dsteele

SPL comes through with one I hadn't anticipated! Cool. What would I, today, at the ripe old age of 37 (38 next Friday) ask my 70 year old self? Well, the answer may surprise SPL, but I doubt it would surprise the 70 year old version of me (feel free to answer his question from your own pov folks) I would ask 70 year old Dave Steele: Are you true to your ideals? Do you still love your wife? (I wouldn't ask if she's alive or dead. I would not want to know.) Hmmm . . . actually, I think I would be more interested in answering the 70 year old DS questions than in asking my own. I'd want to look in his eyes and feel his hands and get a feel for his pulse and take on life. If he's hale and hearty, then all is well. I fully expect that he's retired and owns a quilt shop that he runs when he feels like it and teaches classes to old people in his spare time and enjoys getting invites to the occasional Eagle Court of Honor or Blue and Gold -- but wouldn't be surprised if he had finally published his novel and was a good long walk away from the matters of the BSA. Interesting quesiton, SPL. Glad you asked. DS

I had hopes that Senior Patrol Leader, Hops and our other youth friends would see the question from the youth perspective and I'm glad he brought it up. I'm sure our 15 year old selves would have a lot of questions similar to those brought up by SPLT15. First of all, I would not answer the sports questions, nor would I have asked them of my older self. I simply don't care enough about sports to know the answers and wouldn't at 15 have cared enough to ask them. I would have asked my older self questions about meeting my wife (our wife?) children, politics -- who's President when I'm your age? -- Are our parents still alive? Did I get into West Point? I would not answer those questions for my younger self. If I did receive those questions from my 15 year old, the answers would pain him greatly and could cause him to do something that would destroy our life. The answers, just for the heck of it would be: Met our wife at Scout Camp. the 15 year old would buy that one. But then he'd take every camp assignment and propose to anyone who warmed his heart -- which to that kid didn't take much. No children. Ya can't have 'em. George Bush is the President of the United States (that answer would lose me credibility with my younger self -- he had just been sworn in as Vice President, hadnd't he?) Yep. Mom and Dad are still alive. They're going to get a divorce when you're 21 and there's nothing you can do about it. Don't even try. No, you didn't get into West Point. Nah. I think in answer to his questions, I would pirate thoughts that OGE expressed and hand them to myself -- but I was already pretty aware at the time. DS

Now I want to go home and watch re-runs of Bussom Buddies DS

These things are not that bad if we think them through. In the example you gave, Eisely, you drive the Scout home. Do not touch the Scout, but do walk him to the door and make sure there is a responsible adult to take care of the Scout. Think about it from all points of view. If you left the Scout alone in the driving rain with no protection simply because you felt you couldn't drive him home without another youth or adult, you would probably be convicted of negligence if something happened to the young man by your leaving him there. If you drive him home and he accuses you of sexual abuse, you're in trouble as well. You, in this situation, would have to ask yourself, "which is worse, leaving him to the darkness and the elements, or risking him saying something false about me abusing him while taking him home?" Sometimes common sense has to prevail. Take the kid home. Make sure he's cared for -- even if you have to find grandparents, etc. Make sure the parents know where their son is and that they are responsible for picking the kid up or making other arrangements. DS

I didn't want to hijack Rooster's thread -- it's a good one and it got me thinking . . . If you could sit across a booth in a restaurant with yourself at your current age and talk to yourself as he/she was at the age of 15, what would you tell them to do/not do? As part of the premise, take it that you were successful in convincing the 15 year old that he is you and you are he. Also take into effect that what the 15 year old takes to heart from what you say will effect the current you. Having taken the above into consideration, I would tell my young self very little. I would like to think that I would tell him that when his right testicle swells up unbeliveably at the age of 17, that he should go to the hospital right away even though it doesn't hurt and his parents advise him to wait until morning -- their advice and his lack of pain will lead to a childless although full of love marriage. On the other hand, I may not tell my young self that. I would rather have my childless marriage now than a loveless marriage with a child or children now. I think I would tell the kid-me to never smoke. However, I have learned much by standing outside with the smokers that I never would have learned had I been inside and smoke free. But what would I have learned and how much longer will I live had I never puffed that first cigarette? I'll never know and perhaps I should never know. I'd tell the kid (me, who at age 15 could think of no other woman than Treva) that plenty of other girls like him and if he let's go of the idea of a relationship with the unattainable, he'll have many pleasures with those he can't even see . . . but then again, that single-minded sense of purpose toward a single woman has led to a happy marriage of 12 years to a woman I adore with the qualities I only imagined were possible in the young woman of my dreams so many years ago. I'm guilty of too much philosophy, I suppose. What would you tell or not tell your 15 year old self if you could sit across from him/her at your age now? DS

I know we're benefiting, or trying to, our youth member friends. However, I honestly can't think of anything I would wish to change that would not change who I am, how I think, and what I have become. Like Dancin' I'm pretty darn happy to have gotten to this particlar spot in my life and am looking forward to the future. There are some things I wish I could do AGAIN -- Relive the Thanksgiving I spent with my mother, father, brother, maternal grandfather and grandmother, and paternal great-grandmother and great-grandfater. We had such a high time and a lot of laughs. Even if I could only sit there in that warm bask as a ghost I would be thrilled. Just the memory of it makes me smile and a lump form in the throat. DS

There's some flex in the area, but if the system is working properly, the IH should be the head of the organization -- they can delegate everything to the Chartered Organization Representative, including signing the charter, signing adult applications, etc. I always try to get the head of the chartered partner as the IH -- and they agree because all I'm asking them to do is their job as the head of the organization. Sure, they could, using the example of a church unit, the head pastor could designate an associate pastor as the IH -- but why? Any way they cut it, if all else fails, they're the person I would contact and would want to build a relationship with. As an amendment to what I just said, I once worked with a unit chartered to the United Methodist Men's Club of the First United Methodist Church. The charters was to the United Methodist Men's club and it's President was the IH. That didn't stop me from being concerned with who the Pastor was. DS

NJ asked: "One other thing I have never been completely clear on in this general area. If an IH decides to personally represent the organization without a separate CR, does he/she have to register as CR? Or can he/she simply be the liaison as IH? I guess another way of saying this is, do you actually need someone designated as CR on the charter, or can the IH fulfill that role as part of his/her leadership of the CO, without the additional title on the charter? (Now that I read what I wrote, I am guessing that IH does have to register as CR, because the "liaison" role is considered a "leadership" position and the BSA probably wants a registered adult (which the IH position is not) in that position. But if someone could clarify that...) " I love it when someone answers their own question and is correct. While the IH is not registered with the Boy Scouts of America, the Chartered Organization Representative is a registered position with the BSA. Unlike the Venturer signing their own application question, this is a "why" question that I am able to answer definitively. Each chartered organization in the Boy Scouts of America has one vote in the council. The chartered organizzation representative casts that vote on behalf of the chartered organization at the council's annual meeting. That's why it must be a registered postion. It's also why the COR has to be the same for each chartered organization regardless of the number of units chartered to that organization. DS

I'll answer Bob White's question in this post and get to NJ's in another post. Bob, you are correct in the minimum number of boys to charter a troop is the minimum. From page 9 of the Registrar Procedures Manual: "There must be at least 5 paid boys in a pack, troop, or team, and five paid members in a crew or ship. It is possible to register a unit with fewer, if special circumstances exist. The Scout executive may give permission to allow a unit to register with as few as two paid youth members. No unit can register with fewer than two paid members." As to the question of what happens if membership in a troop drops to less than 5 during the year, Bob White is also correct. The unit will need to recruit prior to rechartering and I'm sure there will be people willing to help. DS

Ahhh -- I wasn't sure what you were looking for. Call the National Scouting Museum. It's not part of the national office, although the buildings are adjacent. You should be able to find them easily on the internet or by calling directory assistance in the Irving, TX area. Ask for the archivist and give him/her the information you seek. They have a corps of volunteers who research such things and will get back to you with the best answer available within a few days. Good folk, they are. Yoda-talk. DS

I'd love to add to this thread, but Bob White has all the bases absolutely and correctly covered. Nice job, Bob. DS

Excellent post, Acco. I think the third part of the requirement is left vague deliberately. In reading it and thinking of my own life, I would have to consider my religious fellowship to be myself and my wife. We are both very religious, but I'm not much for church attendance. Before I forget, Laurie left out a three letter word that is very important when she said "the BSA . . . God is optional." No offense to Lauie, but the word she left out is "not." Her intent was good and she is correct, there is room in the BSA for flexibility in religous matters. The intent of the requirement is to get parents involved in open discussions with their children in matters of their personal beliefs, family beliefs and other important parts of spiritual development. DS

I find it offensive that anyone feel the need for "slings and arrows" on these forums. DS

Congrats to OJ! I know how important those "recharges" of getting back in touch with the program and the youth we serve. Having no children of my own, when I have a bad day or week as a professional, all I need to do is touch my old merit badge sash or look at my dingy, yellow, old, Cub Scout neckerchief -- hanging in my basement and realize that some district executive who busted his hump every day for the Boy Scouts of America and of whom I was not aware and would not have really cared had I been aware -- had little Dave Steele as one of his "numbers." I love this Scouting stuff, too. Oh, to be an SPL again . . . DS

Cubsrgr8 asked: "What's the internal process for getting my council to allow us to register for more than five?" I mis-read the question at first and thought, "Why don't you ask your district executive about your council's internal proceedures." On second reading, I think he's asking "who do I ask about this and how do I get it changed?" Please tell me if I'm putting words in your mouth. There is a lot of good information in this thread. Eamonn points out, correctly, that the matter should go through the council advancement committee. He's also "spot on" (right) about such policies usually are reactionary to specific cases like the ones he mentioned. You should call your district advancement chairman and inquire about the policy. It could turn out that there really isn't a policy, but that a guideline has been "hardened" once it reached through all the voices in the council. Or, you may have hit a council policy and it may be time for it to be re-examined. If so, request that the District advancement chairman bring it up at the next council advancement committee -- by having the district advancement chairman request that the council advancement chairman and request the topic on the agenda at least a couple of weeks prior to the meeting. That way no one is "blind-sided" and the meeting will go smoothly. DS

Bob summed it up very nicely, and I agree. DS

I don't have one in front of me, but what does the back of the Tour Permit say? Therein lies the answer -- maybe. DS

Campfire Fairy shows some guts. She is not the first youth to point to the struggle between two grown men (and sometimes I fall into the same hole.) She is not the first youth to do so. I know Hops has requested a hiatus in the battle between FOG and Bob White. I know I have as well, but I am also guilty of a bit of snickering that I sincerely regret -- with FOG and not with Bob White. I think that we all need to remember that we are all reasonable adults and that there are youth on these board that we need to provide the best example for that we can. We can feel free to disagree, but civility is important. Thanks, Hops. Thanks, Campfire, for reminding me of these obligations. May your courage be a constant reminder of the high threshold that us adults must meet and may you continue it in the future. So . . . do I rock, or what ? DS

I don't knonw the official answer to the registration card as part of the uniform inspection for youth as opposed to adults, but I can lay out some basic odds that may shed some insight: Odds that an adult will put his/her registration card in a wallet or purse or other safe storage -- 85% Odds that a Cub Scout or Boy Scout will put his registration card through both the washing machine and dryer -- 85% There may be a correlation there. DS

The boys can wear their uniform to any Scouting function. My advice to you is that if you're attending a troop meeting as a parent and parent is the role you're there to play, you should probably leave the Cub Scouter uniform at home. If you're going as a fellow Scouter, wear the uniform. DS

First, let me address the juvenille detention facility. Granted, 15 Crews are a stretch. I would also like to see more than 3-4 1/2 hour hands on sessions put on per year for the young men. However, what they are currently receiving is more Scouting than they have available to them through their situation. The membership fee must be paid and the members counted is program is being delivered -- whether they participate in a meeting a month, or daily, or hourly. Regardless of what anyone says, youth with valid driver's licenses are legally allowed to drive themselves to regular meetings of the troop. NJ -- If the juvenilles in question are getting program from Venturing, it would be inappropriate to register them as Learning for Life -- which uses a classroom based curricula and is focused, at the older levels, on career preparation. Twocubdad -- there are checks and balances on membership. Policies call for registration cards to be mailed by the registrar to the unit leader of record. Welcome to Scouting phone calls from a professional staff member, with no responsibilities for membership, to the unit leader. If the reaction is "I don't know what you're talking about," we have a problem. In my last council, the Finance Director was charged with making the calls. His job responsibilites called for no direct responsibility for membership. In some councils, that's tougher to do. In the council I currently serve, there are only DE's, myself, and the Scout Executive. Even so, I talk to every new unit and the DE's know it. Now if you can't trust me, who can you trust DS

OGE: Ya can talk, ya can talk, ya can bicker, you can talk, you can talk, talk, talk, bicker, bicker, bicker. . . Ya can talk all you want to, but it's different than it was . . . We can't steal lyrics without giving credit to the source We're stealing from The Music Man. DS

I know of no such proclamation. Venturers sign their own application. I don't know why. The conjecture that it may be difficult to explain to a 14 year old why they need a parent signature when a 18 year old does not, is as good as any, I suppose. The JROTC Crew we're working on is having it's first nighter Thursday. Those kids will sign their own application regardless of age. DS

I promised a story and it took me six hours to remember the promise. Here's a story of an early screw up I did as Scoutmaster. Young and new Scoutmasters screw up a lot and as long as they learn from it and no one dies, I guess it's okay. I became, through stories told in ealier threads on this board, a Scoutmaster at the same time I was the district executive. Early on, my troop (I wouldn't say it that way, but if I had not stepped on board at the time as Scoutmaster, the troop would have died) consisted of 5 boys: Brian, Vikash, Stephen, Michael, and a new boy, Andy. The district camporee weekend came up and my Scout Executive insisted that the DE be the first one to the camporee and the last one to leave. The camporee was a cool one. The troops would camp Friday night at the beginning of the new "rail trail" that ran along uprooted railroad tracks. They would all hike or bike down the trail to a park and have some activities. At the park on the same day was a Cub Olympics -- also a district event. The troops would then hike or bike back -- as it happened they could also canoe each way, although none did. As it happened, my troop couldn't come to camp Friday night, but would meet at the park and hike to the camporee from the park. They would camp Saturday night and leave Sunday morning. I asked my bride of 5 minths to lead the troop from the park to the camporee. After all, she was a fully credentialed teacher and they were only 5 boys. She has her Gold Award from Girl Scouting and they would be hiking with about 35 other troops on their way back to camp. I figured that this would leave me free to do the DE thing at the event and still be Scoutmaster. No sweat? Wrong! I met up with my little rag-tag troop at the park and my wife and sent them on their way -- after confiscating one boy's video games and telling Vikash that I didn't think he needed his full backpack, but letting him carry it anyway. Turns out that NO other troops were hiking back and my wife set off on this incomplete trail along railroad rocks (no ties, they had been torn up) with Vikash and the new boy stopping for a rest every 40'. I returned to the camporee site at about 5:30 PM and wondered where my wife and my troop was. All the other troops were back. Eventually, I started going south on the trial where my troop was headed North. I found them about 3 miles down this 5 mile trail. It had taken them 6 hours to go the 2 miles on the trail. My wife was fuming mad -- at me. The boys were exasperated. I thought "I've got my work cut out for me." I think I was referring to the wife (hoping she would forgive me) and the troop (hoping to get them above the .3 miles per hour trail speed.) Fortunately I accomplished both. The troop turned out fine and Mrs. Steele is still Mrs. Steele -- although she does the Appalacian Trail every year, she avoids Boy Scouts like the plague. I'd rather deal with expidition hats. DS

The movies the Last Boy Scout is a good one. It does have a tertiary relationship to the BSA. Bruce Willis's character was a scout as a youth and he does a good job portraying our values -- in spite of blowing everyone up and swearing a lot. Author Clive Cussler's main character, Dirk Pitt is an Eagle Scout as is Clive. Stephen King uses a Boy Scout as a character in his book, IT. There are other Boy Scout characters in the world of fiction, but I can't think of them at the moment. DS