dsteele

As usual, FScouter raises some excellent points. It is very helpful to have someone look over the applications as they are collected at the School Night. They can watch for missing parent signatures, Boy's Life boxes unchecked, etc. Minimally, the pro-rated registration and Boy's Life fees should be collected along with the application. The pro-rated fees are from the month of the school night through the end of the month of the pack's rechartering. I don't have those numbers memorized anymore, but your DE does. It may also be in your school night packet. I used to, when I was a DE, physically attend as many school nights as I could. At the end, I would take the top copy of each application and the pro-rated fees to cover them and turn them in at the office the next day. The pack copy and the health history, as well as any other fees collected by the pack (you can collect for a year + pro-rate if you whish and hold it in your pack account. That's up to the pack.) If the health history is incomplete, or the parent didn't know the social security number of the boy, we're fine with that. I can understand not turning in the applications if there is no den leader for a certain den. In accepting the money and the application, I believe the pack is promising a program for the boy. If you're not sure you can make sure that program is provided, keep the application and follow-up later. There is no paperwork needed for "returning" boys. The paperwork for those boys is done at re-charter time by either keeping them on the charter or removing them. In fact, having boys who are already registered (returning) fill out applications and turning them in can lead to double-registration unless you have a very sharp office staff with lots of time on their hands (the first part is easy, the second part unlikely.) As to the completeness of the applications from the council point of view, here's the list of what is required by the BSA to register a youth: Name, date of birth, grade, address, parent signature, cubmaster signature. Youth applications can be entered without Social Security numbers. Adults can not. Applications should be treated as time sensitive documents. Get them out of your hands and into the hands of a district or council representative as soon as possible after they are filled out. Also, remember that it takes two months (I don't know why) for a boy to receive Boy's Life magazine from the time the application information is entered into Scoutnet. If it's in your hands for a month, or two or four, the clock doesn't even start. Then we all get asked, "Where is my son's magazine?" Thanks for the questions. There's no such thing as a dumb question and I also agree that a lot of units just haven't been informed of the importance of recording a young man's membership with the BSA. Have a pleasant Labor Day. DS

There are also numerous BSA pamphlets on working with youth who have a variety of disabilities. They may not be in stock at your local council service center, but if you browse through the national A/V catalogue with your Scout Shop Manager, you should be able to obtain them easily and at little expense. DS

I agree. I welcome youth participation in these forums, but don't like to see adults and youth arguing with each other. I'm not a patch trader, so I'm not familiar with the "rules" unwritten or otherwise in adults trading patches with youth, but perhaps we should have something like that. DS

Many of you have read enough of my posts to know that I do not believe in treating Scouts with delicacy because they are young. Indeed, challenges are what teach them to become men, regardless of the pressure it may cause at the time. However, the above precludes any activity that is hazing. Hazing in the Boy Scouts of America ia prohibited. You can't do it. Period. This includes snipe hunts, encouraging younger Scouts to hang one another's underwear on the camp flag pole, forcing a Scout to sing at flag ceremony to recover his lost item, waving mail in front of other scouts at the dining hall and making them sing for it, etc. OGE made an excellent example. What some think of as all in good fun can be another's lifetime humiliation. My example of pressure I'll draw from my own experience as SPL when a tornado struck town on the night of a troop meeting when the Scoutmaster was out of town. The town was paralyzed. I called the patrol leaders and the adult leaders to tell them the meeting was cancelled -- pressure on me. When I got hold of the patrol leaders I told them it was their duty to call each member of their patrol so that no one tried to ride across the broken power lines and downed tree limbs to get to the non-existant meeting -- pressure on the patrol leaders. That kind of pressure builds leaders and is good. Waiting all night for birds that aren't there to go back to camp to be laughed at builds no leadership at all. Simply put, it's a bad thing. DS

I agree that it gives DE's ulcers and share in those ulcers. If I can add to NWScouter's thread a question of my own -- to leaders -- and granting total amnesty. That question would be, what takes so long? Some packs hold on to the applications until recharter time to save money because registration is pro-rated by the month. I'm not accusing anyone, but I've seen it happen. I tell units that do that (in total honesty) that is an abscontion of funds. The parent who pays the registration fee at the school night is assuming that their child is a registered member of the BSA immediately and that is not the case. Their child is registered when the council office is in receipt of the money. As to what can be done to get the paperwork in the office sooner -- I say it can be a service for a commissioner, a DE, or someone else to pick it up and deliver it to the council office. I've been known to go to the home of a Cubmaster or membership chairman, go through the paperwork and carry the apps and money to the office. But I would like to hear from pack leaders what the delay is and perhaps we can help to cut back on the obstacles and get the kids registered properly and promptly. NWScouter -- I hope this helps. It will help both of us to do our jobs if it does . . . DS

NWScouter -- I didn't think you were questioning my integrity. I don't jump to those kinds of conclusions. In fact, I'm glad you're doing your duty as a District Commissioner and are watching over quality standards. I agree with you on the need for packs to get their paperwork in on a timely basis and will help out if I can in your new thread. DS

It's going to be Labor Day tomorow. Please take a moment to honor those who labor. I was going to attempt to name those we honor with the holiday, but I'm sure I'll leave out an important group or two, so I won't do that. Let's remember that people are what get things done. Machines assist us, but without people to do the work our mail would not be delivered, we would not live in homes or drive cars, be able to call a plumber, or receive services of any kind. We have a drainage ditch in front of our house that wouldn't be there if someone hadn't dug it. Heck, our house would not be here if someone hadn't built it. I could go on and on, but I think you get the point. Labor Day has come to mean a day off for just about eveyone, but it should never be forgotten that it is also a time to tip our hats and offer a little salute to the guys and gals who work for a living . . . My salute to you, and enjoy the day. Dave

Powderhorn is a Region approved, council run training course for Venturer leaders. It teaches leadership skills, administration, and practicle outdoor skills. It also serves to train Venturer Leaders to train others. To find out about courses in your area, call your local council. If no one there knows, suggest that they call the Regional office and ask. Also, if you run an internet search on Powderhorn, I'm sure you'll run across some more detailed information. DS

This posts pains me, almost physically. I'm a pretty staunch Republican politically -- my mother says I lean to the right, even when I walk. What I think is important and what truly makes our country great is that we manage to draw strength out of our disagreements and unify when we need unity. There no partisan differences on September 11, 2001. At least on that day, all put aside the petty differences. Democrat and Republican Congressmen and women did not care who they were standing next to when they sang "God Bless America." DS

Thank you, Merlyn, for posting the resolution in its entirety. I think it was the right thing to do and it helps to facilitate reasonable discussion. DS

I'm not sure if I fully understand your question, but can address the appropriatness of Scouts participating in flag ceremonies at potentially political events. As Scouts and Scouters, we have a responsibility to provide service such as flag ceremonies, etc. However, we are non-partisan. It's okay to do a flag ceremony at the Republican dinner, but don't turn down the Democrats based on political bias -- or vice-versa. That is different than the requests I've gotten from politicians over the years to have Scouts in uniform distribute their flyers -- that's exploitation of the BSA and most of them know it. Participating in a get out the vote campaign is a different deal as long as it endorses the vote and not one candidate or party over the other. I hope this helps. DS

Let me address th scout shop not selling an astronomy badge without it being on an advancement report -- they should have sold it. Sometimes hourly staff get a bit overzealous in enforcing rules. If something should happen along those lines where you are, please call your district executive and explain to them what you're doing. The De will get you the patch. I see nothing wrong with a counselor having in his/her posession the badge as a momento. As to checking advancement records vs. registration, this should be done. It isn't usually done at check-out -- the Scout Shop staff are usually too busy for that. In some councils, the registrar does it and gives the DE a "heads up" when there's an unregistered Scout receiving a badge. Sometimes the DE has to check the advancement records themselves. The follow-up often takes longer than it should, but it does happen. At least it happens in the councils I have served and the one I currently serve. There is no need to be concerned about my membership numbers -- I view those as a matter of personal integrity. I'll assume that NWScouter didn't intend to question my integrity and won't take offense. Scoutnet isn't the problem with checking advancement in the Scout Shop -- it's just a bit too time consuming to do when there are customers in line. Also, Scout Shops are often not linked to Scoutnet, but to national's retail system that tracks inventory and not registration. DS

I'm not sure what the SC stands for, but we need it. There would be all kinds of discussion if we called ourselves . . . drumroll, please The Boy Outs of America DS

I'm going to watch these embers until about 10:05 PM C.S.T., then it will be up to someone else to rekindle the flame if it is to be done. It's the beginning of Labor Day Weekend 2003, most of you good people are probably out rather than convalessing at home. In any case, have a nice weekend. DS

Ladies -- I have to admit that it never occurred to me that Boy Scouting could be a method for single mothers to meet good men. I think it's great and wish you the best of luck in whatever your endeavors may be. Of course, I was one of those guys who during high school and college -- okay right up until just after I met Mrs. Steele -- who never hesitated to mention my Eagle Scout when I met a lady that drew my interest. I figured that if they laughed, they weren't worth my time and that if they were impressed, they were worth takling with . . . I can't tell you how many times that philosophy got me kicked by my fraternity brothers. Dave

OGE -- Congrats on your choice of Powderhorn. I look forward to reading about it from you. Have fun at it! Dave

At first I was glad for the softball question -- we all agreed easily. That's because I spent a while today preparing myself for the United Way hearing we have to go through as a council on Wednesday. I thought, ahhh, here's a nice easy question. Now that I've read the responses, I think I prefer the tough ones DS

Poor Hops -- I hope he has a good practice and wins the game tomorrow. For the moment, however, I'm sitting around an empty campfire . . . come on in if you're of a mind. DS

"I'll light the fire, and you put the flowers in the vase . . . " -- some song. I've lit the fire. I'll be there for a little while, but not for too long. My antibiotics are kicking in and dragging me down. Dave

Call your local council office -- listed under Boy Scouts of America -- during the business week. When someone answers the phone, tell them that you're interested in finding/joining a Scouting unit near you. Tell them what town you're calling from and that will tell them which district you live in. They'll direct you to your District Executive who will know which packs are strong, which are not, which are near your son's future school, which churches, etc. If there isn't one near you, ask how to start one. Perhaps you can grow your future Scout's pack from the get-go (a DE's dream.) If there is one near you, get involved, but you may get a few funny looks from folks who aren't as future-thinking as you who wonder why a Mom with a 3-year old wants to get a leg up. But I wouldn't worry about that -- as Scout leaders, we all get funny looks Be prepared to fill up at the gas station wearing shorts and two-colored sox DS

Good question, OGE. I was going to reply with something flippant, but found I can't. Your question to Merlyn brought back a time I went through where I didn't know if He existed -- a questioning period I had in college. But know I honestly believe that I can feel His prescence and see His hand in so many things that I can't believe I ever really had those doubts. Does that sound wacky? I hope not. I also hope I haven't derailed your thread. Dave PS -- I made a quilt that was a knight riding a pegasus. It's 8' x 10' and made of hand-stitched one inch squares. Across the top, I put the words "I Believe . . ." And left the rest blank. Let me finish it here ". . . in God." DS

If brevity is the soul of wit, I join Bob White. I concurr. Final answer. DS

Wow! 3 nearly simultaneously placed posts. In this particular case, I'd rather be hit in the middle of the crossfire than missed Directing styles of leadership can be quite comforting to those new in a position. If a commissioner crashes into a troop meeting and starts telling an experienced Scoutmaster what to do, he will be rightfully tossed out on his ear. However, is a unit commissioner sits down with a new scoutmaster and explains how to run a troop meeting when the poor sod (just for Eamonn's grin) doesn't have a clue how a troop meeting should look, directing is a good and welcome thing. DS

Mainescouter: Now I'm remembering the post about the Star Badge. You've already talked with your DE at least once. Call and make an appointment for breakfast, lunch, whatever fits both your schedules. Then explain the things you like to do in Scouting -- whether at the district level, or another unit, or commissioner service, or finance, or activities -- whatever it may be. Then let him/her tell you what the district's needs are. I had an adult in a similar situation in his troop, but all the key district slots were filled. Where this man truly turned out to be needed was as a Scoutmaster at a community center not far from his home. It worked out well for all: him, the boys, the council, and me. If you prefer, you can meet with the district chairman or district commissioner or all three. I only suggest the DE because they share a common thread with all aspects of scouting in the district. DS

Rubbing my forehead in a prediction mode -- Someone will come to your son's Kindergarten class in May or early June and give him a flyer that will invite you to sign him up for a life-enhancing experience. In the interim, I really like the advice to join the pack a year before your son (if he'll let you) and get trained, etc. Just please don't be like the guy who dragged his 5 year old into my office 2 weeks ago insisting I had to sign him up as a "mascot" -- there is no such thing officially -- because he was some kind of prodigy. I beleive in flexibility, but there are some rules I can't and won't bend. Best of luck to you and your son. DS