dsteele

Eamonn, Old China: I think you're doing the right thing. Now let's talk methodology. If you approach your dinner with the head of the school from the vantage point of a knowledgeable volunteer who wants to make sure that the school knows of the obligations entered by the local council -- that would be the promise to deliver a program on a monthly basis to all Venturers within the school, as well as the opportunity to use the Venturing program with existing groups -- then you will provide the school with the tools they need to demand a good program for their kids. That would be a good thing. Let the schools demand the council meet the contract. A bad thing would be to make the school believe that the council has no intent to deliver a program to the kdis who signed up. I don't believe that's true, but I do believe that some pressure from the school on the council leaders to "deliver the promise" is a good thing. That's why you're a good district chairman. Dave

First of all, take a deep breath and lighten up a bit. The permission to sign the form is given to the appying Venturer for reasons I don't know. Probably because it isn't "cool" for a 14 year old, or 15,16,`7,18, 19, 20 year old to have to go get "mommy or daddy" to sign their application to join any group. They don't need parental permission to sign up for the High School ski club, so why should they need it for a crew. As to why parental permission is required on a Boy Scout app and not on a Venturer app, I don't know that either, but we can all accept that the two different programs have different rules even when the ages overlap. As to the parental signature on the medical information, that falls into the category of legal issues. A minor can not issue permission to treat, which is included on the health history. That's why a parent must sign on the health history. The health history form is included for the convenience of the unit, not the council. That is why it is up to the unit to collect and maintain the information and why it is not forwarded to the council service center unless the youth participates in a council operated camp -- and then there is a different form. DS

Here's a bit of insight into the way Iowans think and why I love them so much. I was living in Chicago a few years ago and Iowa was starting some sort of lottery. The equipment that generates the random numbers neccessary is expensive and the Iowans wanted to avoid paying out that money. They decided that since most cable viewers in Iowa receive WGN from Chicago they would simply use the numbers from Illinois' PowerBall. Easy to do and it's free! Clever. DS

So, you want to hear a Mr. Steele screwed up as Scoutmaster story, eh? Alright. I'll tell you one after I get done entering popcorn prizes into the Trails End system. DS

NJ -- Just take a look at an application to join a Crew (Venturer Application) and you'll see that the youth sign their own application. It was that way with Explorer Posts back in the day when they had applications to join. DS

NJ -- I have a deep and abiding respect for you. It sounds like it surely must be a legal term, but I'm not a lawyer and have no knowledge of the law. Regardless, I have a deep and abiding respect for you because you are what you say you are and you stick to your guns. However, and this is nothing against you, the membership standards of the Boy Scouts of America are what they are. Period. End of report. You can debate what they "should be" until the cows come home and after. They will not change because of discourse on these boards. I still love ya, dude, but they is what they is and I get paid to enfore them. DS

Deny it all you want, KoreaSCouter. I am an admirer of yours and I will continue to admire you for all that you do. Like it or not, you're one of my heros. Relax, enjoy and continue to lead in the Boy Scouts of America. I take delight in saying thank you to you. DS

The shoulder loops are a bit too thick and there are no vertical ribs on them. They are not authentic. All of which is a moot point. How many of us, who love the Boy Scout program, keep mannequins of boys in uniform (Scout) outside the doors of our bedroom? We're talking about one sick man . . . DS

What did you do to deserve a gig like that? You signed up for it, and for that I thank you. To all veterans on this Pearl Harbor Day 62 years after the fact, I say thanks. DS

I don't disagree with you about role models. However, the BSA has determined who may or may not be a role model through the BSA. Bisexuality is not acceptable for leaders in the Boy Scouts of America. DS

I'm still laughing. I hate to admit that I got a chuckle out of FOG's "MS Wood Badge" line, but I thought it was funny. It isn't true, but it was prettty funny. Bill Gates isn't one of the consultants, just for the record. DS

What's going on with the big black box? Anyone else see it? Or am I going through my December madness again???? DS

Eamonn and I have discussed this and I feel his frustration. My guess is that the Crew is an existing Crew and that they've done this before. If the kids are going to get a program, that is one thing. If they're not going to get a program, that is quite another. I can alleviate one thing that is troubling you, Eamonn. Venturer applications do not require the signature of a parent -- they sign for themselves. I forget who pointed out that if the unit fails the council and district will have to come up with another unit and more youth to make up for it. It's a good point. However, it is also true that any time a unit is started you have the same situation. That's why it's in everyone's best interest to make sure that new units are successfull and that requires effort on the part of everyone concerned -- the commissioner staff, training staff, advancement committee, activities committee, district committee, the District Executive, the Nit, etc. As District Commissioner you may not be able to stop the jauggernaut, but you can hold some feet to the fire to make sure that the kids who are being counted as memberss receive the program as advertised throughout the next year. It's okay to sell the moon and the stars as long as someone delivers the moon and the stars. DS PS -- that's not the way I'm instructing my DE's to achieve Quality. I have thought of doing that, but it's really not my style although the temptation is great.

Have fun in Iowa. However flattered I am at the suggestion that I can keep the conversation on anything around here down to a minimum, it's beyond my power. I also want to go on the record applauding your young ladies who are involved with the BSA as Venturers. They are terrific! DS

I had a bit of fun at the Office Depot yesterday. I was sent by the book-keeper to pick up two new adding machines. I did so, but when the clerk was ringing me up, a little girl and her father got in line behind me. There was a box of stuffed animals on the counter. the dad squeezed one, a cat, and it began to meow "we wish you a merry Christmas." The daugter picked up a cow and squeezed it and it began to moo "we wish you a Merry Christmas." The dad said to the clerk, "I bet you wish these weren't here." The clerk said, "Nah. They sell really fast." I looked at the girl, who seemed to be about 7 years old. I said, "Let's see how many you can squeeze." Turns out that a properly motivated 7 year old girl can squeeze a whole box of singing toys! The clerk just looked at me, deadpan, and said . . . "Thanks a lot," as I laughed my way out the door! Sure it was a little mean, but what's a little fun between friends! I'm at that store about twice a week. I'm sure I'll get my "recompense" sooner or later Happy holidays! DS

It creeped me out, too. How many of us keep manequinns of Boy Scouts outside our bedrooms? I don't think any of us would even if we had the kind of money to do so. Uhhhhnnhhhh -- gross! DS

I like Iowa, and the people I've met who live there. In Eastern Iowa, you have rolling hills and lots of agriculture. The people are typical midwesterners, friendly and outgoing, but bitter if stabbed or spurned. Smile and be yourself, and you'll be just fine. Show a little curiosity and admiration, and you'll be loved. In western Iowa, things are a bit more flat and even more rural, but the people are the same. Des Moines is a bigger city than most think, but filled with good, corn-fed midwesterners and I would be happy to be there anytime. In fact, here's a personal endorsement for you -- I'm waiting in the wings for either Ed (Scout Executive in Cedar Rapids) or Bill (Scout Executive in Dubuque) to get out of the way and let me in their spot. Thanks for keeping the space warm for me boys, but, hey, give a guy a chance to live in a great state, will ya? Enjoy your winter break, outdoorthinker. They do have internet in Iowa. Keep in touch. Dave

I smiled when I read the comment about management consultants and movie people giving things (not really things, but the only commodities they really have to sell -- that which comes from their minds) to the Boy Scouts of America. I smile because that's probably what the folks who went to the management consultants and the movie people thought . . . that the day of donation (that should probably be capitalized) still exists. In a way, donations do exist. You can find people who are willing to fund projects for the betterment of the Boy Scouts of America. However, the movie industry and the management consultants are not the primary targets for such donations. They'll take our business, but they'll take our bucks in exchange just like anyone else. Fundraising for the BSA has changed quite a bit in the last 15 years. The private donor is the strongest source of BSA funds. Even if it's $100 at a time, it's the safer bet from year to year compared to corporate donations, local funding agencies, or foundations. Sorry to pop in this FOS commercial, but the opportunity was there and I mean what I say. DS

I don't read People Magazine, but I heard about this on the radio and had to pick up a copy to see for myself. On pages 84-85 of the December 8 edition of People Magazine, there is a picture of Michael Jackson standing in front of the door to his bedroom on the Neverland Ranch. On his left there is a manequinn of a little girl in some sort of uniform. On his right there is a manequinn of a Boy Scout in uniform (official) wearing a merit badge sash, shorts, and knee sox holding hands in an arch with the little girl. I find the picture totally offensive and more than a little damaging to Michael Jackson's case. In fact, the Boy Scout manequinn's unifrom is not even correct. The international patch is centered on the left pocket and the shoulder loops aren't official. Why I care about the uniform's correctness, I don't even know. Just thought I'd let you know about this . . . Michael Jackson is not a registered leader in the BSA and, to my knowledge he never has been. I'm sure we would have all heard about it had he been. DS(This message has been edited by dsteele)

I second FOG's post. I do not believe that bisexuals, homosexuals, or transgenders make the best role models for youth members of the Boy Scouts of America. Neither does the Boy Scouts of America, which is a private organization with its own membership standards. DS

Your best bet will be to call your District Executive or Scout Executive at the Scout Office on Monday and request that they call the International Division of the BSA at the national office for more information. If this is a BSA sanctioned event, they will be able to provide the information, any applications neccessary, and a letter of introduction to the Costa Rican Scouting Organization. I have never heard of this program, but am interested in it. Further posts with additional details would be interesting. Please let us know what you find out. And welcome to the forums (I suppose that should have come first.) DS

NJ is correct in that word of mouth is the most powerful recruiting tool we have. He is also correct in that the easiest market for recruiting is the Tiger Cub market. As a point of clarification, although few recall seeing them, national has marketed several public service announcements (commercials that stations are obligated to air a certain percentage of their time gratis, but no one dictates to whom or what time) to the major television markets. All are available for viewing on the national BSA web site www.scouting.org under media under press releases, under public service announcements. There are 10 done in recent years. They include testimonials and the two I mentioned. They are: Steve Fossett Robert Gates John Glenn Barry Larkin Jim Lovell Scott Mitchell Charlie Ward Steve Young A Scout is helpful A Scout is trustworthy. In spite of money spent creating those adds by the national office, I still say the best publicity is when John or Joan Q. Public see Scouts in action in uniform and when Johnny invites Billy to come to a campout with him. DS

The intellectual property fee of $15.00 per person is paid to the national council, who in turn pays royalties to the various management consultants and movie companies from which material is used. Those companies don't care whether the viewer is staff, participant or some guy walking by. I don't like it any more than anyone else does, and it was told to me that the thought of royalty payment didn't enter into the BSA mind until it was too late to change the newly developed syllabus. The staff syllabus, as I was told at the Course Director's Conference, can not be purchased by councils. One copy per Course Director's Conference was given to each council -- not to each participant -- to each council. They can not be copied. IF they are copied, the council or the person who made the copies, if caught, could be forced to pay the same fines a person who illegally makes copies of a copyrighted movie and gets caught pays. I don't know if anyone here knows what the fines are for copyright infringement. I don't. I know they are steep and I certainly can't imagine what it could cost local councils or the BSA to pay for every course that breaks the law in putting on this pinacle training. We may not like the rules, but there are reasons behind them. DS

Actually, beaverdude, I said, "I'll be around, but more quiet." I don't disagree with you, but about four years ago the BSA spent a lot of money on television commercials that were very cool and showed what Scouts are capable of. Do you remember seeing any of them? Anyone? I recall seeing two of them. In one, a little old lady looks intimidate to make a crossing. A Scout in uniform offers to help, and it turns out that she doesn't want to cross a street, she wants to cross a huge ravine. The Scout doesn't bat an eye, creates a zip line and carries her across. When they get to the other side, she says, "Oh my. I left my purse over there!" In the other one, a man is climbing up the face of a mountain. A Scout in uniform rappels down to him to a dramatic tune, and hands the man his wallet. "A Scout is Trustworthy" appears on the screen as well as the Boy Scout logo. They were cool commercials, but I doubt very much that they brought in a single member. Perhaps if two Scout age boys had been watching television at that moment and the one who was a Scout said to the other, "We can do that stuff," there might have been some benefit. DS

I had the same experience Neil describes when working with the Saginaw-Chippewa Tribe in northern Michigan a few years ago. They seemed bit miffed at being called "Native Americans." One even said, "We're Indians and we're proud of it." DS