dsteele

I can't put on my beads without thinking about my Dad (and he's still very much alive.) The two beads on one side of the thong were the ones my father earned and presented to me when I earned mine. The other one is from the first course I staffed. The two beads that I earned were cremated with an Assistant District Commissioner who served with me in the Chippewa District. DS

I'm sure if you do your best and do not try to micro-manage the districts, that you'll do just fine. Best of luck! DS

In a council I served from 1988-1998, the council had a Day Camp Committee. The theme for the year, t-shirt and patch design, week-long craft, etc. were decided by the day camp committee so each district day camp would closely resemble the other's and kids could attend another district's day camp if it was more convenient. The committee was comprised of a council chairman, the district day camp directors, and a few ad-hoc members as well as a staff advisor. The committee also agreed on interpretations of the standards and who would do the inspections of each camp. It seemed to be a good system. The other two councils I have served have done Day Camp on a council level (only 1) because they have considerably smaller geography than my first council, so the council day camp chairman ends up being the camp director. DS

I like the turn this thread has taken. Thanks for the help to Rooster about sliders. I like sweet iced-tea. My family is from the East and we have always made our iced tea sweet -- I don't know why. It is a southern thing. I disagree about barbeque sauce. Don't like the stuff, which is probably why my mother-in-law signed me up for the sauce of the month club -- I have bottles and bottles of the stuff unused in my cupboards and it will probably stay that way. As far as I'm concerned, barbeque kills perfectly good baby back ribs. I like to roast my ribs over a bed of saur kraut with only salt and pepper as seasonings. Roast them at 425 for two hours on a broiler pan with water in the bottom and flip them every two hours. My favorite dish and has the same effect as sliders . . . poor wife. DS

Gidget: Welcome to the forums! You may want to re-post your question on Sunday morning. A lot of us look only at Today's active topice and activity on the forums drops significantly over the weekend. I have never been Concil Cub Scout Day Camp Chair, but I am the council's day camp staff advisor. The best advice I can give you is to work closely with your district day camp chairs and make sure you provide them with everything you can to help them do their jobs. Don't do it for them, that's not your role . . . but provide the support they need and deserve. Then, when camps actually start, do them the favor of a personal visit -- outside the inspection -- just for goodwill purposes, your own fun, and to say "good job." Best of luck to you. Dave Steele

I don't eat very much in terms of quantity and can only eat three White Castles in a sitting -- but that doesn't stop me from driving 15 miles in each direction to pick up a sack of 10. Luckily they microwave very well. Sliders . . . I love 'em enough to sleep alone that night. DS

Charity: Thanks for a story that makes me remember why I dedicate my career to the Boy Scouts of America. It's been a tough week and I'm glad it's over. But now that I've read yet another example that Scouting works -- I could start all over at Tuesday, September 2, 2003 9:00 AM with no problem at all. Thank you. DS

Thanks for the reminder, NJ.

I've been watching this thread with interest, but without saying much. I see both sides. I agree that some folks use the word "my" and mean it to be ownership. I once supervised a District Executive who would stand up at Roundtable and say, "You have to get more members in your unit. My district will NOT have a membership loss this year!" This was definately negative leadership and he's no longer in the profession. He firmly believed that he was the leader/owner of his district (and it just ain't so.) However, I fall more on the side of the use of "my" as an affiliation. If you look at it from the National perspective -- every troop in the BSA is part of the BSA. They get to use "A" instead of "my." For example, in Boy's Life magazine in the comic that depicts meritorious action, it just says, "so and so, a -------- Scout in troop XYZ . . ." If that Scout came from the Southern Region and I was having a cup of coffee with the Regional Director (which hasn't happened, but it could) I would understand fully if the Scout's name came up and he said, "yes, he's from my/our Region." I wouldn't blame him and position wouldn't have anything to do with it. If I were having a cup of coffee with the Area Director and he said "Yes, he is with one of my troops," I similarly wouldn't blame him, even though the Scoutmaster probably didn't have the faintest idea that the Area Director advises the Scout Executive and is the tool that the Region uses to assist local councils in their mission. I also wouldn't blame a council president or scout executive for saying the same thing because they too have a stake in the health and welface of the troop under their responsibility. Nor would I blame the DE for taking a similar stance or the district chairman or the district commissioner or the scoutmaster, troop committee, chartered organization, . . . do you see where I'm headed? It truly does take a village . . . I like the analogy of "my town" because it truly applies here. Now -- before some of you jump on me by starting with the national organization and working my way to the Scout, let me make a comparison. Please take a few seconds to absorb it. I'm a quilter, so this analogy is easily understood by me. I'm also a professional scouter and have an understanding of the thinking of national, region, etc. I'm about to go and get into bed. It's a chilly night in Wisconsin, so we have several layers on the bed. Let's say the top layer -- the large quilt we use as the bedspread is the BSA national council. It covers all, but does not own the bed. The next layer down is the quilt we use as the coverlet. Call it the region. The next layer down is a bit battered, but it is the quilt most loved because I made it for my wife as a wedding gift. Call it our council. Then we have another quilt that gets hauled to the couch when one of us is sick, or wrapped around us for a comfortable nap when it isn't on the bed, or just there when we need comfort. Call it the district. Below that there is the top sheet. Neither one of us can sleep without one. On a warm night, the top sheet it is all we need. Let's call that the pack, troop, team, crew. Who does it all exist to serve? Who is really the most important component? The Scout (or Cub Scout or Venturer.) Organizationally, the bedspread quilt is on top, but that doesn't mean it's the most important. DS

NJ -- To answer your question to me, it is a -- no b -- for the most part c -- somewhat d -- yes and the one that needs to be watched for by both. To elaborate, so you don't have to backtrack It has never occurred to me that the adult males might prey on the female youth attending the overnight. It could happen, but it would be treated by the BSA and perhaps the law as child abuse. There is a very good YPT tape for Venturers that is different than the one you've probably seen and is worth watching. b -- you asked if it had to do with female related injuries where you would want a woman to go in rather than a man. That's a large part of it. If you reverse it, it can make more sense -- let's say you're a 14 year old boy and step on something in the shower. You cry out in pain and a woman charges in to help your naked self. It would be mortifying. Even if it was your mother. The reverse applies as well. c -- female role models for female Venturers. That's a big part of it as well. Adult association is one of the methods of the Boy Scouts of America. There are plenty of moments on most overnighters to bond with adults and it's important. Not that young men can't bond with (admire, emulate, etc.) female leaders and vice versa, but having a female role model when there are females present certainly can't hurt. d -- Something you haven't mentioned. The biggest problem I have run into when dealing with teen aged boys and girls together in the woods was my ultimate goal when I was a teen aged boy. I don't have a problem with boyfriend and girlfriend being in the same crew, but the necking stays out of the outing. A male will tend to react to the boy's behavior and the female will tend to react to the girl's. In the teenage years, boys and girls also react differently. (Real life example here) I once had a crew go on a cabin campout. They did it right with at least two male adults and two female adults. They are required to have separate sleeping facilities and rented two cabins. (I wonder why? ) During the night, some of the young men snuck off to "raid" the girl's cabin. No harm came the hijinks quickly stopped when the two women shrugged off their sleeping bags and cast away the demon boys. I do have to admit that I think it could have easily been the girls raiding the boys' cabin. I think it helps to remember that not everything in youth protection is there to protect against abuse. Quite a bit of it has to do with health and safety. DS

Hello to our new Vietnameese friend. Greetings! Vnboyscout -- Thank you for joining us. Fellow Scouter.com'ers, please remember that our new friend is asking for our help. We should try to keep our sentences simple. I think Bob White's suggestion to use French is a good one. We can all learn from it. I don't see a need for us to talk down to him, but let's try to keep his need to go to a dictionary at a level that keeps it fun for him to be with us. Again, Vnboyscout -- welcome! DS

Thanks to Advanceon for making me do my homework. My answer about earning the National Quality Unit Award anytime during the year were way off base. I was wrong and I ain't afraid to admit it. The resource I checked was the Commissioner Manual. The National Quality Unit Award is awarded for the past charter year at the time of the charter renewal. As to the "Council Nazi" question, I applaud that you filled out the committment part and the registrar should have accepted it and just kept it with the unit file. Perhaps they were just having a bad day. While I was at it, I also found the answer to the question of which year should be awarded. Here's the answer lifted from the Commissioner Manual: "Units receive recognitions dated for the year of the month immediately following the unit's charter renewal. For example, qualifying units with December 2000 charter expiration dates will be the first units to receive the year 2001 recognition." I hope this helps. DS

Not that it's anyone's business, but here goes . . . Born and raised Liberal Northern Baptist, I was baptised in full emersion at the age of 14. My parents had a falling out with the congregation and we became United Methodists. In college, I had some doubts about Jesus of Nazareth -- which have been resolved -- but during that time I pursued converting to Judiasim (reformed.) A lot of soul searching and meeting my very Presbyterian wife led me back into the path of Zeugma Adolphotatos Christianicas (he who walks in the light of Crist) and am now a Christian. Much of my religious upbringing -- where we really talked about it under God's sky has been in the BSA. My interactions with most all the religions of the world in my 15 years in the profession have me led to the honest belief in the sanctity of all religions. All are somewhat right and all are not mutually exclusive -- as long as they lean on the side of goodness. I accept people of all faith. I've worked with and admired the beliefs of too many religions to name. Perhaps that makes me a Deist, or a Christian, or someone who Redfeather so succinctly defines as one who has found his/her peace, I don't know. I applaud those who believe in a higher power or higher powers in whatever form . . . as long as they believe. In those who proclaim that no higher power exists, I have no faith, no trust and no belief. DS

Eagle74 and Twocubdad -- thank you for pointing out what needs to be pointed out. to all: Let's not get stuck in the thought that styles of leadership are personal styles. All four are commonly used and should be adapted to the need of the group and the follower. To use my own personal example when I came here as Assistant Scout Executive: I had run 4 membership campaigns successfully as a Field Director. Membership to me was second nature. All I needed from my Scout Executive was to know the idiosyncracies of the new council. Then get out of the way, Sir, and give me the funds to do what I need to do. (Delegating) I had several years of camp experience, but had no desire to direct Day Camp or spend much time at Scout Summer Camp promotions, but it was part of my job. (Scout executive, you'd better coach/motivate.) I had a pretty good idea how to run an FOS campaign from the council level, but hadn't really done it. Part of my new job. (Scout Executive had better offer suggestions, give ideas, and guide me a bit more.) I had absolutely no clue how to run a popcorn and/or council wreath sale. I'd seen it done, but wasn't the guy ordering product, ordering extras, guessing how much we'd make, how much we'd spend, etc. (Scout Executive needs to direct on that one or we'll all fail.) I got the leadership I needed and we all had a pretty good year. In the above situations, as long as the needs of the follower are met by the leadership style of the leader, all are good. It's when we get a mis-match that we get into trouble. To further illustrate at the troop level and address a couple of very legitimate points (although there are subtle shifts at the youth level) it is the Scoutmaster's job to apply the leadership skills to meet the Senior Patrol Leader's needs. It is the SPL's job to meet the needs of the patrol leaders. Not that that is easy . . . but it's the job. DS

The only thing Advanceon and the others didn't hit on is that Quality Unit can generally be earned anytime during the year. It is normally filed with the re-charter, but if something changes for the good, contact your unit commissioner and ask if you can still qualify. It is not removed during the year -- if for example, your trained Cubmaster leaves -- but can be awarded during the year if your untrained (new or otherwise) Cubmaster completes training. They're right about the this year coming year columns. It is a goal setting tool as well as an award mechinism. DS

I don't care if the Scoutmaster (I saw the uniform out of the corner of my eye) and/or the Eagle Scout (don't know if it's true or not, but hope it is) win or lose. As long as they play by the rules of the Scout Oath and Law. I do have to admit, having said that, that they have an advantage in terms of skills and conduct. In other areas, I've heard that there must be folks at the national office just cringing. I doubt that to be the truth. They're people, too for one thing, for another, even if they cringed they will understand that the game is afoot and there isn't a darn thing that can be done about it now. The show has been taped. It will air. I just hope she conducts herself as a Scout. I believe she will. I believe in the goodness of people until they prove otherwise. I'll watch this one with interest even though I've never seen the other Survivor shows. DS

NJ -- It is a rule that applies most specifically to co-ed Venture Crews and Explorer posts. It normally doesn't come up with Boy Scout Troops, but should probably apply if it does. DS

OGE: Directive style of leadership is generally welcome and very positive when the person being led doesn't have a clue as to what to do. I've never been scuba diving in my life and don't really have much knowledge of how to go about it. A scuba instructor directing me would be most welcome -- I'm certainly not ready to handle delegation. I need to be told which whatsis to hook to the whatever, how to breathe, etc. The other problem I have is that I'm really not interesting in going on a dive, but that's a different issue. DS

"Darn," he said as he kicked at the dust with the toe of his boot, "battle is over and I never even had the chance to draw my sword." Thanks, folks, I expected a bloody one here, but your faith in the BSA sustains me. CRANEACE -- don't look for an answer to the private message you've sent me. The boards provided an answer for me. I appreciate your well-wishes for my recovered health (it has been,) but I sense your ax to grind and will avoid it as well. I bid you adieu. DS

I have to admit that when I first started reading the posts of Merlyn, I was really torked off. I should say cheesed off, living in Wisconsin as I do. Now I have to admit that I feel some pity for him. His beliefs are sincere, he does not fake his arguments -- although he does dodge the questions he doesn't like. I feel sorry for him because he does not know and will ever deny even if he feels it the peace that comes from a belief in God -- no matter what form that God may take. Believe in whatever higher powers you like as long as you believe in something and you'll always be welcome in my house. As far as I am concerned, God is not an option. DS

I haven't yet read the thread about unfair actions of the BSA, but this will, on the surface appear to be one. If the older Scout threatened a younger Scout in seriousness with a knife and intent to do bodily harm, it should be reported to the Scout Executive who will in turn report it to the authorities. The older Scout's membership will be revoked immediately and the appeals process will be outlined in the letter delivered to him. Scouts do not threaten Scouts and adults do not threaten Scouts. I agree with those who began this thread with a young scout trying to startle someone that it was a bad idea on the young Scout's part and that there should be some ramifications -- but what was described by another poster as an older Scout saying "Take one more step and I'll knife you . . . " is crossing the line. I'm sorry if I've upset you, but sometimes, in the course of doing my job, I have to upset people. DS

Sager -- That is awesome. I can understand why teachers were relieved that you gave them permission to fail your son if he failed. Then they can treat the child fairly and not worry about Mom or Dad storming into the principals office. I know my mother would have said the same thing to my teachers and I think I'm a better person for that brand of support. DS

Annie -- Call him. If you get voice mail, don't be concerned. He's probably in a fire. I believe in altruism as much as anyone, but it sure sounds to me like he's trying to impress you. It is possible to be both. You go, girl! (I really don't say that very often. Perhaps I should.) Good luck. DS

Dad is within his rights and it is within the policies of the BSA, but I can see why you might have some philosophical difficulty with it. I think that sonny-boy will eventually develop friendships and the independance to tell Dad he wants to tent with his buddy. Until that happens, however, there's not a great deal you can or should do. Assuming the Dad and Mom are together and have full custody (not a safe assumption in today's world, I'm afraid, but that's a different topic) you are only supplementing the boy's upbringing. Trying to assert independance for the boy as a Scoutmaster is treading down a path that can only lead to trouble. As the Scout progresses, I beleive that his father will as well. Also, I remember tenting with my Dad my first year at summer camp. It was really cool. The second year, I didn't even allow him in the area of my tent -- and I have a really cool old man! DS

I like the words I read about hazing being defined by the victim -- just like sexual harrassment. I think that people of all ages are more than capable of finding ways to embarrass themselves without the help of others and that with the help of others, they learn to overcome it and face the world bravely. As to the tap out being replaced by the callout -- I, too was disappointed. However, the accounts of overzealous Alowats breaking collar bones and dislocating shoulders are true. Of course and advisor worth his/her salt tried to coach the youth into tapping rather than smacking, but how important were the taps in the overall scheme of trying to teach values to youth? When I was tapped out, I'll admit I was very young and small -- about 12 and weighed under 100 pounds. The guy who tapped me out was 20 years old, on his college football team and probably outweighed me by at least my own body weight. Luckily for me he tapped me out like I was made of glass, but if he had wanted to show me the importance of OA with a little force, it would have been easily more memorable than I wanted. DS