dsteele

I'll attempt to illuminate the registration thing . . . In order to be a Tiger Cub, Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, Venturer, unit leader, district leader, council leader, national leader (I give these adult positions in reverse order), you pay a registration fee to join The Boy Scouts of America. The Boy Scouts of America is the organization to which registered folk belong . . . which program makes no difference and it's easy to help in one form or another without having to stick to walls that don't exist. Clearer? Or muddier? Let me try one more time -- You're either a member of the BSA, or you aren't. You aren't a registered Cub Scouter, Boy Scouter, or Venturer. Those are positions. If a golfer is on the ninth hole and is a member of the course, he doesn't call himself a "ninth-holer." He may be a member of the Country Club . . . but it doesn't matter which hole he's on. DS

Sometimes knowledge of the arcane and archaic is a hinderance, sometimes it is a help. It's been a while since I last heard about it, but there is a position for females younger than the age of 18 to be at least affiliated with a pack. I don't recall whether it was a registered position or not. It's called Den Aide and was specifically created to give young ladies the opportunities to help out in den meetings. It's very similar to a Den Chief, but the exception is, since, as many have ponited out the gal can not have been a Boy Scout, she can not fill the role of encouraging the Cubs to go on to Boy Scouting through her knowledge of Boy Scouting. She can be a great role model. The duties were very similar. You can ask your DE about this position, but he/she may have to reach very far into their resources to find it. It's a fairly unusual position. Hope this helps. PS -- as a registered Venturer, Crewgirl1024, you can help the pack in any way you would like, short of holding some of the official positions, as long as it is okay with the pack. You have been cleared as a member of the BSA. DS

I don't know if I can help you down, Bob. I'm only five feet and six inches tall. You're up there a way, pal! I have said it many times and will say it again. Advancement is a method used in the programs offered in tradtional scouting. It is a means to the end of helping instill values in young people . . . the values we seek to instill are found in the Scout Oath and Law. I'm not a big fan of merit badge colleges, nor am I entirely opposed to them. I'm for earning some merit badges at summer camp, but not at the cost of quality. By quality I mean, is it assisting in the young man's path to learning to be trustworthy, etc.? If it isn't somehow building those values, then we're way off base. Aren't you all glad I only took one philosophy course in college? DS

Hello . . . I know it's getting late, but the fire is still lit. Come on in . . . DS

Sagerscout. Thanks for the compliment and the reminder. I did manage to float once. But not for long. I don't think I ever quite got the technique or the neck flexibility. As to Man of Steele, I don't think I deserve the title. The man I said I pulled out of the river actually pushed me under the water and pushed off my back. I was scared as all get out. I dont' know how I got out of the undercurrent that pushed me against the rock. I really don't remember. The good news is that we made it out. Unless I'm actually the inspiration for The Sixth Sense Movie . . . DS

When I joined the Scouts (in the Seventies) there were time requirements between all ranks. It may have been an attempt to discourage young Eagles, or to more fully develop leadership. I don't know. I was a kid at the time. There was a minimum one month tenure as a Scout to earn Tenderfoot. There was a two month minimum to go from Tenderfoot to Second Class. There was a minimum three months from Second Class to First Class. Four between First Class and Eagle. Six between Eagle and Life. Six between Life and Eagle. And still I earned Eagle just shy of my 14th birthday -- it was awarded when I was 13. I pushed hard. Eagle was my goal. Those months of waiting between fulfilling requirements were tortuous. I used to fall asleep just dreaming of the distant time in the future when I could go through my board of review and get to the next rung. There's no need for that now. The early parts of Scouting's path are about Scouting skills -- tenderfoot, second class, first class. Becomming a Scout. I think the higher ranks have tenure requirements because of a subtle shift from basic scoutcraft to leadership -- something that takes time and a minimum of practice. Just a couple of cents from an old Eagle and a fairly young guy. DS

So the boys grow into men. I'm glad you're there to watch it happen and still allow it to proceed at it's own pace. I think I came to appreciate that one mother's day when I made my mother a quilt hoop with a poem that thanked her for letting me go and grow. Scout Camp when I was 11, staff at 14, college at 18. By age 19, I had an Amtrak pass and was touring the country meeting with authors such as Clive Cussler, Terry Brooks, and Stephen R. Donaldson. At 20 I was sitting on a mountaintop in Peru, staring in wonder, by myself, as a herd of wild horses rode by my tent. Without my parents and their ability to train and trust me, and a litle help by a bunch of BSA folk, it never would have happened that way. I guess having been born with a club foot and suffering from Grand Mal Seizures during epilepsy as a child wasn't such a bad thing with proper upbringing. I made it through it. I'm glad you were both able to be close, yet not performing for your sons during those important summer camp times. It means a lot to them and I'm sure, means a lot to you. DS

This thread strikes close to home for me personally. My first summer at camp, I wasn't a strong swimmer. Never have been actually, but I have sinced learned to manage well enough. As I struggled my un-trained little body through the 75 yards, I heard the lifeguard say, "he isn't going to make it." I was so young I believed him and gave up. The next year, I was elected patrol leader and thought there is no way I'm not going to be a swimmer. I imagined that swim test time and again in my mind as I lay in bed. I wasn't going to give up, no matter what. Well I still have only about 3-5% body fat. I float about three inches under the water. That was, at the time at least, part of the test. Luckily a lifeguard took mercy on me and let me tread water for quite a while. I could do that. Anyhow, I passed the swim test for the first time in 1978. In 1987, I pulled a man who outweighed me by 60 pounds out of a raging river in the Cusichaca River Valley in Peru. I still hate to swim, but I'm glad my Boy Scout training was able to save the man. DS

The campfire is lit. I'll be here for a little while, but not a long time. It was not such a good day for me at the Scout office. I had it coming. It's amazing the loose ends you didn't realize you had that come out while you're out. I'm not perfect, but can admit it when I screw up. Maybe that's why I didn't sleep well on the eve of my return from a one week vacation. DS

In a few moments, the campfire will be lit. I'll keep it lit until about 10:00 PM Central Time. After that, others may linger, but I'm going to bed. DS

Bob is correct in saying that the chartered organization can demand that all funds be run through their account. This is not necessarily a bad thing. The troop and pack are part of the chartered organization and the fact that they care enough to take fiscal responsibility is, IMHO a good thing. My guess is that your pack or troop is using the chartered partner's 501 © 3 (non profit) number in its purchashes and their auditors are doing their duty in making sure that the pack and troop are following the IRS rules. Having said that, my advice is to go with the wishes of the chartered partner, but have clear (preferrably written) instructions as to how the unit gets funds from the account, what is permitted, when requests have to be filed prior to payment, who is able to draw, budget etc. It is possible that Fat Old Guy is on to something supsicious, but I think the auditors of your charter partner are more concerned with the 501 © (3) rules. I think a few politely worded questions about your chartered organization's financial practices would not be out of line. Perhaps you should look at a copy of their audit and management letter from their auditing agency. DS

Eamonn: I can hear you now. I could hear you then. I was, at the time, a Sprint man. Now I use a council provided U.S. Cellular line and the Scout Executive never calls me on it to yell at me. Which is a pleasant change, BTW. DS

I guess I should have left the Lemmings alone, but for the sake of sanity, let me point out that Eamonn brought it up As to professional scouters and McDonalds, I don't know. The only time I go to McDonalds is to pick up breakfast for the secretaries in our office. I'm more prone to restaurants that serve me meals at my table on a plate and I use a knife and fork to eat. I'm not above going to McDonalds, but I prefer to eat my lunch in a place with flatware. As to ID -- I'll have to admit that I'm sensitive to it. Two years ago, I opened my Visa bill and $3,000 had been charged to Verizon Wireless. I had nothing to do with Verizon. Never had. With some explaining, fortunately, the credit card company removed the charges. About three weeks later, I got a notice from Verizon thanking me for my new account and giving me the phone number for my new pre-paid cellular phone. The only problem was, I didn't have one of those. I called the number, but the account had already been transferred to someone else. It was a major hassel to clean it all up. I had to get my credit card re-issued, put a lock on my credit and my wifes that makes us ineligible for "instant" credit (one of us has to be home to accept the loan by phone) and to futz around with the credit reporting agencies to make sure everything was clean. Eamonn, dear lad, I'm venting about the situation and making a point that we all need to keep an eye out for our good names. It's clear to me that our friend explained his situation to you and that you understand, but I'm just trying to make the point that any sort of identity theft, even if not fiscal in nature, can cause a great deal of harm in a short period of time. Anyhow, thanks for listening, all. DS

I'm about to give some of my personal philosophy, and not a standard BSA professional's answer -- although I'm not sure it makes a difference. I also welcome you to this electronic campfire. Come on in, the water's fine! I think that as a summer camp Scoutmaster your job is to make sure that you return from camp with the same boys you left with. It's not your job to make sure they earn badges or that every minute of their time is occupied with Scouting stuff. They are Boy Scouts and should be responsible for their own time at summer camp. Sure, if the camp has a schedule of classes, you may want to nudge them to make sure they go, but if they don't it's on their heads, not yours. I think it's just fine if the kid wants to pitter and plink his week away. But I always made sure it was the kid who had to answer when his parents wondered why he didn't earn any badges (or very few) during the week. Then I would try to catch the parent alone and point out that the week wasn't about earning badges . . . it was about being a Scout and that their son learned a lot. DS

Matua gives good advice, Laura. I think you've taken the right steps. I really can't blame you for losing it, but you can't take it back now. Folks will move on in time. DS

Willysjeep: Actually, I remember looking at adult knots as a boy and looking forward to the day I could wear them (and earn them in most cases.) I had a healthy respect for the adults and knew that the red white and blue knot was Eagle and knew many of the others . . . because I asked. I, like you, worked hard for my Eagle Scout patch and wore it proudly until I became 18. Then I realized that the award shined through my actions and that a knot is enough. I think the award itself belongs on a boy's shirt. Let the adult wear the knot as a reminder to himself to act like an Eagle Scout. Perhaps, back in the day, adults were allowed to earn rank and merit badges. But that was back in the day. Personally, I like the old story -- and it if ain't true, it oughta be -- that when asked where to wear a patch on his uniform, BP replied, "On the shirt of a boy." If it ain't true, it oughta be. But that's just my two cents. I'm a minimalist when it comes to awards. DS

Eamonn: I hope I'm smart enough to let us all know if I think we're collectively heading for a cliff. Even if I'm not, I'll be the guy at the back who's late because he stopped for an Egg McMuffin! DS

Onehour: As you can see, Bob White and I are not saying so long. We (and I hope ya don't mind, Bob, but I'm speaking for you here) appreciate your contributions to these forums and the fact that you ask questions others are afraid to ask. I'm not sure what's causing you to step away from your unit, but you are a trained leader in the BSA. There are other areas you could help. Perhaps some portion of the district committee could use you. What do you like? There's a membership committee, a camping committee, an advancement committee, etc. Or perhaps your idealism could be used in the role of a Unit Commissioner tending to one of the weaker packs, troops, or crews in the district. There's no need to ride off into the sunset. Find a niche that fits. Talk to your District chairman, Commissioner, or District Executive. DS

Interesting that an Austrailian would ask of formality from Americans on a post started by an Englishman. Wow, I digress before I even begin. Actually, Ozemu, it is an interesting question. The answer is no, we really aren't that title oriented or class-conscienced. At least not on the surface. I think a lot of American formality depends on the person more than the position. I have no doubt in my mind that President Bush wouldn't mind it a bit if I said, "Hey George!" But his protocol officer and secret service detail would be reaching for their weapons. I usually refer to doctors and pastors by their first names and actually have a problem if they have a problem with it. Most don't. However, some Americans feel uncomfortable doing so and prefer the distance offered in the honorific. This is coming from a died-in-the-wool republican, so don't think of it as a partisan thing, but my personal view is that if you need a title to justify respect, none is deserved. I certainly don't expect district executives and volunteers to refer to me as Assistant Scout Executive Steele. I'd rather just be Dave and let my knowledge and position assist you. However, as in all things American, I'm sure there are those who will disagree with me and say that formality is very much a part of our culture. Which will give the French something else to laugh at DS

Sad to say, but I packed better as a Scout on Ritalin than as a professional Scouter not on Ritalin . . . I had the honor in (I think) 1993 of serving on the staff of Akela Calls which was a kind of Regional Pow Wow held at Western Illinois University. When I got there and put on my uniform to go to dinner I discovered I had left my BSA web belt at home. I was embarrassed the whole evening and quickly found the nearest Scout Shop in the morning and bought two more. DS However, I can tell you that as a kid I rarely forgot to bring anything. Usually I forgot to bring stuff back home . . . DS

It sounds like charm school didn't "take" the first time with your Field Director. I won't take the second time. No, you can't send him back. PS -- I'll be your new phone buddy. Call me anytime. DS

First of all a truly sincere congrats to Matua! It is indeed an honor to staff a Wood Badge Course. I've done it three times more than I wanted to. As to Padre, I've seen many divorces in which one partner's involvement in some aspect of Scouting got out of hand in terms of the relationship. Please don't blame the program. As others have pointed out, it could easily have been many other things. I really wish I could help you more, but my expertise is in Scouting, not marriage. I hope all turns out well for your family, yourself and your wife. Wood Badge can engulf all someone throws into it, but only what someone throws into it. It will go on without me, Eamonn, Bob, or anyone else. Conversely, it will thrive with our efforts or in spite of us. I truly wish I could help you. But please don't blame this training course. No one is seeking to tear apart families in teaching it. It should have the opposite effect. DS

I don't like the term, charm school for professional development level one, but I know it's used. So, in light of the interest some folks have in training, I figured I would give those who care about such things the "skinny" on what is taught to our DEs within (usually) the first 60-90 days on the job. They are shipped off to the Center for Professional Development in Irving. National pays the training fee and the council pays the travel expenses. It is usually a young DE's first business trip and is very exciting. The training lasts 13 days and most of those days are at least 12 hours. They stay in a very nice Marriott hotel and the meals are excellent. Here's the course overview: Day 1 -- Sunday -- orientation. They are divided into partols and are taught where stuff is and the guidelines for the course. Day 2 -- Monday. Morning patrol meetings. Sessions on values and ethics. Most sessions are part lecture, part discussion and part exercise. In the evening they cover corporate culture and diversity. Since many are right out of college someone explains to them that they are now middle class. Regardless of their economic status growing up, they are now firmly in the middle class of American life. I remember that lecture hit home to me. To say I was a priviledged youth is an overstatement at best. I like being middle class, but I digress. Day 3 -- Tuesday. Sessions on Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting and Outdoors. All De's had to go through basic training in these areas prior to arriving, so the sessions are a bit more in-depth. The sessions also run about 3 hours each. Day 4 -- Wednesday: Venturing, Learning for Life, Time management. Day 5 -- Thursday: Art of volunteerism, Key three, Art of volunteerism, and District Committee Day 6 -- Friday: District Operations Tracks, Scoutreach, Unit Service, Unit Service Tracks, Commissioner Staff Meeting, class trip (usually an evening off trip to a ballgame or other recreational activity.) Day 7 -- Saturday (they should be used to working Saturdays by then) is Executive Issues -- charter & bylaws, Risk Management, Sexual Harrassment (preventing it, not how to ) and Youth Protection. Day 8 -- Sunday -- relax, kid, you've been here a week. Day 9 -- Monday: Finance, FOS Luncheon (how to and work through) finance, Finance career tracks, Public Speaking. Everyone has to watch a video tape of themselves speaking critiqued by the instructors and classmates. Day 10 -- Tuesday: New unit organization (they're supposed to start 2 before arrival), membership mechanics, membership round robin, Togetehr plan. Day 11 -- Wednesday: Personnel, Museum/ Scout Shop (another trip) and a tour of the National office with sessions by: Boy's Life, registration, Compensation and benefits, Public Relations, Computer Lab. The evening is an orientation on the BSA's Oprational Management system. Day 12 -- Thursday: Television workshops and partol meetings in the morning, personal profile (I'm a High I/High D), setting priorities, and closing banquet. Day 13 -- Friday: Commission ceremony and time to go home. When I went through professional training (in 1989) it was 21 days. Way too long. When my first Scout Executive when through DE first training in the 50's, the DE candidate at the time was expected to pay for it himself and it was nearly 30 days long and you took the practicle course of Wood Badge as part of it. If anyone is curious enough to care, I'll gladly post the course description for PD-L2 and PD-l3 which are taken about 18 months after Pd-l1 and for PD-l3 another 18 months after that. After the 3 years and completion of PD-L1,2 and 3, and only after that, is your DE considered "basic" trained. That's why I hate to lose them in the first three years. DS

This is a great thread. There are a lot of good ideas and I'll steal some of them in good conscience. In another thread, on the topic of training, I'll post the course outline for PDL-I. That's DE 101 school. You might find it interesting. One of the best trainers I ever saw was the director of the professional BSA People Management Level 1 course I took. This guy was able to keep 30 professionals interested and engaged for 8 hours a day for 5 days straight. We had the tent-nametags as well. In one memorable discussion, some professional made a smart-alec remark. The trainer calmly walked to the center of the square, took the pro's name tent, tossed it to the floor and stomped on it! All in good fun, but I'm sure that pro thought twice before voicing her opinion again. He also had hearing aides and would get feedback if he held his hand close to his ear. He called it his BS detector and used it liberally. These may sound like negative things in training, but his sense of humor and impeccable timing made the course fun and memorable for all. DS

Reading this thread has reminded me of many happy homecomings from troop campouts, summer camp, and even college and other far-flung trips (six weeks in Peru while in college.) Thank you for the happy memories. My thought waxes philosophical -- Webelos to Scout Transition is optional. Many do not progress to the ranks of Boy Scouting. But boy to man transition is not optional. It is a part of life. I for one, think that the transition is off to a good start when it begins with a week at Boy Scout Summer Camp. I'm not a parent, so I really don't understand how hard it is to let go. But having successfully made the boy to man transition, I can tell you that I appreciate my parents for letting me go in an admiring and dignified fashion. And when I got home, I wanted the hug and a good long nap. DS