dsteele

Good post. I'm not DA MAN. I'm a man. Just like yourself. Pretty good, eh, dear lad? DS --- grinningly.

For what it's worth -- I'm backing Bob White on most of this thread. His opinions on the uniform as a method of Scouting are on track. I'd love to see higher quality uniforms offered at a lower price. I'd love to see it offered as part of the $10.00 registration fee, provided it was earned by the youth and not given by an adult.) However, I also want it made in America by an American Union and that carries a price. There are 100% cotton options, 65% poly/35% wool options (my personal choice) and the standard 65% poly 35% cotton blends. As to the argument that the uniform should be cheap and mandatory, my thought is this . . . if the council suddenly said that registration fees are $150 and include uniforms and you don't have to sell popcorn or give to FOS, how many new youth would you attract to your unit? In affluent areas, probalby nothing would change. In most areas . . . boom! Just a thought. DS

Slava: Is a Visa required for Americans? How scouts and leaders are you expecting from your organization? Have you contacted the International Division of the Boy Scouts of America? They may be interested in sending an official BSA presence (and if you do contact them, you can tell them that I'll go.) With my own money, not theirs. Please feel free to contact me privately if you need more information. Dave

Welcome to the forums. For the group humor effect, consider how long it didn't take them to learn to bash professional scouters over there! Actually, I'm looking forward to reading the next thread about a Russian Jamboree. I'd like to go. DS

The promise is printed on the inside front cover of the adult BSA application. It's more of an agreement than a promise. When someone signs the application, they are agreeing to the material printed inside the front cover. The print is a little on the small side, but it ain't "fine print." DS

Padre: I wish nothing but the best for you, your wife and your family. I hope it works out for the best, although I'm not able to know what "the best" for you and your wife and family is. If there is some way I can help, please feel free to contact me. I'll do what I can. Scouting is great, but I happen to think that marriage is greater. Dave

They say Scouting rounds a guy out -- but if it's true, I'd better get with the program. I still have a 30" waist. DS

I'm not an expert on the Bible, but I feel you have reached a good or should I say Good decision. I'll take some heat for it, and probably deserve the heat, but I feel you and your foundation have reached a fair and just decision about this young lady and her leadership role. Scouting will move forward. DS

Laura -- And Eamonn for that matter-- I'm thinknig of my venerable old Scoutmaster. He bore absolutely no resemblence to Santa Clause, wasn't big and certainly not cuddly. His name wans't Bob and he didn't even have knowledge of all things Scouting. He was an eighth grade science teacher who had been a true "red jacket" program guy for many, many years. He looked more like Gandalf without the beard and had silver-grey hair and eyebrows that could scratch the back of his head. You didn't dare talk to him in the morning until he had his coffee and if you were noisy at night you went on a midnight hike until the grey light of dawn appeared. Then it was time to start the breakfast fires. I love the man to this day. Taught us a lot and is man enough to accept the blame for me joining the professional service of the Boy Scouts of America in 1988. I hope the guy lives forever. If his body doesn't, I'll make sure his spirit does . . . DS

Eisely -- I apologize. It seems I missed your point. Yes, I was picturing wearing the OA or merit badge sash looped over the belt. When I was a Scout, I thought it looked really cool to wear my MB sash over the shoulder and the OA sash looped over my belt. In fact, the arrow pointed down and I found out when I became an adult that I was in violation of uniform rules. Changed the error of my ways and learned my lesson. You're right that the proper way to wear a sash is over the right shoulder. It the point slides under the belt, it's probably uncomfortable, but not agaisnt the rules. Have a pleasant evening. DS

Mark: Thanks for the kind words. The name is actually Dave, not Dan, but I've been called worse. Probably am being called worse things by the youth staff of JLT. I just got back from my visit and was very impressed as I usually am when I go to those things. There was only one little problem -- a 25' high platform up in some trees that the staff had lashed in staff city. I told the SM that it was too high and the boys couldn't go up there. The first level is only six or so feet up, so that one's okay. I'm getting hungry for the feast on Saturday already! DS

Eamonn: I appreciate your response -- and I should probably appreciate the reference to being a lad (at 37 years old, I find it difficult to accept, but I suppose it's better than being called an old man. From what you've said, I gather it's different in my council than it is in yours. Also from what you've said, I have no idea why your district executives are being required to be in camp. That's something you'll have to ask the Scout Executive or Assistant Scout Executive. I wish my council were large enough that my DEs could spend the summer cultivating relationships with donors, assisting in recruiting, getting ready for school night and all the other things you mention in your post. That's what DE's should do in the summer . . . That and take a well deserved paid vacation and no humbug. We don't pay them the world with a fence around it -- although I wish we could. Heck, I'm not paid that much either, but we all want to take advantage of our vacations -- although we usually end up working during them in some form or another. DS

The Boy Scouts of America has a policy that prohibits homosexuals and atheists from joining. The BSA has a stronger procedure that requires the Institutional Head or Chartered Organization Representative and the Committee Chairman to approve unit level leaders. Regardless of my personal feelings about unwed mothers (which aren't good) and my personal feellings regarding sex before marriage (which I don't endorse) it is up to those who have to sign this young ladie's application whether to approve her or not. I worked in Michigan for many years and they were early on the bandwagon of criminal background checks. Most applicants came back clean -- the few offenses that were returned were things like "Driving under the influence" and "editing and publishing" which is basically writing bad checks. In those cases, our procedure was to notify the chartered organization and let them mame the determination of whether to let the individual be registered or not. If the violation were a crime involving children, homosexual behavior, or something else clearly against BSA membership standards, we would have kicked them out automatically. If it's not explicitly against the rules, it's up to the people who sign the applications. That's what we're dealing with in this instance. The unwed mother scenario is up to the IH/COR and Committee Chair. DS

I guess we're darned if we do and darned if we don't. Usually I hear criticism that the DE's aren't spending enough time in camp, and now I'm reading that they're spending too much time in camp. I've been in three councils now and I was a DE in camp, so perhaps I can shed some light on this. Actually, Eamonn, I think all day every day is too much time in camp for a DE. Having said that, let me tell you that in my current council, which operates a full-time Cub Scout camp and a full time Boy Scout Camp, all my DE's are in camp all day, every day. One is the Camp Director for the Cub Camp, and the LFL executive is the Program Director for the Cub Camp. One DE is the Camp Director for the Boy Scout Camp and the other DE is the Health Officer/ Assistant Camp Director for the Boy Scout Camp. We do this for several reasons -- 1) we save on camp staff salaries and it allows us to keep the costs down, 2) it's as close to being a Scout Executive as a DE can possibly get and a great career-building experience, 3) they're able to get to know their unit-level volunteers and parents far better during their time in camp than they ever would on a daily basis, 4) it's great exposure to the program for those that don't know the program on a personal level and a great refresher for those who do konw the program on a personal level and don't usually get to dive into it in the midst of FOS, membership and manpower recruiting. As to why a council would want it's DE's to spend time in camp when they're not on staff, it has to do with getting to know the parents and volunteers as well as a kind of quality control over the program. I don't know why Eamonn's DE has to go all day every day for two weeks unless she's on staff in some fashion. However, I think that DE's spending some time in camp has benefits for them and the folks in camp. If the only time someone sees their DE is when the DE is asking for something, it doesn't take long for anti-council/DE sentiment to rear it's ugly head. If they share a cup of coffee or some cobbler together, they're more likely to enjoy a good relationship. We have our Junior Leader Training Course going on next week. I'll drive the one hour (each way) on Monday, Wednesday and be there for the feast on Saturday -- so I can a) get to know the volunteers b) assure them that their program is important enough for me to spend some time with them c) charge my own batteries d) collect any bills or receipts for re-imbursement e) enjoy the outdoors. And I'm not even the staff advisor. I'm the Assistant Scout Executive. DS

Interesting question. I have to answer carfully, and don't usually do that, but here goes . . . I applaud the young lady's desire to start a family and she is an adult. I wish she were married -- it does make a difference to me. But she is 18 and can make her own choices and, indeed, has. I'm not saying the choice is right or wrong, only defending her right to do so. I can see some parents (who have a right to say their piece whether they're registered, or active or both) in who their son's and daughter's role models are) may have concerns about the effect of a young unmarried mother doing anything in the care of their sons. However, I agree with Bob. It's a chartered partner's decision -- regardless of whether it comes from the IH or COR whether the young woman should be an ASM or not. If they approve, so be it. The parents who want to disagree can find another unit for their sons. I hope I'm not breaking any forum political rules here -- if I am, I apologize to all, but I am proud of this young lady for wanting to take care of her unborn child and continue her involvement in whatever way she can to help young people. She is not, as far as anything I've read in this thread, in violation of the membership standards of the Boy Scouts of America and sounds like a very good leader. I would recommend that the chartered partner keep her, but don't have a voice in that matter. I just hope she'll turn out to be the good mom it sounds like she's aiming to be . . . and intent, in that matter, does count. My prayers to her and a salute . . . DS

The DE can help you find a chartered organization. Bob White is correct in all he has said. Matua -- keep on truckin' DS

Bob is correct, except that the chartered organization representative may multiple as the committee chairman as well as a member of committee. I don't think this should be the case, but it is acceptable by BSA rules. However, if the chartered partner has one or more charters, i.e., a pack, and troop, or the full family of Scouting, it is allowed only one chartered organization representative. It must be the same individual for each unit held by the chartered organization. Under no circumstances can the CC, COR and ASM (or as Bob points out, SM) be the same person. These rules can be found in short in the Registrar's Manual at your council service center, or with some digging, the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America. An abbreviated version -- help me out here, Bob, I don't have one with me -- can be found on the inside cover of the adult application. DS

To answer Eisely's question with a question. The question was about not wearing either sash over the belt. The return question is . . . if you had three special socks, would you wear one over your belt? Would a Boy Scout who is a Venturer wear two uniform shirts at the same time or tie one around his waist? The sashes are meant to be worn only over the right shoulder. Boys need to chose which to wear and when, I just ask that whichever they wear, they wear it properly.

Considered. Actually, more than considered. I'm planning to do a few blind calls as well as checking the pledge to cash ratio of the gifts in the pack. Someone had to have inside knowledge to approach this particular donor. I'll turn it over to the DA when I can feel good about getting what information I can. I'm not a trained investigator and don't plan to put myself in any danger, but I'm good and mad about this one. I also happen to have some investigative skills that most, including myself, under-estimate. This merits some looking around. If someone has been trading in on Scouting's good image in our communities, I want to make sure he's prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. If someone is scamming the BSA, I want the same thing. We'll see what happens. I'll keep you all posted. DS

Program Aide, as Twocubdad points out, is a different position than den chief or any other staff postition. The staff requirement is 14 years of age . . . no rank implied or required. The standard before that, I believe M44 says that all staff must be registered members of the BSA, but again no rank requirement.

Still working on this one. Here's what I know so far in addition to previously posted. The donor filled out a pledge card at a pack presentation for $100. The pledge card triggered the accounting department at the council office to send out a billing notice. His billing notice came back with a check for $100. No other payment has been made and credited to him. No, he's not registered to the unit. I called and spoke to him briefly. He confirmed that someone had come to his door and that he gave him $100. I asked if he knew the person. He said he didn't. Then he asked me to call him back later in the afternoon because he was on a conference call on the other line and didn't have time to talk. I haven't been able to reach him since. It's time to try a little harder. My Scout Executive thinks I should ask the donor if I can give his information to the District Attorney when I call. He thinks bad thoughts on occasion. I do, too, but I don't see any advantage this particular donor would have to lie about it. He's only getting one receipt from the council in the amount of $100. He's not even asking for a receipt from us for the "other" $100. DS

If the booko you were looking at had a rank requirement for camp staff, it wasn't printed by the BSA. Local council, maybe, but it wasn't an official BSA publication. DS

Training at Philmont is by invitation only. However, getting an invitation usually isn't that difficult. Express an interest to any professional in your council office. Once you're invited, you don't have to attend the course the nominator thought best suited to you. You should receive a course catalog -- or if not, there's at least one in your office-- and can request a change. If there's room in the course you'd like to take, you're in. Some of us also nominate volunteers to give them the honor of the personal invitation from the Chief Scout Executive. If you receive one and you're not interested or can't go, go ahead and throw it away. But please feel honored. It means that someone in your council office felt that you would represent the council well and be a source of pride to the rest of the country . . . DS

The only specific that comes to mind is that it is not acceptable for a Scout to wear his merit badge sash at the same time as the OA sash. Neither sash is to be worn over the belt. I don't think a kid with more brains than ego would wear his merit badge sash to the troop car wash, but there's nothing from national to prevent him from doing so if he wishes. DS

I agree with the previous posts. We also recruit Tiger Cubs in the spring in a program we call Tigermania. There's a sign-up event and the kids receive their registration as well as a raingutter regatta. Each district conducts four events for the new tigers over the summer that they can participate in with or without the support of their pack. Lots of groups (I'm thinking of things like soccer, etc.) sign up the new kids in the spring and begin programs very close to the beginning of the school year. If we don't do something, those new first graders will have booked schedules by the time fall rolls around. However, I tell my D.E.'s not to do spring recruiting if the pack doesn't do summer programming. A week is a long time to a cub aged boy, let alone a month or a summer. We owe it to the kids to make sure they get a program, even if occassional, over the summer. It does drive up the numbers. As long as program is there, I see nothing but good in that. If the kid gets a day camp experience, so much the better. DS