dsteele

You're on the right track. And now, to delve into the truly arcane -- notice that the Unit Commissioner position patch, the District Executive patch, and the Scout Executive patch have silver olive wreaths and lettering while the ADC and Roundtable commissioners and Senior DE, Council Executive staff, etc. have gold. The silver stands for direct service and the gold is support. Just a bit of patch trivia on a July day. Enjoy! DS

Mark: If by the central question, you meant the original one that started the thread, I have now read it and believe I understand. I don't have the answer in front of me, but the driving and driver qualifiacations are on the Tour Permit. They are very clear. If you chose to not register the 18 year old and he drives another, they are under whatever coverage your personal insurance or the dirver has. It would be outside BSA coverage. Basically if you want BSA coverage you have to follow BSA rules. However, I'm on vacation and don't happen to have Tour Permits on file at home. So I'm not sure off hand what those rules specifically are. Sorry I wasn't able to be of more assistance. Dave

Cub Scouts won't have a problem. They'll have to get the free tickets like everyone else. My melancholy stems from the lost ability to just walk up to the building and touch it. Nevermind other historical markers. This one is special because the Declaration of Independance and our Constitution were voted into effect there. If they are not free from security, then security itself has taken a "ding." It isn't right IMHO. DS

I have to confess that I haven't read this thread in its entirety. I did happen to see a question directed at me regarding the registration process for merit badge counselors. Merit Badge counselor registration is different from all other adult registrations only in that they do not pay a fee. The application must be filled out and they are subjected to the same criminal background checks (as of 4/1/2003 as are all other adults.) They are also checked against the BSA's ineligible volunteer file (there is such a thing) and if found unacceptable . . . rejected. They are also supposed to be approved by the district advancement committee. At least they are in the council I currently serve.

No. Things would have remained the same. The protestors might have changed, but the BSA position would have remained the same. DS

I think Brown's story is sad. He is a strong young man. I also think it's sad that the cradle of liberty -- the home of American Independance is covered by thick security. I think we should leave it alone. If someone blows it up, I say stay out of the way of those of us who will tear the terrorist from limb to limb. This opinion does not reflect the opinion of the BSA. It is mine alone and has no standing with the national office. DS

Eamonn: (for I know that's who you really are.) I'm glad someone gave you some cheese made in Wisconsin. It really is very good. But I'm not sure Italian cheese from Wisconsin is our best foot forward. Most Wisconsinites would call it Eye-talian cheese. And if you can't pronounce it, in my humble opinion, you've got no business making it. Call me, Eamonn. I can't find your phone numbers without going to the office and I'm on vacation, so I'm not about to do that. DS

Funny story: Usually I'm at the Executive Board meetings, helping out as the Assistant Scout Executive. In January, I missed the meeting because I was at our staff planning conference some distance away. The Scout Executive had his secretary handle the registration and take notes. They opened, as we usually do, with a grace. Someone started to lead the Philmont Grace . . . and couldn't remember it. Neither could anyone else. 25 people at a Boy Scout Executive board meeting and not one could remember the Philmont Grace. They fudged their way through it, but it was the first question I got when I returned from the staff conference. Now we print it on the back of the packet in case I get hit by a truck and miss another meeting. DS

I enjoyed the visit. The hotel was wonderful. However, I do have to admit I was saddened to see high security surrounding Independance Hall. You can't walk up to the place and touch the brick like I did in August of 2001. There are armed men there who will shoot you if you don't have a ticket. Very sad. Makes me even more angry with the terrorists. DS

Fat Old Guy, Mark, did indeed call himself Al Lundy. The name is not a coincidence, but I can't elaborate. The name soon changed to something else and eventually landed on Fat Old Guy. I was one, if not the, first, who called him FOG because I find it dis-tastefull to call anyone a fat anything. I'm not into name-calling. DS

I was in the second class of reagan scholars and the recipient of the Reagan Scholarship (admittedly a contradicion in terms) but it was full tuition at Eureka College for four years. Apply on-line at www.eureka.edu and good luck. Being an Eagle Scout is a huge help. It's what got it for me. You'll find my name on the site as a Reagan Alum. DS

I'm baaaaack! Thanks for the kind words, all. I wasn't attacked directly, a friend of mine on the forums was. And when a friend is attacked, I figure it might as well have been an attack on me. Look at point three of the Scout Law. Thanks for the affirmations. I will continue to post and be as straight forward as I can be. Eamonn -- I thought of you as I flew over Western Penn. this afternoon. Let's talk soon. It sounds like you've got something on your mind. Dave

Congrats to all. Rooster's sons will never know how many people had a hand in his earning of the award. But I'm sure all of us who have earned it know it extended far beyond our troop -- the chartered organization provided support, the district committee, the commissioners, and on and on. But the young man earned the award. He should be showered in glory enough to illuminate his parents as well. Fantastic! DS

I've read many of the threads on this forum and just wanted to say thanks for putting up with me. Those of you who follow these forums closely will note that I joined quite a while before I started posting. There's a reason. The reason is that I detected a certain anti-professional scouter bent on many of the threads and didn't want to subject myself to a bunch of antagonism generated by "bad" profesionals. I would just like to say thank you for the warm welcome I have received here. I feel like a member of the campfire. Many of you have thanked me and given me compliments and I appreciate them. Others are skeptical, and I don't blame them. Some are silent, and that's a choice. Perhaps they resent my presence. Perhaps they're intimidated (I hope not.) I'm not saying good-bye. That's not my intent. I want to thank you all for taking my advice for what it's worth because I don't know your council's situation and will always refer you to your local council when needed. However, I will not continue to use my personal time to post on these threads if personal attacks continue. It is against the Scout Law as Terry pointed out. Personal attacks are out of line on these boards. My patience for these is gone. This is the same reason I no longer even look at a similar forum on another web site. If you want to grouse about professionals, go ahead. I can deal with it. If you want to engage in name-calling, playing the identity game, and other crud, I don't have time to bother. I'll now step away from the dais and continue with life. which, for me, is a few vacation days starting at the conclusion of tomorrow. Goodnight all. DS

First of all -- thank you Scouter Terry for these forums and the work it must take to moderate them. I find them to be excellent and woulndn't spend a second of my time on them if I didn't. Please take that as a compliment to all involved. My time is very precious to me. As eveyone else's is to them. To the others who have posted in this thread -- is there guilt on your conscience? I would hope not. I think you have acted according to the Scout Oath and Law in my mind. You have fun and sometimes disagree with others, but are as a lot, trustworthy, loyal . . . and the rest. I'm glad you all post here. And hope you're equally as glad that I do. Don't bother to return the compliment. Just nod at your monitor, say thank you and move on with life. Have a pleasant week. DS

Sorry -- I wasn't looking at my confirmation and got the hotel name wrong. I'll be at the Crowne Plaza Philadelphia Center-City on Market Street. Not far from the locaiton of the BSA National Meeting. Across the street, in fact. DS

I'm off on a little sojourn and would love to meet any forum member in person. From Saturday afternoon to Monday morning, I'll be in Philadelphia taking in the historical sights -- and most importantly to me, the new Constitution Museum. If you'd like to reach me I'll be at the Royal Crown Central City hotel in downtown Philadelphia from Saturday late afternoon to monday morning. I signed up for one of those last minute deals and got a great price. If no one calls, fine. If someone wants to meet, fine as well. I'm going while my wife hikes the A.T. and have no plans other than to hit the Constitutional Museum and see Independence Hall. Just give your username if you get my hotel voice mail. And you probably will. I'm a social kind of guy and will probably be out seeing the sights. And just so no one mis-understands -- just because I'll be travelling by myself and staying in a very nice hotel, I'm not looking for a room-mate. But if someone wants to talk and give a face to a username . . . i'm all for it. Just stay out of my room. DS (This message has been edited by dsteele)

Thanks, CubsRgr8 for the backup on the cd and the number. I wrote about it on the fly on my way out of the office to our Boy Scout camp 250 miles north of the office. Was out for a couple of days and just got back this evening. I'm off again on vacation starting Friday evening and will be back in the office on the 20th. I hope everyone stays calm (referring to another thread) until I get back. I'll probably post early sometime next week, but I'm not sure when. The CD's are cool. DS

For the past nearly five months I have been faithful to these forums and only missed one day, including weekends. So I go away for a couple of days and all of a sudden something has happened and Bob White is out? Would someone please fill me in? I'm going to activate the chat room. I know it's late on a Thursday evening, but if you'd like to join in, I'd appreciate a briefing. As I wait to see if I hear a chime, I'm going to run a couple of searches to see if I can figure it out for myself. I, too, count Bob White as a friend. Proudly. Dave Steele

neicie -- thanks for trying to bring us back on track. I want to learn more. I had hoped we would discuss Spiralscouts. DS

The only hard and fast rules I'm aware of concerning den size are only slightly related. The reference is in the Registrar's manual. The rule is if there is a Cub Scout age (Wolf or Bear) boy in the pack, there must be a registered den leader. If there is a Tiger Cub, there must be a Tiger Den Leader. If there is a Webelos (whether he's first year or second year) there has to be a registered Webelos Leader. The guideline for Den size that I was trained to tout is generally 6 boys -- which leaves room to recruit two more to "fill" the den. I think that's a good size. However, there isn't a rule that says you can't have more than 8. I think we're trying to avoid having packs turn away boys because of a lack of den leaders. I hope I didn't muddy things up too much. DS

In addition to the pictures -- which work really well, especially if the students see pictures of their friends doing fun stuff. I also highly recommend a uniform and Pinewood Derby car, etc. Now, if your pack has some extra money . . . the BSA has a great CD designed to be given away at things like open house. The boys play some Cub games and at the end can print out a certificate of completion to bring to the school night. There is also information for parents and a council locator. I'd love to give them away in droves to the packs, but they cost about 55 cents each and that adds up quickly for councils. Your pack may be able to order some, however. Try to go through your district executive. I don't think the Scout Shop will know about them. Good luck. Congrats on getting an early start. DS

I'm glad I'm not a buyer from natinoal supply (actually, I haven't screwed up badly enough for that . . . yet.) If they offer Scout hats and sell them cheaply, they get busted over the chops for a lack of quality. If they buy quality caps and charge a premium, they get busted over the chops for charging too much. Buy foriegn and the union workers crush them. Buy domestic and they get kicked for price. Buy nothing and they're depriving the kids of another way of displaying their rank. I'm going to stay out of that argument. I don't have a vote in which items are uniform and which are not. However, I can tell you, from years of pouring over scout shop invoices and profit margins, that the BSA doesn't make much money (and when you factor in the manpower of running a Scout Shop, none at all) on the uniform pieces-parts. Folding cups, toothbrushes, pocket knives, etc., yes, there's money there. But for the necessary program stuff like uniforms and books . . . it's the best quality at break-even prices. DS

Eamonn: I'm not sure there is a good time to recruit Boy Scout age youth. However, I'm sure that national has sent one cd per troop to your council in the shape of a Boy Scout packpack. They are excellent and made to be copied by each troop. They contain scenes that allow 11-12 year old Scouts to give to their friends that show the BSA in action and allow the kids to make their own movies from their favorite scenes to email to their friends. They're a great tool that can be used for recrutiing. If your Field Director can't provide them for you, have him check around the office. I've found that not everything sent to me makes it to me in a timely manner. If he still can't find them, give me a call and I'll send you one or give you the number. DS

Other than an incomplete thought, I have found nothing wrong with Jerry's post. I think it's bad when we Scouters use abbreviations not necessarily understood by the rest of the world, but I can't find anything wrong with the post. So pbblt! And Eamonn, I almost needed your help in translating the last Harry Potter novel. It was much more British than the rest. DS