will continue to pull from it. I have the new YLT..but it is lacking...mostly filler...I was dissapointed when I got it open, it has good information--just not as compleat as I had expected. If your troop does something like this I would like to hear from you and get your ideas. [edited by Eagle Foot]

Our district has decided to cancel our upcoming fall camporee because of conflicts, because of other activities that are not on that weekend but near. They feel that attendance would be low which could have overruns in expences. Yes the fall camporee had 20 attendees, the sping had 325, the privious fall camporee had 165, and so on and so on. The Key 4 the Program Chairman, District Ex, Dist. Comis, and Dist. Char. have decided or have had it from another source that they will make the decisions as to who, what, when, where, and how the camporees will be conducted and operated. I was under the understanding that allthough it is not the Boy Scout camping chairmans responsibility, (which is how it has always been done in our district) that no longer will I or that position be the responsible for setting up the camporees. We have tried letting the troop be host, but in the end we just had an expensive camping trip. Finding adults and scouts that will undertake this is hard and far between. The complaint is that everything seems to be at last minute,,,they are right...getting a comitment form enough folks to organize is often hard if not impossible. You never know who is going to bail at the last minute. Everybody has an idea, but they are not willing to commit to helping. Our past camping chariman had the same problem, you just have to deal with it. In larger districts this does not seem to be as big of a problem. Just how does your district do this? Edited by Eagle Foot

As part of the District Camping committee our DE informed us that if we did not have a budget we would not be allowed to hold a District Camporee. I am with the understanding that if the local troops wanted to have a camporee without funding from the District we could. Just to put things in perspective she...said that she was holding up pathes to the troop (Camporee Chairmans Troop) from the past Spring Camporee untill the Camporee Chairman turns in the budget from the past Spring Camporee. I could use some clarifacation on this. Edited by Eagle Foot

EVMORI The point is I not so sure I'm in agreement with this "Gray Areas" issued by National...The point is our council and district has made them an issue not to do. We had training regarding them...yet we go to our local Council Camp and they are doing the Gray Area skits, songs, cross dressing, and gay stand up comedy. We seem to be saying don't do as I do, but do as I say. Is this "Gray Area" thing just in our area or is it really national, I haven't called national, I just want to get it straight. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Over the past months our district has made us aware of the new BSA Policy listed as "Scoutings Gray Areas" areas where we should not go. I'm not so sure I can fully agree with this but some areas I can. i.e. the skit "JC Penny, The Ugly Girl Scout, the song Pink Pajamas, and so on. The gray areas would be anything that reflect gays, nudity, dressing up as girls (women) and the like. We have to be very carful about what we say, act out, or sing. Well we just got back from summer camp and I guess our Council seems to have not gotten this information. We had a skit with two guys that obiviously look like to gay men, not to mention that that they talked and acted as such...they delivered the gay impression. We had scouts (staff) cross dress as women, and to cap it all off they sang Pink Pajamas (pink pajamas is not so bad but the gay stuff?) The bottom line it was sick. Were are the real men we used to have as staff members (mature young men) we've got a bunch of sissieees. BSA has spent a lot of money in court fighting the gays and here we are working from the inside out, at least it appears so. They only thing they over looked was racial...and they got close, but did act a person with some sort of disability, not able to function and low mental capabilities. For some of us...if this is the way...I'm out...This is a hot topic and I and others were really upset about what we saw. When mentioned to the staff they just laughed...and brushed it off. The values I have learned in Scouting are not of this kind of kinky behavior. When the district talks now...it's gone a be...talk to the hand...practice what you preach. edited by Eagle Foot (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Hog-Wash is right...I talked with National Web Master and he was unaware of this hear-say policy. For the record you can build a web site and list what is going on in your district...Where do these DE's get this junk? Edited by Eagle Foot

I had heard that Nation has said that Districts are no long allowed to have web pages. Our District needs a web site because the local Council can't get the information right or just doesen't list what's going on in the District. I think having a District web site or "Un-Official" site created by the Volunteers. What's the word? Edited by Eagle Foot

Tenure based on Board of Review is true...It is the responsibility of the Scoutmaster to insure the program is running and being delivered. In this situation I beleive the SM may be not up holding his position. Hypothetically...the SM should advise the advancement chairman that it is their responsibility to keep current with all scouts advancing. If the need to hold a BOR every month is there... then conduct it...if the need to have one two weeks later then cunduct one. Just how hard is it really? 3 members of the troop (Adults) can make the BOR. Have questions on file for those who have never sat. Hypothetically...this sounds like the BOR is conducted when it is good for the adults not the scout. Remember too: PLAN, PRACTICE, BE PREPARED [edited by Eagle Foot]

I think you have to reflect on his past behavior...has he always bullied other boys? If the answer is yes he should have been called on the carpet at that time. He's just been testing the radar to see where it's set. Unfortunantly sometimes we turn the radar off to avoid conflict. Suspension for 60 days is ok, but in order to return he must appear before the troop committee with his parants and explain why he should be allowed to stay in the troop. Just a thought on what I have done...the scout I did this with you ask? He showed up at the committee meeting and did explain why hitting, throughing sticks, and rocks was really ok...it's just fun, if someone got hurt they need to learn to shake it off. The committee terminated is inrolement with the troop and formally sent a letter to his parents. You are better off sometimes, being a member of a troop is by inventation anyway. (edited by Eagle Foot)

How does the OA fall into line with the District Camping Commettee? I understand that the OA would work with the District Camping Chairman / District Camping Commettee. i.e. camporees conducting the OA tapout,working with units conductiong OA elections etc. I can not put my finger on the responsibilities of the OA...I have an old OA manual but nothing seems to point to or how this is set up. I can not collect information re-guarding weather or not District Camping has any pull over OA operating principles. I have been told that the OA is responsible for camp fire program at district camporees,and the District Camping Chariman is over OA responsibilities for conducting these activities. Got any answers? Where to go for information? Eagle Foot

We have Troop dues of $2 per week or right at a $100 per year. If the scout gets 60 days behind he's not allowed to advance (depending on why he is behind) usually they get behind because they forget to pay. Theres usually enough money to get a coke, candy, or movie when it comes right down to it. If the scout is behind 60 days or more he is not allowed to attend any extra events other than the troop meeting. At first it was a little hard keeping it inforced, but seems to be working out fine. Dues are for 2 camporees per year, 4 court of honors, patches, pins, equipment, etc all broken down to a precentage. Scouts who work at fund raisers get credit for time worked dived by 50% of the money earned. Sometimes it does not seem like much but it does give them the oppertunity to cunduct fundraisers to help or compleatly pay for their summer camp and some other extras. We also give a precentage to our charter...about 10-20% off the top before we divide up. You can't make a lot per individual on just a couple of fund raisers, you have to plan and learn what not to do. We will have about 5 per year with 1 big event where all of the money goes to the scouts less our contrubution to the charter. Edited by Eagle Foot

Here are your opinons Captain.... FScouter is right. The committee does need to get trained. This program has been going for a long time and each year I see those that come along and try and change what has been tested to be the most workable way. Sounds like the troop committee is forgetting that this is "Boy Scouts" and it is for the boys, by the boys. What happen to the term "Camping Trip" it is the responsibility of the Scoutmaster to promote 10 overnight camping trips and one long term "Summer Camp" each year for the scouts. Looks like a little too much control going on here. Eagle Foot

OGE is right. I may stand corrected but the Scoutmaster may disapprove and approve patrol leaders as he does the SPL. If you are not a member of the committee you should be and have your voice heard. If there is a problem let the committee know. Rembember and this is not always easy, you may have to visit several troops before you find the right one. Your scout is young enough that finding the right troop will provide more years to enjoy before his eighteenth birthday than he as already covered from the age of eleven. If the Scoutmaster has been trained he should be able to see this (he should even if is not)and work to making things right. You are expected to be involved as a dad...shoulden't be any other way. You are also expected to set the example and follow the Scout Oath and Law. Keep bringing into play the Scout Oath and Law and you will find it will have a way of changing how things work. Bing into play what you have learned from Woodbadge that's what it's ment to be done with...training, training, training, pass it on. I'm sure you will make the right choice. Maybe your son can get Ralph on the road to Eagle...the Golden Rule also applies in Scouting. Edited by Eagle Foot

This comes from "Guide to Safe Scouting" I have conducted many camporees involving the Webelos and Boy Scouts...However you should keep it to Webelos speed...having the Boy Scouts teach the Webelos. I would provide an incentive for the Boy Scouts like using the climbing towers, repelling off a cliff, or something with adventure beyond their working with the Webelos. ********************************************************************** Age Guidelines The Boy Scouts of America has established the following guidelines for its members' participation in camping activities: Overnight camping by Tiger, Wolf, and Bear Cub Scout dens as dens is not approved and certificates of liability insurance will not be provided by the Boy Scouts of America. Tiger Cubs may participate in boy-parent excursions, day camps, pack overnighters, or council-organized family camping. Wolf and Bear Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts may participate in a resident overnight camping program operating under BSA National Camp School-trained leadership and managed by the council. A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when supervised by an adult. In most cases, the Webelos Scout will be under the supervision of his parent or guardian. It is essential that each Webelos Scout be under the supervision of a parent-approved adult. Joint Webelos den-troop campouts including the parents of the Webelos Scouts are encouraged to strengthen ties between the pack and troop. Den leaders, pack leaders, and parents are expected to accompany the boys on approved trips. All Scouts registered in Boy Scout troops are eligible to participate in troop or patrol overnight campouts, camporees, and resident camps. Boy Scouts and Varsity Scouts 12 through 17 are eligible to participate in national jamborees. Boy Scouts and Varsity Scouts 13 through 17 are also eligible to participate in world jamborees and high-adventure programs. All youth registered in Venturing are eligible to participate in crew, district, council, and national Venturing activities as well as national high-adventure programs and world jamborees. Venturers are eligible to participate in Boy Scout resident camp, but they must be multiple-registered with a Boy Scout troop and attending with the troop. If a well-meaning leader brings along a child who does not meet these age guidelines, disservice is done to the unit because of distractions often caused by younger children. A disservice is also done to the child, who is not trained to participate in such an activity and who, as a nonmember of the group, may be ignored by the older campers. Family Camping Family camping: an outdoor camping experience, other than resident camping, that involves Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, or Venturing program elements in overnight settings with two or more family members, including at least one BSA member of that family. Parents are responsible for the supervision of their children, and Youth Protection guidelines apply. Recreational family camping Recreational family camping: when Scouting families camp as a family unit outside of an organized program. It is a nonstructured camping experience, but is conducted within a Scouting framework on local council-owned or -managed property. Local councils may have family camping grounds available for rental at reasonable rates. Other resources may include equipment, information, and training. Cub Scout Overnight Opportunities Cub Scouts may experience overnight activities in venues other than accredited resident camping. There are two categories of Cub Scout overnighters: Council-Organized Family Camp Council-organized family camps are overnight events involving more than one pack. The local council provides all of the elements of the outdoor experience, such as staffing, food service, housing, and program. These are often referred to as Parent/Pal or Adventure weekends. Council-organized family camps should be conducted by trained leaders at sites approved by the local council. In most cases, the youth member will be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. In all cases, each youth participant is responsible to a specific adult. Overnight activities involving more than one pack must be approved by the council. Council-organized family camps must be conducted in accordance with established standards as given in National Standards for Council-Organized Family Camping, No. 13-408. Pack Overnighters These are pack-organized overnight events involving more than one family from a single pack, focused on age-appropriate Cub Scout activities and conducted at council-approved locations (councils use Site Approval Standards, No. 13-508). If nonmembers (siblings) participate, the event must be structured accordingly to accommodate them. BSA health and safety and youth protection guidelines apply. In most cases, each youth member will be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. In all cases, each youth participant is responsible to a specific adult. At least one adult on a pack overnighter must have completed Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation (BALOO, No. 34162A) to properly understand the importance of program intent, youth protection guidelines, health and safety, site selection, age-appropriate activities, and sufficient adult participation. Permits for campouts shall be issued locally. Packs use Local Tour Permit Application, No. 34426B. ********************************************************************** Webelos attending camporees is nice, but the older boys need to have a camporee without Webelos....thats one of the reasons their in Boy Scouts!!!! There is a chart provided by national that list what Cubs can do and what cubs should not do. Two night camping is one of these on the not to do list. Webelos come in for the day and may spend the night. One to one is the rule (one parent/guardian per Webelos Scout) edited by Eagle Foot

As part of my "Woodbadge Ticket" I put together a troop manual AKA Troop By Laws. The word by laws has something to me that makes all of this scouting to legalistist. I wanted to put to words some possible answers for problems / challanges that had come from being a scoutmaster over the years...Thus it was named the "Troop Manual & Guide" You have to follow BSA policy you cannot change what national has in "The Guide to Safe Scouting" you can add as long as the Charted Orginization has approved it and the committee has placed its blessing on it. You do have to be realistict...do you want your troop to grow or do you want to stay at five scouts? A form posted some time ago from BR in Florida said that if the dominant adults continue to run the troop it will most likely allways stay small. If the boys are allowed to run the troop and with good adult leadership...that has an active program... the troop will grow. Boy run it will ususlly level off to around to three to four patrols. Sort of self governs. A senior patrol leader can only effectivly lead, serve, and direct fourty to fifty scouts...and then he will have to be a seasoned mature scout, that has a mature behaivor. The COR does appoint the unit leader after canadate selections from either the committee or appointed leader search team. The unit leader does not appoint the COR. The COR also appoints the committee chairman or in some charters the mens group, clergymen, or other group decide how this will happen. The unit is owned by the Charting Organization, they can set standards. I would sugust not leaving...but take this as a challange...if your son is not happy...you will need to consider this, but give it a fair shake by spending a little time. You can visit other troops in your area and in the mean time... see how they are doing things. Talk with your DE they will know of the local "TOP NOTCH TROOP" in the area. Most of all YOU GET TRAINED and you will be able to have first hand experience on just what is right and what is not in the ball park. Edidted by Eagle Foot