dsteele

Eamonn: I don't disagree that uniform parts (particularly Venturing uniform parts) are expensive by normal retail standards. The Venturing stuff -- pants, sox, etc. seem particularly well-made and hearty. In fact, I had to drag my venturing shorts behind my car for three weeks and bury them under my front lawn for three seasons before they were soft enough to bend at the thigh, but that's a slight exaggeration. However, take a look at the labels on the price comparisons you made. You'll find that most of them were only assembled in the United States (the fabric and parts came from other parts of the world.) National Supply will only buy and sell 100% American made products produced by Union Labor. It's an economic axiom of sorts -- limit your supply and you raise your cost. Higher costs means you sell at higher prices. And the profit margin on uniform parts is below retail margins. National supply makes money on recognition items and accessories, but not much on the uniforms. DS DS

There are some very good points (and the original question is a good one, too) on this thread. I remember vividly my Eagle Medal. I remember when, where, and how it was awarded. I remember how it felt on my chest and how proud I was to wear it at every opportunity as a youth Eagle Scout. I also remember being cautioned by some adults that it was inappropriate to wear it at certain times and in certain places. I can also remember listening to those adults, but I wasn't happy with it. However, thanks to them, I can now go upstairs and pull that self-same medal pinned on my chest 25 years and three months ago and hold it in my hands. The red, white and blue ribbon is now brown, tan and purple but it's the medal I was awarded. There is no replacement for it. Sure, I could buy a new one tomorrow, but it wouldn't hold the same sentimental value as MY Eagle medal. I urge youth to wear it only on occasions where it will not get hurt, lost, or in their way. FScouter and MrScout referred to the rules of wearing medals for adults. Adults are less likely to lose them, but some adults need reminders that the Eagle rank stands alone in the Boy Scout program as an earned medal of rank. There are times when it is appropriate for adult Eagle Scouts to wear the medal -- mostly, IMHO when they are honoring a young Eagle Scout. Otherwise, philosophically, I'm inclined to agree with Mike Long, who said in this thread, "I wear my Eagle 24/7. Not the badge or medal, the real eagle, and that's what matters. I would hope that it would be obvious to everyone what I am through my words and actions. Proud? Guilty as charged " I try, brother. We all should. DS

I can answer only as a by-stander. I am not a parent. I would pay $100 to the first person who could get a kid out with a quarter. Man, I've paid $3.00 in quarters trying to rescue a hulk doll (plastic) for my nephew. Anyone who can get a 7 year old out with a quarter and in for free is a hero of mine! As for what Dan said, I got a grin out of that too (thanks Dan, I've needed a grin for a while.) He said: "I would have taken the phone away from "dad" and ground it underneath the heel of my shoe." You must have some pretty big feet, Dan. It was a pay phone that Dad was on . . . not a cell phone The question was raised in the article of what the other folks in the lobby were thinking when they didn't stop the kid from crawling into the machine. My theory is that they never thought he'd make it and didn't know what to do when he did. Of course, as a cheesehead transplant who spent most of his life in Michigan, I wonder where Wisconsin folk learned to spell the name of the town. Sheboygan? In Michigan, it's Cheboygan. I mean if they can't spell the name of their own town, how are they supposed to stop a kid from crawling into a vending machine, let alone find a way out for him? Having a bit of fun with this . . . DS

Congratulations FloridaScout! Welcome to the pride, privelidge and burden of being an Eagle Scout. You'll hear it in your Court of Honor: You are now a marked man. Your name and reputation are now tied to mine (and vice-versa) as well as the name and reputation of every Eagle Scout who ever was and whoever will be. Bob White is correct that you are an Eagle Scout Candidate, but don't let that dim your celebration. You have done everything in your control to earn the rank. National will check signatures and registrations, and your local council has checked advancement records and signatures as well. I was told when I passed my Eagle Board of Review that it had to be approved by national and spent the next six weeks worried that it wouldn't be. Unless you're some kind of un-eaglescout like guy and no one knows it yet -- you're fine and just waiting for the authorization from National. The few Eagle Scout applications I have seen that were returned from the national office were because they were missing a signature here or there, or there were simple date errors. These were taken care of by the local council and the Eagle was approved. In the meantime, congratulations. Keep on serving future Scouts! Dave

Wingnut: I'm sorry for your district's loss, but, it sounds like their time had come. I hope you all rejoiced in what you must have gained from these Scouters while they were with us. I once had a Scout Executive tell me, as we were riding to a volunteer's funeral, "If you believe in any sort of an afterlife, death isn't so bad." The funeral was for a fellow Kiwanian of mine who was a retired Scout Executive. He was a cool old guy, but had been sick for a very long time before he passed away. It was a great service. Scouts opened with a flag ceremony. His daughter sang "On my Honor," and the pastor delivered a eulogy built around the piece I'm about to include. It didn't do anything that I'm aware of to help Art Henry (the deceased,) but it went a long way to comfort those of us who mourned him. It's by Roselyn Aronson and I got it from Family Life Radio. "OH, MR. TENTMAKER" "It was nice living in this tent when it was strong and secure nd the sun was shining and the tent was warm. But, Mr. Tentmaker, it's scary now. My tent is acting like it's not going to hold together. The poles are weak and they shift with the wind, a couple of the stakes have wriggled loose from teh sand, and worst of all, the canvas has a rip. It no longer protects me from beating rain or stinging flies. It's scary in here, Mr. Tentmaker. Last week I was sent to the repair shop and some repairmen tried to patch the rip in my canvas. It didn't help much though, because the patch pulled away from the edges and now the tear is worse. What troubled me most, Mr. Tentmaker, is that the repairmen didn't seem to notice I was still in the tent. They just worked on the canvas while I shivered inside. I cried out once, but no one heard me. I guess my first real question is, why did you give me such a flimsy tent? I can see by looking around the campground that some of the tents are much stronger and more stable than mine. Why, Mr. Tentmaker, did you pick a tent of such poor quality for me and even more important, what do you intend to do about it? ______ Oh, little tent dweller, as the Creator and Provider of tents, I know all about you and your tent and I love you both. I made a tent for myself once and lived in it on your campground. My tent was vulnerable, too, and some vicious attackers ripped it to pieces while I was still in it. It was a terrible experience but you'll be glad to know they couldn't hurt me. In fact, the whole occcurence was a tremendous advantage because it is this very victory over my enemy that frees me to be of present help to you. Little tent dweller, I: am now prepared to come and live in your tent with you, if you will invite me. You will learn, as we dwell together, that real security comes from my being in your tent with you. When the storms come, you can huddle in my arms and I'll hold you. When the canvas rips, we'll go to the repair shop together. Someday, little tent dweller, your tent will collapse (for I've only designed it for temporary use.) When it does, you and I will leave together (I promise not to leave before you do.) Then, free of all that would hinder or restrict, we will move to our permanent home and together, forever rejoice and be glad." This piece doesn't speak to everyone, but it spoke to me. Sorry to hear about your loss. DS

Commandopro: Thank you for the apology. It is accepted and appreciated. Welcome to the forums. Now that there are more of us here, perhaps we can help make things easier for all concerned. There are good people on these forums and I enjoy finding out what's on the minds of volunteers around the country (on and off the mainland.) Sometimes we learn stuff here from the volunteers -- like the fact that I had no idea that National can issue another Eagle Scout certificate. I haven't had a chance to look into it, but it does make me wonder what I ever did with mine. Anywho -- welcome. Dave

Commandopro: I have received your reply. Thank you. I will think about it's contents. I can assure you that I spend far more time on the needs of my council than I do on the needs of this board. I hope everyone understands that they need to ask questions locally and that I in no way intend to undermine any other professional. Where do I find the time to answer -- usually when I'm at home. Occasionally, when I'm at the office, but in those cases it's when I need a reference I don't keep at home. I, like many other professionals, am often home at strange hours, but that's because I work strange hours. Sometimes I post at 4:00 in the afternoon before beginning paperwork or a meeting at 7:00 PM. Sometimes I work on paperwork at 10:00 PM after my wife goes to bed. DS

Achileez: Before using sarcasm on these boards, I suggest you have a few more posts under your belt. Let people get used to your sense of humor. I was insulted by your posts as well, but now I see what you mean. No, as a rule, I don't think Americans are afraid in their daily lives. If your government and media want to make us out that way, they're making the same mistake the Japanese made in 1941 and Al Queda made in 2001. Americans don't mind looking soft . . . but we really aren't. It seems like the world forgets it every fifty or sixty years. The British forgot it in 1775. The Spanish forgot it in 1812. The Mexicans forgot it (I forget the year, but do remember the Alamo.) Pancho Villa had to learn it the hard way. The Germans forgot it in 1916 and again in 1939. As I said, the Japanese forgot it in 1941. We fought hard in Korea and did some good there. We lost in Vietnam, but not entirely. We helped forge a democratic nation that would not have existed without our help. In the 1990's, we liberated Kuwait. In 2003, we liberated Iraq. I understand that you're on our side, Achileeze, but if your friends need a reminder that the United States of America is united and that it's people are strong, I suggest you have them come have a cup of coffee in Wisconsin. DS PS -- I don't understand the reference to Zed and eh. What's that about?

Fuzzy: I'll give you an A for the effort DS

Ed: Laughter doesn't come easily to me at the moment, but you brought it. Thanks for the offer, but I don't think anyone needs to be beaten up. Someone needed to laugh however, and you did bring me that. Thanks! Dave

I think that all goals should have a bit of stretch in them, but they should be achievable without having to forsake everything else. In pro-speak, the stretch should be at the Far Exceeds level -- not at the expected performance level. Some examples of stretch goals: When Kennedy said he wanted a man on the moon by the end of the decade -- that was a stretch goal. When Roosevelt said, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself." That was a strech goal. We had plenty to fear. When Kruschev beat his shoe on the table at the U.N. and said, "We will bury you." about the United States, that was a stretch goal. Thank God that one wasn't met. When a Scout Executive says, "We're going to have a 20% increase in (what have you) popcorn, camp, etc. it's probably not going to happen unless the volunteers and professional staff buy into it. That isn't a stretch goal . . . it's a set-up. Unless everyone buys into it. If that happens, anything is possible. DS

Recently Wisconson has been debating changing the law to allow citizens to get permits for concealed guns. I grew up and spent most of my life in Michigan, where it's a non-issue. In Michigan, getting a concealed weapons permit isn't a problem if you meet the requirements and I like the idea of not knowing who has what and where. I trust people. I did have to laugh at an old boss of mine who made his ugly girlfriend carry a pistol in her purse in case someone tried to rape her -- she was stone ugly, but to him she was beautiful and that was enough for me. If someone had tried something against her she would have blown his head off and another Darwin Award would have been won. The concealed carry law lost in Wisconsin. I don't approve. I know of at least three people murdered in the last month in a bar shooting -- the killer didn't want witnesses to the $300 robbery he got. Perhaps it would have come down differently or not at all if we had the concealed carry laws. However, we'll never know. At the moment, I have no desire to own a gun. However, if I take a job in downtown Detriot, I'll probably change my mind. On the other side, I do like the laws that make applicants for gun permits wait. If you're in a hurry to get a gun, you probably shouldn't have one. DS

Thanks for the reminder, Eamonn. It's daylight now and I'm much more calm. In retrospect, I'm really glad I didn't post the stuff I deleted. Truth be told, I'm much more worried about our cat (one of three) who is in intensive care at the animal emergency hospital in Milwaukee. I know he's just a cat, but he's been part of our family for 13 years. Part of me hates to see us spending serious money to try to stem the tide on his kidney and heart failure, but we love the little beasty and if that's what it takes, that's what it takes. DS

Eamonn: The answers you have received in this thread so far are on target. Charter partner approval and the Scout Executive (or designee) approval are the key. The only automatic out that I'm aware of is convicted pedophelia. DS

Commandopro: A couple of questions that I have sent you privately: Are you a professional Scouter? What is your title and tenure? In short, who are you? There have been two other professional Scouters who posted on these boards during my brief time here. Both answered the above questions before I could ask them. One moved on to become a Scout Executive (RMV) the other is a Field Director in California.

I post this only because Commandopro seems to be lost when it coems to private messages. Click on send private message on the left if you want to send me a message. If you're not receiving the private messages I have sent (and who knows who else has sent) then click on "edit your profile" and enter the correct email address for yourself. That's where the private messages will show up. I really hope you private message me, Commandopro. I'd like to help you out. I'm angry at you, but that can pass. I'm getting tired of typing stuff and then deleting it, so I'll stop. Done with the last delete. This does lead me, Mr. Commandopro to two pieces of advice I'd like to leave you with: 1. Stop calling yourself commndopro. We don't need such dramatics to do our job. 2. Stop using language such as "intense pressure" and "crisis of epic proportions." These terms only serve to scare good volunteers and are not necessary. I've deleted a bit more . . . To any who feel I've said too much . . . please accept my apologies.(This message has been edited by dsteele)

Thanks for the responses, folks. I appreciate the defense. I have sent commandopro a couple of private messages and he has not responded. Perhaps commandopro doesn't know how or chooses not to respond. That's all I'm going to say at the moment. When I get angry on these forums, which I try not to do, I get messages reminding me that I am supposed to follow the "high road." I appreciate those private reminders -- those of you who have sent them. DS

There's a famous (and very good) musical play called "How to Succeed in Business without Really Trying." It's about a guy who finds a book by that title, reads it, and breezes through. in the end, it doesn't work out so well for him, but forget that part of the story. There is a book that can work wonders for Senior Patrol Leaders and I suggest you pick up a copy and read it if you don't already have one. It's called Senior Patrol Leader Handbook. Buy it, read it, do what it says . . . and you'll do just fine. Best of luck to you in your new responsibilities. Dave

Mothballing camps and council mergers are never pretty. Hard feelings come up and last for years and years. It's too bad, really. When it comes down to it, the Scouts who are the real bottom line, don't know any better . . . until they hear adults grouse about the new, current situation. DS

Sounds like OGE wants to retire and become Hagrid! Sorry, just watched Harry Potter on HBO yesterday. I guess it stuck. DS

It sure felt good talking to Mr. Breyefogle formerly Scoutmaster of Troop 234 in Kalamazoo, MI. He's my old Scoutmaster. We couldn't talk for long. His family -- actually extended family -- was there, but it sure was nice talking to him. We relived some old memories. And he's still proud of this professional Scouter that was born in his troop. DS

You've caught me. I was actually supposed to be the staff advisor to LBPU in 2003, but got transferred between councils after only two months on the job. It remains a great source of Scouting info. Call me when you get here. The number for the Southeast Wisconsin Council is listed in the Racine, WI area. My extention is 20. DS

I'm going to call my old Scoutmaster (not my father, the original Scoutmaster) right now. Wishing him a happy new year will be good for him (he's real proud of his Scouting professional) and theraputic for me. Thanks for the reminder. DS

Postscript to my most recent addendum to this thread: Adrianvs -- I in no way assumed you were speaking about me personally. I was merely pointing out that the people who don't know council level professionals are quick to assume that we're just meeting numerical goals and are detached from the program and do not care about their unit. Tout Le Monde: We do care. We have numerical achievements we have to meet, but every one of those numbers is important to the overall health of Scouting. I do admit that I could care less what the patch looks like for the camporee, (fill in the event) or even whether we have one. The event needs to advance the ideals of Scouting, have sufficient attendance, not lose money, and be meaningful to the youth who participate. Scouting needs to grow in membership, provide a good program, provide good service to the volunteers running units, and have its financial needs met to provide for the previously mentioned. Eamonn's spud is a prime example. What started with sharing a potato led to a wonderfully symbiotic relationship between a woman and the Boy Scouts of America. I'm okay with the use of "my." I say "my position" referring to Assistant Scout Executive because I feel comfortable doing so. I don't feel comfortable saying "my council" because I'm just moving through and because I'm the #2 guy. I'm cool with the Scout Executive or Council President, Board Members or Officers saying "my council" and indeed encourage the ownership implied. But also because I don't get hung up on semantics. Eamonn provided a woman with a potato. So who's potato was she eating while he recruited her? Was she eating "his" potato? Was she eating "her" potato because he had given it to her? Does it really matter? The goal was to recruit her. Any way you look at it three things happened: 1) potato all gone 2) person recruited 3) boys benefitted That's the bottom line. Eamonn: Any district chairman that can recruit is the right district chairman. Get emotional, it's okay. Get frustrated, it's okay. Recruit and build the base and that's how we grow. DS

Intersting that this came up today. Let me preface by saying that I don't want a gun. I don't have a problem with gun owners or guns, I simply don't want one because I don't target shoot and don't feel the need to spend the money to buy one for my protection or any other reason. If one were given to me, I wouldn't refuse it or throw it out. I'd lock it up and it would sit. You can own a gun and keep it in your home, or, if your state allows, in your pocket. I don't have much feeling one way or the other. However, if one had been in my house last night, I probably would have dug it out. I went to bed late -- after trying to stay up past 1:00 AM watching the extended version of the Two Towers -- and something woke me up at about 3:00 AM. When I walked out of the master bedroom (we have a ranch house with three bedrooms.) The three are all along a corridor directly in front of the front door. Anyhow -- the front door was open and for all I knew someone had just come through it. It was closed when I went to bed, although I was not the last one through it. Somehow traipsing through the house in my underwear and carrying my new golf club in front of me as my only defense was not as comforting as having a .38 would have been. After all, I'm a better shot with a .38 than I am with a driver. Fortunately, my wife had not shut the door completely and it was an easterly wind that opened it and not a homeless person or a burgaler. In retrospect, I suppose I should have dug out my sword cane (I actually have one) or at least taken the head cover off the driver. DS