DugNevius

Hey guys, that was us. The younger boys were those not eligible for philmont ages 11-13

what do you have in mind?

i remember at summer camp as a scout the SM's nephew was always getting in trouble. After one particular incident the SM sat him down at the table and asked "Why are you always causing problems?" to which the kid replied he didnt know. The SM then said that he should sit there and think about it until he came up with a response. That kid sat there for the entire day. I had to admire his fortitude.

Thats what the Committee Chairman is for, that buffer zone between the logistics and the scouts themselves. Your CC needs to explain to the Committee the proper way to do things. Committee members need things they talk to CC. He talks to the SM and then its past to the PLC.

Our SPL and PLs are elected. The SPL for one year and the PLs for 6 months. Elections are held twice a year. The process is made up of four parts. -Nominations. Any scout may be nominated by his peers and must be seconded by a show of hands by his peers to appear on the ballot. -Speeches. A prepared short speech of approximately 2 minutes informing his peers who he is and why he should be elected. -Town Hall. The candidates sit before the troop and answer questions concerning their past and their plans of the future. This is M.C.ed by the current SPL. -Voting. The troop votes by closed ballot and can vote for as many Pls as there are positions in the troop or as few as zero votes if they do not feel any are worthy of the position. The candidates with the most votes win. In the case of a tie there is a run off election following short speeches. If a second tie occurs the SPL breaks the tie. Our patrols rebuild every six months following elections. This is the process: The patrol leader with the most votes picks first. The Patrol name is selected first followed by its members. Scouts being selected can turn down their selection by not accepting, but they can not turn down every PL. If a selection is turned down, the selecting PL gets to pick again until that spot is filled. Patrols must be even, so not accepting a selection does not ensure that a scout will not be in his desired patrol. (If there are 3 patrols and 24 scouts to be placed into patrols, the patrols must be of 8 each.) Patrol members may have to be moved around during the 6 month period. To do so one must have the approval of the SPL, the PLs involved, the SM and the scouts involved. If any of these parties have a solid objection and state their case clearly, then the change can not be permitted. The Staff Patrol consists of a Senior Patrol Leader, his assistant and several other scouts in Leadership Positions such as troop Quartermaster and Troop Scribe. The SPL is elected and then appoints scouts into their respective duties pending Scout Master approval. The terms for the Staff members are not specified. They remain on staff as long as the SPL and the Scout Masters all feel they are performing their assigned duties or until the SPLs term is up and a new SPL is elected at which time staff is reselected.

an Election process isnt competitive? Our boys go through a 2-3 meeting process with prepared speeches, posters and a town hall where they have to answer questions thrown at them by the scouts. I would say thats pretty comepetitive. The boys that are prepared and deserving of the leadership get elected as often as they run, they kids not ready to be a leader normally dont. When i was a scout i went through the process 6 times. I agree, rotating any POR is not comepetitive or benificial in any way.

Our troop is basically the same as Eagledad. Our PLs and SPL are elected, the PLs sign off the requirments up to first class and the BORs are made up of scouts in leadership positions. On campouts and summer camp we adults read our books, sit around the campfire, go fishing. The ASMs and SM deal with the scouts through the SPL and the GreenBar members. Dads just relax. The boys do it all.

im sorry but you will never convince me that having adults chose who gets to be a PL and therefore who makes the program is in anyway a solid form of "Boy Led" and nothing more then adults micromanaging with little faith in the youth.

at summer camp we have our first years go for Camping, Cooking and Swimming first. After that they go for whatever they wish. I am always shocked how many guys going for eagle around 16-17 still dont have Family Life. That one is made for 12 year olds.

Gonzo, its not like its been much of a stretch for the media to report negative on a war declared won over a year ago yet yeilds more casualties post victory and, as pointed out earlier, a war started on false analysis (or lies?) I think yur anger/frustration/disparagement is misdirected. as for Westmorland, he would say, if alive, he was handicapped and held back from winning, not that he won.

Tet is well documented. From a Vietnamese military perspective it was a failed offensive and was quickly put down. From a stratigic perspective it did exactly what the NVA and Vietcang leaders intended, it sapped the support from America, Walter Conkite pronounced the war unwinnable and the media jumped on it as an example of the Communist resolve. Without civilian support large scale war is nearly impossible to win. The Tet offenseive, or "Myth" as you called it, is no evidence that the Vietnam war was in any way close to a success. The truth of vietnam is that the US killed more of the Vietcong or NVA then they lost, by a huge margin, but not a single long term objective was accomplished and therefore the conflict must be seen as a failure.

Gonzo, im curious what would lead you to believe the Vietnam war was in anyway a success.

actually i would make a minimum age requirment of eagle to 15 and a half.

i find the ratio of adults to scouts amazing.

Yu seemed to have dodged my point. If you are against the "troop method" because as you say, Adults dictate too much, then how can yu be behind a system where the Adults dictate exactly who makes up the program. That would be direclt control over the troop and the patrols.