dsteele

I think abusing prisoners is a terrible thing. Interrogations, as KS said, are uncomfortable if they are to be effective. I agree that the behavior of the soldiers I read about in the paper is deplorable and should be punished, but not as far as firing Rumsfeld. It's not like there's an edict with his signature on it authorizing the torture of Iraqi prisoners. As far as them seeing each other naked, I understand cultural differences, but it's no big deal to any soldier who's had to share a shower room. Heck, it was mortifying when I was an 11 year old Boy Scout and had to take a shower at summer camp, but we got over it. This isn't a conservative vs. liberal issue, it's war. There will be errors and atrocities on both sides. I think the best we can hope for is to have very little of each on our side and get rid of thsoe who do commit the crimes. I also think these recent posts have been a little rough on GSMom. I am very proud to be an American who hope it was simply using too strong of a term on her part, but remember she's living in a country where SHE's probably being blamed by the common guy on the street for something she had no control over.

The above would be the "finders, keepers . . ." argument. I agree with it. Unc.

1. I think you should use as many different cheers as you can find. There are probably a lot on the internet, as well as in the books you can find at your council's scout shop or trading post. I can't help you with the chemical starter, I don't know anything about it. 2. There's no requirement that every wolf parent attend every meeting, but it could be nice if you can get it. Yes, a parent may count for the two deep leadership, but one leader must be registered with the BSA. I hope this helps. Unc.

The information you're looking for is in the National Standards for resident camps. On a military installation, it shouldn't be tough to find a qualified medic to be the health officer for the camp. It sounds like they'll be "on site" if not right in the area of the camp. It's been a while since I've looked at the standards, but I think you're okay as long as there's an established location for contacting the health officer. Unc.

I have to admit that the price jumped out at me before the drinks in hand did. It sounds like the council has built a nice dinner that raises some funds. As to the youth being there, it doesn't bother me much. Their parents know what's going on. Odds are that they have the occassional drink in front of their sons. The boys probably don't think much about it. As to what the boys gain? I think they gain a nice experience in a place they would almost never see until adulthood and that it broadens their horizons. They may come to realize that there is more to Scouting than the dining fly in the rain. Some may say that the boys are being robbed of their young ideas, but I think it's part of growing up. Unc.

Merlyn: I'm very glad these threads weren't the first I read on these boards. You seem to be a reasonable and intelligent, if very stubborn, man. I'm sorry you don't believe in God. I'm sorry that you seem to wish others do not. However, it's been my experience that most do believe in God -- different forms and persona, perhaps, but -- most have a belief in God. My question to you is what harm does a belief in a Supreme Being have that you are so opposed? If there is no God, then we all die and there is nothing. No harm done for believing in life. If there is a God and you proclaim there isn't one, he's going to be pretty ticked off according to everything I've read. Then you're fried when you die. So what's the harm in believing? Unc.

Eamonn: I'm all for it. Perhaps instead of the admonition, we could have the password be the words after "I'm going to work my ticket" in the song. Wouldn't be super-secret, but wouldn't be easy to get into either. If it's any consolation, I can't get into the OA section either, and I do know the admonition, just as you do. Unc.

Now you guys are causing me to remember my first campout as a Webelos Scout about to cross over. In retrospect, it was the best of times, it was the worst of times . . . It was the district Klondike derby. I shared a tent with three of my fellow Webelos. First campout in Michigan in the winter isn't the brightest idea, but the troop had trained us well. Or so we thought. My dad was the cubmaster of the pack we were coming from and planning to become an assistant scoutmaster. I remember marveling at the icicles hanging of his moustache. I remember the Scoutmaster sitting on a bale of hay when it caught fire. I remember being suprised at how fast the old guy could move when his butt was on fire. I remember laughing when the hay bale caught fire a second and a third time and he stubbornly sat on it. I also remember curling up inside my sleeping bag thinking I was smart because I remembered to take my snow-mobile boot lilners into the bag with me. However, when the boots froze shut in the morning, I kind of regreted the decision. The propane in the tanks for our stoves froze. As did the milk, the eggs, and everything else we had. In retrospect, it was miserably cold that night. but it was the best campout ever! Unc.

Actually, from what little I've seen (meaning a few Boy Scout applications) the requirements for Scout are called "joining requirements." They do include reading the child abuse tear out in the handbook, and a Scoutmaster conference. I think the Scoutmaster conference should be conducted right away and the boy awarded the Scout badge as soon as feasible. Our district Boy Scout Chairman showed us the advancement report from the council at the last commissioner meeting. Scout isn't shown as a rank. Unc.

Growing up in Scouting, we never had women on our troop campouts. I don't think it occurred to anyone to have them come or not come, one way or another. There were mothers involved in the troop committee, but none as Assistant Scoutmasters. Never gave it much thought. flash forward to the early nineties when I was a Scoutmaster, and picked up 18 Webelos. One of the Mom's came aboard and came to every campout with her son and husband. She was wonderful to have around. There were a couple of other moms who attended campouts as well. They were no problem. They were the Moms who understood. The ones that didn't come on the campouts were my problem -- "Why did you let him go the whole weekend without brushing his teeth!?!" She didn't like my answer of the fact that they are HIS teeth, and not mine. She's the one who should have taught him to brush . . . and I wasn't about to chase him to the water-stall to do it. She wasn't the only problem mom, but she was, like the others, one who was never on the campout. I'm not sure that's a bad thing. Unc.

I have to respectfully disagree, slightly, about the party thinking. I have never quite had the guts to check the straight ticket box. I look at each candidate on an individual basis, but 95% of the time they're all in the same party. There have been a few local exceptions. When in doubt, I vote for a member of the party I prefer. But there's a reason I prefer one party over the other. I like the general party philosophy. Candidates running on that parties ticket (either party's ticket) lean toward the basic same philosophy and I vote for the philosophy rather than the person. I don't think that's uninformed voting. It may not be the best method, but at least you know the party. Unc.

Although I fully understand that Scoutmaster Ron doesn't want to lose an able assistant over a rule by the CO (which, I'm afraid they are able to have) my advice for the assistant scoutmaster is to beat feet outta there and start a new troop somewhere else. If some of the boys and adults from the old troop follow her, so be it. I wouldn't recommend she try to drag them with her. Just make it clear where she's going and go there. I do think that the district leaders need to be aware of the COs rule. It may point them to symptoms of other problems within the troop. There's not much they can do about it, but they should know what's going on. Unc.

I'm either a moron or have a pretty darned good mental filtering system. When a political ad comes on for my candidate, I think, oh, it's an ad for so-and-so. and don't really pay attention to the ad. When an ad comes on for the opposition candidate, I think, it's an ad for The so-and-so. and don't really pay attention to the ad. It's a happy little life I lead. Unc.

Green Bar Bill was a very real person, Eamonn. I never met him, but have a picture of my father getting his autograph on a Scout Handbook. I don't know of any biographies written about him, but I haven't looked either. Unc.

Getting a beating on the left shoulder by a seven foot tall man wearing white or being stared at real hard by a man 5'7" tall wearing authentic garb, does the ordeal mean any more or less? I must confess I'm one of those "what" rather than "how" guys. Unc.

Has the individual in question filled out an adult application to be a registered BSA member? Unc.

The military does it the same way you do. Day, month, year. Makes sense to me. Unc.

Neil, I couldn't be more in favor of your position if I wanted to be. Excellent post and I, as a young Eagle who did it myself, couldn't agree more. Great job. Unc.

Thanks, Mr. Old Guy. Actually, I only wear analog watches, too. but there's a date thing in there somehow. Unc.

Laurie: I'm rather surprised my name reminds you of guinea pigs. You hit it right on the nose. I'm an uncle and I once ate a guinea pig in a country where, in the deep back country, they are a staple food. They taste like gamey chicken but with a slightly different texture. I can't watch them in a pet store or someone's house on their little wheels without envisioning them on a spit in a hut with a grass roof.

This isn't a weighty topic, but I thought we could have some fun with it. Let's talk about your wrist watch (if you use one.) I woke up this morning and decided that I no longer liked the watch I bought when I moved into my last town. It was too thick, had features I never learned to use, and looked nerdy. Actually, I was bored this morning and ventured (interesting word) to the mall to buy a new watch. I was hoping there was a kiosk with several interesting watches, but there wasn't. So I ended up at Sears, of all places, looking at watches. I like a leather band, so it was easy to ignore the ones with metal bands. If I want a bracelet, I'll buy a bracelet. That's my theory. Anyhow, I settled on a 30.00 dollar armitron with a clean face and a cheap leather band. Then went downstairs and bought a good leather band and had it adjusted, etc. My only problem with the new watch is that it tells you what day it is and what the date is. My theory on that is if I don't know what the date is, that's not abnormal, and I'm glad the watch can clarify it for me. My problem is that the watch tells me what day of the week it is. I figure if I can't tell what day of the week it is I should cash in my chips and start talking to the flower pot. I really don't understand the watches that tell you what month it is. Comments? Unc.

LPC mentioned the "O" word -- I mean ordeal, so stop smirking. Actually, his ordeal isn't a real ordeal (or heavy burden) so as a Mom, don't worry. It's not a fraternity "hell" week. He'll eat less than usual (for breakfast and lunch) and will be more quiet than you can possibly imagine, and then go through a feast and a ceremony and come home with a shiny white sash with a red arrow on it. That's what lpc was referring to that you're paying for in the cost of the weekend. There is available, and perhaps provided as part of his registration fee, a small arrow suspeneded by a white and red ribbon that will hang from his right pocket. You posted that your husband is an Eagle Scout, but that does not mean that he was in the order of the arrow. I've met other Eagle Scouts who were never elected by their peers to the OA or chose not to get involved if they were. My congratulations to your son. It's pretty cool that he was elected to one of the few organizations where a member is elected by his peers -- including non-members. It truly is an honor that he's a candidate (until he completes the Ordeal.)

I'm interested in hearing what the grandfather's issues with the issues were. Can you enlighten us?

Fat old guy: You asked boleta "My question remains, why cannot BSA simply state that leadership for palms may be outside BSA." I don't think boleta can answer the question any more than I could.

My personal favorite to lead is "The Cat Came Back." Very bluesy and the crowd only need to learn the chorus. The favorites in the troop I grew up in were "Trail the Eagle," and "Do your ears hang low?" "Green grow the rushes ho" was a great one as well, but the only one who really knew it was the SPL and once he moved on, the song went with him. Of course, back in the day, a good rousing rendition of "Mountain Dew" was a great use of campfire opening time. However, current PC practice has just about killed that tune. I remember it, though, and secretly sing it in the shower from time to time. As a kid, I didn't know they were talking about moonshine. I thought it was about that green soda. Then someone taught me the Scoutmaster version of "Head, shoulders, knees and toes." It's called "Head, shoulders, belly, belt."