dsteele

My wife had to listen to me vent about this topic and now it's off my chest, so you good people don't have to listen to much more than a vapor. I would trade my salary for the Chief's (who I call Roy) except for the fact that I am unwilling to live with the 24 hour security detail that he has to live with . . . and all for 300K for giving his life to support more than 3,000,000 Scouts. There have been death threats against the Chief Scout Executive since Ben Love in the late '80's. I've had no death threats -- only someone who threatened to come to my house and "knock some sense into me" with a baseball bat. DS

Cutting executive salaries? Are any of us wealthy? Not on BSA pay, I can tell you that much. The expense of the uniforms has nothing to do with the salaries of the professional staff of the Boy Scouts of America. In fact, there is little mark-up on the price of the uniforms. The BSA insists that the uniforms be made in the United States of America and by union labor. They would be less expensive if made in a third-world country by folk who don't earn nearly the amount per hour that American Labor/Union workers earn . . . Which is, by the way, more money than most professional scouters earn per hour. I don't begrudge union labor, please don't begrudge your professional scouters. DS

OGE -- Thanks for the words to Green Grow the Rushes! I've been without them since I was a Scout. I simply couldn't remember them, but loved to sing the song while we hiked. Most of the other songs we sang I remember, but I was drawing a blank on that one. Thanks for the memories! DS

I was on Ritalin from about 1970-1978 as a kid. I don't know if it helped or hurt, but I'm fine. I think it must have helped. The one thing the teachers never seemed to understand was that it didn't matter if I was staring out the window or staring at a cardboard study carol (however you spell it.) When I was staring, I simply wasn't there . . . This was before ADD was popular. Glad I'm over it now. Gotta go! DS

Sounds like a plan. I would accept it. But I'm not your Scout Executive 0-- yet DS

Amen Matua! If I should ever step out of line, I pray that you and your Scouts will let me know swiftly and harshly. This is a good place to research Scouting. But only if we all and I mean all follow the Scout Oath and Law. Thanks for reading. DS

I see no reaon for this thread. I see no reason for good Scouters to dive into personal arguments against each other. This isn't Korea. It isn't Vietnam. It isn't even Iraq. We should pull out and ignore. No harm will come from it, I assure you. DS

According to BSA policies, where the Bull goes and where the tail goes, it really doesn't matter. However, what you have to deal with is what the volunteers in your council and others dish out. In other words, tradition has it that the tail (how much of it isn't defined) goes over the shoulder if you've climbed the tooth. None of the tail goes over the shoulder if you haven't climbed the tooth. That's the tooth and nail of it. DS

Let's cut the volleys guys. Friendly is part of the Scout Law we follow. Friends don't shoot volleys at each other. Please, either knock it off or carry it on through private messages. DS

What you said, Kwc, about the registrar not being able to find anything only re-enforces my theory. Applications do sometimes get lost. Probably has nothing to do with you. Fill out another one and re-submit. Go to Wood Badge. You'll be just fine. You're following the rules. But there's a lot of paper that crosses throug hteh council office. Don't blame them. Sometimes it gets stuck in a volunteer's briefcase, sometimes it falls behind the De or registrar's desk. Sutff happens. Simply re-submit and all may be well. Good luck. Have a good week with your son. DS

Eamonn: Perhaps you know me too well You've called me out. I was a coach/counselor for that Wood Badge patrol. I have to admit that I was angry when I got their brush off. I'd hiked quite a distance with my little tripod, flip chart, note cards and other materials for the session. The first style was to try to coach them to the table. I pointed out that they had paid good money to attend the course and that I was there to give them their first training session. Let's just say that they demured. So I switched to directing. "Get to that picnic table with your notebooks and pens or you're all going home right now!" That worked. For the moment. They went through the session fairly well after that. And, yes, I would have backed up my threat to the fullest. The rest of the week took every bit of leadership skill in my book of spells to get through. PErhaps I'll play out the examples as we proceed through this thread. Had to leave you with a teaser, Eamonn. So what other problems do you think would have come up with such a patrol such as I've described during a week long course? Or summer camp with a group of boys such as I've described. PArt of leadership is the anticipation of problems. DS

Amen, Eamonn. To all: Once again, I stand with Eamonn. And Bob White.

The answer to the Sea Scout question is in the insignia worn. DS

Number 10 on the qualification list should tell you that it isn't a national job description. There is no official Venturing uniform. The green shirt, polo shirt, an gray shorts are options and perhaps that what the author of the job description intended. The thing may have been born out of a cookie-cutter one in the council guide to administering Venturing, but the one posted here seems to be local. Ds

Kwc, My guess is that someone lost your application. Try submitting another one. Answer the questions truthfully and put your explanation on the little blue lines, just like you did before. DS

Once again, Eamonn does the right thing and I applaud it. Some of you may not have heard of the term Paladin. I'm pretty sure Eamonn has. Anyone who played Dungeons and Dragons has. To me, the definition of a Paladdin (sp?) is "essential good." My personal defintion is stolen from an author of a long series of books, Robert Jordon when he said of one of his characters, "he will always do the right thing, no matter who it helps or who it hurts." To me that quote is one of the hallmarks of a good Boy Scout. While I do believe that there are times and places to see "if we can get away with it," there are also times when the "rules are the rules" is the key. Eagle Scout is one of those. I wouldn't shoot the Scoutmaster in the head for having the Scout without the required merit badges "go" for Eagle, but a Paladin wouldn't allow it. It's a duty, pure and simple. However, I can tell you (I only wish I were a paladin) I would look long and hard at any paperwork from that Scoutmaster for a very, very long time afterward. Remember, as adults, we dont' make Eagle Scouts. They make themselves. The Scout Oath and Law are the standards for all of us. DS

I just remembered that Merlyn is a theater guy. So I thought a little harder about the quote I was attemtping. Please allow me to try it again from memory. I'm sure I will miss a word or two. In my college days I could ad-lib in iambic pentameter, but that was a long time ago. "Life is but a walking shadow. A poor player who strutts and fretts his hour upon the stage. It is a tale told by an idiot. Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Just found the actual: "Life's but a walking shadow; a poor player That struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more: it is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound an fury, Signifying nothing." Just a bit of symbolic ranting on a topic. DS

Twocubdad is probably correct. So much for wishful thinking on my part. However, I don't think this battle is over yet. I mean the grand atheist/homosexual argument as well as the Balboa park argument. Neither is apt to go away anytime soon. Let there be no doubt that I side with the BSA and for more than my personal paycheck. If I didn't believe in the BSA I certainly wouldn't work for it. But I also like the line from the movie 4th of July. I believe the fictional president said it. "We will not go quietly into the night . . ." And the BSA won't either. My point in the previous post is that the BSA as a movement has a habit of winning. Whether winning means standing by, standing firm, or simmply stating our postion and letting the world do what it will, we're in the habit of winning. Merlyn, I'm tired of your vapors. We're not going anywhere, and it seems you're not either. Why you're not more bothered by fencing around Indpendance Hall (the cradle of the freedom you use to try to end government support of the BSA) and seem to be centered on ending any kind of taxpayer support of helping instill values in America's youth, I don't understand. Don't you have better places to spend your engery? What about all those children who pledge allegiance to the United States Under God in elementary schools all over the country? You seem to want to pick on a few million BSA members instead. To quote Shakespeare . . . " . . . is but a walking shadow. A poor actor strutting and fretting his way across the stage . . . full of sound and fury . . . signifying ... nothing." DS OK. So that's the Captain Kirk version. I played MacBeth once, but can't do the full quote from memory anymore. DS

Before anyone gets riled up, I think we should allow Merlyn his glee. If I were on that city council I would push the council to sell the land outright to the Boy Scouts of America for $50.00 and a signed agreement from the council that the city (and the taxpayers) no longer owed the BSA the $7,000,000 for the dining hall, ranger, etc. that the council has spent to improve the land. There's more than one way to skin a . . . DS(This message has been edited by dsteele)

Bo White is, as usual correct. The question is there and a "Yes" answer is a red flag that merits a further look. I've had the job of signing those applications for the council since they came out (1988) and I've seen a few DUI's and other suspended liscence "yeses" come through. Now, I don't consider that one an automatic out. However, I call the Institutional Head, Charter Rep, and Committee chair just to make sure they're aware of it -- in other words, did they notice it when they signed. If they're okay with registering the individual, then I approve it. If they're using illegal drugs or have ever been convicted of child abuse or neglect, however, it doesn't matter who signed the thing before I saw it. No way, Mr. DS

I shall miss Bob Hope. He was a great American. As Eamonn (Dear Lad) has pointed out, Leslie Towne Hope came to America when he was 4 years old (emmigrating ... as most all of our founding fore-fathers had) and adopted this country. I wept when I saw the 100th birthday salute on May 29th. Even recorded it on a DVD I watch over and over again. For most of America, if you're between the ages of 18 and 80, Bob Hope was on stage in one form or another for your entire life. What an impact on America! If anyone hears of when he's buried, please post it here. I've heard that PResident Bush has ordered all flags on government institutions lowered to half staff on that day . . . and my Scout Office, for one, will join them. Respectfully to Mr. Hope. DS

I don't know about the silent majority on the forums, but I'm getting tired of this thread. No one can simply compare the Gold Award with the Eagle Scout. At least not here. Period. End of report. I fail to see the need to spend valuable time that could be spent helping someone in real need of it in this pointless discussion of which is more valuable -- silver or gold, gold or silver. Perhaps I'm just tired and sleep will cause me to jump into this fray once again, but I (at this point in time) fail to see the need for this debate. The Gold Award is the highest rank a Girl Scout may earn. She deserves high honors for doing so. Eagle Scout is the highest rank a Boy Scout can earn. He deserves great honor for doing so. The Ranger (Venturing) is far more difficult to earn and has yet to earn (by it's earner's unestablished behavior) the status of either. All are great awards earned only by great young people. Can't we leave it at that? If you can't, I can. I pledge to myself that I will not respond to this thread again. I'm tired of it. DS

I'll admit I'm too tired to look it up, Bob, but I'm referring to a portion of the Insignia Guide that points to a minimalist look (wrong word) but again I'm too tired to look it up. You're right that you won't find the words not remommended, but the reference points to a clean look to the uniform or something to that effect. It may be a caution toward over ornamentation on a uniform. On second thought, I should probably not say anything until I have the reference in front of me. And that won't be this evening. I've got United Way requests to file by 4:30 tomorrow along with a pile of other deadlines. I'm sorry, but I'll get to it later if the thread is still on the radar. I'm editing this thread and it sounds edgier than it should. I apologize. It's got nothing to do with Scouting, but I'm worried about something else. Let's leave it at that. Worry isn't all bad. It allows us to think of contingencies we'll maybe never need. But at least we'll have them if we do need them. All will be well. DS DS(This message has been edited by dsteele)

I just found that out about 2 months ago when someone asked me. It isn't recommended, according to my read, but it is allowed. It was a surprise to me. DS

I too would have questioned whether this issue is simply people struggling to grasp what boy led means. However, one point sticks out in my mind. When the COR came to visit, the Scoutmaster changed his behavior. Why would he do that if he were well-trained and believed everything was running as it should? My guess, BSAbrit is your probably wondering if you're missing something. My suggestion is that you pick up the application for the Scoutmaster Award of Merit (which is designed to be awarded by the boys and the troop committee fairly early in a Scoutmaster's tenure) and see how far you get with it with the boys and the committee. When, (I wish it were "if) the word leaks to the Scoutmaster, he may decide he needs to change course. Of course, if you're wrong about folks not liking his leadership style, the worst case is that the man will get the award. I don't see a downside. DS