dsteele

I concurr. Of course, I'm a bit jaded as a Scouting professional and have probably given to other Scouters or just plain lost or tucked away many items of value that could have been sold on E-Bay for a profit. I know of one or two Scouting professionals who hang onto things they think will enhance their retirement accounts. I have a few pieces (some of which I have lost or just don't know where they are) that are/were restricted to professionals for their accomplishments that I have heard receive a fair price at auction on E-Bay: The Chief Scout Executive's Winner's Circle Ring from 1988 The Chief Scout Executive's Winner's Circle sterling silver belt buckle from 1993, etc. I also have many "Distinguished Executive" items from the Region. I'm not willing to go to any length to sell them, but only value them for their practical value. The good marks on the resume mean far more than the item. Naked truth -- sorry. Why do people pay for Scouting stuff? I don't understand and would appreciate any insight. If you weren't there and didn't earn it, why would you want it enough to pay for it? Of course, I understand sentiment. I look forward to someday inheriting my father's badges from his tenure as a Boy Scout (although long may he live, forever and ever amen) but ain't about to pay money for someone elses stuff from that era. Just curious. DS

I think the family should have a strong role in the way in which the Spirit of the Eagle is presented. The Spirit of the Eagle award -- if memory serves me correctly is presented by the national council upon recommendation by the local council to Scouts who have passed away who were on the path to Eagle Scout. I see no reason a Court of Honor can't be given, very similar to an Eagle Court of Honor. I know of no official ceremony. It could be as elaborate or as simple as the family wants and the troop is willing to provide. I wish I could be of more help. If you email me privately, I can quote you chapter and verse on the requirements for the award and the approval process -- from the Scout office, but don't have the resources here at home. As to ceremonies to present the award to the survivors, I'm very interested in hearing the thoughts of this esteemed group of Scouters. DS

Thank you, Terry. I always find it slightly disturbing when the number of threads in the Issues and Politics forum outnumber the threads in the open discussion program forum. I think we do each other the most good when we focus on the program for the youth served by the BSA. DS

Excellent post, Eamonn, Dear friend. It's almost verbatim what I thought I had posted myself. Better, in fact, because it came from a volunteer. Has anyone else had difficulty posting lately? I have had several posts simply vanish. Am I doing something wrong or is it my computer, or is there a systematic problem? I'm not sure. Thanks for the help. Dave

Fat Old Guy -- you are correct. There are obligations of confidentiality on the part of the Scout Executive. Charity -- Hops is correct. The Scout Executive is also referred to as the council executive -- I'm referring to the top executive of the local council. The call does not go to National unless it is by the Scout Executive. The District Executive is obligated to report to his/her Scout Executive, so by giving the info to the district executive, your duty is done. Hops -- good call. DS

51??!! How old do you have to be to get a driver's license in Georgia? Just kidding DS

Charity: I'll try to post to this thread again. I thought I had posted on Saturday, but must have done something wrong and it didn't go thorugh. My advice is for you to get the evidence in hand to the Scout Executive ASAp -- he can at least make sure the young man can not register in the BSA anywhere ever again. The criminal stuff is up to the state courts. The BSA stuff is up to the Scout Executive. Either way, confidentiality agreements prohibit filling you in further. It stinks, but that's the way it goes. DS

I'm not quite sure how to break this to you, Matua so I'll break it fast and straight. YOU are now the top uniformed volunteer in your district. Congratulations on being selected to the very important position of District Commissioner. I have every bit of faith that you will serve successfully and with the boys' interests at heart. You're a good man. Thank you for accepting this positon. Best of luck to you. If I may be of any assistance, please let me know. Dave

I believe the two deep leadership requirement came into effect just before I joined the profession n 1988. That's when the adult applicaions with background questions came into play. Welcome to the fourms. DS

Sorry I wasn't there to help you. Took a vacation day. I'm glad to find that the forums gave the right answer without me. Of course, the down side is if you guys keep doing that, I won't be needed Dave

I apologize. I had no intention of insulting the British. Obviously I haven't met every citizen of the Emerald Isle and can't account for all of their teeth. I also apologize to Eamonn -- it sounds like he has good teeth. DS

OGE -- I agree 100%. Other than Princess Dianna (and I think her teeth were too big) I have never met a British Citizen with good teeth. I'll add as a caveat that I've only talked to Eamonn on the phone and don't know what his teeth look like. England, France and Canada are the only countries I'm sure of that have nationalized medical care and I've heard horror stories from each country. Things Americans would never put up with. Or, to paraphrase Truman, things with which Americans would not put. Our system is far from perfect, but it is the best I know. DS

I ask you to take my views in this post as personal and not as a professional in the BSA. Most folks on this board can do that, and I apologize in advance to those who can't. Let met just say that professional scouters are entitled to their policical leanings and can express them as long as they don't, in expressing them, try to portray their views as the views of the BSA. My views are not the views of the BSA. I consider myself a conservative because I don't believe the government has any obligation to me as a citizen other than to protect my interests here and abroad. The government doesn't owe me welfare. The government doesn't owe me anything that can't be done locally by a church or a charitable agency other than to build roads and provide for the common defense. A public education for the local children is also a right of any American and is contained in the constitution. There's an old joke that a liberal who sees a man drowning 50 yards off shore will toss a rope to the man and let go of the end on the shore and say, "He's got the help he needs." and walk away very satisfied with himself. A conservative will hang on to the end of the rope, but only toss it half-way to the drowning man and say, "If he wants it, he'll go for it." I tend to fall on the side of the conservative -- local help as opposed to federal. However, I also take some wisdom from the above joke and realize that not everyone can swim to the rope. Sometimes a little help is necessary . . . but it shouldn't come from the Federal government unless it is an extreme emergency that endangers the general welfare of the United States. Huge arguments have arisen out of arguments about the meaning of "welfare," but I'll not engage in them. I'm a conservative and have been for most of my life. Even when I was young and had no heart. Having said that, I believe that we need both liberals and conservatives in this country to keep it on track. When both exist there is balance. I believe that Nazi Germany happened when ultra-conservatives (radicals) drowned out the more humanist views. I believe that the Russian Revolution (communists) rose to power when the liberal forces (anti-Czar) killed the Czars. Balance is key to peace. Okay -- OGE -- I'm on my limb and hope I've played according to the rules. DS

I think Govenor Schwarzenegger may well surprise us all. It will be interesting to see. I also agree that he really needs to do what most smart politicians do -- surround themselves with people who are competant and intelligent and take their advice when it is given. They only then need the wisdom to separate the "patties" -- peppermint from cow -- and decide things with a clear conscience. If I could have a moment of the Govenor-elect of California, my advice to him would be this: Califlower is a side dish. California is a state. DS

Acco wrote (I do this just in case someone else is posting on this thread at the moment and I think his question is important.) "Are there hard and fast rules about convicted "anything" leaders? I thought that while highly unprobable, each leadership application was judged on its own merits and that except for age, agreeing to the Oath, etc. that no hard and fast rules existed. For example, if a 58 yr. old outstanding citizen had been convicted of a crime at 18, an automatic "no" would not be issued. While all past history should be looked at by the council, who really screens the applicant? Is it the BSA or the CO?" There are some hard and fast rules about leaders who have convictions on their record. I don't have those in front of me because the enforcement of those rules falls on the Scout Executive's shoulders alone. In Acco's example of the 58 year old who had a conviction on his record from when he was 18, the answer would depend on the crime. If the 58 year old was convicted of a sex crime involving a youth, the registration would be denied immediately. If the conviction was for driving under the influence/driving while intoxicated, it would be brought to the attention of the chartered organization and would be there decision. Normally adult applications are each considered on their own merit, but there are a few crimes (mostly against children) that will result in not being able to register. As to who really screens the applicant -- that's the responsibility of the people who approve the applicant, namely the Instituional Head or Chartered Organization Representative and the Committee Chair. However, in many cases, the CO doesn't have the resources to conduct criminal background checks, so it may well be that the BSA catches something they didn't know about and weren't able to find. DS

Peru it is. Specifically, Lima, Cusco, Kilometer 88, Ollanytaytambo, Urabamba River, etc. I can't explain why until I understand it myself. I need to go back. I missed something the first time. I'll keep you posted. Whether I go back in 2004 or 2005, I have to go back. My wife won't fight me on it, but she doesn't like it. Still, she understands that it's something I have to do. Perhaps its a mid-life crisis -- but something's missing. I'll figure it out and let you know. DS

One of the hardest parts of reporting child abuse by an adult to the council executive (properly titled executive staff) is that there is no reporting back to the person who filed the report. This is necessary for confidentialiaty and I make no apology for it. You have done your duty, now it is time for others to take over. I wish I could offer you more information, but that's the way this ball rolls out. DS

Bob White and Twocubdad are correct that if the den leader is a convicted child abuser, P201Cubmaster should immediately contact the Scout Executive and the Scout Executive should immediately remove him from membership in the Boy Scouts of America. All councils have their troubles and all councils are busy right now, but preventing the abuse of children is a very high priority. However, before we pull the trigger, let me ask this: When did the man register as a Den Leader? If it was after April 1, 2003, he has had a criminal background check and has passed it -- therefore he is not a convicted child abuser. I can see why a council wouldn't rush to pull the membership on the basis of a rumor. If he registered prior to April 1, 2003, he may have slipped through the cracks and the council wouldn't have any knowledge of past convictions especially if the man lied on his adult application for registration. Bob and Twocubdad are correct in that as Cubmaster you do not have the authority to remove a den leader. You do have a responsibility to make your concerns known to the Committee Chairman and/or Chartered Organization representative. You also have what I see as a duty to report the allegations of child abuse to the Scout Executive. I also agree that if the man wants to pull his kid out of Scouting, it is him who is choosing to hurt his son's development, not you. If the troop committee chairman choses to blame you, there's not much you can do about it, but you'll have done the right thing. If you need reinforcement that you're doing the right thing, go to your council's web site and find the link to the Youth Protection Training online. Best of luck to you. DS

I disagree that the Chief Scout Executive is paid well. I disagree for a couple of reasons -- one is that he lives under pretty close security, a second is that several Scout Executives of major metropolitan citie are actually compensated at a higher rate than the Chief Scout Executive, and the third is that he has to travel nation-wide. Let's face it, if he were the CEO of a corporation with 3 milion shareholders, he'd be making a lot more than $300K per year. DS

I got an email today from a travel agent who books trips to Cuba. I'm going to look into it, but I don't like the way it sounds so far. Seems somehow dishonest to me. "Hi Dave, Thanks for your interest in a trip to Cuba. We offer flights from Nassau and Cancun, but we don't offer flights originating in the US. Click here to see flight schedule from Nassau. Let me know what dates you want to travel and I'll send you the flight schedule from Cancun. We can also book your hotel for you if you like. I look forward to hearing back from you soon. Thanks," Cuba makes me a little nervous because it's an island. Clive Cussler's Dirk Pitt made it from Havanna to Florida in an old bathtub, but water isn't my medium. I can hitchike, catch a train(literally) walk, etc. but not from Havanna to Miami. Has anyone here been to Cuba? Do they have ruins, mountains and alpaca? DS

Sometimes, no matter how well briefed high profile speakers are, they agree to the discussion and then do what they want when they hit the podium. I don't know why the council recruited those two particular speakers -- and we don't know if there was a "no show" representing the more liberal side, which is possible. I remember a Distinguished Citizens banquet the council I was serving had. It was days after the shootings at Columbine High School and they were very much on eveyone's mind. One honoree was very liberal and used the example as a reason for gun control. Another very high profile speaker is a died-in-the-wool conservative who is very much opposed to gun control. As much as we tried to get them to avoid the topic, we could only shake our heads and slap our heads when they took to the mic and debate broke out. I'll agree that Ann Coulter can't be expected to be partisan nuetral, but have to admit that I do like looking at her Also, the thread on President Bush should answer MarkNoel's question about this being a right-wing political organization. There sure are a lot of liberals active here -- and throughout Scouting. DS

I spoke with the National Director of Venturing this afternoon. The process of selecting the council nominee for Regional Venturing President does vary from council to council. Some councils, such as this one, don't have a process or a nominee, while some are very sophisticated and have Venturing Youth Councils that vote on a candidate and submit the nomination to the Regional office. The Regions each select their own president in their own way. One of the things the National Director of Venturing pointed out is the opportunity for travel that is given to these Regional Venturing Presidents -- I would encourage you to contact them via email if your council would like him/her to visit. DS

Thanks, John and Le Voyageur. I'm beginning to plan my adventure. It is for the soul -- and hopefully alpaca wool. I kick myself for the two things I didn't do in Peru -- take pictures and buy alpaca by the yard. I also want to see mountains and ancient ruins. I'll keep you all posted on where I decide to go and I'll post the pictures someplace when I get back. But I'm not going until some time in July, so don't hold your breath. DS

Eamonn, my friend: I'm never sure about your British terms as to whether they're terms of endearment or insult. I have only our phone calls to tell me that they are terms of endearment. I don't speak English, as it were Actually, I don't understand the question, either. There is only one died in the wool measurement date for membership and that is 12/31. Everything else is just a checkpoint. If the district is 2% ahead in youth and units as of 6/30, it probably will be as of 12/31. If the unit is ahead in membership as of the Join us Night, the unit (district, council, etc.) probably will be as of 12/31. If the pressure is felt and met as of the check points, the goal will probably be met. If there are no checkpoints, folks may proceed feeling like they're on track when they really aren't and the goal is not met at the end of the year. DS

Laurie: Your DE needs to wake up and follow the rules. Having the CM sign for the COR and Chartered Organization opens more liability issues than one should be willing to face. Talk to the Field Director or Assistant Scout Executive, politely, and quietly, and make sure that those who have the authority to approve leaders and their positions do so. DS