dsteele
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What was/is the highest rank you have achieved...
dsteele replied to hops_scout's topic in Open Discussion - Program
All hail the future Eagle Scout and Ranger! As an Eagle Scout who's too old and too young to have earned the Ranger Award, I applaud SPL's accomplishments. Please let me know, and all of us, when you have earned either the Eagle or the Ranger or both. Expecially both. The Eagle is a beloved badge of the BSA and carries high expectations, which I'm sure you'll meet. As a ranger, you'll have high expectations from those of us with knowledge of the requirements. Mark my words, however (this is to all) someday, the ranger will be known as the "next step" for the Eagle Scout. If you read the requirements and don't say, "Wow" you're probably an Army Ranger, Navy S.E.A.L. or Air Force Reconnaissance. Those guys are good and so are the Venturing Rangers. DS -
I've always been interested in going the extra mile, yet staying within the parameters of what my job is, meaning I want to supplement, but not usurp, the duties of the volunteers. I hope I didn't lose you in the first sentence. What do you expect from your profesional staff and what would make you say, "Wow. What can I do for you?" Today is what we call "popcorn day" in our council. It's normally the day the popcorn and wreath (our main product sales and 30% of our council budget) orders were due. It was all hands on deck from 9:00 AM this morning to 6:00 PM. That's not extra mile. That's what I call "expected performance." I had also made the change of adding show and sell (sometimes called consignment) to our popcorn sale. This meant that returns of unsold product and payment were due today. This was a new wrinkle, although a profitible one for all concerned. The Scout Executive, who had sensed from me that he was driving me nuts, left the office at noon and didn't return until about 6:00 PM. Actually, he had meetings with donors and was doing all the stuff Scout Executives are supposed to do, but I was glad he was outta there because I had work to do. I couldn't go more than 4 steps in any direction I wanted to without being stopped by a different question. The questions came from the book-keeper, the 3 DE's (that's all we've got) unit leaders, other support staff, whatever. It was nuts. To further add to the stress, unlike last year and the years before when a week's time had been loaded into the time when the orders were due and the council order placed, I set the deadline up so that the orders were due today, I will process them over the weekend, and place the order Sunday night for delivery on Wednesday. Tight, tight timetable. I did this to give units a longer time to sell. However, they will not be able to add on like they have in the past, when the deadline has expired. I got three calls from unit leaders who knew they had a dealine but also had scouts with significant orders who had not turned them in. I gave those unit leaders my home telephone number and gave them until 2:00 tomorrow (Saturday) to fax them to my home. I will place those orders. The first fax came at 9:00 PM this evening and will be entered by tomorrow morning. The order dates are firm. I can tell you in all honesty that our under-paid hourly paid Book-keeper will be at our office tomorrow morning (Saturday) to check the email and fax machine just in case someone sent in a late addition to their popcorn or wreath order. She'll be there tomorrow because she doesn't want to miss church on Sunday. I'm not currently a member of a church, so I'll do the same thing Sunday morning. Then I'll place the order on Sunday for both popcorn and wreath and they will be delivered on time. I'm fully expecting calls at home all weekend from people who have gotten the word that I have to order the product by Sunday night. I'm not grousing about it, but it is a fact and a drain on my personal resources. Okay -- back on track. I do have to admit that I get a little frustrated with the popcorn and wreath "add ons" and volunteers forgetting that they are not the only unit in the council and looking for exceptions. My question is . . . "Is what I described going the extra mile?" In the first council I was employed by, it was expected by all that our home phone number appeared on our business cards. I took as many calls at home as I did at the office and never thought much about it. In my second council, my home phone, address, business, and email appeared on my card -- and I worked out of the office. Very few calls at home. In the council I currently serve, I'm listed in the phone book, but the secretaries are under orders not to tell anyone my cell phone number and my address is nowhere to be found other than by the professional staff and those savy enough to look in a phone book. I've had about 5 Scouting related phone calls at home in the 18 months or so that I've lived here. Okay -- sometimes I wonder if I'm doing enough for the volunteers who serve our youth. Usually it's when I'm very tired and I have to admit that's the case tonight. I'm very tired. What do you consider to be the extra mile of professional service? How can I help encourage more professionals to achieve that extra mile? How can I go the extra mile for you? DS
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It happens frequently. I think it's a shame to hold a qualified boy in the Webelos program when he's eligible (under any qualification) to enter a troop. Holding a boy back can lead to early drop-out due to boredom. Age 11 or have completed the Arrow of Light, or have completed the fifth grade, and a kid is qualified to enter a Boy Scout Troop. That doesn't say he must enter a Boy Scout Troop, only that he may. DS
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Ilduncans, congratulations on what sounds like a great ceremony. Two things about Boy's Life (it's great that they're sending someone): 1. It can take several months for the story to appear in the magazine. They covered an event in a council I was serving, and it hit the magazine 18 months after the fact. 2. Please have all the Scouts and leaders in perfect uniform. Otherwise a thread will start about Scouts not in proper uniform having their picture in a national magazine, etc. Actually, my sarcasm in #2 is not aimed at the difficulties of having all the boys and adults in perfect uniform, but at the difficulties of publishing a magazine that only photos the ideal in a real world. DS
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Amen, Matua, and thank you. I have faith in the members of this forum, whether junior, member, or senior. I find this group to be open to ideas, thoughtful, respectful, and just a good bunch of guys and gals. I look forward to the questions, even the arguments and count you all as my friends. I also participate because I have felt a kind of a wall over the past 15 years between professionals and volunteers that does not need to exist. I hope that my presence helps erode that wall and builds the relationship that is so very necessary between professionals and volunteers if we are to make Scouting work for the youth we serve and the youth we want to serve. Patrol Camping -- I didn't know it was possible until I read these forums and researched it for myself. It sounds like at least a few volunteers are making their professionals -- the true professionals who do care about Scouting (which is the vast majority) and will take the time to research matters about which they are not sure -- research. If the council volunteers have made a prohibition against patrols camping without supervison, you may be stuck, but if the office says it can't be done, ask someone to show you the resource that says it can't be done. Office staff and professionals are human, just as I am. They can be wrong and let "logic" (which means anything that makes sense to them) become law when a little research will shed light. I'm glad to hear Bob White's assistant scout executive was able to research, think, and pave the way for patrols to use BSA camp. The patrol, as I've always said, is the "leadership laboratory" of the BSA. It's the alpha and omega of BSA leadership teaching. DS
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Semi-safe Central American non-tours
dsteele replied to dsteele's topic in Open Discussion - Program
I like the sounds of Costa Ricca, except I'm not so much interested in econo-tourism. I want ruins and open marketplaces. My wife wants safety and to be with me. I find this slightly odd considering her martial arts background -- but her knowledge is theoretical. I don't have an ounce of experience that our current armed forces have, but a mugging attempt was made on me in Peru and my attacker suffered far worse than I did. I'm not worried about danger in foreign countries -- which probably makes me a fool. Okay, skip the probably. In deference to her, we're leaning toward a safer place. San Jose sounds good, but I'm leaning toward Belieze or Chiapas, Mexico. I do have to say (in spite of the thread about women in the military) if I have to be in a crisis of violence, I'd rather have my wife with me than just about anyone else. She's got a good head on her shoulders and has put me on the floor without thinking about it more than once -- that martial arts stuff WORKS after a few years of practice. It's a matter of comfort, I suppose. I hear there are some excellent archaeological sites in Nicuragua, Honduras and Guatemala, but fear I may never see them. I won't put my wife through the worry of having me there by myself and will probably not outlive her. At least I hope I don't outlive her. I love her too much to die before her and leave her with the pain of my absence and love her too much to want to live without her. Perhaps I should be grateful for my Peruvian adventure of 1987 (not a stable period in that countries history) and content myself with the wonderful life I have her in the U.S. Is this a midlife crisis I wonder. Already had and sold the BMW, so maybe not. I'm open to theories, though. DS -
A pack and troop chartered to the same organization may well want the same number for a variety of reasons: They don't have buy new numbers for their uniforms when they transition. It keeps the relationship easy for parents to understand Gives the boys in all programs a sense of unity with each other in spite of age and program differences. It's tough enough to get un-involved parents to remember their son's unit number, why make them try to learn a new one when a boy becomes a Boy Scout or Boy Scout becomes a Venturer. Downside -- confuses the heck out of the office and district people when the numbers are the same. DS
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There wouldn't be a uniform shoulder patch for Troop Committee if they weren't supposed to wear a uniform. Wear it with pride! DS
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What was/is the highest rank you have achieved...
dsteele replied to hops_scout's topic in Open Discussion - Program
Eagle (Bronze Palm) and currently Assistant Scout Executive. DS -
Thanks for the reminder, Dancin'. I slapped my forhead when I read it. I remember now. DS
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Semi-safe Central American non-tours
dsteele replied to dsteele's topic in Open Discussion - Program
Thanks for the offer, but I don't need a guide. I brought up the Guatemala idea, but made the mistake of printing off lonelyplanet.com's thoughts on Guatamala and showed them to Mrs. Steele. She shot that one down. Is Belieze as tame as it sounds? How much English is spoken there? How are the ruins? DS -
Clarification / Information on corporate sponsorships
dsteele replied to JerseyJohn's topic in Open Discussion - Program
Well said, Fat Old Guy. I won't go into gory details, but FOG is right on track. As to the 10% . . . There are costs that are not readily apparent to district events -- copies of flyers for Roundtable, mailings, secretaries taking phone calls from Scouters looking for more information (professional staff ends up doing this as well) processing the checks required to pay for the patches FOG mentioned, taking the reservation and running the registration lists to assist at check in, receipting in the cash after the event. The list goes on. Some councils actually charge the event for copies, postage, etc. and don't account for what the secretary and DE are not doing while they're scrambling to find the flyer for the event, scanning the council newsletter, etc. to answer the question "what does my kid need to take with him to XX district camporee this weekend?" Why the parent doesn't call the Scoutmaster to ask, I don't know, but I can tell you that some people actually call the office instead. A pet peeve of mine is when the office secretaries aren't given copies of event information for whatever reason. People, logically, will call the Boy Scout office with a Boy Scout question. Sorry for the digression. Anyhow -- a 10% administrative charge isn't much. As to the cost of the camporee -- I've had those discussions and had volunteers say, "Gee, the only expenses we had were the crackerbarrel and the patch. Everything else was done by volunteers." I usually ask them when the last time they rented a porta-john was. Or paid to have the dumpster emptied, or if they knew there's a fee for using the land. Those kinds of expenses aren't often thought about, but they are paid from event registration fees. DS -
Welcome to the forums, Dedmon1. I suggest you call your local council service center who can put you in touch with your DE. If you tell them what you've posted here, your DE will cheerfully provide you with a list of Crews chartered to Catholic Churches in your area and will be glad to provide a contact for you. I hope this helps. DS
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Yes. DS
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Semi-safe Central American non-tours
dsteele replied to dsteele's topic in Open Discussion - Program
I have to admit that I'm a little torn. Belize sounds very exciting to my wife, but boring to me. They speak English and there is little danger. Men I know who are 40 years my senior and their wives have been there. I'd get excited about the Yukatan, but my own mother has been there recently. Where's the danger? It's nothing like Peru. I can think of no one I'd rather have with me in times of danger than my wife. However, in spite of her two black belts (kyu-kido and Ju-Jitsu and her blue belt in Judo) or behaps because of them, she has no interest in danger and a great fear of it. I won't make her face her fears. Lord knows I've faced mine (and there are many) but fears have to be faced alone. At least that's my philosophy. So I'll go on the "safe" vacation if need be, but if there's a compromise that you can recommend, I sure would appreciate it. As far as I'm concerned, living in Racine, WI is about as dangerous as living in Cuzco, Peru. I've been in the worst neighborhoods in both places. Violence is where violence is, at least in my experience. If you're prepared to face violence and have peace in your heart, it's rare you'll find violence, but you're prepared if you do. I'll welcome your thoughts. The only given is that my wife and I will have our first vacation together since our honeymoon 11 years ago and it will be in Central America. The degree of difficulty is all that remains to be determined. Your thoughts will help. Even if it's to tell me I'm nuts and we should be in Puerto Ricco drinking Mai Tai's. DS -
This is a second topic to "Peru -- Should I go back?" and I would appreciate any advice from those who know central america. My wife and I decided that we would take a Central American vacation during her spring break. She's not opposed to the back-country vacation and neither one of us wants to take a package vacation with blue-haired little old folk on the American express. However, I wanted to go to Guatemala and made the mistake of printing out sheets from the lonely planet web site. My wife said she doesn't want to be raped during the day or robbed. She doesn't want the package vacaiton and resort AAA approved hotels any more than I do, but she takes warnings of criminal activity much more seriously than I do. As an aside, quite frankly, I'll go to Guatemala in 2006 after the Jamboree all on my own while she's on the A.T. and just show her the pictures after. In the interim, for 2004 -- we're looking at Cancun or Beleize -- anyone have recommendations on ruins to see, local hotels and restaurants (English is not mandatory -- we'll feel our way along) and open-air markets? Car rental information and guide to Guides would be helpful as well. Thanks in advance. Dave
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Matua: What you have described, to me, is good old fashioned Scouting and I think we need more of it. When I was a patrol leader -- many moons ago -- we did the patrol meetings on our own with no adults, but never went on any patrol camp outs. I did, however, as a 13-17 year old go camping with some of my similarly aged fellow scouts (friends from different troops, but all Scouts) on a piece of land behind our sub-division that we didn't know who owned. No one bothered us, policed us, or otherwise stopped us from camping. One night, and one night only, my buddy Mark from a neighboring troop who was sharing my tent with me, woke up to hear an older man's voice say, "They shouldn't be camping on my land, but what the hell -- they're Boy Scouts." He knew we were Boy Scouts because we'd left out cook kits outside and had a three stop dishwashing area all set up. Typical, for the time, Boy Scout fire layout, and canvas Voyageur tents -- three of them. We never did get to meet the man who's land we were camping on. But we appreciated his understanding. As to what we did on those overnights -- generally hiked to the mall (using Scout Pace -- can anyone explain what that is/was?) to the mall where a Scouter ran the movies. He let us watch the movies at the movie plex through the little window into the theatre next to the camera. Wonderful memories. And none of us died or had anyone sue our parents or the land-owner. DS
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Clarification / Information on corporate sponsorships
dsteele replied to JerseyJohn's topic in Open Discussion - Program
Bob White is correct. The exact quote can be found in the Advancement Committee Guidelines, but my copy is at the office, so I can't give you the page number from here. If someone wants to send me a private reminder tomorrow, I will check and post the exact quote. DS -
I'd like to think we're all on the same side. That side being, what's best for the youth we serve. DS
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Clarification / Information on corporate sponsorships
dsteele replied to JerseyJohn's topic in Open Discussion - Program
Matua and Bob nailed this one. Units can not solicit funds unless it's part of an approved unit fundraiser. The rules are printed on the back of the unit fundraising permit although I find them difficult to read because the ink is grey rather than black. In the council I currently serve, only two fundraisers are approved by the Executive Board and are authorized for uniform wear -- Trail's End Popcorn and a council wreath sale. We have several units who sell wreaths on their own because they decided it was more important to receive bigger commissions (no portion goes to the council, so they can keep it all.) Our current coulcil president and the executive committee have decided that they will actively oppose any sale of non-council products during the period of September 1 to December 31 beginning next year. Can they do that? Yes, they can. But it's not going to be pretty. DS -
Can a unit number be changed at the request of the chartering organization? It's a good question and I'm still trying to research the answer. I put my copies of the Rules stuff somewhere and can't find it at the moment. Can there be a Troop 1 anymore? The answer to that is yes there can, is and are. I do have an example I personally experienced of a chartered organization requesting the number assigned to their unit changed. It was done successfully. Here's the story. I worked with a Pentecostal Temple to help them start a Troop. When I turned in the paperwork, I assigned them the number 702. When the chartered organization found out about the number 702, they requested it to be changed to just about any other number. It seems there was a bar in town called the 702. The Pentecostal folks wanted no association with that number. So the troop became 705. All this happened quickly and not one uniform had yet been purchased, no troop flag to re-do, no troop trailer to re-stencil, etc. It seems there is a great deal of leeway in assinging unit numbers to chartered organizations. In the council where I grew up, the first number of the three digit system they use is the number of the district. This worked out well for things like phone calls to the office, OA and Council activities, etc. By knowing a unit number, you knew which district the person was from. When you called the office, you were asked your unit number and quickly sent to the right DE. The council where I started the profession took that one a step further. The district number is the second digit in their four-digit system. The first number is the program code. So when someone called the office and said they were from pack 3701, the staff knew it was someone from a Cub Scout Pack in the Chippewa district. If they were from 705, the staff knew it was a troop -- Boy Scout troops there use 3 digits. Then, to confuse me further, I started as Field Director in a council that had no real system of assigning numbers other than to avoid assigning one already in use. I liked the system mentioned above and told the Scout Executive I wanted to work with the council executive committee to change it. He quickly pointed out to me that my idea would require every unit to buy new numbers, change their unit flags, and do things like change the way a unit remembers its history as in SM406's post . . . we used to be Troop 1. I didn't want to be responsible for that much grief to so many people just for a more convenient way to communicate which program and geographic area you're from. I did have to sigh and fondly remember working where unit numbers make sense -- today when I got a popcorn order from 555 and didn't know whether it was pack or troop because both are selling. If the unit number had been 3555 it would have been so clear. Turns out it was pack 555, but the popcorn chair is new to Scouting and to her everything is still a troop. Had to ask several questions when I got her on the phone to clear it up. Sigh . . . DS
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Great post! DS
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I'm glad to see Bob White posting the excercise of calling your council office to see if its possible to have unsupervised patrols camp in the council camp. My guess is that if you get a support staff (hourly position) they'll dump the call on to someone else. I also have to admit that I would have shot it down out of hand if this had been given to me to answer before I read the original thread. The idea of patrols overnighting unsupervised by adults is alien to most in the BSA (sad to say.) Now, that I know better, if given the request tomorrow, I would say it's okay and even good, but would make sure the campmaster knew what's going on and that he would check on the youth at check in (perhaps silently during the night) and again in the morning. Is this so different than patrols camping alone during the JLTC course offered by the council? Not in my humble opinion. It also wouldn't surprise me if a council found it easier to make sure adequate adult supervision (as needed in troop outings) is required in all outings with youth on the property. It's not an insurance issue, neccessarily, but one of administration. DS
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She is getting it from the national camp standards for C.O.P.E courses. It's not in the G2SS because it normally doesn't come into play under unit auspices. That doesn't make it any less binding or true. Alas, the days of the 30 foot tall signal tower are gone. They're gone at least, unless C.O.P.E. and climb on safely requirements are met. It makes me sad, but thats the way it is. Like the standards or not, you still have to meet them if you want the BSA to cover it. You don't have to like the rule. It's the rule. Higher than six feet of the ground from the Scout's feet and you have standards to meet. It's not impossible, but there are standards to meet. I'm speaking both as a professional and a formerly C.O.P.E. certified director from 1992 - 1997. DS
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I'll say it more briefly this time: I can not find a single national source that prohibits a patrol from camping on BSA property without adults. If someone knows of one, I'll be glad to have it pointed out to me. DS