dsteele

Perhaps I'm being too sensitive, but all too often, statements like this one, made by Adrianvs: "A problem just as large is the "official" of any level who sees units as cogs and tools which may be used to achieve some numeric goal and to which he is unattached. Out of touch with the real program itself, they fall back on simple quotas and turn into nothing more than pipelines." Are referring to guys like me. 99% of us do care and care very much. The other 1% tends not to last long. DS

Are you writing of Lord Baden Powell University of Scouting, held over St. Patrick's Day weekend in Lake Geneva, WI? If so, give me a holler when we get closer. If I'm still in the area, I'll stop by and see you. DS

I don't have any way to guess. Irving doesn't keep statistics on the Arrow of Light, so you should probably save yourself the phone charge and time to make the call. Perhaps the National Scouting Museum can hazard a guess. That's a different number than the national office of the BSA. The number for the National Scouting Museum is on their web site. DS

This is a great story. FOG's statement was also astute. Let's hope the Scout uses his reward money to buy Dad some lessons in our wonderful language. "He went through some flames; he got singed up pretty good," said Michael's father, Shane Wedekamm. "I'm proud of him. The boy did good." Jeez. DS

Neil: Just out of curiousity (and a bit of experience:) are the guys wearing the "old" council strip in protest the same guys who never had a good word to say about the old council before the merger? Dave

I think that what is checked by the council scout shop folks when purchasing knots, etc. is largely dependant on the person selling it. For the most part, they simply sell it in the belief that no one would wear recognitions they didn't earn or deserve to wear. Some people are more "picky" than others. When I was a young District Executive, I tried to purchase a Cub Scout uniform (I'm a little guy) to wear to boy talks in the elementary schools. Our Scout shop manager at the time refused to sell it to me because I wasn't a Cub Scout and therefore couldn't wear the uniform. After she left the employ of the council, I bought a Cub Scout uniform from the new manager, made a cape (of blue and gold satin) and a Zorro mask and Captain Cub Scout was born. Captain Cub Scout doesn't wear anything on his uniform that Dave Steele didn't earn, however DS

You post the requirements for quality council on New Year's Eve. DS

Here are the 2003 requirements for Quality Council. The * means it is required. "A National Quality Council must achieve six of eight objectives to qualify. Starred (*) items are required. Note: Carry out all percentages to one decimal place. *1. More than 60 percent of total units achieved the Quality Unit Award. *2. Record a 2 percent gain in traditional units and a net gain in total units including Learning for Life groups and posts. *3. Record balanced membership growth in total Cub Scouts, total Boy Scouts/Varsity Scouts, and total Venturers, with a gain in total membership including Learning for Life OR record a 2 percent gain in total Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts/Varsity Scouts, and Venturers, with a gain in total membership including Learning for Life. *4. Operating fund revenue must exceed operating fund expense for the current fiscal year. *5. HAve an active endowment committee that has secured additional new outright gifts for the current fiscal year. 6. Maintain approved staff size while increasing or maintaining the number of unit-serving executives (Note from DS -- a unit serving executive is one of the following: District Executive, Learning for Life Executive, Senior DE, Senior LFLE, District Director) 7. Have a current strategic long range plan (within last two years.) 8. Have a functioning key 3 (district chairman, district executive, district commissioner) in each district." Now you have the requirements for quality council. I was incorrect earlier when I mentioned commissioner ratio as being part of quality council -- that falls under quality district. The requirements are achieved or not achieved as of the end of the calendar year. DS

NJ: No need to apologize. No offense was taken. I just wanted to point out that blaming the professionals isn't always accurate. Now I'll see if I can find the requirements for Quality Council so I can post them. I don't think Adrianvs is going to be satisfied until I do so . . . and he shouldn't be. I think everyone should know what the standards are because that's the best way to get everyone on the same page, or at least closer to it. DS

Both are supplemental training and there is a great deal of flexibility in putting them on. I don't have national definitions for these because they don't exist in the way that New Leader Essentials, etc. exist. Generally speaking, Pow Wow refers to a Cub Scout leader training event. Many of these also hold Den Chief Training simultaneously, but not always. Generally speaking University of Scouting involves classes for one or more program's leaders. Either way, they're fun, educational, inexpensive (generally) and worth the time. DS

Fuzzy: Here's a free tip from a fellow left-handed golfer. When you watch the videos with the professional golfers in them, put a mirror behind you and watch them in the mirror. They become left-handed very quickly when you do that and it's especially helpful if you're a visual learner. DS

NJ -- I have no smoke coming out of my ears. I would ask, why are you so hasty to blame Eamonn's example on the professionals? Perhaps for the same reason people make lawyer jokes -- we're easy targets. I have seen a situation where a Council President, with the backing of his officers, has said to the Scout Executive, "You make Quality or else." Not "We" just "You." All that aside, let me answer the first three of Eamonn's questions as posted: "1. Why reaching the goal of Quality Council is do or die? 2. Other then the recognition of your peers is there some prize that is unknown by us mortal volunteers? (Yes I know about the plaque.) 3. How a Council with four districts, none of which are a quality disrict can be a quality council?" I'll take #1 and #2 simlutaneously. The quality council standards call for growth in membership and units, balancing the budget, 60% quality units, professional staff training, increasing unit commissioner to unit ratio, percentage of quality units, growth in endowment gifts, and operating key threes in each district. These are not arbitrary areas for councils. Missing in any one area will ultimately hurt the council's youth and hurt the program. It's more than a plaque and/or an atta boy. These are issues that are important to the movement and they are inter-related. Losing members drops income, drops camp attendance, hurts program, and lessens opportunities for us to be of value to young people. Running without a balanced budget causes financial troubles that lead to not doing camp repairs, going with staff vacancies, not being able to advertise, etc. Eventually services decline and with them membership and volunteers. A lack of quality units will lead to a loss in retention and ability to recruit new members. We're all reasonably intelligent people here and I really don't hear anyone saying that there shouldn't be a quality council/district award. Eamonn's argument is primarily about method and program I really can't comment on Eamonn's particulars, but I can tell you that if anyone added 300+ kids to their council, regardless of who is paying for it even if it is to save their employment is only buying themselves one year. One year to make up for the 300+ kids who are going to drop unless they get a program. I'd make darned sure they got a program. Now let me answer Eamonn's #3 question: "3. How a Council with four districts, none of which are a quality disrict can be a quality council?" It is possible for this to happen legitimately. Eamonn mentions none of the districts met it's financial goal. However, it is still possible (although not necessarily easy) for the council to balance the budget for the year through investment income, transfers of interest from the endowment fund, staff vacancies, cutting back expenses, etc. My council is in an unusual situation this year -- we have three districts, all of which made quality and the council will have a balanced budget. However, the council will not make quality this year because of a loss in membership. How can that happen? Well, for the past five years or so, the local school district has had a grant for after-school programing that resulted in 200 or so Cub Scouts (they did get the Cub Scout program) that were registered with the council, but not in a traditional district. The grant ran out this year and the program is down to about 40 boys. The districts met their membership goals, but not by enough to make up for the last 90 boys the council needs. By the way -- this becomes something of an ethical thing for me. I would be more marketable in the profession (a highly desireable thing for me at the moment knowing my position here has been eliminated effective March 31) to go out and find some razzle-dazzle way of signing up 90+ kids knowing that they're not going to be around next year and neither will I. I could do it. I could do it for only $900 or less. I hope you don't have to ask yourself what's stopping me. I hope you know. It isn't the $900. Back to Eamonn's questions -- #4, #5 & #6 need to be answered locally. As far as I'm concerned, the answer to Eamonn's #7 is, no, Eamonn, you're not wrong on that point. Dave

Let me deal with the easy part first. From section 23, page 13 of the latest Cub Scout leader book: "Cub Scout Den Chief Qualifications: Be an older Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, or Venturer who has been a Boy Scout, ideally at least First Class rank." So the short answer to the short question is "No." The Den Aide question takes a little bit more. NJ is correct that he found some national job descriptions. Den Aide is one of the topics that was touched on when I went to National Executive Institute in 1989. The job description presented to us was very similar to the one he posted. I think there may have even been a patch. There was at least a logo. The position was designed mostly as a way of recognizing the big sister who helped out at den meetings. Once it kind of disappeared from the literature, however, the idea lived on. It never really seemed to catch on -- in my opinion it didn't catch on because big sisters had always been out there helping and calling them a Den Aide did neither harm nor good. I think it's great if a female Venturer wants to work with a Cub Scout Den. It seems to me that calling her a Den Aide is as good a term as any. DS

I am not ignoring this thread. I need some time to compose a reasonable response. In preface, I do not have enough information to defend or decry what the council in question is doing. Eamonn, I trust, but he is a bit emotional on the topic. Bob White is correct, as usual, in his assessments about what quality council/district mean as well as echoing my sentiments about cheaters. Please understand that I need to tread carefully here, but I will respond. From time to time I need to think about things. I've learned that I give better responses when I think things through . . . which doesn't come easily for me. When people ask me, "Hey, Dave! What do you know?" I answer, "Not a darned thing! If I knew anything, I'd have a real job ;)" Later, DS

Glenn of Canton: The beast is the issues and politics forum. It has awakened and will not get any prettier with the passing of time. Eh Bien. What comes will come. DS

Retorical (sp) question: Has anyone else noticed that the beast of "issues and politics" has remained quiet for the past couple of days? I'm grateful for the respite. God bless us, every one! DS

Eamonn -- correction accepted. 15 isn't too young to find a wife. It's just too young to actually marry her. Dave

Congratulations. Consult your District Executive for the details and the paperwork. Let me know when the first one earns the Quartermaster Award! DS

My apologies to Roger. You were looking for gift ideas for your son, and I gave you philosophy. Let me address your question more directly. Give him something from your youth or adulthood that is meaningful to both you and him. The most precious Scouting thing I have are my father's original Wood Badge beads. He gave them to me when I earned my beads and I had them awarded to me instead of the ones I earned. When I got my third bead, I took the two beads off my three bead set and tied my Dad's on in their stead. My father is still very much alive, but someday he'll be gone and I'll have the beads. I don't think it has to be something Scouting related. It's great if it can be, but I don't think it has to be. I think there's something special to both when a father says, "Son, I'm real proud of you. I want you to have this. It means a lot to me, hang on to it." DS

Originally I was going to post that I got what every Scouting professional wants that is Scout related for Christmas -- nothing. But, on reflection, I realize that's not quite true. I got something very important for Christmas, and, to me, it is very much Scouting related. I got my perspective back. It's been a little skewed of late; tainted by trepidation and a little self-pity. My wife and I left Wisconsin about 6:00 Tuesday evening, hoping to make it through Chicago unscathed by traffic and spending a night somewhere in Indianna on our way to Eastern Michigan. When we got to Michigan City at about 8:30, the snow was coming down pretty hard, so we decided to stay for the night at the Holiday Inn. My wife went to bed right away, and I got bored watching television. She's a morning person and I'm very much a night person. I left the room to play pinball in the holidome and take my mind off the elimination of my position. I didn't have much holiday spirit at that point in time. In fact, I hate to admit that in that mindset I was viewing the holiday as a pain. The holidome was closed, so I headed to the bar. It was a Damon's restaurant and they had sports on all of the many televisions in there. There were two people at the bar, eating a late supper. I sat down on the other side of the U shaped bar and the bartender -- a nice young man -- poured me a draft. I asked if he could change the channel on the monitor directly across from me and he obliged. Changing the channel for him wasn't as easy as it sounds. He went to the control station -- but it didn't let him see what was on my monitor. From across the room, he flipped channels until I gave him the thumbs up sign when he landed on the evening news. Then a group three men and a woman in their early twenties came in. It was pretty obvious that this wasn't their first bar of the evening. They weren't overly obnoxious. They were a bit loud and wobbly. They had the bartender jumping left and right mixing them toxic concoctions that no sane person would order, and he did it with a smile. A period of time passed and I lost track of the twenty-somethings while I talked Scouting with a man and woman from town (I think I talked them into contributing financially to their local council.) I was about to leave. I had charged my $8.00 tab to the room and added a $2.00 tip, which I felt was sufficient for bringing me two beers and changing the channel for me. Then the twenty-somethings cashed out. The bartender walked up to start cleaning up and I heard him say, "A dollar tip for a fifty dollar bar tab? Thanks a lot!" Then he walked away. The twenty-somethings went through their pocket change and came up with another $2.?? in coin to add to the tip and then beat feet out of there to go to the next bar. I felt that was unwise in the middle of a snowstorm, but that's just me. Then it hit me that the bartender doesn't get much in the way of hourly wages. He relies on tips for his bread and butter. Here I had been feeling sorry for myself because my current job is going to end, but I had plenty of cash in my pocket and will, in the end, end up somewhere in the BSA, with at least my current salary if not higher, and am in no danger of missing a paycheck in the process. I had no idea what kind of financial situation the bartender is in, but was pretty sure it isn't as good as mine. As he cleaned up the glasses (there were many) from the twenty-somethings, I called him over. I handed him a $10.00 bill and said, "Merry Christmas. This is to cover them." At first he refused. He said, "I'm sorry you had to hear that. They were in here before and did the same thing. I've got diapers to buy." I said, "Take the money. Merry Christmas." He took it and thanked me profusely, which embarrassed me a bit. I went to bed and slept well for the first time in days. I later wished I had given him a twenty, but that's too much to tip. DS

My hobbies: Quilting -- I really love making something from nothing and fabric seems to bend to my will and the infinite possibilities inherent in each project intrigue me. Sewing garments for my wife. I don't do it as often as I should, but when she ends up wearing something that fits her (I customize the patterns to her measurements) and someone asks her where she got it (because they want one just like it) I glow a little at her response: "My husband made it for me." Of course, no one asks her where she got those silk pajamas . . . Along the "something from nothing" end . . . I make lead/tin miniatures, mostly chess sets, and paint them just like your Grandfather did in his youth. Check out www.castings.com if you're interested. It's a neat hobby. I also enjoy golf. I'm not good at it, but you know the line from Tin Cup . . . When all else fails, I like reading Clancy, Cussler, King, Historical fiction, and anything to do with the Titanic. DS

I recall receiving a plaque. It's gone. I recall receiving a paperweight from the council -- it's gone. I got lots of letters of congratulations. The one I actually framed was from my District Executive and may be a contributing factor to my demented choice of career I no longer have the letter but I thought it was pretty cool. I agree with Scoutleader -- the best thing I received was the medal and all the stuff that it comes with (the non-physical stuff, I mean.) I still have the medal, and, I hope, all of the non-physical stuff. DS Postscript -- Eamonn, isn't 14 a little too young for OJ to find a wife?

I just got back from travelling over Wisconsin, Indinanna, Illinois, and Michigan over the last four days. This is the first forum I've checked tonight and will be my only post for the day. I can understand MollieDuke's frustration, and empathise with it. The records issue and transfers is a difficult one, and part of it has to do with Scoutnet -- but it's a very small part. In terms of transferring between units and even councils, the paper record is the most important. Whether we're talking about a Cub Scout rank advancement or an Eagle Scout required merit badge or anything in between, when the system is followed, there is a record that is acceptable on paper in at least three different places: 1) the Scout's handbook or blue card, etc.; 2) the unit records or copies of the advancement report, 3) council copies stored in the unit file on advancement reports. Those are deliberately listed in order of priority. The breakdown often happens when a kid loses his book, or the unit stockpiles badges and doesn't file the proper paperwork with the council. This is pretty frequent and results in trouble for the transferring Scout. The council is usually blamed for not having the records, but if the troop/pack, etc. never filed an advancement report because they bought a bunch of second class badges from some other council, how is your council supposed to have record of who received it? Packsaddle hit it right on the head, and is not violating any sort of policy -- he goes to the old troop for the records of the incoming/transferring Scout. There's a reason the advancement record for transferring Scouts (I forget the official name for it) does not get submitted to the council service center -- it's a unit to unit form. The council is obligated to keep on file the records submitted to them for a specific period of time. Unfortunately, if the record is never submitted to the council, the council can not keep it on file. Unfortunately, many times, all councils manage to check is whether the recipient of a rank or other advancement is eligible is to check their registration status. Serious scrutiny doesn't come into play until a major advancement -- such as Eagle Scout or Gold or Silver are concerned -- and then it may be too late. Units need to make sure they file the proper paperwork with every badge in order to maintain accurate records at the council office. I'm sorry, Mollie, that you're having trouble with your son's records. My advice is to make sure his handbooks are properly signed and that you encourage every unit he participates with to keep accurate records and file the proper paperwork with the council -- even if you have to recruit someone to do that for the unit. DS

I would have to research it a bit, but I'll venture (sorry for the pun) a guess based on what needs to be done to turn a troop into a varsity team. You won't get my researched answer until after the first of the year (fair warning.) I'm just puttering around until my wife gets home and then it's off for Michigan and Christmas with the family. From a paperwork standpoint, I believe the charter for the Crew will have to be allowed to drop and new charter paperwork be filed for the Ship. In essence, the Crew would die and the Ship would be new. The unit tenure for the crew would end. In the end, to the council count, the number of units will remain the same. Because Sea Scouting is a part of Venturing, the membership in the council will be unaffected, so you should not receive any resistance from the professionals. From a program side of things -- which is what I'm sure you're mostly concerned about -- I think you would have expanded opportunities. Changing to a ship could change your uniform (Sea Scouts have the coolest uniforms, IMHO) as well as titles of youth and adult leaders. It does expand the advancement opportunities -- you can work on Quartermaster as well as Ranger and both are impressive awards. I say, go for it! There will be paperwork to fill out -- new applications all the way around. Your council can provide these: Youth applications, adult applications, new unit application, etc. It is not a matter of simply changing something on the charter paperwork when it's time to recharter the crew. I'll check, but I'm pretty sure on this one. Best of luck to you! DS

I've seen Wood Badge beads presented at: Roundtable, District Dinner, Unit affairs, handed out in a paper bag, etc. It all depends on what a person wants. In one council I served, most beads were presented at the council's annual Wood Badge dinner. Sometimes that was the second time they were presented, but the idea was that presenting them there would encourage folks who had not attended Wood Badge (the target audience of the dinner) to attend. That's where I got my beads. It was cool. Of course, that was 10 years ago. Thing have probably changed -- or have they Dancin'?" Dave