dsteele

FScouter, thank you for going back to the source. The way I read it, there's a lot of flexibility there. It's up to the troop to provide the opportunities so a Scout can earn First Class in the first year. The reason, according to my reading of the text, is not the earning of the badges, but the aquisition of the skills needed to enjoy the outdoors in earning the higher ranks. I'll leave the sleeping dog of the NSP to lie sleeping . . . but I did notice it said NSP was "One" of the best method and not the "only" method (of getting Scouts acclimated.) Just my interpretation of writing that seem open to some interpretation. Unc.

Heron: First of all, welcome to the forums! It's been a while since I've worked closely with Boy Scout camp, but I may be able to give you some specific advice you may find helpful. 1) Don't think of yourself as a medic. Your official title should be "Health Officer." I don't say this to be petty. I only seek to broaden your definition a little bit. As Health Officer, you have a duty to look at the overall health and well being of the campers, adults, and staff. For example, if there is extreme heat, you should be warning participants and staff to drink plenty of water and keep an eye on the color of their urine. (I didn't say it was a pretty example 2) Take a look at the National Standards for Boy Scout Resident camp and make sure you're in compliance. Your Camp Director has a copy. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have been hired if you didn't fit the bill, but it's worth a check. Make sure the camp director has copies of your certifications. On the day of the camp visitations, have the actual copies on your person. You'll probably be asked for them. 3) Don't overlook having a copy of your own health form on file. Often a Visitation specialist will ask to see the Health Officer's Health form because that is the one (along with the camp director's) that is most often missing. It's a valid question, though. What if something should happen to YOU during camp? 4) Your camp will have a set of standing orders from a physician. Make sure you read them, know them, and follow them. If you have questions, call the physician and ask. Do not hesitate to call that physician during camp if you have issues that arise. His/her name will be listed on the emergency phone numbers near the camp telephone(s.) 5) Follow those national standards I mentioned. One of them includes locking up medications. Even the ones in the refridgerator. 6) Log every medical incident you take care of. Initial or sign the log book at the end of each day. 7) Understand that homesickness in young scouts (and sometimes staff) often manifests itself in phantom stomach aches. My suggested treatment method is to give the young man attention through an older staff member or fellow Scout to take their minds off the trouble. 8) If a kid doesn't show up to take his meds at the appointed time, seek him out. You probably knew that one already, but thought I'd throw it in for good measure. 9) Even though I'm sure it will be part of your staff week training, take Youth Protection Training on your own. Look for an online link on your council's web site. The YPT for camp staff is different than the YPT for adult leaders. As Health Officer, you have much to protect in camp, including yourself. 10) You'll do a basic health check with each camper when they check in. I'd advise you to spend a few moments discussing what to look for with the camp physician. You will be in a position to spot things others may not have noticed such as unusual bruises, cuts, or cigarette burns on a child. Finally (and this is the last bit) although I like for most people to have interesting experiences -- I hope that your tour as Camp Health Officer is uneventful or even boring. A bored health officer is a good health officer. The one who is constantly running from emergency to emergency needs serious evaluation. Have a great summer. No. I was never a health officer, and I never played one on television. But my wife was a health officer. She was bored a lot. Unc.

I second Hunt's post. There's a reason Scoutmasters are selected and and approved by the chartering organization and committee chair. That reason (reasons) include their judgement and character. True, sometimes, it's simply their willingness to serve, but that horse has been beaten to death in other places. I applaud the ability of a Scoutmaster to use his/her judgement in the application of the program. Hunt is correct . . . there's a reason service projects require Scoutmaster approval. Yes, it's true that some mis-use it, but let us hope they don't remain Scoutmasters for long if they do. Most Scoutmasters I've worked with over the years are very fair and balanced in the application of their judgement and their signature on the things they are to oversee. Unc.

Eamonn: Quiet! You're going to wake our friendly neighbors to the North. Besides, we can't surround Canada -- you fall off the edge of the earth if you go too far north. Unc.

Eamonn -- I knew that. However, your comparison doesn't stand. Unlike Canada . . . The Italians have the Vaticans completely surrounded! Unc.

This appeared in our local paper today. I thought the questions were well thought out because they seem to give everyone a choice they can live with. Some of the percentages surprised me. I some were smaller than I thought and others were larger. The source of the poll is AP Ipsos-Pubic Affiars pol of 1006 U.S. adults, 1002 Canadian adults, 1000 Mexican; 1014 French, 963 Italian, and 1001 British. Interviews were done in May. To save time, I'm only going to list the US and Italian results. I chose Italian because of the Vatican being there. "Q: Which of the following statements comes closest to expressing what you believe about God? U.S. Italy I don't believe in God 2% 6% I don't know whether there is a God, and I don't believe there is any way to find out 4% 5% I don't believe in a personal God, but I do believe in a Higher Power of some kind 11% 8% I find myself believing in God some of the time, but not others 2% 10% While I have doubts, I feel that I do believe in God 10% 18% I know God really exists, and I have no doubts about it 70% 51% Not sure 1% 2%"

My spidey sense is tingling. As long as you gentlemen keep it polite, I hope you enjoy the discussion. Unc.

Baden: Having driven a van through the Jamboree, please allow me to tell the others this: Baden will be easiest to catch when he's in the van. Because of the sheer number of pedestrians, he'll be going as slowly as they are. So if you see a guy in a kaki shirt driving a van, be sure to say HI! Unc.

Realizing that un-solicited advice is often unwelcome and usually worth exactly what you pay for it, let me offer mine. I think the way you guys are talking about hoping to catch each other at the Jamboree by visiting one another in different areas is not going to be successful. Let me suggest this: Pick a date and time and meet behind the welcome center near the main parade field where all the flags are. If you don't know where that is now, you will be the time you spend a day at the Jamboree. That's the easiest way I can think of for the most people who want to meet each other for the first time can do so without interfering with other goings on at the Jambo. I would not suggest trying to meet near one of the gates at one of the shows ... there's simply too many people moving through at once and it won't work. I don't think it matters what time you chose . . . someone or someones will not be able to make it due to shift and duty differences, but a bunch is better than hit-or-miss wander my way methods. You may also increase your ability to get together if, on the appointed day, some secret signal is exchanged -- such as turning your left shoulder loop deliberately upside down until the seam shows. Unc.

Eamonn: If they're going for a speed record, I suggest eliminating the use of ropes. Scouts rappel very quickly with nothing to slow them down. Of course, you won't get many repeat customers Unc.

I only raised my hand so moderator did not become a secret club. Don't worry about the state, Terry. It's in good hands I fully intend to enjoy the forums as before. Unc.

NW -- From what I've read in this thread, perhaps it's best left to the new moderators to raise their hand and say hi if they desire to do so. I'd be quite content to moderate quietly and as an unknown. But I'm not going to. Sometimes it seems that nothing attracts attention more than a mystery. I'm one of the new moderators. Unc.

I'll play this game later. Someone please give me a rag! I have to wipe the results of my "spit take" from reading Semper's post from my monitor! I think it was the image of the four black sox with the Bermuda shorts that set me off. Thanks a lot, Semper! Unc.

Not to cloud the issue with what makes sense to me, but what the heck? It makes sense to me (if there's nothing specifically prohibiting it) for youth at the Jamboree to wear the patch of their Region while attending the Jamboree. Here's my thinking . . . The The troop number on a boy's shirt identifies to others who don't know him, with his troop. The council strip further identifies the boy (or Scouter) to others which council they belong to. This is sufficient in most cases, even in multi-council events such as Pow Wows or Universities of Scouting, etc. The Region patch will be helpful at the Jamboree to at least narrow down what part of the country the council, and thus the boy, is in. This can generate conversations, etc. Besides, why rob a boy of a patch he can/could wear in a once-in-a-lifetime experience . . . especially if no rule prohibits it? Now, you must belong to my little club of "if it doesn't say you CAN'T and you can't think of a reason or find a reason to not do it . . it may be okay to do it. Where we get into trouble is when we look for reasons an existing rule does not apply to our situation. There's a difference. My .02. Unc

Amen, Eamonn. Unc.

I don't know if I'm all wet or what, but I feel like the Lone Ranger on this one. It's too late to thank the fallen men and women who have served in the armed forces. Please take the time to call those living veterans that you know and than them for their service. It doesn't take long and sure seems to go a long way in terms of their feeling the gratitude we owe them. It doesn't take long to make a few phone calls and say "Thank you." I do appreciate the parades and the flowers and the flags to those who lost their lives in service to us as free citizens. I truly do and also thank those who serve in that way. I'm just also sensitive to serving those who have served us who still have a pulse, a beating heart, and a history of service. Selfishly, I also enjoy hearing the occsaional story (they don't even realize the valor they share.) Monday, one of the guys I'm going to call is a survivor of the Battle of the Bulge . . . it will be the umpteenth time I've heard his story and it will be a long phone call, but I look forward to it. Another is a veteran of both WWII and Korea. Another was a POW in Vietnam. All of these guys (in this case) have something to say that should be heard. Whatever you do on Memorial Day, it should be more than ribs on the grill. Take some time to honor our heros . . . both living and passed. Happy Memorial Day. If you're here, thank a veteran. Unc.

I want to see our district become one where every hand is outstretched in a warm handshake to everyone who has an interest in seeing Scouting grow and advance within our limited geographic terroritory. I want to see it become one where everyone feels a duty-bound sense of honor to futhrer Scouting in every sense of the word -- financially, through membership growth, through strenghening current units, to maintaining standards. In short, I want us to continue to be the quality district we earned last year. Due to council redistricting, it was actually the first year in our district's history. So it also happened to be our first year of quality district. I want that to continue to be the standard of program we offer to our youth. Other opinions may differ on what the requirements for Quality District should be . . . but our district (I hope) will always meet whatever the national standards are. They are set by smarter people than us . . . and by meeting them, we lay the framework for a quality program for every youth we serve. Okay ... if someone will loan me a step-ladder I can climb off this soap box now Unc.

Like most of you, I've seen really good commissioners and really bad ones. I'd like to think I'm one of the good ones. I've sat in commissioner meetings where some old guy either a) gives a false report on the status of his units -- meaning he has no contact but sits there and says they're doing fine, or b) he asks the DE how his units are doing. I expect a DE to know how the unit is doing, but the first line should be the commissioner, not the district executive. However, there are a number of commissioners out there who do visit the units, or at least talk to parents and leaders within the unit on a regular basis who are very helpful to the unit. There are also units out there who want nothing to do with "council" and who see commissioners as council spys who come in to inspect what they're doing and make adverse reports. Rather than grouse about the commissioner corps ... here's my question to the group at large: What are you prepared to do to fix it? I'm a cut to the chase kind of guy. Are you prepared to become a unit commissioner once you're done with your obligation to the unit you serve? Will you take the proper training? Will you agree to serve another unit rather than the one you're currently registered with? It's not a tough job to be a unit commissioner. You just have to do it. Visit the unit, keep them informed, help out and know when to shut up. I also think it's incumbent upon the District Commissioner (I've never been one of those, so I apologize to those who have) to have the guts to retire ineffective unit commissioners and move them to the Scouter Reserve. If it's tenure they chose to ride out, put them in the back 40. Unc.

I will spend my Memorial Day in the same manner I've spent it for a number of years. I will be on the phone calling every Veteran that I know and thanking them for their service to the United States of America. It's grown to be a rather long list, but the calls are short (by necessity) and seem to be much appreciated. I'd make the calls on Veteran's Day, but since I have to work on that day, I chose to make them on Memorial Day. If you're a veteran and in case I miss you, please accept my thanks for your service so that my family and I may live free. Unc. PS -- Dancin' would you give me a call with G.L's number? I'm afraid I've misplaced it.

Welcome aboard! Ask any question that comes to your mind and I'm sure someone will have an answer . . . just realize that your best answers will come from local council resources. Having said that, I can tell you that hanging out here is a lot of fun! Don't be shy. Hit the post button any time it strikes your fancy. Welcome. Unc.

Guys: I don't doubt you, I'm just looking for the reference. Where and when did national say the next Jamboree would be in 2010? I must have missed a memo. Unc. PS -- tout le monde -- these guys are probably right. UG

LPC -- I come not to shoot you, but to help you. You are operating under two incorrect assumptions: 1) The 13 year old Scout is too young to attend the Jamboree. 2) The Jamboree is held every five years. Both are incorrect. To attend the Jamboree, below are the requirements from the National Jamboree web site found at www.scouting.org "Boy Scouts and Varsity Scouts must be at least First Class Scouts. They must have completed the sixth grade or be at least 12 years of age by July 1, 2005, but not have reached their 18th birthday by August 3, 2005. All Boy Scouts and Varsity Scouts must participate in a prejamboree training experience; file a complete Personal Health and Medical Record prior to the prejamboree training; have been active in a troop or team for at least six months prior to July 1, 2005; and be approved by the unit leader and local council." Secondly, the Jamboree is held ever FOUR years. The next one will be in 2009 . . . unless someone knows something I don't know. I'm sure there are rumors that they'll wait until 2010 to celebrate 100 years, but I doubt it. I remember that there was a strong rumor that suggested that a Jamboree would be held in 2000 to celebrate the new millenium . . . back at the 1997 Jamboree, but cooler heads prevailed. So, I think the answer is that your 13 year old Scout can attend as a youth. If he would like to attend this year's Jamboree, it may still be possible. There may be a neighboring council that has openings if yours does not. Or, he can go in 4 years when he's 17. I hope this helps. Unc.

It has taken me a while to figure out what was tickling the back of my brain on this topic . . . but that train of thought has finally hit the station and here it is: Why isn't the Eagle Scout proposing what HE wants to do to the Scoutmaster? Why are our disembodied voices debating the Scoutmaster's leadership skills and utilization of resources. Not to attack the Eagle Scout, but I would expect and Eagle Scout to have a clear vision of how he wants to be a part of the troop and to do what he can to enact that vision. If his vision is different than his Scoutmaster's, that's a different issue. Unc.

The decision to earn the rank of Eagle Scout in the Boy Scouts of America is a singular decision. It requires the approval of several adults, true. It requires following a process, meeting requirements, a lot of work, but there is truly one and only one person who decides who will earn Eagle Scout and who will not. That decision is entirely up to each and every Scout. Period. End of report. Before I go off the diving board here, let me tell you in case you haven't picked up on it. I earned my Eagle just a few days or weeks shy of my 14th birthday. I'm getting sick and tired of desparaging remarks made about young eagles and there are plenty of them in the world out there. Ironically, they seem to come from people who have either never earned the rank of Eagle or who earned it sometime between being 16 and 18. But that's beside the point. The point is that all earned the rank. Actually, that's only one point. My point is that whether or not the Scout decides early on that he wants to be an Eagle Scout and does as much as he can as quickly as he can to earn the rank, or whether he comes to the decision at a later age and does the work more slowly (but still within the age limit,) what you have at the end of the day is an Eagle Scout. The argument against young Eagle Scouts is that a) they come from a troop that is an Eagle "factory" or b) their parents pushed them and/or did it for them. Let's take a look at those: A -- the troop Eagle factory This can only happen, and even then the chance is very, very slim indeed, if the process is not followed. In other words, if the troop pushes kids through the advancement program, they must also bamboozle the district representative/district board of review (whichever way your council goes) into approving the candidate. The troop must have either faked dates on the eagle application, or be extremely precise in meeting them in order for the application to pass muster through the district advancement chairman, the check at the local council, and the double-check at National. B -- the parents pushed them into it (or did it for them.) First of all, if the kid earned Eagle at 13, can we not agree that he's probably headstrong in one way or another? Have you ever tried to convince a headstrong 13 year old of anything? You may be able to "muscle 'em" but you're not going to convince them of a darn thing. When it comes to older Scouts, you've probably heard the same stories of parents and leaders trying to push the kids to complete the requirements as I have. I've heard of everything from "You can't go to the prom unless you're an Eagle Scout." to "You can have this car I've put on blocks for you the day you earn Eagle." I find that those threats don't really work . . . the kid has to decide for himself whether or not to earn the rank. I do agree that some Eagle Scouts grow beyond what was needed to meet the requirements and, like a good wine, get better as they get older. But let us not forget that even freshly made wine is still wine . . . no matter how much better it may be once it has aged 10 years. Whether you earn Eagle at age 18.99 or at age 12.99 -- when you're 30, 40, 50, 60, you are still held to the same standard expected of an Eagle Scout by Mr. or Mrs. John Q. Public. Thanks for letting me get this off my chest. Unc.

Has anyone else noticed that the people who are the first to get upset and threaten to not support the council financially are the same people who don't give much to FOS (If at all)or sell much in popcorn or attend the council camp? I remember the first guy who told me he wouldn't give to FOS because he didn't like the way the Executive Board voted to do something or other. I took $25.00 out of my wallet, put it in an envelope and wrote "Anonymous FOS contribution" on it. That increased the "withheld gift" by 20%. Unc.