dsteele

The campfire is now lit. I can't make it tomorrow evening. Got company coming. But I'd love to chat with you in the next while . . . YIS, Dave

Welcome to the forums. I hope someone can help you. If not, I hope you stick around and enjoy this great resource. Dsteele

I once found myself as a Scoutmaster with only 4 active boys in the troop. One troop meeting I brought in two sewing machines and some fabric. We made some cool looking, black, blue and purple Irish Chain pillows. The boys loved the activity and those pillows kicked around on every camp out. Eventually, we got too big for that particular activity, but that was good, too. DS

You guys are going to think I'm sick (I'm sure some already do, due to my occupation ), but I've got some vacation time coming up two weeks from now and I think I'll actually start seriously developing a proposal for a sewing/tailoring merit badge. I'll run it up the flagpole here once I come up with a first draft of proposed requirements and the sewers in the group can help me. Everyone else can poke fun . . . DS

The hour is here. Is there anyone who would like to join me before the 4th of July weekend? I'll be there until about 11:30 CST. DS

OGE -- That's funny and a good use of the terms. I prefer a sharp or a between, myself. The wife does the needlepoint and the embroidery. Not a sexist statement, it's a matter of preference. I like it when she does the crewel work DS

A donor sent a check for $100 for FOS to the council office. He claimed he has also given to a man in uniform who came to his door. I pointed out that the person who came to his door was not collecting for the council. He didn't seem to care. Nice song, Eamonn.

There has been a bit more read into the scenario than what was there, including what I read. Actually it turned out that the donor was unwilling to go into much detail. He didn't know the solicitor. No one with the unit where the presentation was held knew anything about the donation. The Family FOS chairman did not collect door-to-door. All I can think of is that someone who was trying to get a popcorn order for our spring sale got a surprise $100 donation. The donor thought he was collecting on his pledge and when the notice came, he sent the council a second donation of $100. The police weren't interested in investigating. I have a feeling that was because no one else in the area claimed to have someone collecting donations for the Boy Scouts. There was a spring popcorn sale, however. Case is closed. DS

Laura -- You GO girl! Bob, PBBBBLT! Highly unprofessional, but fun sound. OGE -- Yes to tailoring. DS

I'm going in for a few minutes. Care to join me? DS

Bob: Thanks for the info. I was only going off someone's quote from Gregg Shields in another thread. I wasn't aware that there's a national organization of Wiccans. But please not that in my thread, them chartering a unit was contingent on their agreeing to follow the policies of the BSA. It wouldn't matter if any organization refused to uphold those policies, they wouldn't be a chartered partner. It doesn't matter if they worship God, a Supreme Being, or a ham sandwich. If they don't want to abide by BSA policies, there's no BSA charter. I think we agree. DS

Man of Steele is here, Eamonn. Actually, I know of no national prohibition to chartering units to druids or any other pagan organization as long as the organization agrees to uphold the policies of the Boy Scouts of America and the local council agrees to approve the charter application. I don't know anything about the spiral scouts and did appreciate learning more about it in the post from it's member on this thread. It sounds like the problem is a disagreement over the membership standards of the BSA and not a BSA policy of not accepting Wiccans. There is no religious award, most probably because there's no national organization of Wiccans. The other religious awards are backed by the respective churches, and only used by the BSA. Look at P.R.A.Y's website for more information. In a related real-life example, I once was part of organizing a pack and troop chartered to the Saginaw-Chippewa Tribe on the reservation. They're number one concern was that we were going to try to push Christianity on them. They worship earth and spirits. Completely acceptable. The BSA has several workshops each year on Native American Scouting. Having said that, Eamonn -- I don't know how long the BSA would maintain your registration if you began sacrificing small animals to ward off rain at the camporee But we would probably say nothing of you gathering mistletoe by the light of a full moon with a sickle. We'd be asleep and wouldn't care. Unless you wanted to kiss us under it . . . DS

Sorry -- I almost missed this one. I can answer best privately and from the office. The answer to the responsibility question is basically to select the leaders, provide a meeting place and abide by the programs and policies of the Boy Scouts of America. DS

Suzie: Welcome to the forums! I agree completely with your post. I think the young woman in question has a lot to learn from socuting and we, in turn, from her. DS

Me. In my spare time. Tailor, seamster, tinkerer. A life-long hobby. I leave the wood working to my wife. My Bernina sewing machine hates her, but works very well for me. I think I have a merit badge pamphlet or two to write. Bob, the above post really didn't have anything to do with you. Your answers are good. I do know however, that I've asked about this topic among the professional group at national and the response I've been given as to why there isn't a sewing merit badge is "no one has written it and presented it." So I guess I need to write it and propose it to whichever committee it falls under. DS

While Bob's away, I'll respond to the hot button of mine that he pushed while I was 300 miles away helping get my council's camp through inspection. Bob,(I luv ya too, man) if you don't believe sewing (and I mean more than placing badges on a shirt) is not important, please take off all your clothes and go stand in a corner. Would you want to use a parachute made by someone with no training? Sail a boat anywhere that was made by someone who met the requirement for their wolf badge? Are your tent, rain fly, sleeping bag and stuff sack sewn? I remember when I was a kid, everyone had a bike. We rode them a lot. But most of us never earned bicycling merit badge. Why? Because it was hard! There was a whole lot more to it than most of us needed or wanted to know. But for some it ignited new realms of possibility. Sounds good to me! Tailoring would be equally tough. Do you know how to make a double-welt pocket and have them be even on both sides of the back of your trousers? Do you know how to make a pair of trousers that don't cut you in half because no one (male or female) is shaped like a perfect V? That's a big part of tailoring. As for textiles -- few take it, but it's a huge industry. Textiles has to do with the manufacturing and composition of fabric. It's also not an easy merit badge. I'll admit I'm a little biased (also a sewing term for those in the know I've made several dresses for my wife, some trousers for myself, and several (meaning more than 20) full to king sized quilts. One quilt involved over 14,000 one inch square pieces all sewin together by hand. If someone asks me for a pair of scissors I ask them what they're planing to cut. If it's paper, they get the left or right handed cheap scissors from the drawer in the kitchen. If it's fabric, I need to know what they're doing -- do they need applique scissors, bent-handled dressmakers, pinking shears, thread snips, or something else. If you don't know what any of those terms I used are, then sewing merit badge would have helped. Some may ask why a Scout would need to know what pinking shears are. Well, if you're ever a leader at a district event and have to cut off the troop flag ribbons at a certain level and don't want them to fray . . . you need the zig-zaggy scissor things -- called pinking shears. Now that I'm done venting, I'm going upstairs to look at the swatches I ordered and figure out what my summer sewing project is going to be . . . DS (laughingly.)

I'll give the technical answers to the minimum requirements to start a pack and a troop. A lot of the responses I'm seeing build in this thread are volunteers who are telling you some of the realities of what can occur after the paperwork and fees are sent to the council office and you're chartered. Pack minimums: One Chartered Organization One Chartered Organization Representative -- must be the same invdividual for all units of the same chartered organization. One Committee Chairman (may multiple as the Chartered organization Representative. Two Committee Members (Charter Rep. may multiple as a committee member or committee chair, but not both) One Cubmaster And the ifs . . . If there is one or more Tiger Cub, there must be a Tiger Cub Den Leader. If there is one or more Cub Scout (wolf or bear age) there must be a Den Leader. If there is one or more Webelos (4th or 5th grader) there must be a Webelos Leader. If there's only one program/age group, you only need a den leader for that group. There must be 5 paid youth. So, theoretically, you can start a pack with 5 adults. Minimum requirements to start a troop: One chartered organization One Chartered Organization Representative (again with the can also be CC or MC thing.) One Committee Chairman Two Committee Members One Scoutmaster 5 youth -- minimum of 3 paid as new and two or more can be transfers from a pack.) Now, since you would like to charter a pack and a troop at the same time, I will tell you that I've assisted with doing just that several times. The committee folks (CC, CR, and MC's) can be the same committee for both groups. That means you can start a pack and a troop at the same time with: One chartered organization One Chartered Organization Representative One Committee Chairman Two Committee Members One Cubmaster One Scoutmaster -- who could be the same person, I suppose as the Cubmaster, but only if he/she is a masocist and you wish to help them die And the necessary "ifs" depending on the age of your required 5 Cub Scouts and 5 Boy Scouts. So the minimum requirement in terms of number of adults to start a pack and troop at the same time is (I wasn't a math major) 5. In response to the person who chartered a unit with only 2 adults and three boys, my guess is that is the reality. There were probably two adults dedicated to doing the work and three others who signed on to help get the paperwork in. It happens, but it's not supposed to work that way. As to starting with three boys, it can be done with a letter from the Scout Executive, but it's more likely that a couple of boys who weren't really all that excited about the idea (or who's excitement wore off before the first meeting and never showed) signed up. DS

Jeez -- I go off to do camp inspection and come back twenty-four hours later and we've got a lot of responses here! Anyway, I'd like to address the point about the SE and professional staffs not being investigators. We're not. Our job is to report suspected abuse to the authorities. If there's to be an investigation, the police or social service folks handle it. They're far better trained to do that kind of thing. In this particular case, it sounds like the young man hasn't violated any laws. If someone files sexual harrassment charges, that may change. Ox raised the question of what can the SE do if the police won't do anything about this legal activity. The Scout Executive isn't (as I tried to say earlier) responsible for the legal action taken or not taken. He is responsible for upholding the membership standards of the Boy Scouts of America. He can pull the registration of this young man. In this particular case, as a camp staff member, the young man is an employee (although a seasonal one) of the council. The SE can decide to fire him, or the Camp Director can decide to fire him. The Scout Executive is very correct to err on the side of caution. The BSA has made it clear (at least verbally to me) that if we're going to make a mistake, we're going to make it in the favor of a youth. There is an appeals process. I also believe it is far better to remove someone's registration immediately than allow them to work with youth while some poor DE conducts his/her version of an investigation. DS

Thanks all for the support of the sewing/tailoring merit badges. Now please indulge me by going into a little discovery channel bit of the differences between the two: Sewing is making seams that are pretty flat. It's an assembly process. It's important in putting badges onto fabric, sticthing two or more pieces together, etc. Ladies were most often seamstresses. Sewn garments include most ladies dresses, napkins, handkerchiefs, skirts, etc. A tailored garment is much more complicated. These are more like sculptures. Try to get a man's (or woman's) suit jacket or blazer to lie flat. They don't. There's shaping and 3-dimensional seams. Tailors know how to mark suits and make the alterations. Seamstresses (or seamsters) hem them up. That's why you find tailors in fine menswear stores and alterationists or seamsters or seamstresses at the medium stores, and people who don't know what you're talking about in stores that let you walk out with the label still sewn on the seam. So now, I guess I'm proposing two merit badges -- Sewing (I like the enhanced idea to include laundry and cleaning) we'll need a different name. How about "Laundry" that could cover all aspects: minor repair of garments, washing, drying, ironing, basic fabric content, etc. And then the mighty, noble, honored tailoring -- making a garment, altering an existing garment, a tour through a fabric store, interviewing a tailor, or a 4 hour observation of one at work . . . Now we're sewing with thread DS

Ox: The tone in this thread has become increasingly more alarmed. The answer is correct -- your Scout Executive needs to be informed of the behavior. Some of the emotion you're hearing from the posters in this thread have to do with today's AP story of police abusing youth through Law Enforcement Exploring programs. The same thing applies, an adult in a position of authority having inappropriate contact with youth. It's abuse. I don't care if the offending volunteer is 21 or 91 and the girl is 16 or 8. It is against the policies of the Boy Scouts of America (and Learning for Life, the subsidiary) to have inappropriate contact with a youth member. I don't expect you to drop everything and drive to the Scout Executive. Don't drive to the office (45 minutes each way) without an appointment. They may be having a staff meeting, the Scout Executive could be at camp, anything could be going on and you'd have no one to talk to. Call the office and tell the person that you'd like to speak to the Scout Executive about a possible youth protection matter. If the Scout Executive is not available, ask for another professional. Believe me, the clerical staff (who generally answer the phone) will find you someone. At the moment, I'm not talking about the legal issues. I'm talking about the BSA doing its best to protect youth from abuse by adults. Even if what's going on is okay (or at least not illegal) to your department, it may be a serious violation of BSA policies -- it sure sonds like it to me. The police department isn't there to decide if someone is a fit leader with the Boy Scouts of America. The Boy Scouts of America is there for that purpose. Conversely, if the police department has a problem with an individual, they don't need the BSA's permission to handle it. Please call your Scout office tomorrow. I shudder to think what may be going on under the auspices of Scouting until that call is made. Dave

KWC -- Great segway to what I had in mind. My proudest moment in Scouting came to me when I was a Scout. With my father's hand on my shoulder, we walked into a dark southwestern Michigan night. I knew the path well. Three times in the darkness I turned to him and asked him a ritual question. He answered correctly each time. In the night, I and others asked him questions as he tended a fire. Alone and in deep thought. In the morning I looked him in the eye and asked him a final question. And then he was able to join me in the Vigil Honor of the Order of the Arrow. For a change, I had been HIS guide. It was also cool that I was the Chief of the Fire as well as his Vigil Guide that night. I don't think he's worried about me ever since. In a way, his vigil was, to me, the passage into manhood. To him, I think his vigil was an awakening that his son was fully "hatched" and ready to make his way in the world. It was a pivital experience for both of us. I love my Dad. Thanks for the memory. May you be able to benefit from the experince of your son and may your son benefit from leading you for a change . . . Have a nice evening. I'm going to dream of his fire and mine . . . from different perspectives. DS

Where is everyone? Hey, Bobwhite. We're in the chatroom. Anyone else care to join us? DS

We're there! Come on in. DS

OX -- Number one in your question is the wrong answer. Number two, as several have already pointed out is the correct answer. Go to the Scout Executive. Number four really isn't an option. You'll also need to do the cop stuff, but you're far better qualified than I to know what that is. DS

Saltheart -- BOY DID YOU HIT A NERVE WITH ME !!!! It's a good nerve, so relax. I've wanted to create the Sewing Merit Badge for years, but just haven't had a chance to do it. When I was a kid, my mother quickly tired of sewing my badges on my uniform. It became a weekly project. So she taught me how to do it. I think we need a sewing merit badge, but for the sake of manly pride in young men, it should not be as easy as sewing on a new patch. I've taught myself how to sew and make quilts by hand for recreation and have made many of my wife's outfits and some of my own. Here are some of my proposed elements for the sewing merit badge I'd like to see: a) they should learn something about the history of fabric arts and sewing. b) they need to know the basic elements of hand-sewing. c) they need to know fabrics and their uses d) they need to create a garment for themselves or another e) They need to know how to buy fabrics, patterns and notions without looking like a fool. Stuff like that. It shouldn't be an easy badge. It also shouldn't be learned at summer camp. Has anyone looked at the requirements for Textiles Merit Badge lately? That one isn't easy either. But I have to admit that there's something to be said for the little feeling of glee I had when my wife saw me sorting through the ironing basket for the first time (I do the ironing around here.) She asked what my three piles were. I said 100% cotton, poly/cotton, and 100% poly. I listed them in reverse order according to ironing temperature. She said, "You're not even looking at the tags. How can you tell?" I was surprised by the question. She was surprised by the answer. The answer was "by feel." DS