DYB-Mike

Im a bit of a history buff too, Eagledad. Its from my reading of history that I formed my opinion of Chivalry in the context of its time. I had used Cheerful Eagles suggestion that we should be careful in our use of symbols and traditions. In Star Wars Light and Dark are clearly defined and each acts in the way you would expect and our boys know that. To me it was personally troubling to read in real history of knights acting in such an unchivalrous manner as ordering the slaughter of all the inhabitants of a town, men, women, and children, based upon the actions of those few in control of the town. So, to me, to say be chivalrous just like a knight is not enough. I guess what Im saying is that as we pass these traditions and stated virtues of past cultures on to our boys we somehow find a way, in an age appropriate manner, to make them understand that many did not live up to the virtues they supposedly embraced, either because of the narrow mindset of the times or just plain greed and viciousness, and that we hope that they will learn from that and do better and be open minded in perceiving and addressing the wrongs they find around them. So I agree that its great to pass the virtues of Chivalry along, just make sure that the boys understand that courtesy means courtesy to everybody, black or white, rich or poor, etc. Im sure you do that but I just wanted to clarify my point. I also agree with your point about growing. In my opinion the prime objective of studying history is to strive to emulate the best and make every effort not to replicate the worst. Unfortunately that doesnt always seem to happen. And let me say for the record I am not a Star Wars groupie. I havent even seen all the movies, but my kids have kept me very informed about the Star Wars universe. YIS Mike

Funny how things are. We are very sensitive to not wanting to unintentionally offend Native Americans by making mistakes in their traditional dress or ceremonies, but yet we have no problem with wrapping a sheet around ourselves, sticking leaves in our hair, grabbing a big cup of wine, and running around shouting toga, toga! As a person of Italian ancestry who is very proud of the contributions of Roman culture to Western Civilization, I should be gravely offended by this mockery of the adult Roman citizen and his formal dress, but Im not and even if I was Im sure people would look at me as some kinda nut. This is not to say that its OK to mock Native American culture its certainly not OK. I can see by the posts that Native Americans themselves are understanding of errors in honest, dignified attempts at presenting representations of their dress and ceremonies. I just wonder why we are so careful with some cultures but much less PC with others. Saint Patricks Day is just around the corner (Im of Irish ancestry as well) and if ever there was a cavalcade of potentially offensive stereotypes you will find them on that day. I cant wait to get my green beer! YIS Mike

Hi SctDad Glad to hear your Blue & Gold was a success. We held ours back on February 10 and Im happy to report ours was very successful as well. I had written on another thread that we were using the Chinese New Year theme. We had Chinese food delivered (they gave us more than we ordered so we had plenty for folks to take away). There were also theme decorations and activities. The boys put on some great skits; one brave scout even came on stage in his boxers for one skit. We leaders even took turns telling corny jokes. We did award presentations. The awards were given in decorated Chinese take-out containers. Leaders were recognized for their work. Six boys received their Arrow of Light and we incorporated the Webelos Is into the ceremony, kinda passing the torch. Our Committee Chairperson also received her Wood Badge beads in a nice ceremony. The highlight of the evening was a Chinese Lion Dance performed by a local Kung Fu academy. After the Lion Dance some members of the Academy demonstrated various training exercises. They had one little boy using a sword that was pretty neat. We had about 118 people attend, scouts and their families. How many people attended yours? The reason I ask is that we had talked about a pot luck dinner but figured that to cook for such a large crowd would be time and cost prohibitive so it was just as easy and cost about the same to arrange for the food from the outside. Wish we had thought about inviting the Mayor! We have just gone from a town form of government (Board of Selectmen and Town Meeting) to a Mayor and City Council (though we still refer to ourselves as a town) and it would have been nice to have the new Mayor in attendance. YIS Mike

I think theres a place for the likes of Star Wars and Harry Potter in Cub Scouts, but only as the subject of a skit, activity, or Pack Meeting theme. Lets face it, the boys love them, it keeps them interested, and some positive influences can be gleaned from much of this current fiction (even SpongeBob extols the virtues of friendship). As for serious ceremonies I agree that we should stick with real people with real traditions. On thing I dont believe Ive read in this thread and the spun thread is that Native American culture is something the United States, and thus the BSA, can call its own as opposed to the English traditions of scouting that weve inherited. That, coupled with its cultural traditions rooted in nature, makes it an ideal source of inspiration for BSA ceremonies and traditions. I also agree with Cheerful Eagle in that we need to be careful about what real traditions and ceremonies we choose to embrace. Gold Winger, amongst others, speaks of the traditions of knights. In my younger days I read everything on King Arthur I could get my hands on. Unfortunately I became disillusioned when I began to read of the atrocities committed by such pillars of Chivalry as Richard the Lion Heart and the Black Prince. Chivalry looks and sounds nice but it was really nothing more than a mode of behavior for the privileged. Common people were slaughtered, enslaved, and otherwise abused. I realize Im judging medieval society through 21st century eyes but the point is that our idealized view of medieval Chivalry and knights is as much a fiction as the Jedi knights of Star Wars. Pirates are another group that popular culture has made warm and fuzzy. I realize nobody is suggesting the BSA adopt pirate ceremonies, but they are heavily used as theme material. Granted the exploits of pirates make interesting reading (and as a New Englander Ive read many a piratical exploit), but basically they were nothing more than murderers and thieves. This is just a personal observation and not a call to ban pirate (or knight) themes, just food for thought. Heck, the Jedi might be fiction but theyre as exciting and better role models than pirates! YIS Mike

Hi Moxieman, I did email the District office but they never responded (see the first post). Since this venue on the Forum presented itself I thought Id give it a shot. A follow-up email to the District wouldnt hurt. Im also trying to pinpoint the best person to approach at District Roundtable. Thanks for the post. YIS Mike

Hi folks, Something Ive always felt about the work-related trainings Ive attended over the years is that, compared to the actual presentation of the material by the instructor, the interaction of the class participants themselves was of equal, and often times of greater, value. By listening to and sharing ideas and actual experiences related to the material with my classmates I came away from the trainings with a better, more real world, sense of the training material and how to apply it. I had a discussion with our Committee Chair just the other day about how the Cub Scout portion of the monthly District Round Table was being presented. Originally it was more structured but as of late it has been more free form (part of the reason being the general program has eaten into the time allotted for the Cub Specific program). I told her I enjoyed the free form to an extent. Like this forum, its nice to be able to discuss problems or request ideas from other leaders in the same boat as you (even if that boat is bigger or better manned than yours). In my humble opinion training is important and should be mandatory. Leaders, especially new ones like myself, need to get a basic understanding of the program and what is expected of them. Then comes the implementation, the actual work. This is where the shared experience comes in. Unfortunately when most people hear training they think thick books full of facts to be memorized and boring lectures and that puts them off. Perhaps the formal trainings could be retooled and expanded. In addition to the booklearnin seasoned leaders could be called upon to share their experiences about what worked for them and what didnt all in the context of one size doesnt fit all and dont be afraid to try new ideas or rework old ones. Maybe allowing folks to use the online training to get the nuts and bolts and then requiring a roundtable session where the material could be discussed and seasoned leaders could clarify points and make suggestions for implementation. Training doesnt guarantee a great leader, but it at least provides the tools and the exchange of ideas with fellow trainees and the instructor helps to fire the imagination. Keeping that exchange going after the training is key to helping keep the motivation high. You never stop learning! At least thats how it works for me. YIS Mike

Hi folks, This topic and your ideas are timely for our Pack and myself as we are beginning to talk about spring recruitment (our Council is pushing it and we havent done it before). Personally, my youngest son will be coming in as a Tiger as his Webelos II brother crosses over this May. I am planning on being my Tigers den leader as well as retaining the ACM position. I specifically wanted to address the recommendations of cub day camp for cubs recruited in the spring. I am going to sign my son up in the spring and I had planned to volunteer and take my new Tiger to day camp this summer, but when I got the flyer from our Council it stated that only Graduated Tiger Cubs and the other Cub ranks could apply. I have been told that graduated means having earned the Tiger rank. Obviously that will not be the case for my son or any other Tigers recruited in the spring for that matter. Has anyone else encountered the Graduated Tiger Cub requirement for day camp? From the posts it doesnt seem like a standard practice. Is it unique to my Council (Old Colony, MA)? Have I been misinformed as to what graduated means? Thanks, YIS Mike

Greetings Scouters Update on the MOS patch. My son and I just attended another Museum of Science Camp-In. This will be his last as he is a Webelos II. Both he and I got patches for this one. At one point I happed to be passing a group of MOS Camp-In staff having coffee and, on a whim, asked if they retained any overstock of old patches. Yes they did was the response and a short time thereafter I had not one but three examples of my missing patch! I couldnt thank them enough! Another proof of the old saying it never hurts to ask! Im still looking for the Klondike patch. As I keep attending District Roundtables and get friendlier with the staff I might luck out like I did at the MOS. Until then, Im still looking! YIS Mike

I kinda have to agree with Evmori. Without more details one cannot really conclude that anything is going on. Do you know the scouter and his son? Is there a reason to suspect abuse? What were the shower facilities like? Were they an open, communal space? This makes me think of the motto of the English Order of the Garter: evil to those who evil think.

If my memory of Youth Protection training serves me correct, NO male (or female for that matter) adult leader, heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual (havent heard any comment on that one), is allowed to sleep alone with a scout unless it were his (or her) own son. Then theres Two Deep Leadership, which helps to insure that an adult leader does not find himself/herself alone with a boy. The boys are taught to follow the Buddy System, which helps to alleviate the possibility of a boy finding himself alone in a restroom (or anywhere) with an adult. Safeguards are there.

Thanks, Nessmuk, for the reference to Kiplings If. I was never much for poetry (maybe Im too manly, HA HA) but I looked up the poem and found it to be really moving and inspirational (pardon my unmanly emotions). All kidding aside, I agree its something the boys would benefit from hearing or reading and Ill be passing it along. Thanks again, YIS Mike

Hi folks, Not sure if this really belongs here but it seemed the most logical choice available to me. Just a nuts and bolts site question how long does it take for a unit to be added to the All Scouting Units on the Web section of the SCOUTER site? I joined the Forum back on 01-04-08 and submitted my unit shortly thereafter (I dont remember the exact date but it probably was within a few days of joining). Ive been waiting with great anticipation to see my units name up in lights but it hasnt appeared yet. I thought about re-entering the unit data but I didnt want to mess anything up. Any advice? Should I re-enter the unit data? Thanks! YIS Mike

Greetings Fellow Scouters! Does anyone out there have a Great Ponds District (Old Colony Council, MA) 2007 Klondike Derby patch they would like to trade? My son, then a Webelos I, participated in the Derby and I went along as a helpful parent. My son got the patch and its now on his patch vest. I didnt try to snag one at the time but now that Ive signed on as Assistant Cubmaster and have begun collecting the patches for events Ive participated in, Id like to try to find one. Ive contacted the District office but without success. Now that I think about it, does anyone have a Boston Museum of Science 2005 Camp-In patch (blue T-Rex, orange background) they would like to trade? Its the same story as the Klondike patch. Thanks! YIS Mike

Im sure the scouts are going to go crazy over Pack378s Star Wars B&G. My six year old who will be a Tiger Cub this September eats, drinks, and sleeps Star Wars. His big Webelos II brother and his friends are also huge fans. They have all seen the movies again and again. I am often asked technical questions about things Star Wars that I have either long forgotten or come from the prequels. I collected a little memorabilia from when the first three movies came out but in my humble opinion, for variety and quantity, what was available back then is nothing like what kids have available today. Even postage stamps! I feel deprived. My kids and I have a running joke. As far as this old timer is concerned, episodes four, five, and six are one, two, and three. When my Webelos II son makes a reference to episode four, for example, I look confused for a moment and then counter with Oh, you mean episode one. Hes taken to calling them 1-A or something like that. I have got the kids doing the old Saturday Night Live skit featuring the lounge lizard (forgot who played him) who sang in his loungey drawl Star Wars, nothing but Star Wars!. May The Force be with you! Let the Wookie Win! And all that! YIS Mike

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to respond. The information and ideas are very helpful. Our Pack meetings (Pow Wow is a nice touch, mtm25653) are about an hour long. In the past we did not follow the themes. We start with a flag ceremony, then usually move on to awards and advancement recognition. Sometimes announcements are made within the meeting, other times at the end. We have had parties with refreshments for Halloween (costume party) and Christmas (Santa with gifts, a.k.a. pinewood kits). Our February meeting is the Blue and Gold banquet, March is the Pinewood Derby, and May is an annual camp-out and cross over. Periodically we have Special Guests, such as our local K-9 Officer and his dog (the boys loved that; the dog could open the squad car door), a geology presentation, and a camping gear presentation by our big brother Scout Troop. Den participation has been spotty in the past. Our meetings end with retiring the colors. While our meetings havent been bad, some of us have felt that there was room for improvement. Commencing with our new year we are trying to be more innovative. We are experimenting with the themes and our dens are becoming more involved with skits, songs and jokes. This past November we went with the Indian Nations theme and invited our local chapter of the Order of the Arrow to perform a ceremony for the boys. For Christmas we dispensed with Santa and instead encouraged the dens to make some charitable donations (books, toys) and at the Pack Meeting our Cubmaster encouraged the boys to talk about their donations and how giving made them feel. I acquired an artificial campfire and we built the Christmas meeting around it, complete with our own 12 Days of Christmas audience participation song. The boys loved it! Thanks for sharing! YIS Mike

So thats what happened! I dont think theres any need worry about the Google search at this point. I was just going to make a post in defense of the venerable Webelos name but when I went searching for the thread I got a website cannot display this page. That campfire has been put out. Thanks for the explanation. YIS Mike

Hello Scouters! Heres a basic question: what do you do at your pack meetings? I know in theory that pack meetings should follow the monthly theme and include theme-based participation (skits, songs, demonstrations, and displays) from the dens. How many of you follow that model? How much den participation do you expect (and get)? If you dont follow the theme what do you do and what do you expect/get from the dens? How long are your pack meetings? Do you serve refreshments and, if so, who provides them? How often do you have Special Guest Presentations, if at all? In part, this is a thinly veiled solicitation for pack meeting ideas so feel free to brag about you Best Pack Meeting Ever. I am particularly curious though about how many of you stick to the monthly themes and how much of a contribution your dens make to the pack meeting agenda. Thanks! YIS Mike

Yikes! I guess bullets and dashes don't take? Sorry about that! YIS Mike

Hi April-D et al, The following is our draft agenda for our Chinese New Year Blue and Gold: h 4:00 p.m. V Opening ceremony (flag, Pledge, Oath and prayer, opening remarks); youth awards starting with Tiger and working up to Arrow of Light (Webelos actually cross over at a May camp-out); skits and songs. h 5:15 V 6:45 V Dinner (Chinese cuisine), grace said by Chaplains Aid from Webelos II Patrol. h 6:45 V 7:15 V Adult awards, Wood Badge beads presentation, Grand Howl for adult leaders. h 7:15 V 7:45 V Chinese Lion Dance (professional troupe) h 7:45 V 8:15 V Coffee and dessert, closing remarks, Cubmasters Minute. We still have a few details to iron out. There will be theme decorations and favors. We hope to have scout-theme fortune cookies (heat fortune cookies until flexible, take out stock fortune and insert "scout" fortune, allow to cool and harden). We also plan to have theme related activities during dinner for the scouts (and siblings) as we figure they will finish quickly and be looking for something to do. These may offer opportunities towards beltloops/pins. Our Pack has qualified for the Centennial Quality Unit award and we hope to have the patches to give out at the B&G. We have invited the head of our Charter Organization (Pastor, Congregational Church), Charter Organization Representative, the Scoutmaster of our big brother Troop, and other Troop and District guests. I have to give kudos to our Committee Chairperson/Webelos II patrol Leader who suggested we follow the theme and did a lot of work procuring the food and entertainment. Of course other leaders and parents are pitching in as well. Hope this helps. Good luck! YIS Mike

What Eolesen said, although it can get a little old after a while. I am/was a member of an ancient coin forgery detection forum (havent been back in while) that had this one particular bomb-thrower who spent his time accusing established coin dealers of selling forgeries and disparaging well-known experts in the field. He was constantly getting into verbal battles with the regulars and was periodically censured. The forum owner was somewhat controversial himself. It was fun at first but began to wear after a time and actually reached a point where it began to sour me on a hobby I had been pursuing for almost four decades. I have been following some of the postings of Meryln and Pappy myself. In Merylns case, while he may have some valid positions, I think, in my humble opinion, its not what you say but how you say it (quoted from my wife, one of the prime reasons how I get in trouble). Maybe he does it on purpose? Neither struck me as plants, just some folks with viewpoints that make some of us uncomfortable, but thats just my impression. Yes, you can choose to avoid these posts but sometimes its like passing a car wreck on the road Im horrified but I cant turn away. YIS Mike

Ive checked my profile info by using the link on one of my posts and found all the information that I submitted so far is there. Its too bad folks dont use the profiles. As a new Forum member (and fairly new scouter) Ive been reading a lot of the older threads. Theres a lot of great information there but sometimes a post begs the question where is this poster from or what position does he or she hold or whats his or her experience. I click on the profile and blank. I can sometimes piece the information together, especially from the prolific posters, but it would be nice to see a profile. I dont think the information requested in the profile is particularly invasive but I guess others may feel differently. YIS Mike

Hi! Heres another suggestion: Does your Internet service provider allocate you free web space? The ones Im familiar with, Verizon and ATT, do. I wasnt doing anything with my Verizon space (20 megabytes) and after seeing a lot of great Pack sites out there on the web I decided to use the space for our Pack. Im not super tech-savvy myself but the site building tools provided with the space allowed me to build, in my humble opinion, a pretty decent site. Ive posted pictures (52), clip art, links, our pack roster under password protection, upcoming events and other information and I still have space left. Heres the link: http://mysite.verizon.net/vze6o731/cubscout_pack22_braintree_ma The problem with going this route is that, since the space is yours, you are responsible for keeping it updated, but if you dont mind its not a problem. I actually find it fun. The other drawback is that the URL is long and not easy to commit to memory. Ive printed it on slips of paper and keep a few in my wallet to pass out as needed. Bottom line: Ive found the drawbacks to be minor and that this is a fast and cheap alternative if you have the space and tools available to you. Good luck! PS: I built my Packs site before I discovered the Scouter Forums and the free web hosting. Im going to check it out myself. Maybe Ill build a satellite site for the Pack if the URL is easier to remember! YIS Mike

Our Pack is holding our Blue & Gold next month as well. We went with Nationals monthly theme Chinese New Year. We will have a buffet from a local Chinese restaurant and have gotten a local martial arts academy to put on a Lion Dance for us (for a fee). Weve gotten some inexpensive decorations online, which include some Chinese New Year decorated take-out boxes to put the scouts awards in. Were going to have standard stuff as well, like skits and awards presentations both for the scouts and leaders. I plan to have the cubs give the leaders a Grand Howl after they get their awards. Our Committee Chair/Webelos II Den Leader will be receiving her Wood Badge beads at our B&G as well. We are fortunate that the husband of one of our den leaders is Chinese (from Hong Kong, I believe) and he has provided some valuable pointers. The downside to this is that its a little pricey. We do charge a fee to parents, relatives, and siblings who attend; the cubs are free. We usually do pot-luck (generally goodies) for our other celebrations throughout the year, such as Halloween and the Christmas/Holiday party. We figure the Blue & Gold is special, its the birthday party for the BSA, and so we like to do something extra if we can. The parents dont seem to mind. The OA is a great idea. Our local chapter put on a great presentation for our November Pack meeting. One suggestion if you do use them see if you can provide some atmosphere, such as low lighting. The bright lights of our church hall kinda stifled the imagination and took a little away from an otherwise impressive presentation. Good luck YIS Mike

Of course the neckerchief isn't cool anymore - too many adults are wearing it. That doesnt seem the case to me, at least in this neck of the woods. I went to District Roundtable last night and, aside from my own, noted only two other neckerchiefs both Wood Badge. All others were either bolos (not many) or open collar. In an earlier post I mentioned our big brother Scout Troop. I talked with their Committee Chair (open collar) who informed me that the Troop does wear neckerchiefs on special occasions. The neckerchiefs are custom made and are actually held in Troop storage. The boys were loosing them or forgetting to bring them to the required occasions so they thought that central storage, distribution and collection was the best and most economical way to go. Kinda doesnt teach much in the way of responsibility though. It would be nice if National would consider making the standard neckerchief in a more useful size, shape, and strength. During a recent Webelos hike we practiced making slings in the event of an on the trail injury. We brought material specifically for the slings. It would have been nice to have been able to use the neckerchiefs. I guess there is the custom-made route. If the neckerchief were able to be used as a do-rag that might enhance its coolness, although I shudder to think! YIS Mike

Im sure many of you have seen the recent news story about the Boy Scout who foiled an assassination attempt of the President of the Maldives. Kudos to that brave scout. Its nice to see some good scouting news. What got me though was the description of the scout who was wearing his blue Maldives scout uniform with a blue kerchief. Kerchief? While I did note that the definition of kerchief includes neckwear, nonetheless I could not shake the image of the Boy Scout Babushka! YIS Mike