dsteele

Hey! He said what I was going to say. No fair! However, I echo the sentiment. You can go the made-to-measure route, but you'll have to buy a minimum of 2 pair and the kid will probably be ready to join Tiger Cubs by the time they arrive. Gee, why does Supply make it so easy to take pot-shots? DS

Thanks, Eamonn. This could be much more fun than the other thread -- although I think there's some good points there. If I won 6 or 7 million -- I would . . . Use $60,000 to clear our current income shortfall from cuts in United Way, spring popcorn sales and general increases in expenses. I would put 2 million in a restricted fund so the council could use the interest from the fund to tell the United Way we don't need them anymore. We would continue our FOS campaigns and popcorn sales. The FOS campaign spreads the council story to the families and community leaders. Popcorn allows kids to earn their own way as well as producing PR benefits in the community. The rest would be for me and my wife. DS

The question came up of who sets the council goals. The answer is that it depends on which goals we're talking about. Goals for Quality Council, district and unit are set by the national council of the Boy Scouts of America (which is a mixture of professionals and volunteers like any other council.) Other goals are driven by the council officers (executive committee if you prefer) and/or the council budget. For example, at our camp we usually camp 400+ Boy Scouts per summer. We're a small council. If we were to have 400 Scouts in camp this summer, we will end up offering a great program without worrying about losing money. However, we currently have only 300 Scouts signed up for summer camp. That means we can only afford to run with the minimum required staff, watch every dime on food spending and program supplies, etc. Even with the best fiscal management, the council operating budget will end up having to cover financial losses from summer camp in addition to the normal losses it covers for costs of maintaining the property in the off season. So what's our goal for Boy Scout summer camp attendance? Minimum 400 -- driven by budget. Our executive committee's goal for camp -- 500. Driven by a desire to do even more for the Scouts. As to getting volunteers to "see the light" of why funding is so vital, I think you do it one piece at a time. Some will never get it. It takes patience and good communication to start mending the bridges. DS

I'll advance a theory to your question. I'm a professional Scouter with nothing to back me up, so I want to stress that it is only my own personal view, and not the view of the Boy Scouts of America. The flag on a uniform or vehicle should be portrayed as flying in the direction of the wind or viewed from left to right. On a stationary American Flag, the flag is displayed with the stars on the left --- just the way it is on the BSA uniform and in a room and on a wall. My theory is that the stars are on the right on soldiers' uniforms because they are rushing toward an enemy and not standing still. However, the free thoughts given above are worth exactly what you paid for them. I defer to the knowledge of this forum as I have no official knowledge or precedent to base my opinion upon. (sorry to be so politically cautious. I've wondered about this topic myself.) DS

A couple of sayings going around the profession I'll toss out. I toss them out in agreement with the underlying current running through this thread that the professional's critical achievements are not the volunteers' . . . (Please don't be offended. They are intended to give a professional viewpoint and not a policy interpretation.) "Ashes to ashes, what the volunteer doesn't do, the professional must." "If it weren't important, it wouldn't have to be done." Having said that, I should also explain that I'm a firm believer that professionals (and volunteers) perform much better when they understand why a task is important. With the understanding, they pursue it with vigor and ardor -- and it gets done. Without, things falter. If your asked to do something, and it doesn't seem important, ask more questions. If your DE doesn't understand, take it to the next level. If the originator doesn't understand, it probably isn't worth doing. DS

Eamonn -- Can't blame you a bit for your frustration. It's understandable. Just a few words to extend a hypothesis of what's going on in the office -- they're probably hurting for money like every other council I'm aware of in this economy and want to know when they can count on that particular troop's financial support (both in terms of cash and pledges.) They (meaning the Field Director or DE) could pick up the phone and call the Scoutmaster for the date, but may feel that it's better to have the call come from a volunteer. As I've seen from this forum and from personal experience after 4 years as a Field Director -- people feel beat up and pressured when called by a Field Director or Scout Executive, but respond to a fellow volunteer. It's not fair to the Field Director and not fair to the volunteer, but if the response ends up in a more solid council from a youth perspective, I'll bow to reality. DS

I can think of no good reason any professional would raise his/her voice in anger at a meeting -- either with volunteers or other professionals. A DE who does this because their district didn't achieve quality has bigger problems. I think most professionals realize that volunteers are volunteering and try to keep it fun and feel-good as much as possible. I think clear communication on both parts is vital -- who's going to do what. If one or the other parties can't come through, they need to make it known. While I think it's very important that professionals need to remember that volunteers are volunteering, I think it's important for volunteers to remember that professionals are working. (I say this for the benefit of readers.) When it's late in the evening, please don't expect your DE to stand around talking about Scouting into the wee hours. If the DE has to lock up the church after roundtable, help him or her get people moving so he or she can go do something fun (or just go to sleep.) Just a few thoughts. Perhaps we should change the name of this thread to volunteer/professional relationships. I like that better than "Back off a Little." DS

Apology accepted. I wasn't in the best frame of mind either. Saturday my staff and I spent several hours in an unheated warehouse distributing spring popcorn to units. I then spent several hours on Sunday putting the payments into the Trail's End system. It wasn't working very well, so I thought I would take a break on Scouter.com and read that (maybe) we don't need professionals. Seeing that when I'm working on day 14 of a 20 day stretch with no day off just rubbed me the wrong way. I'm not upset anymore. I can also understand why you were frustrated. However, it seems to me that the problem lies in your camp promotions chairman not doing presentations. Is he/she leaving Cubmasters doing soft shoe dances? I'll grant that the DE shouldn't have been crying to the district commissioner. She should have been talking to you. I agree that her critical achievements are hers and don't expect any volunteer to go out of their way because a DE has a critical achievment to meet.However, I think I'm safe to assume that you do care about getting kids to camp, which is the real issue that needs to be addressed. As to Twocubdad -- if the purpose of the dinner was to get the district and council camping committees up to speed on the latest and greatest info about upcoming summer camps, it was probably a good use of time. If it wasn't, you should pass your feelings along to others so it doesn't happen again. DS

"When will these nit-wits wake up and see that the entire answer to all of our problems lies in the program." First of all, your quote should have ended in a question mark. Secondly, it is insulting. I'm angry and will not address the original entry at the present time. I'll answer twocubdad, however. All professionals in the BSA have critical achievements. Critical Achievements are goals on which the professional is evaulated and rated for the purposes of management. They are designed to address the needs of the position in measurable and important areas. They are designed to drive a quality program as well as meet the basic needs of the council. Critical achievements often include membership numbers, new unit numbers, FOS numbers, camp attendance, popcorn, volunteer recruiting, etc. Each critical achievment (usually there are 8) is rated on a scale of marginal performance (the minimum required for the position,) expected performance (the standard,) significantly exceeds and far exceeds. Raises and promotions are based on the level of achievement. There are differing philosophies on critical achievements, but all are designed based on need, achievability (far exceeds is obviously tougher to achieve than expected performance,)and measurable. A membership critical achievement, for example, might look like this: "Achieve 1,000 members by 12/31/2003." Marginal performance -- 950 Expected performance -- 1,000 Significantly Exceeds -- 1020 Far Exceeds -- 1040 Base (last year) 950 So how does a DE make sure the program grows? In several ways -- make sure there are commissioners helping unit leaders put on a quality program. Make sure the training team has all the tools it needs to train every leader in the district. Follow up with units to make sure they're recruiting and that you know where the market share can be improved (for example, some "busy work" I gave my DE's was to look at their membership numbers for each grade in each of their elementary schools and compare it to the number of youth in each grade.) They might have thought it was busy work, and so did some of their volunteers, but now they're glad they know where they need to help units improve their tiger program, or change their bear leader. I tell my DE's to share their critical achievements with their key volunteers -- in my experience, people will help you achieve them if they know what they are. Some do not wish to share their critical achievements, and this should be respected as well. Critical achievments, are a part of their job and people are often not comfortable discussing their job performance with anyone other than their boss (and some don't like to do that, either.) I hope this answers your question Twocubdad. I'm now going to finish the laundry and enjoy the rest of my Sunday. I'm going to try to forget that I was called a nit-wit by a frustrated district chairman -- I'm sure I've been called worse. DS

I don't need to bother risk management with this one. It ain't true. Sorry. No such rule. There isn't supposed to be one on one contact between youth and adult -- which can be difficult to follow if you find yourself needing to give a ride home to two or more kids from different families and don't happen to have one of your own to be the last kid in the car with you. In that case, it might be prudent to have the youth ride in the back seat. That, however, isn't policy. Happy travel! DS -- Assistant Scout Executive

I got the email as well, and then verified it. It's legit. I purchased 200 yards of quality red, white and blue ribbon at the local fabric store. It's on the counter in our Scout office for the taking. I'm about to go out now and wrap some of it around our trees. DS

The Chief Scout Executive has asked that we all put red, white and blue ribbons on trees around our neighborhoods. For more information, go to www.scouting.org and click on the link. I just purchased 200 yards at JoAnn fabrics for $3.99 per 25 yard roll. I'm going to take it to the council service center tomorrow so people can take a hunk for free for their trees. It doesn't benefit the soldiers now, but I hope it tells them they were supported when (God willing) they come home safely. Dave Steele ASE

Genreally speaking, whoever approves the leader has the power/obligation to remove the leader. There isn't really a formal procedure, and it's never easy. I'm glad you pre-emptively took advice and let the district leadership know -- you don't want them to be blind-sided. I don't know the details of your particular situation, so I'll do your District Key Three a favor and only answer your direct questions in a general way. "What is the procedure for removal of a volunteer?" If the volunteer is being removed from membership of the Boy Scouts of America (and that isn't what your situation sounds like,) there is a very clear procedure. If the volunteer is being removed from a specific position of responsibility, there really isn't. It's a delicate situation that needs to be handled carefully. But it needs, also, to be handled. Period. It's best if done directly and positively. Try to find somewhere in Scouting where the person can be of better service. If it's purely a personality issue, perhaps they should move to another unit. "What is the CC and COR are the same person?" This happens quite often, although usually in newer units. That person, especially in a situation where he/she feels the need to remove a volunteer from a position, is best off if he/she involves the institutional head. If they're also the IH -- they'd better have a thick hide and lots of support from others in the unit. Do continue to seek advice from your district leadership -- in part, that's what they're there for. I know Sdriddle realizes this, but I'll say it for the benefit of others . . . Don't expect the "council" to remove unit volunteers unless they also remove them from the Boy Scouts of America. Remember that the chartered organization approves the unit leadership, and the council signs on the line that reads "accepted." DS

He sounds like me when I was a kid -- although I was a straight B student. Made Eagle at 13. Now working on year 15 in the Scouting profession and hoping for more kids like yours. DS

Well, folks, you were about a year ahead of your time. Fast Start for Cub Scouting and Boy Scouting are available on-line. Youth Protection training is also available. There are (and if there ain't, there ought to be) links on your council's web site that will lead you to the national web site and the training. I haven't taken the on-line version of Fast Start, but I did go through the YPT stuff. Youth Protection on-line works like this: You hit the council link and it takes you to the national training. You read stuff, click stuff and take periodic quizzes. I did it in about an hour, but I was interrupted several times. It also has sound, but I don't have speakers at my computer in the office (we're not a wealthy council.) At the conclusion of the training, I entered my personal information. That information was sent to my registrar through Scoutnet. Once my registration was verified, I was automatically emailed a training certificate. I think it's better to go through the live version, but on-line is a great substitute to help reach everyone. DS

Eamonn: Do you want to come to my council? I'd be thrilled to have you! I've worked with the council calendar for years and it seems like people want to fill every available weekend with a district or council activity. I disagree with them, but end up losing quite frequently. The best Scouting occurs at the unit level (at least that's my belief.) Council and district activities are good supplements to unit activities, but if there's too many of them they run the risk of substituting unit program. I think you'll find that your professional staff is supportive if you voice your opinion during the calendar process. Have good reasons why activities shouldn't be held and make them known. I think it's a very valid point that there aren't enough weekends for units to have their own activities without blowing off a council/district activity. Your professional staff will probably support you for the right reasons as well as the fact that they might get a weekend off. DS

Kevin -- (Assuming you read this.)I hate to warm up a 2 year old thread, but won't let it stop me either. I happened to be cruising through old threads and saw your message. I'm posting as much for your benefit as I am for any others who may be considering becomming a Scouting profesisonal. Like yourself, I grew up in the program and have many, many good memories of the great things Scouting volunteers did on my behalf. The warnings of the other volunteers who posted to this thread are true -- but they don't know how good it feels to be a district executive who dedicates his/her life to the Scouting program for our kids. I'm working on year 15 as a pro (three of those were ugly, but the other 12 have been wonderful.) It's worth it. Yeah, you have to relocate if you want to move up (with a few exceptions,) but that can be cool, too. I've lived in Michigan, Illinois and Wisconsin and am looking forward to the next location. It helps that my wife and I don't have any kids and that she's a special education teacher. If you like where you are and don't mind staying at the same level, you don't have to move. Talk to professionals in your council. The pay isn't as bad as others say it is, but you're not going to get rich, either. Dave Steele Assistant Scout Executive

Hi folks. I'm not going to weigh in on the nice banter I see in this thread. I think a lot of good ideas are being exchanged and it is, after all, still a young program. The issues you're dealing with on a crew level -- particularly in the arena of aknowledging the accomplishments of young ladies in the GSUSA (I'd better say that, my wife has her Gold Award and can camp and so forth as well as anyone.) I just want to clarify a couple of things as it relates to some of the organization of the National Council of the Boy Scouts of America. The BSA is organized into several divisions. There is a National Director of Program (he and I started in the same district.) Reporting to him are (among some others, but I'm not sure at the moment who) are a National Director of Cub Scouting, National Director of Boy Scouting, and a National Director of Venturing. I've known the National Director of Venturing since he was an Assistant Scout Executive. I can assure you he is real. However, he would be the first to tell you that he is not the "head of Venturing." The title may suggest it, but that isn't the reality. CH works with volunteer committees and serves as their staff advisor, much like your council professionals. My point is that volunteer input is important and participating in this type of forum (in a way that I can't clearly define,) helps to bring attention to important issues. DS

Hello, Buffalo! I liked the rhyme. There isn't a Council Operations Handbook -- you probably mean the Guide to District Operations which is given to every professional at PDL-1. It addresses FOS, but isn't very clear on fund-raising. Most of the rules you need are on the Unit Fundraising permit (on the back.) Interpretation should be guided by common sense and a professional staff advisor. But, if you really want to bore yourself, there is a fund-raising guide for councils (I forget the title, but it's almost as dry as the rules and regulations of the Boy Scouts of America and twice as thick. It is usually only referenced by Finance Directors, Assistant Scout Executives, and the occasional Scout Executive who doesn't happen to have a Finance Director or ASE to do it for him. If no one in the office happens to have a copy (which happens because few dare to delve into it's depths that don't need to be there) it is available to professionals on the BSA's finance web site. If I were you, I'd refer specific questions to the committee's professional advisor . . . but only after common sense and the unit fundraising permit have been consulted.

At some point in the last few years there was an interesting article on the Philmont Jacket in the Way it Was column of Scouting magazine. I haven't been able to find it, so I'll go on memory. The wool jacket many of us have in our closets (or on our backs) began as a jacket sold at Philmont. There was a kind of evolution that involved a lot of scouters returning home with their jackets, especially with the Philmont Bull sewn over the shoulder. That's what I remember from the article. What I can tell you is that the insignia guide covers the red wool jacket and is specific on what can be worn where. I don't have one with me, but I don't believe it refers to the jacket as uniform wear, although I infer it to be a non-required part of the uniform. I also don't have a BSA catalog in front of me, but I vaguely rember that it's pretty clear on what is uniform wear and what is merchandise. I do remember that two things were important to me as a Scout -- proper uniforming (mostly for myself) and owning as much stuff as I possibly could with a Boy Scout logo on it. But then again, I was a weird kid. DS

Just a pro weighing in. I'm at home on a Friday evening, so I apologize for not having my resources in front of me. I'm 98% sure that we're talking about a typo in the Scoutmaster Handbook. The reference I wish I had with me is a simple adult application (which is being revised.) The age requirements, I believe, are listed on the inside front cover, as are the declaration of religious and other stuff. I would take that fine print as the rule. Bob White is correct that you have to have a 21 year old (or older) lead any tour or expedition. DS

I got a kick out of the uniform police chastising your red jacket. There are rules about which patches and where may be worn on the Philmont jacket. However, in the grand scheme of things, there are bigger issues. I once had a scout shop employee criticise a volunteer for having too many patches on his red wool jacket. I loved his response. He went out and found matching red fabric and sewed it on the bottom of his jacket, turning it into a "non uniform" full length coat. He was warmer, covered it with patches (which the boys in his pack loved,) and took was no longer violating any rules. Gotta love a guy that gets creative. DS

Another piece of the pie is the institutional head visit. The district executive is charged with meeting with the head of the chartered organization annually. There is a set agenda on the back of the charter partner agreement. One of the purposes of that meeting is to evaluate the leadership of the unit and remind the charter partner of the obligations of the partnership. In a perfect world, the DE would make a face-to-face visit with each IH. Reality makes this difficult. He or she would have to do minimally one visit a week or more. However, if there is a concern or a unit feels it's institution needs a reminder, I would suggest that you ask your DE to visit the IH. DS

Thank you all for your replies. Your advice is helpful and so is the affirmation that the behavior of this specific volunteer is not to be tolerated. My advice to the District Executive who is the DE for that district was to have the District Chairman (who was present at the roundtable) write a letter to the cubmaster and strongly suggest an apology at the next roundtable. I doubt very seriously that the CM will deliver it. Those who pointed out that pressure should be kept volunteer to volunteer (and conversly professional to professional) are also correct. I've got a couple of council vice presidents who will thump on this man, but their wrath may be more punishment than the crime requires. I'm not sure. I'm not saying that his offensive remarks don't merit punishment, but you don't know these V.P's! I think, based on collective advice, that I will be at the next roundtable in that district and explain to people how seriously we take camp evaluations. I'll handle the female topic carefully, but won't require the presence of my two female DE's. If I won't ask them to be at all roundtables, I won't ask them to be at one. Thanks as well to those who realize that Assistant Scout Executive isn't an easy position in the BSA. I was at a training for professionals (before I became an ASE) and a couple Assistant Scout Executives were there. Someone told the trainer his title was Assistant Scout Executive. He smiled, bowed and said, "then God Bless you, sir.) BTW -- senior level trainers of professional scouters were Scout Executives (council executives) at one point in their career. DS Keep the responses coming. You've got good ideas. Besides, I'm on vacation and this volunteer is the first thing I'm going to deal with when I get back on Thursday. DS

Onehour: I was far more worried about antagonizing you than I was antagonized myself. Thank you for worrying about that, but don't. On a slightly different topic, I don't believe the economy and talk of war are really keeping kids out of Scouting. I think people will put their kids in Scouting as long as the program is good. Scouting is, and remains, one of the most inexpensive programs there is and (as far as I believe) one of the heartiest from a values standpoint. DS