dsteele

I'll take Bob White's word on the Carbon Tet thing -- I have no idea what that's about and don't have time to check in this my busiest month. As to changing the Guide to Safe Scouting title to Safe and Politically correct Scouting as Twocubdad (whom I really like) I don't think so. Safety comes in physical, spiritual, and political, and philosophical terms. Guide to Safe Scouting is enough for me. DS

Here is OGE' original question: "What are George W Bush's chances for re-election, in your opinion of course?" I think that he needs to be keenly aware that he could lose -- provided he wants a second term. He may not . . . I don't think he's said one way or the other. I respect our current President because he faces his challenges head on and doesn't back down. I think that as long as he continues to be perceived as a strong leader (the image is slipping) that he has a pretty good chance of being re-elected if he decides to run. However, he needs an economic upturn that is felt by folks like you and me and touted by more than just economists to assure re-election. I also find it ironic that people tend to blame the President for economic problems. It takes more than a year or two for the economy to turn around. Each President -- at least in his first term -- lives or dies by the economic policies of his predecessor. And each two-term president leaves his successor economic blows or glows. Nixon hurt Carter, Carter helped Reagan, Reagan hurt Bush, Bush helped Clinton . . . At least that's my theory at the moment. It's been a while since I took economics in literally the same classroom that Reagan took economics, but at a different desk. DS

Was the School Night/Join Us Night for new Scouts only? If that's the case, 17 is a good number. By all means, however, if you feel you can get more . . . do another roundup along with the suggestions from Cubsrgr8. He gave solid advice. In your private message to me, it sounds like you've already had one meeting with last year's Cubs. Am I correct? Dave

Perhaps I can shed some insight from the Risk Management Division of the BSA and my personal experience. A few years ago, I was approving purchase orders for a huge weekend Cub Scout event. One of the requests was for money to purchase laser rifles for a huge laser tag game. I spoke with my boss, the Scout Executive about it and he and I weren't sure we should approve such a thing. I turned first to the Guide to Safe Scouting and didn't find any reference. I called national, got a secretary in risk management and she told me that it is covered in the Guide to Safe Scouting. The page number she gave me referred to "war games." Not satisfied with that, I called and got the National Director of Risk Management on the phone. He said that laser tage is prohibited as a war game -- people shoot at each other. I argued to no avail and came to see the sense in that. However, I said, "If that's the theory, what's next? Banning squirt gun fights at day camp?" His reply, "We're thinking about it." WE meant the committee . . . I let it go. Arguably, one could say that the problem with paint ball and laser tag is shooting to "kill." Those "hit" are out of the game (for at least a while,) but those hit in a squirt gun fight are only wet and not "dead." The folks who have been debating this over Scouts-L can go ahead and write their letters to national -- and then write some more letters when they figure out that Capture the Flag can also be called a war game and get that one placed on the restricted activities list as well. DS

Le Voyageur: Please let us know you're okay after the storm passes. I hope you're out of there by now. I'm feel safe saying that our prayers (in whatever form they may take) are with you and your family. Be safe. Be well. Godspeed. Dave

Sorry, about the "Technically, yes." When I typed that, I mis-remembered the question to be "Would my pants be in violation of the uniform regulations?" The answer to that is "Technically, yes." The answer to the origional question is No. They would not be official, but few would be able to tell. DS

Technically, yes. Someone, sooner or later, would call you on it. But it wouldn't be me DS

Not trying to be a wet blanket -- I love Animal House as much as the next guy. Heck, I lived in one just like it for 3 and a half years. However, perhaps we just accidentally demonstrated why more Boy Scout age boys with no Cub experience don't get recruited to join. Just something to think about. DS

This has come up enough that it begs the question and I'm also curious because I've been tracking it for years in the Scouting profession. A few facts from my last 15 years as a BSA professional: 1) in my first council, there were 14 professionals on the staff -- 5 were right-handed, 9 were lefties. 2) In my second council, when I started, there was an even split -- 5 lefties, 5 righties. 3) At every professional training course I've attended, they have given some sort of written survey. I look around the room and count how many pens are being moved by the left hand while writing. The least I've seen is 50% left and the most I've seen was fully 70% left. Before anyone asks -- yes, I'm left-handed. Is it just the professionals, or are there a lot more left-handed Scouters than in the general population? So which are you? DS

The Area is to the Region what the District is to the council. It sounds like Northeast Region Area 4 is sending two troops to the World Jamboree. As part of that committee, you and the rest of the committee would recruit adults and youth to comprise the troops and oversee the travel plans, etc. As to wearing gold shoulder tabs . . . better you than me, my friend. Those gold tabs get you jumped on by every confused person or person with a bone to pick with the BSA. I was mighty glad I was wearing silver when I staffed the 1997 Jamboree. Good luck. DS

Professional opinions -- If someone wants to recruit Boy Scout age boys into a troop from sources other than former Webelos, it can be done. Unlike Cub Scouts -- who join in clumps in the fall and pump up the numbers, Boy Scouts tend to come in ones and twos -- and usually in the spring because summer camp is just around the corner and the idea is pretty easy to sell. But there's no good reason Boy Scouts can not be recruited in the fall. I've seen it happen very successfully on a few occasions when it's been tried. It saddens me that there are DE's out there who don't believe it can be done. Perhaps this story will help convince them. I worked with a great Scoutmaster in a small town who wanted to build up the troop's youth membership. There had recently been a leadership change and the troop was down to 5 boys. The Scoutmaster talked to me about it and we arranged for the two of us to go into the local middle school and put on an assembly for all interested boys. Grades 6-8. Tough age group. Fortunately, the principal scheduled us during a time period where all the boys had to either go to an exploratory class in music, art, home economics . . . or go listen to the Boy Scout guys. We had every male child in that school in the room. None had the slightest interest in joining. I did the talking. I asked how many thought Boy Scouting was for sissies, whimps, etc. It took me a few minutes, but soon every hand was in the air. The time of the year -- by the way was early December and there was a lot of snow and ice around. I then asked how many were man enough to climb a forty-foot tower on the outside and rappel down . . . in the ice and snow. Just because it's there. No one raised their hands. I rattled off a few other "wimpy" activities the troop had planned and promised them that if they joined, they would be on that rappelling tower by Saturday afternoon. If they were man enough. That Thursday evening, 18 new Boy Scouts were "minted." And baptised in ice and snow by the end of the weekend. National has just come out with a new video that helps troops put on successful join us nights -- Troop Open House. One copy per district was sent to each council over the summer. Put the plan in place, execute each step, and you will be successful. DS

Fat Old Guy -- As a matter of fact, I did. She didn't do it again. I was wondering if anyone would catch it and pretty sure someone would -- the uniform of the Boy Scouts of America is not meant to be worn as a Halloween costume. It is a uniform and should be worn as such. Thanks for catching that one, F.O.G. DS

It is definately acceptable to ask your troop's families for donations of old unused books. You should obviously check with your charter partner before asking members of the parish to give, but they'll probably okay it as well. As for the door-to-door solicitation, ask your District Executive. It will probably be okay -- although most councils face possible sanctions from the United Way during this time of year for any sort of fundraising, I doubt a donor would call the United Way or refuse to give because they gave some old books to the Boy Scouts. I'm not even sure I would call it a fundraiser since you're trying to turn some old Harold Robbins novels into merit badge pamphlets DS

Momof1, welcome to the forums! May you find much information here and good luck to you in your scouting role. Please feel free to look at my profile. To answer your question, I think that if the Cubmaster isn't sure if he/she is going to continue and things aren't getting done in the interim, that you should just go ahead and do them if you can. Does last year's cubmaster know that you're willing to step up to the plate and be cubmaster if he/she steps down? If not, please call and let him/her know that. Sometimes that's all it takes to get them to say "Thank God. I'm off the hook." Also, take a look at your council's web site. Most of them have a link that will allow you to complete fast start training online. Take a look at your council's newsletter, look for your district page. Usually they will list the district commissioner's name and phone number. Give the District commissioner a call and see if he or she can hook you up with a volunteer who can walk you through what you need to know to be a cubmaster. If you have a unit commissioner, skip the district commissioner and go right to the unit commissioner. If all else fails, call your District Executive -- who is probably already worried about your pack. Best of luck to you and your pack. Dave Steele

Here's a wearing the uniform to work story . . . It's a warning with a wink. I was working with a District Chairman who was finishing his second year and did not wish to serve a third. He and I were in the process of putting together our prospect list of candidates. A female at his company, who was significantly higher up the ladder than he was -- and he was no small fish himself -- wore her uniform to work on Halloween. She had been a den leader for her son's den for five years, but until she wore her uniform to the office, he had no idea she was involved in Scouting. He and I went after her in a recruiting process and once we overcame her one and only objection, she became arguably the best district chairman I have ever worked with. Her number one objection? . . . I'm a woman. Turns out that she was the only one with that objection -- she worked out great. DS

Scouter56 -- Thank you, thank you, thank you for the heads up. I am interested. Hops, thank you as well, but I would actually have to serve in a council the size of St. Joseph, MO for five years in order to qualify to serve as SE in your council. Timing is everything -- I have only served in this council for 15 months and 36 months are required before I can be considered. I will send out a feeler, however, to see if it's even possible to have a chance to try for St. Joseph. By that I mean I will speak to my current Scout Executive. He will let me try if that's what I want . . . But the bigger size of the equation is whether or not Mrs. Steele is willing to move after being here (and happy here) for only a little over a year. But . . . although it's difficult to rank them, here are the loves of my life in order of priority: 1 -- God 2 -- Country 3 -- Mrs. Steele 4 -- Boy Scouts of America I suppose "self" comes into play somewhere in there, but it's closely tied to Mrs. Steele. Again, thanks for the heads up. I'll see what happens. DS

I like Ed's philosophy of going camping when the youth plan to go camping. Unfortunately, I'm charged with following the policies of the BSA and if a committee doesn't sign off on the tour permit, the outing doesn't happen. The fact that the chartered organization representative is the one who resists complicates the matter. Perhaps the District Commissioner and District Executive should have a meeting with the Insitutional Head to discuss the performance of the COR, but I can't tell from my chair at my desk . . . it's a local council matter. Personally, I feel the role of the troop committee should be to do everything it's members possibly can to facilitate the plan developed by the boys under the leadership of the SPL and Scoutmaster. To answer the original question -- are committees designed to give us headaches or what? -- I used to think so. However, I've been through many BSA professional training sessions and some of them involve exercises in synergy. Synergy is the theory that groups come up with better solutions than individuals. I attacked each exercise with the full and cocky knowledge that I would score better than the group as a whole. Um -- I was wrong every time. When it comes to a group, or committee if you will, the sum of the knowledge of the individuals is less than the sum of the knowledge of the group. Unless, of course, the group allows itself to be governed by the loud voice of a single individual. Then something sociologists call "Groupthink" takes place and what you have resembles the Bay of Pigs Invasion -- where one person thought it was a great idea and, although everyone else disagreed, no one said anything contrary for fear of retribution from the individual. DS

Each chartered organization is entitled to one and only one chartered organization representative regardless of the number of units it charters. There is no limit to the number of units a single chartered organization may charter. It is possible for the same adults to multiple register across units and have the same committee. Okay, so much for the professional spouting BSA rules, purcelce asked for opinions and here's mine: Many of the LDS wards and churches I have worked with over the years have a single Scouting committee that works with all of its units. How well this works for them, I can't say, but the units seemed to function well. As a DE, I helped a few new chartered organizations start packs and troops using the same committee people governing both units -- it's easier to start two at a time that way and make sure the units are compatible in terms of philosophy, shared resources such as funding, volunteers and enthusiasm. I also try to implant the goal of growing both units quickly to allow them to break into two committees a year or two down the road. DS

Twocubdad: I've been around, but have been kind of quiet lately. Just am getting over the bronchitis from a couple of weeks ago and have been very busy hitting the streets again to get ready for the fall -- the busiest season for all but Program Directors in the BSA (as you well know, Program Directors are professionals.) I'm sorry I missed your well-meaning goad about professionals being in uniform all the time. It used to be the case when I was a DE because I hated wearing a suit and tie and loved the pride that came with being identified in uniform. Now that business casual is in vogue, I tend to wear that, but I can assure all that I usually have a poly-wool tailored uniform in the car. I like the uniform and wear it fairly regularly. Of course I'm a little nuts and also keep a Cub Scout uniform that fits over my regular uniform and a cape and mask in the trunk -- but you can ask Dancin' Fox about Captain Cub Scout. I'm sure he'll tell you . . . with my permission. I keep it there just in case I need to do a boy talk. That's great about signing up 36 new Scouts. 'Tis the season. Good luck! DS

I have great respect for chefs. They have to go through a lot of education and have more knowledge of culinary subtleties than most of us will have in a lifetime of eating. I don't think Fat Old Guy meant to offend Cheffy (not if he included a smiley face,) but there is a difference between a steak and a hamburger, etc. There is a difference between marinading with wine and using grape juice. I think one does well to take advantage of free advice from a professional in any field . . . including mine . However, I think that if a recipe calls for alchohol it is best left at home and not brought on a Scout camp out. I agree that most of the alchohol cooks out, but why have the bottle there when there are so many foods acceptable to Scouts that do not call for it? I like Cherries Jubilee, but I can have those at home and sip the brandy while I'm at it. Scouts can have them at a restaurant, but don't expect to bring a bottle of brandy on a camp out and not get criticism from someone. As to the cooking sherry thing, well, why bother with the arguments when there are so many other foods that are good to eat and good to cook from scratch that don't involve any controversy whatsoever? Like beans in the hole or chicken in a backpack? BTW -- would whoever I promised to send the old Fieldbook to please re-private message me with their address? I haven't forgotten the promise or request, but have lost the name and address. Thanks. DS

Interesting debate, and there really isn't an answer from an official point of view. I think that part of it depends on the expectations of the party or parties in charge of the meeting. Roundtables, it seems generally agreed, are for uniformed Scouters in uniform. Generally, there aren't youth around and no one says anything whether you're in uniform or not. I have served three councils -- none of them were mine (shoot! Wrong debate) -- and at one point I owned 9 complete uniforms. I was a professional, it helped with PR for the BSA and I don't like to wear neck-ties. I also expected the district volunteers who had uniforms to wear them to district committee meetings, and especially commissioner meetings. I felt that the uniform helped to remind us all that we were there for the boys, kept arguments to a minimum, and generally encouraged good behavior. That was two councils ago. Now I've become more casual and only have 3 complete uniforms. I wear the uniform for boy talks in the schools, to roundtable, district committee meetings when I go to them, Scouting activities where there are youth, and, when I feel like it, to my Kiwanis Club meeting to remind them that I am a professional Scouter and that Scouting is alive and well in our community. However, to council commissioner meetings -- where in this council we seem to be able to know who we're there for (the districts and therefore the units and most importantly for the youth) we do without the uniform. It's more like "come as you are, but bring a Scouting attitude." I'm not sure I've answered anything, but it's food for thought. DS

Excellent post Mike! I agree that you have a lot of work to do, but it can and should be done. The fact that it needs to be done is not yours. I remember telling an adult in the troop that the Great Scoutmaster was Mr. B -- and I inadvertantly opened the door to some very subtle discussions about religion in general. No, no one preached to me or tried to convert me to their religion . . . but shortly thereafter I became interested in all religious points of view -- which continue to this day and probably beyond. The religious journey began with staring up at the stars and looking at the wonders of the earth . . . and has spread. Thanks for the post, Mike. DS

I agree with the other replies -- the Scoutmaster assigned Leadership role is most probably (which means it's my theory and I don't have a document to point to,) a way for a troop to help a Scout to have the ability to show leadership (of other people, not leadership of a project) when the other positions are filled, special circumstances, etc. Service projects can be done alone (except for the Eagle Service project which calls for demonstrating leadership in a service project) leadership involves reliance on other people and them on the leader. DS

9/11/2001 still feels like an open wound to me. Not because I lost anyone or knew anyone personally who died. I would probably feel the pain even more keenly were that the case. A friend of mine is the Scout Executive of the Monmouth County Council -- in New Jersey. He went to funerals for 17 key volunteers after 9/11 and I'm sure he feels the pain far more than I do. I agree with packsaddle that we move forward in the world and do our thing, but I also think it is important that we never, ever forget the evil that was done on that day and strive to stamp it out wherever it may be. Maybe my reactions are wierd, I don't know. I tend to tear up when I think of those who lost their lives on 9/11 -- but it doesn't take long for anger to jump through the tears with an epithet I won't repeat here. The flag that has been on our front porch column since 9/11 was too worn to fly and we took it down at the end of last month. The new one went up today -- and then halfway back down until tomorrow. Thanks, Hops, for starting this thread. May we never forget . . . DS

Well, well, well. To answer the question on the table -- Dave was at the Scout Office this morning. Actually, Cubsrgr8 -- I don't think you should accept any of those webelos at all. Send them on down to Racine County and I'll take care of them Seriously, I would advise the parents of the graduating Webelos to have their sons look at as many troops as are viable in terms of distance, etc. Some would love to be part of a huge troop, but others may do well in smaller troops where they can get more personal attention and leadership positions, etc. And if some of 'em want to come on down to the Belle City, we'd be glad to have them. DS