dsteele

Beaver -- we must be of a similar generation. Back when I was a Cub Scout, many moons ago, I pressed my neckerchief very carefully. If folded properly, the Cub Scout neckerchief formed 3 arrow points under the slide. If not folded properly, no arrow points. And my errant den leader at the time (my Mom) used to give 2 "demerits" to anyone who showed up without 3 showing arrow points on his neckershief. BTW -- I ironed the thing, not her (although she helped.) I still have it -- it's on the bulletin board right behind me at this very moment. DS

Dan: Do yourself a huge favor and read Dune by Frank Herbert. It is, IMHO, second only to The Fellowship of the Ring as a signularly great work of fiction. It's complicated to explain, but there's a dominant religion that differentiates between mankind and beastdom by choices and behavior. The test in which the gom jabbar is involved has a human shoving his hand into a mystic box while the test administrator holds a needle (the gom jabbar) that contains something that is deadly poison to animals and safe for man. The box puts incredible pain on the hand inside, but if the hand is withdrawn, the needle is inserted. The theory is that an animal chew off his limb before getting caught in a trap, but a human will wait and win against those who trap him. Great book. But stop after the first one. I didn't care for the next two -- Dune Messiah or Children of Dune. Several more have been written by the late Frank Herbert's son, but none are as good as the first. Don't cheat by trying to rent any of the movie versions, either. None of them are any good compared to the book. DS

Chilli = food Chile = A country with some very good wine Chilli in Chile = priceless DS

I like what I see in this thread about how much parents appreciate the true spirit of the pinewood derby -- building the car with your kid. I don't particularly care for the assumption that the folks at national accepted this paid advertising out of greed. It seems that it's just assumed that they're greedy, stupid or both. 1) I think the editors of Scouting Magazine realize that the target audience of the magazine is Scouters who care enough about their kid to sign up to be a volunteer in the program, or care enough about the program to keep its values. So they accept an advertisement thinking that the Cub Scout Leader parent isn't going to buy his kid a car. 2) The folks at Target aren't stupid either. I have a theory of who would buy a pre-made pinewood derby car (actually 2 theories.) 1) A parent who has one cub age boy and one considerably younger. He/she is looking forward to making the car with Cub Scout son, but the 4 year old is too young to make a car. So he/she buys the little kid a car of his own he can play with and push around the house, etc. without fear that "big brother Cub Scout's" car isn't destroyed by little too young. 2) A non-wood worker like me who may be in a pack who does a "dad's race" and wants to race, but doesn't want to make his own car. DS

OGE -- Birds don't do well in catfights Beware! DS

The National Venturing Cabinet -- the elected youth officers have a site: www.nationalventuringcabinet.org The President gets mail at president@nationalventuring.org I had some trouble getting the page to load. At first it looked blank, but words jumped out when I highlighted the entire screen. DS

I'm not sure what you're referring to, Matua. However, there is a syllabus for Sea Badge -- the Sea Scout version of Wood Badge. I don't even know if it has survived the changeover to Wood Badge for the 21st Century -- but will call the National Director of Venturing on your request to find out. Let me know. Dave

UWCPROMOTIONS: The possibility of a fundraiser between professional wrestlers and Scouting is not out of the realm of possibility, but Bob White is correct that it would have to be sanctioned by the local council. It's not a unit deal. That being said, if the money doesn't come from ticket sales, I would need more information before I can advise. How would revenue for Scouting be generated? What kind of publicity would it cause for both parties? I suggest you contact your local council fund-raising professional (s) or myself. The council will be listed in your local phone book under Boy Scouts of America. I hope this helps. Dave Steele

Daggone it! I've gone and extended the nozzle of my Indian Pump. Going to have to shoot some water at something. I hope it's not you guys. I'll be at the Chanticleer on October 9th at about 9:00 PM. DS

Hops -- I beg of you to wear a helmet and appropriate protection when available. Life is too important to waste. I understand that you don't want to wear a helmet and it's probably a generational thing that your parents aren't adamant about it. But I have had too many friends die because they didn't take simple precautions. The nice lady who was my council's registrar died suddenly yesterday (she was 45) because she stopped taking her medications two months ago and stopped going to the doctor. Her son found her dead on the couch when he got home from school. I'll make you this deal -- wear your helmet for biking, climbing, wherever called for and I will never set foot in Peru again. Perhaps we'll both live a long time . . . Please, Hops. Dave

Eamonn: I know you, but don't really know OJ. But I believe neither one of you is either dumb or lazy. Does OJ respect your Assistant Scout Executive, District Executive or any other Eagle Scout? Perhaps you could cause a little pressure to come from them. I believe that your role in OJ finishin his Eagle is done. At this point you'll do more harm than good if you put pressure on him. Assistance is one thing, but he should seek it rather than have it forced on him directly from you. Sometimes a trusted thrid party can make all the difference. Dave

God bless the United States of America and the proud people who protect her. DS

Senior Patrol Leader -- Relax. No one is accusing you of attacking them or their organization. Sometimes differences cause people to defend their organizations quickly and without thought. I have seen nothing but praise for eitehr organization in this thread. There was actually a movement in the late seventies to -- not necessarily merge Boy Scouts of America with Girl Scouts of The USA, it even led to the BSA uniforms saying "Scouting USA" in the strip over the right breast pocket instead of "Boy Scouts of America." But it didn't last. There were just too many organizational differences on each side. So both excellent organizations continued to go their excellent ways. A merger is unlikely. Venturing can be as good for veteran Boy Scouts and veteran Girl Scouts as well as a boy or girl with no exposure to either program if done correctly. DS

I've been a DE trying to start new troops in rural areas. What you want to do isn't easy, but it is do-able with some work. Find someone (perhaps that's you) who know where the youth of Boy Scout age live in the county. Go with another person -- preferably a Scout or two -- to their homes and have an impromptu, informal conference with the prospective member. Ask them to join the troop and try to find ways to work through whatever issues are stopping them -- whether it be transportation, finance, schedule, etc. Build up your membership one family at a time and you can make it work. Best of luck. DS

Mrs. Redfeather: The jury is still out on whether I will return or not. You may be happy to know that I am proudly supporting my wife in every way possible on the trip of her dreams -- which occurs for two or three weeks every year. She's hiking the Appalacian Trail one hunk at a time and she aims to hike every hunk. She's a special lady. DS Part of the problem with that area of Peru is that sometimes in the train or in the truck are not an option.

Annie: I've been in plenty of homes where I knew I would not be able to change the personal living situation of the family. It is a hard thing to realize. It sounds like these girls can certainly use the opportunity to be involved in the troops you serve. I say that you should serve them like any other girl you would serve. Keep an eye out for financial support should they need it, but give them the same opportunities for service to others that you would give anyone else. Their service to others may well be their service to pay back what is being given to them. Just because you serve others doesn't mean you don't need it yourself. Good luck to you and good luck to those you serve. The bottom line is we all need each other in this world. I think God intended it that way. DS

Bob, I'm not sure if I completely understand your question. Are you asking about the application of state sales tax to a council fundraiser? Or are you asking if it's okay for units from another council to sell in your council's territory? I do know what a bedroom community is. You forgot to mention professional Scouters in your multiple choice answer. I majored in Social Science and Business at Ronald Reagan's Alma Mater -- same degree, same college, 50 years apart -- but thank heaven mostly different professors A bedroom community is one where the majority of the people who live there don't work there and have very little "stake" in community activities, making it difficult to serve. I have no problem with parents selling popcorn in the workplace on behalf of the Scout. The Scout still needs the experience, IMHO of going door to door to get the feel of greeting strangers and trying to pursuade them to help the cause, but the economic reality is that Scouting needs the profits -- for the kid, for the unit, and for the council -- in any legitimate way it can get them. As to selling across state lines, there is no rule against this. However, please watch to make sure you're not violating United Way restrictions in another council and you should take the time to be respectful of neighboring units. Don't help your unit at the expense of another. There's more "overgap" as one of my former Scout Executives used to say than "overlap." Find "dark teritory" that isn't covered rather than territory that is being covered. A simple phone call to a council office -- even if it isn't yours -- can do the trick. DS

Lava Rocks! The kind you put in the grill. Those won't blow up in your face. Anyway -- the bean hole brings back a lot of fond Scouting memories for me. It isn't the most enviornmentally friendly because it involves digging a hole, so check with the camp ground for permission before you do it. Here's the quote, again from the 1967 Fieldbook (which I promised I would mail to someone, but lost his address and name. If you're him, please let me know and I'll send you a copy.) "Bean holes aren't just for beans. you can cook lots of one-pot meals while you're off having a good time. Heated stones do the job. Dig a hole 1 1/2 feet wider and a foot deper than your pot after is is lined with dry, flat, nonexplosive stones. Bridge it with some sticks and lay a big criss-cross to get a good fire going. Keep feeding it until you have a hole full of embers so the stones are white hot. Your pot should be ready now. Shovel the coals out and set the pot in on the stones. Replace the embers around the pot and over it, then mound it over with the excavated dirt. Mark the spot well!" Hint: If you don't mark the spot, you risk losing dinner! The mound of dirt may be a dead give-away when you leave, but if it rains while you're gone, the mound may disappear. DS

I forgot to mention why the BSA moved away from the cooking with rocks -- used in bean-hole cooking and the chicken in a backpack. Some rocks, particularly sedimentary rocks will explode when heated. This is beause of pockets inside the rock that may still contain moist air which turns to steam and energy when the rock is heated. Use only hard rocks for heating -- mostly rocks not found near bodies of water such as large and small lakes, coastlines, etc. I emphasize NOT found near water. It's not against the Guide to Safe Scouting, it just isn't talked about much anymore. DS

I feel for your Assistant Scout Executive -- and have to admit that he makes quite a bit more than I do, but he's been there a very, very long time. "They" could refer to certain board members and/or even the Region. To have an Assistant Scout Executive (or at least create the position) is one of two positions in the profession of the BSA that requires the permission of the Regional Director. Director of Field Service is the other. However, the differences vary greatly by council. Our councils are in the same classification and are similar size. Both have Assistant Scout Executives. Many councils our size have Assistant Scout Executives because the usual combinations of Finance Director, Program Director, Field Director can be done by one person because the council is too small to pay for one for each function (the way larger councils often do it.) However, my friend, I don't think a council your size needs a Field Director and an Assistant Scout Executive. I would think from what you have told me that the Assistant Scout Executive ought to be able to supervise all of the district executives and learnign for life and eliminate the position of Field Director. You are correct that it is the Scout Executive's decision -- but the board hires him and if he's instructed to do something by the board and he doesn't . . . he could be the one let go. It's a tough situation. Talk to your fellow board members and let them know your thoughts and those of the district volunteers. Dave

Laurat47: I was wondering if anyone was going to ask. My patrol only did this once when I was a Scout because our Moms freaked out when they heard about it. From the Boy Scout Fieldbook, 1967 edition, page 168: (by way of definition, before you read the quote and imu (ee-moo) is a polynesian way of cooking with hot rocks) "Now here's an inside-out imu that will work while you're travelling -- and be there when you get there! Prepare the fowl as usual (they mean clean it) except for trussing. Meanwhile, be heating up a batch of stones that will go into -- and fill -- the cavity of the bird. When they're red hot, fill the bird and quickly truss the legs and wings securely. Wrap the bird in foil, sealing it and then be prudent and put it in a plastic bag to catch stray juices. Put the package in the center of a packsack loaded with dry leaves for insulation; fill with more leaves Stash the pack in your canoe or even carry it. In 3 or 4 hours the bird should be ready -- and so should you." Make sure you use a canvas pack. Otherwise it may melt. We had to take short turns carrying our chicken because the leaves don't insulate all that well and the heat from the rocks inside the chicken became uncomfortable. But we had a chicken at the middle of the day that was juicy and clevely cooked -- basted in its own juices -- just for walking around. Someday I'll tell you about bean-hole beans. I didn't care for the dish, but it was nice having another hot meal ready to eat when we got back to camp in the evening. DS

Mic o' Say is not a national program. It is very strong in several local councils, but you won't find word of it in BSA official publications put out by the National Council. Therefore it is a matter for the local council to determine what involvement and or support the tribe would receive from the council. In every case that I know of where there is a Mic O' Say tribe, it is a mutually beneficial relationship. Other than that, I don't know enough about the tribes to toss in much else. DS

NW is correct. Individuals attending a local OA conclave/fellowship, etc. do not have to file a tour permit. The event is a council event. However, if a troop organizes a "contingent" or group of individuals to attend the OA event together under the leadership of the troop -- it certainly couldn't hurt to file a tour permit, although it would not be required by national rules. If a lodge were to organize a contingent to attend a Section Conclave -- I would advise filling out a tour permit and simply writing "lodge contingent" in the box where unit would normally be marked. I would advise the lodge to file a tour permit if it is organizing a contingent to attend NOAC as well. I hope this helps. DS

Actually, I caught myself on the tailgate of the small pickup truck. I re-read my journal and realized the 19 year old dsteele was wrong. There was no way I could have caught myself on the bumper without hitting my head and knocking myself out on the tailgate. I do remember the belt breaking and falling backward. But my hands caught on the tailgate and my butt still slipped toward the road. DS

Eamonn: I know your respect for professionals and I respect your question. However, there is no easy answer for it. I can probably help you off-line by sending you a list of professional positions by classification, but I have never seen any sort of manual recommending professional staff structure by council size. It seems that a great deal of it is up to the council executive (Scout Executive) and the executive board of the council. Some positions, such as Director of Field Service and Assistant Scout Executive (my title) are up to the permission of the Regional Director -- but I haven't found a source with clear cut information as to the criteria for the position. As to council classification, it is based on total available youth, council budget, professional staff positions, and a few other loosely defined variables I don't completely understand. Sorry I can't help you more. I want to, but don't have the knowledge. Dave