dsteele

Littlecarl; When you start getting into the intracacies of the charter relationship between the BSA -- and it's just that; more than a relationship between a chartered organization and the local unit -- it is an agreement between the chartered organization and the Boy Scouts of America, you get beyond the knowledge level of the average District Executive very quickly. Several replies on this thread have told much of the truth. Your chartered organization owns your unit. However, the funds your unit has raised in the name of the BSA are not the property of the chartered organization. Someone pointed out that if the Chartered organization is wiling to relinquish the number and the relationship, you can easily be moved to a more accepting organization. My suggestion (and no offense to your DE who probably doesn't have the knowledge base and I hope you don't mean to offend them) is to let the DE know that you would like to have a meeting with their supervisor or the Scout Executive, or Director of Field Service, Field Director, whoever is a council-level executive and ask your questions of them. To make it a little easier (and a learning experience for the DE) invite the DE to be part of the meeting. Go in with your facts delivered matter-of-factly and prepared to listen carefully. I hope the results will improve your impressions of professional scouters. Most of us are truly here to help. DS

Inflamatory exptemporation will not drive some of us to advance our theories or knowledge of the memos from 1998 from the National Council when we had to label Explorer Posts as being properly classified as Venture Crews or to move them to Learning for Life. "Folded like a cheap tent", I would offer as an example of inflamatory extemporation. DS

I'm glad that you have to die doing something stupid to be nominated for the Darwin Award. Otherwise, we might all be qualified DS

I must admit I'm less than thrilled at the tone of the previous few posts, but agree with the sentiment. I for one, would rather have active unit commissioners in fewer number than to have ineffective unit commissioners who grouse about "council" whatever that means, and specifically about their DE. If folks have concerns or complaints about their professional scouter -- which is a commissioned person and not the secretary answering the phone in the office -- they should take it up with his/her supervisor who is also a commissioned professional. If they don't like the way the phone is being answered in the office, they should ask for the office manager -- who is probably not a professional Scouter. DS

I'm going in. Don't know if the fire is still lit, but if not, I'm sure there are embers . . . Come on in and lets toss a log on. DS

I'm not much of a Trekkie, but I believe you meant "Captain Pickard to Enterprise. One to beam up." I know spelling is important, so I thought I would help. DS Now I'm no fan of dentistry, so please, continue your discussion. I'm gonna go upstairs and eat some Gummy Bears. FYI -- for several years it has been my policy to let the Dentist know that I will not authorize payment from my insurance company if I am lectured in any way by any of their personnel about coffee, flossing, or any other dental sin/requirement. I expect them to treat and not to alter behavior. I've never had to deny payment. But I am prepared to do so. DS

First and foremost, congratulations to purcelce for quitting smoking. I've done it many times, but not for very long. You guys have hit on part of the reason for weight limits at Philmont -- past experience with health problems. These problems are not necessarily inherent, but the odds are higher of everything from knee problems to heart disease (again, not inevitable, but certainly possible) in the overweight. As to the maximum weight (which is, I recall,) somewhere around 300 pounds, I'm told that it is the maximum weight Philmont can be assured could be airlifted to a hospital with any sort of certainty. As to the selection of adults, you may want to consider doing what council's I've been involved in have done: recruit a selection committee of hearty souls, come up with criteria, perhaps interview interested adults. Then make your selection and live with the results. Put second choice adults on a waiting list in case a selected adult has to back out for whatever reason, and have the guts to flat out let the ones the committee feels would badly represent the troop know that you feel that way. I agree that Philmont is for the boys. If an adult's feelings are hurt, but there is a possibility of something good (like a change in attitude) comes from it, then it should be done. DS

My favorite comedy came out in the late seventies. I don't know if its in moritoriam, but I've only been able to find a copy to rent about 2 x's. It's called "Private Eyes" and stars Don Knotts and Tim Conway. Brings tears of laughter to my eyes. They had a time gun -- went off every hour and usually when they least wanted or expected it. What a hoot! Even though it's Disney, I highly recommend it DS

Sparkie had me laughing out loud. Overtrained, the river hasn't changed. Sparkie, you have a story or two, I'm sure. Will you share? DS

Gtwnmassage: Sounds like you and the Scouts had a great week at camp. Congratulations and thank you for your time. I hope the Scouts ask you for an encore. Before anyone jumps on you, may I suggest a couple of language amendments to part of your post -- terminology, I assure you, but it points to philosphy and some will jump on the terms. I don't intend to be snide -- merely helpful. "Proud to announce that with 14 boys, we passed off 47 merit badges, two incompletes and had 5 boys move onto next rank one boy jumped from tenderfoot to first class! " Instead of passed off 47 merit badges, I think (in the parlance of BSA speak) you meant "the Scouts completed 47 merit badges." We passed off 47 merit badges sounds like they were gifts to the Scouts. From what I read in your previous posts, I find that unlikely. By incompletes, I think you meant "partials." That's the official term for partial completion or the completion of some, but not all, requirements. We're talking shades here, but they're important to the boys. Partial means unfinished business to be finished later rather than incomplete which means an effort begun, but not necessarily finished without starting over. The last part of the quote I leave as is because it's great news and very well phrased. Some folk don't like the fact that going from Tenderfoot to First Class can be done at summer camp or even simultaneously . .. but the fact is that it can happen under the current requirements. Again, congratulations on a great week at summer camp. DS

This is just a Dave Steele interpretation of a correct quote from the insignia guide. A BSA snorkeling patch is not a badge of rank and therefore can be worn on the back of the merit badge sash. I can assure you the world will not end if this is done. The purists among us will insist that because the Insignia Guide names a specific place on a particular item of clothing that it can only be worn as specified. Either argument can be justified, but I like mine better. It's now up to the Scout to pick a "camp." DS

I never liked Monty Python. However, Overtrained, I do suggest "History of the World Part I." A Mel Brooks movie. Have you thought about a "Live" chess tournament. They were popular in the renaissance. I do not, however, suggest Mel's method "Rook, jump the queen; King, jump the queen, etc." Still, a good movie. And I hope, a good idea. DS

Eamonn: Once again you and I are on the same philosophical page. Nice post. DS

Naming buildings and even camps after donors, corporate or otherwise is quite common. Most camps and even some council offices in the country have buildings named in such a fashion. But the topic as originally written seems to imply company logos or names on actual badges worn by Scouts e.g. merit badges, and I personally have a problem with that. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying corporate sponsorship of BSA events and buildings is bad. The BSA has long teamed with corporations and individuals in funding facilities and programs and will continue to do so. I hope that clears up some possible confusion. DS

I had one of those moments tonight. One of our districts does an unofficial party cruise. Tonight was the second year. I was there last year as well. It is not a district activity or a council activity. No youth are involved. What is it is a little quiet party with the volunteers involved in the district. We met at a bar & grill on the Fox River at 6:45 PM. About 25 folks including the DE and his girlfriend, the camp ranger, and myself -- the Assistant Council Executive. Then we boarded an 80 foot long barge (like a huge pontoon boat) with grills and picnic tables on it. We took a 3 hour tour on the river and had hamburgers, brats and a couple beers as well as a very nice evening of fellowship. I like to play it very low key at these things. If folks don't know me, I tend to hear things I wouldn't hear if I crashed around as the ASE. If they know who I am or want to ask someone, that's fine. Well, I'm sure they'll all know who I am in the not to distant future. When we neared docking (it takes a while to dock an 80 foot long pontoon boat) I wrestled with whether to use the chemical toilet on board, or wait until we docked and hurry off the boat to use the toilet in the bar. I only had two beers in the three hours, but they were giving me a sense of urgency. When the boat docked, the volunteers began to pack up the un-used soda, etc. The De hopped up on the dock to help catch the stuff and a volunteer was handing it up to him. In my haste to get to the rest room, I stepped around the volunteer with every intention of then stepping on the dock. I ran out of boat. Straight down into the river. We had been wondering all evening how deep the river was . . . and while I was standing there dripping on the dock after being helped from the water, I was able to laugh and show the people the dry line on my shirt just below the shoulders and say, "See? This is how deep the river is." I just wish I hadn't been carrying my street GPS in my pocket. I think it's a casualty. I also wish I'd done it on purpose so I would have had dry clothes to wear on the one hour drive home. But laughing at myself instead of getting mad saved the volunteers and myself a lot of embarrassment. I'd like to hear any stories you might have that led you to laugh at yourself and saved you and those around you unnecessary grief. I supposed I'll have to put up with jokes about Man o' Steele sinking, etc. But if you've got good stories, it will have been worth it. DS

Mark -- I agreed with every word of your post -- and still applaud it -- right up until I hit the word Presbyterian. I think you meant Episcopalian. It is the Episcopal Church that has bishops. Presbyterians do not. I just happen to be a Presbyterian, so it did catch my attention -- but my upbringing (and leanings) are Baptist. But that's a different story. I thank you for so eloquently expaining what I believe was a mutual disagreement over the delivery of a religious award. DS

Excellent posts. This topic comes back to the mission of the BSA -- to instill values in young people . . . the values we seek to instill are those found in the Scout Oath and Law. No rank is mentioned as a benchmark -- only the Scout Oath and Law. Advancement, uniform, adult associations, youth leadership, etc. are the methods by which we work toward achieving the mission. DS

I guess maybe I'm reading the question a little differently. What I think I see is the father of a Cub Scout who joined late in the program year, the Cub Scout earned the Bobcat, and the father hasn't purchased the uniform for the kid yet. Now the Cub is looking at going into a chance to earn his wolf and needs a uniform. The father wants to know what patches he should buy with the unifrom so his son looks like the Cub Scout that he is when he goes to his meeting in the fall. The answer, which has been touched on, is you need to buy a council strip, unit numbers, den number if known, and put them all on the uniform. The World Crest is certainly a highly recommended option. The next logical question would be, where do these badges go? The inside cover of his Wolf Book will have placement information (or else it's elsewhere in the book, they might have moved it. It's been a while since I looked at one.) Or he can request a Cub Scout uniform inspection sheet (they're free.) To find out which pack number and den number, call your Cubmaster. I agree with the advice of asking which version of the book to purchase, as well as the advice to contact the local service center. I'm impressed that someone knew about Lone Cub Scouting. They're exactly right. It is to be used only if there are no other practicle options. DS

I thought this was a book review, not a re-opening of the debate of Justification by Faith or Justification by works. All in all, I think it was a pretty good book. I thank Rooster for so elequently pointing out exactly what I meant when I said I didn't like some of Mr. Applebome's views. DS

Overtrained -- Have you contacted the Bristol Renaissance Faire? You're probably familiar with it and it isn't hard to find no the internet. DS

I'm not going to step in on this debate. I do wish to clarify that the religious awards program is not a BSA program. Some awards are recognized by the BSA for uniform wear, but the programs are developed and administered by the individual churches through an organization called P.R.A.Y. The UU changed it's requirements for their awards and the BSA and the UUA combined decided that the BSA would no longer recognize their awards for uniform wear. And now back to your regularly scheduled debate. For more information, take a look at the web site for P.R.A.Y. DS

Just lit the fire and will sit by it for a while as I burn the Wood Badge video support onto a DVD for ease of use by the staff. Come on in and pull up a log if you're of a mind to do so. DS

If we can leave the topic of naked boys and get back to the original post . . . I thought the book was good and more fair to the BSA than I was expecting. I think his views of Scouting are a bit judgemental in that he seems to think Scouting is a right and not a membership. I did enjoy the stories of his son's campouts and his involvement in the troop. His view of the micro was definately, in my opinion, much better than his view of the macro. DS

Ed, Matua and others . . . I have to, by nature of my commission, stand with the Boy Scouts of America within constraints. I have to admit I'm probably pushing the envelope with my participation on these forums. In the vein of standing up, there is an organization outside of Scouting that is standing up in favor of the BSA. I used to get emails from them freuqntly. I don't have the exact location, but I believe if you do a search for Grassfire on any search engine, you won't have difficulty in finding them. DS

The functions you ask about are an important part of the unit service funtion of the district committee -- usually delivered by Unit Commissioners. The District Committee exists to support units through the four functions of the district. Those four functions are: finance, program, unit service, and membership. None of those four functions, other than unit service, require unit vistits (meetings and outings) and the unit service function is primarily unit service. However, while none of the other three, arguably, call for unit visits, nothing says that the other's can't visit unit meetings and outings. For example, a finance person will need to go to a unit to do a family FOS presentation. A membership person may need to go to a school night to assist the unit with recruiting and a program person may need to go to a unit to put on a camp presentation. I thnk that a unit should welcome any member of the district committee to any meeting or activity because, if properly done, it can impress the boys, parents and leaders and let them know that they are part of a large national organization that cares about them. DS