dsteele

My thanks to all of you will go out in our prayers over the Steele table tomorrow afternoon as my wife and I pray before our thanksgiving meal. I wish I could tell each of you how I am warmed by your presence in Scouting and how I enjoy coming home from a full day of working with volunteers eager to read your thoughts on this board. In one way, you're helping me by keeping my knowledge and professional skills as up to date as possible. In another way, although mostly electronic, I feel that you're all my friends and that it is a very large, close group that has accepted me. It really does give me a warm feeling (admittedly, sometimes a hot-head feeling, but generally warm.) Thank you for your friendship. Enjoy the holiday. Dave

Acco asked for a position description for a DE, Field Director, etc. All I have here at home at the moment is one that was written for my specific position in the Chippewa District as a District Director (the title at the time was Senior District Executive, Multiple person.) I'm going to cut out the parts that applied to the non-DE aspects of the job and give you an idea of what a professional's job description looks like. Bear in mind that these are job requirements for a paying job, in fact a career for many. We don't get to pick and choose which parts we will do, which is one of the differences between professional and volunteer positions. That's probably for a different thread. DE POSITION DESCRIPTION POSITION CONCEPT: Serve as executive officer of the XXXXX district. Responsible for the achievement of district objectives. As a key member of the district, give staff guidance to the cultivating, recruiting, training, and inspiring of key volunteer personnel for the district. Coordinate the work of the district so that volunteer efforts will strengthen and extend the program offered by institutions and units. PRINCIPAL RESPONSIBILITIES: 1. GIVE LEADERSHIP TO ALL DISTRICT PERSONNEL IN ESTABLISHING A PLAN OF ACTION that will result in the accomplishment of district objectives. 2. REVIEW, IN CONSULTATION WITH THE DISTRICT CHAIRMAN, THE DISTRICT COMMITTEE ORGANIZATION RECRUIT AND TRAIN ALL PERSONNEL in order that all committees will function effetively. 3. REVIEW COMMISSIONER NEEDS AND ESTABLISH A RECRUITING AND TRAINING PROGRAM to provide unit service, regular roundtable meetings, and on-time re-registration of all units. 4. RECRUIT, IN COOPERATION WITH THE DISTRICT FINANCE CHAIRMAN, LEADERSHIP FOR THE fos CAMPAIGN, PRODUCT SALES PROGRAMS AND PROJECT SALES to attain the district's share of the council finance goal. 5. INITIATE A PLAN OF ACTION FOR THE ORGANIZATION AND REORGANIZATION OF UNITS in order that all eligible youth will be given the opportunity to enjoy the programs offered by the Boy Scouts of America. 6. ASSUME ALL OTHER DUTIES AS ASSIGNED BY THE FIELD DIRECTOR OR SCOUT EXECUTIVE in order to advance the level of professional skills." Like I said, this is not a current position description, although not much has changed. The professionals critical achievements are the specifics of the job, but they all fall under the general position description. Please notice that it does not spell out that the professional is the one who should run the roundtable, run the popcorn sale, recruit every individual position, etc. Their job is to give guidance to the volunteer who's job it is and to provide every bit of good information, advice and experience as he/she is able. Ultimately, your professional will be held accountable in raises and continued employment for the performance of the volunteers he or she works with. It works the other way around as well, which is why some people believe that the professional works for them. Let's face it, when you're working with a professional who doesn't meet your needs, eventually you're going to stop caring about his/her needs and the whole ball of wax will melt. Harmonious relationships -- profesional to volunteer and volunteer to professional are what is needed. Divisiveness only hurts the boys. That's not to say we can't agree to disagree, but we need to keep it civil and move on for the better of the program. DS

This thread has taken a strange, but not unwelcome turn. Acco -- what professional scouters are supposed to do is definately NOT "none of your business." It's not readily available because it changes greatly from situation to situation and the average volunteer has no interest in the area or does not interact regularly with professionals. Often-times, I see volunteer's eyes glaze over when I try to explain the particulars of the profession, and the BSA doesn't publish much about them for this reason. FOG is not entirely correct when he says that professionals work for the volunteer. That is true in a few cases that I will outline later in this post. Bob White is techincally correct when he says that professionals work with volunteers and for the BSA, but I'd like to fine-tune his words a bit. The Scout Executive is employed by the executive board of the council with the approval of national. Every other professional in the council works for the Scout Executive. There may be other professionals in the middle (Field Directors, Assistant Scout Executives, etc.) but the ultimate professional's boss in the council is the Scout Executive. The Scout Executive's boss is the volunteer body called the Executive Board. The same applies to the Chief Scout Executive and the National Executive Board, but every professional in the national council works for the Chief Scout Executive. Of course, the Chief and Scout Executives involve their boards, or at least key officers, in personnel decisions. But that's who works for whom. In my next post, to come as quickly as I can type, will be a position description I had as a Senior District Executive, multiple person (the dumbest title ever created by the BSA) but edited to reflect a DE position description of the time. The only things that have really changed are some physical requirements. I would post a more current version, but I only have this one at home and ain't about to run in to the office on this Thanksgiving Eve to get it. Talk to you later, Dave (This message has been edited by dsteele)

Eamonn: My friend, you have just outlined the reasons for my deep respect for you and my admiration. I shall (I'm using one of them-there English words) give you my orders -- which I'm sure you won't obey, but what the heck? You have two choices: Choice number 1: Move to Southeast Wisconsin and accept the duties of Council President at 10:00 AM on Saturday, January 17. I'll still be the Assistant Scout Executive, but you'll like the Scout Executive, so it's okay. Choice number 2: Move me to Greensburg, PA as Scout Executive and become the Council President. I agree to work for the same salary your Assistant Scout Executive was making and the current Scout Executive can go on to National as Director of something-or-other. This is my way of saying that I agree 100% with your post. Your DE was trying to do too much. The twit of a Field Director (and I agree with your assessment based on what you've told me) was correct in that your DE's place was at the staff meeting and that volunteers (the right volunteer) should handle the training and the cake and the ice cream. Actually, I'm not entirely sure I was kidding about option number 2. I've been to Greensburg. My wife's family is from the area (did you get my private message about that, Eamonn?) and I think I could persuade her to go there. Dave

Lasteagle: Congrats on finding that passage. Bet you had to look pretty hard for it with those old eyes of yours Dave

I think I'm interpreting the question properly. Are you asking why the policy wouldn't apply to den meetings? One: One adult with six-eight boys present would be unable to abuse one or all of the boys. Two: The boys would be unable to accuse the adult of improper behavior unless all were in agreement. Well, they could accuse, but it wouldn't take an investigative officer long to figure out their vast conspiracy to falsly accuse an adult. When I say investigative office, I'm not talking about BSA people, I'm referring to people with badges or social service credentials. However, safety would come to mind in case something happened and the solitary adult had to take a kid to the hospital and leave the other boys alone. This is most likely to happen during a trip or an outing than at a den meeting, which is my guess as to why two deep does not apply as policy to regular meetings. Three: Suppose you have a den that consistently can't come up with a second adult. That den would never meet under the two-deep leadership policy and would quickly die and leave the boys with no Scouting at all. Also, I've said that it's best to always have two-deep leadership, but the policy requires it only for trips and outings. Do I think there should always be two adults at each den meeting, troop meeting, etc. The answer to that question is yes. However, if I'm asked to interpret the policy of the Boy Scouts of America -- and that's my job in my local council -- the answer is that two deep leadership is required on all trips and outings. The policy does not say, trips, outings and regular meetings. No one on one contact applies to all things, but two deep leadership applies to trips and outings. I have given the best answer I can as to the "why" of the policy. The rest is open to debate among the good people on this board. If you want a local interpretation in your council of what leadership is required and when, call the council service center of your council or your district commissioner. DS(This message has been edited by dsteele)

It's printed on the uniform inspection sheet for Boy Scouts and in the insignia guide. DS

Just a guess on my part, but if the 3,400 185 unit district follows national recommendations, it probably has a class 5 or above district director supervising 2 or more DE positions. Whether those positions are filled or not is a matter of budget. It's a big district. In fact, some class 800 councils are smaller than that district. DS

The word "initiation" reeks of hazing and is not permitted in the Boy Scouts of America. I don't think that's what SPLt15 meant. If he meant that the re-joining Scout still needs to meet the joining requirements, I don't have much problem with that. But we don't do initiation rituals in the BSA. DS

When I was a DE of two years tenure, I moved to another district within the same council. Shortly after I started, an Assistant Scoutmaster called me. He wanted to start a new troop at a different chartered organization and had already recruited the necessary 5 boys and the adults to charter. I talked to the charter partner, who was very excited about this new troop, and to the Scoutmaster of the troop the Assistant Scoutmaster was leaving. The Scoutmaster of the old troop said he didn't have any problems with the Assistant Scoutmaster, but that he planned to stay on as Scoutmaster and the Assistant wanted his own shot at it. Turns out that something was rotten in the state of Denmark. The Scoutmaster (of the new troop) had a son who wouldn't have passed his board of review for Eagle in the old troop. 6 months after the formation of the new troop, the Kid got his Eagle and the troop dissolved. I think that's a misuse of the program. No, it wasn't a coincidence. DS

NJ -- I think I had a random bad memory event that projected the image in my brain of James Dale showing up to a gay rally in his uniform prior to his removal as an adult volunteer in the BSA. I was wrong about that. I think I've seen pictures of him wearing the uniform after being removed as a leader, but I'm not sure about that. DS

There are advantages and disadvantages for each council size. Having relatively easy access to the Scout Executive is one benefit to being in a small council. In a larger council, they have the advantage of having a hierarchy that can promote DE's up the ranks and keep the benefit of their experience and knowledge in the council. In the council I serve, once a DE has put in his/her three years, it's time for them to move. We don't have any district that's big enough to justify having a Senior DE. There are other differences. Not to hijack FOG's thread, but in an attempt to keep it going. What size council are you in? Use any measurement you want, but I'm curious as to how volunteers perceive thir council's size. DS

Two Deep Leadership is required for all trips and outings. No one on one contact is also a rule. I think a lot of confusion leading to discussions such as this happen in part because it's easier to tell people they have to follow a rule in all circumstances than to open things up to interpretation. Yes, a den leader can have a den meeting in his/her home without another adult if there is more than one boy. The question came up earlier and is an excellent point . . . what sane adult wants to work with a bunch of kids without another adult? DS

Learning for Life, as you point out, Eamonn, does have a different set of values. This last membership report from national is the first time I have seen the Learning for Life numbers down since it's inception. I feel bad for Roy Williams as well. Being the Chief Scout Executive during today's times can't be much fun. DS

Merlyn: You aren't worth the dignity it would cost me to reply. DS!

Just reading this thread, rather than skimming it. My apologies to OGE for not answering his direct question to me. No, they can not earn the Bronze Award as Boy Scouts. The award must be earned by registered Venturers. I believe SPL is truly a youth. To answer the question asked in the title of the thread, "We just started a Venturing Crew: Do these things we're doing follow BSA regulation?" The answer is, not all of it. DS

Sorry to interrupt the debate. I do so only to make a correction. NJCubscouter stated the following: "Gay people have been terminated from the BSA without ever having discussed their sexuality with Scouts. James Dale, to cite the most famous example, never did so, but he was expelled anyway." While NJ's statement may be true. James Dale may never have discussed his sexuality with Scouts, but he did publicly avow it. The clip below comes from www.bsa-discrimination.org which isn't particularly friendly to the BSA: "In 1988, James turned 18 and continued in Scouting, serving as an Assistant Scoutmaster to troop 73, sponsored by the Matawan First United Methodist Church. Meanwhile, James enrolled at Rutgers University, where he became co-president of the school's Lesbian and Gay Alliance. A newspaper report in 1990 on the Alliance's activities mentioned James. Shortly after that, the 19-year-old Scouter received a letter (available as a PDF) from the Scout Executive for the Monmouth Council, revoking his registration with the BSA and terminating his position, on grounds that "the standards for leadership established by the Boy Scouts of America . . . specifically forbid membership to homosexuals." end quote. Afer that Mr. Dale began showing up to rallies dressed in a BSA uniform he was no longer authorized to wear. In fact, Mr. Dale's involvement in Scouting was brought to the attention of the media because he wore the uniform to a rally while still a registered member of the BSA. He forced the issue and then wanted to make hay with the consequences. DS

You're a good man, Eamonn. Actually, an exceptional man. Keep doing what you're doing. You're right about membership being down across the country. I jsut got my ProSpeak and looked at the national membership numbers as of 10/31/2003. We were down in every category. This is the first time in my career that I've seen the membership numbers down in every category including Learning for Life. I know that you and your fellow volunteers and professionals have turned over every rock, tree, bush and school to hit the membership goal. That's the kind of guy you are. Keep doing what you can to help the cause -- one boy at a time. I also agree with you on the rechartering, and, in fact, just wrote a column for our council newsletter echoing what you said. Before unit leaders cross someone off a charter, they should make every attempt to keep the boy in the program. I also understand OJ's disappointment that the lodge did not make Honor Lodge status. The hardest requirement for Honor Lodge is the percentage of people who take Brotherhood. I can understand the requirement -- Brotherhood is the "sealing" of membership (symbolized by two bars on the sash, one above and one below, the arrow.) The number of dues paying members is one measurement, but the committment to seal the membership by taking Brotherhood is also an important component to having a quality OA program. Good luck in 2004. Dave

Good for you CrewGirl1024! Welcome to the forums. Keep on Venturing! DS

If New Year's falls on or near a weekend, national has been known to extend the membership deadline to accomadate business received after the weekend. Sometimes this leads to the close of membership on January 3,4,5, etc. Some of us jokingly refer to January 5th as being December 36th. In case someone hasn't noticed, things in the Boy Scouts of America dno't always move as quickly as we would like. DS

FScouter -- Nice catch on the black pants, and a dead on response. I missed the black pants part in my first reading. Black pants may be appropriate for funerals, but not if the family is looking for BSA representation. Black pants are not part of the uniform of Boy Scouts. They are not forbidden wear, they are simply not part of the uniform. DS

Bo White is correct. Again. Figure out what the council needs to spend and then let the council know what it is. Most know that there are only so many hours of use one can get out of helmets, ropes, carabiners, etc. You know, from what you've said, 18 moths (which translates to Scout Executives at this time of year, one and a half budgets out) what needs to be replaced. Place your proposal now so that the appropriate funds can be budgeted/allocated. The council financial stewards will take care of the rest. Stay out of the fundraising business and get back into the high places (I was going to say trees, but we don't do that anymore.) Seriously, go with the system and you'll do fine. The trouble arises when people don't let the council financial stewards know the needs until the money is already spent (unapproved) or the costs are hidden until the last minute. With 18 months advance notice, a lot of good things can happen. DS

No truth to that rumor at all. I wouldn't have heard about it if she were removed for some other reason, but she would not have been removed to the reason you mentioned. DS

When I referred to the two posters, I didn't realize that Bob White was a few minutes ahead of me when he pressed submit. Doesn't change either answer, I suspect. No, the world doesn't end when a district misses Quality status. However, as Bob points out, there's a chink in the armor of the group effort and some element of the future of the program will suffer unless a change in business habits occurs quickly. Fall short in funding and the program will suffer. Fall short in membership and the program will suffer. Have a loss in commissioner ratio and the program will suffer. By program, I mean unit program, which is where the rubber meets the road for the youth we serve. I'm not referring to the camporee -- which is a supplement to unit program. DS

I have to admit that I expect a certain amount of solidarity, comradarie, and support among all involved with the BSA based on the values found in the Scout Oath and Law. I'll be the first to admit that I am as quilty as everyone else in this matter. We have a Scouter who, for whatever reason, ended up on national television on a major network on a show who's merits can be debated. There was general agreement, at least among participants in this thread, that we hoped Lill would live the Scout Oath and Law and that she wouldn't make it long on the show Survivor. We were correct in our hopes, and those hopes were fulfilled. She lived the Scout Oath and Law. Unfortunately, we were right that she was kicked off the island. However, we were also wrong. In an unexpected twist, she was voted back on the island a few weeks ago. Not one of us commented when she was voted off. We didn't show our support. If you think she won't see this thread, you're may be wrong. She's obviously a dedicated Scouter and for all we know, she's a member or a lurker here. We owe Lill some support. She knows the outcome and we do not. However, Lill is back on the island and is doing, IMHO, very well. She is the only reason I watch this series. What happened was that there was a surprise shift. The two tribes had a challenge and the people who were voted off were formed into a third tribe. If one of the existing tribes won the challenge, they won immunity. If the people voted off won the challenge, each existing tribe had to vote off one of their own and vote back in one of the people they had previously voted off. That led to Lill being back in the tribe. Since then, they have voted Ruppert off (last week) and the two tribes have merged. In another surprise twist, the people of the first tribe (I forget the name) who seemed to have ethics and morals, who were getting the snot kicked out of them early on by the less moral Ruppert tribe are now coming to the fore. It seems there's something to ethics and morals ... praise the Lord. Now, I'll say this whether Lill is reading this stuff or not. She was seen crying in the last episode that she isn't good at anything. She's wrong. It's true that she isn't good at fishing, swimming, physical activities, etc. However, I think she, in a moment of fear, forgot that her real strengths lie in the 12 points of the Scout Law and the Scout Oath. She's got those down-pat and they will do her well. They will also do us well. Regardless of what you think of the series, if you want to see a true Scout in Action, watch Lill on Survivor. Now, I'll address the comment maid by Rooster earlier when he said, "Bottom Line: CBS, and probably all of the other contestants, do not care if they portray the BSA in a good light. " I'm not a big fan of CBS, but I disagree with the statement. Perhaps Lill can set it clear after the conclusion of the series. My only evidence that perhaps CBS, but certainly Lill, wanted to show the BSA in a good light, is that the network shows a few times alcoholic beverages were consumed by participants, Lill included. In one scene, the reward was pizza and beer. A glass of beer was passed down the line. It looks like Lill took a sip, but you can't really tell. All they showed was her right arm accepting the glass and tilting it. Everyone else, you saw drink it. She was in uniform and I could not testify that she drank it. Also, when she won the pizza and beer on a catamaran trip, she was wearing a wrap around skirt and her bandanna as a halter. No uniform. Perhaps there's more respect there than is perceived. I say, let us support the Scoutmaster of Troop 617, Cincinnati, OH. For whatever reason, she represents all of us, whether she wants to or intended to or not. As she said on the catarmaran -- "I am the Scoutmaster!" Indeed she is. DS