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OK... a pet peeve... yelling "Signs Up!"

One of the surest signs of membership decline is the lack of Scouters coming to this forum to debate adult square knot insignia. I swear that used to be every other thread around here pre-COVID. 😛

Yesterday my attorneys contacted me and informed me that my claim amount had been determined. After years of anxiety about what the outcome (I truly believed I deserved the maximum amount) my claim came in at 2.67 million. Yes, I know I will most like only get a fraction of that amount but the fact that my pain and suffering was valued at that amount is the most important aspect. In all honesty I cried, just like after 50 years of telling not one soul I finally opened up about what had happened to me. With the appeals and the court cases that may come up I know that this is not over yet, but I finally feel like I have crossed third base, and I am on my way to home plate. Over the past 22 hours I have thought quite a bit about how I have survived these past 6 years and the people that have given me moral support. I have reached out to those folks and thanked them. I now want to reach out to my survivor community on this forum and say thank you, without all of you I do not know how I would have made it. Thank you to Scouter Forum for giving me a place to vent my frustrations, state my opinions and allow me to interact with other survivors and not kicking me off the site. Thank you, moderators, for your patience. I am sure some of my posts made some of you cringe. I want to thank @ThenNow for always having my backside no matter how outrageous some of my posts were. Our DM's to each other always made me feel like I had a brother standing next to me. I want to thank the TCC (I am sure there are members here on Scouter Forum). I know that all of you took on an almost impossible thankless task that was never going to please everyone. One last thing (at least for now) @skeptic please no sad or confused faces. Maybe this will be the one post that you can give a green up arrow to that I have written. Thank you all, John

The other day I was in the grocery store doing my regular shopping. As I walked in I noticed another gentleman look my way. Not sure if he knew me or just saw me wearing hiking clothing. He asked if I was in Scouting and was shopping for a campout. I said, yes I am in Scouting but if the scouts were going camping THEY would be doing the shopping, I would just be the driver. He nodded and said, "good man". Anyway, thought I'd share the story here with you all.

Unpopular opinion I'm sure, but: Eagle Scouts who can't congratulate a new Eagle without making it about themselves and mentioning that they are an Eagle (usually along with the year they earned it as well). Why not just a "Congrats, huge achievement, best of luck in your future endeavors."

Professional scouters that have clearly set goals that focus on raising money (for what nobody knows) rather than focusing on actually growing the program A National Organization that continues to believe the infrastructure needs to be reflective of the 70's (almost 5 million) rather than today (less than 1 million). Get rid of councils and overhead.

Had a good conversation with our COR last nite. Helps he is also a former SM and knows all the challenges I face in that role. We are on the verge of folding. He know it, our adults know it, and the Scouts may know it. We need one more Scout in order to recharter, and we are going full throttle on recruiting. Our DE says they can help us get into the schools. I hope that is true and he follows through, but the council's record on that is poor. But as Gandalf the White said, " There is always hope, a fool's hope." We will be doing our annual fundraiser as if we will be rechartering. Goal is to raise enough money to pay national and council fees, and summer camp. We will continue Scouting on. Back up plan is if the troop does not recharter, pay for everyone's, both adults and youth, registration and council fees, pay for summer camp, and save the rest to restart the troop at a later date. I am sticking around as SM until December 2026. I have idea on someone to replace me, but want to get them up to speed.

Tomorrow I head off on my first Scout week trip since the summer I turned 19. Back then, the troop consisted of my Scoutmaster who had been in the troop since 1933, the ASM who had been in since around 1960, my friend and fellow 18 y/o ASM, me, and three kids we recruited out of the 5th grade class of our old school at the beginning of the school year. We had a great time at our old camp - water skiing, motorboating, pioneering, a float trip, an overnight canoe trip, and various evening activities. I haven't been to a council camp/merit badge factory since the summer before I quit Scouting in 6th grade. We'll see how this goes. It's my son's first one. I intend to keep my distance from him as much as possible. He'll need to be his own person at the end of July when he attends another camp.

An April evening... Troop 544 was having their weekly meeting at their Scout Hut when law enforcement arrived to report a missing autistic child in the area. The scouts quickly organized into search patrols led by older members and an assistant scoutmaster. As temperatures dropped and daylight faded, the group found the child hiding in bushes and stayed with him to offer comfort until first responders arrived. Scout Salute, More at source including photos and map. https://www.nwfdailynews.com/story/news/local/2025/05/21/scout-troop-honored-by-okaloosa-commission-for-helping-to-find-child/83773869007/

A lot of these issues are caused by councils not planning MB events far enough out in advance using MB classes / events as profit centers Fixed it for you

One of the things that has I have often felt as a leader is that the concept of breadth in merit badge options should be reinstated. IN the fifties and sixties we had the required badges of the time, but also a "selection" from a number of categories which broadened the picture. It was similar to the once required college breadth for graduation that included classes from the less common areas, including art and music. That, in my opinion, leads to a bit more depth of knowledge and the world in general. What might be the thoughts on this being reinstated in a more modern manner?

Over the decades I have heard many youth exclaim "i'm gonna kill you", and never was it an actual death threat. Heck my little sister would say it to me when I teased her. It was/is a common expression kids use. It might not be appropriate, but calling it a death threat is over the top.

When I first took over in January of 2025 I saw myself staying as Scoutmaster for at least a year or two after my youngest aged out. He turned 18 this week, and I'm stepping down. I'll be taking on the role of Eagle coach instead. The biggest challenge was time, made worse by the lack of parent involvement in the actual running of the Troop. Of those who were willing to volunteer time, I'd say about 80% of them only wanted to be in an administrative type position - committee member, advancement chair, service chair, etc. Of those who were ASM's, one never came camping even on the trip they were in charge of organizing, and one needed to be hand-held through everything to the point it was faster and easier for me to do it myself. (Crazily, this parent is an Eagle, yet can't cook a meal or put up a tent that isn't their own.) Anywho... it's been great, and awful, and everything in between. God bless those of you who are in this role. I figured I'd share the message I sent to our Troop after the latest political issues, because I think it's a message that's needed no matter what we're facing, but didn't want to clutter the other thread. Although I have just one more week as your Scoutmaster, I wanted to issue a statement of support for ALL our scouts, our friends, and our families. I wholeheartedly believe in the overarching mission of Scouting, which is "to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law." That doesn't change how we are meant to treat others, no matter what is said by outside individuals or administrations. Trustworthy and Loyal means a scout can be relied upon to act with understanding, Kindness and Courtesy in their interactions with others. Scouts should strive to be non-discriminatory and Helpful to everyone around them. In short, the same principles that Baden-Powell espoused when forming this organization still stand today. Do your best to continue to be the amazing young people that you are.

Question: Don't all three pictures show them not paying to go see the game? (stealing) While everyone paid for their seats.

We've had similar experiences with various sports coaches and then specifically baseball coaches when the more sports oriented son settled into that. Almost all of them were good and many, especially in baseball, were supportive of scouting. I think one big difference I've seen in youth athletics overall is that bad coaches, unlike bad adult scout volunteers, generally don't linger. The volunteer shortage in scouting means the organization seems to hang on to almost any warm body, no matter how problematic. The existence of umpires and league arbiters also mean that the kinds of rule and vague policy questions that plague scouting, and are the source of numerous social media sites and posts, are resolved more efficiently in sports. As for adult scouters, one possible reason is I think scouting experiences are much more fragmented and individual. One adult might have been in a unit that camped all the time; another adult might have been in a unit that was more advancement driven; another in a unit that was very integrated with a religion; yet another with one that was influenced by military connections and philosophies. When they re-experience it with their kids, it can seem completely different and offputting and definitely more complicated. Sports, on the other hand, can seem almost universally familiar. There have been rule and equipment changes but pretty much youth basketball, football, baseball, soccer players are playing the same game their parents did no matter what part of the country they were from. It's easier to re-onboard with and more understandable. They don't need as much training to be functional.

Your idea isn't new; the BSA has made these kinds of promises since the creation of the program. I do agree that at this age, cost isn't as much of an issue as the cub program, but a results-based program is very subjective. And most of the time the adults go the easy route of Eagle for their results-based program. However, youth at this age aren't advancement-driven. I found that most Eagle-driven programs lose 70% of their scouts by age 15 because advancement gets boring. Adventure-driven programs thrive because they are fun in the outdoors, and because independence in the patrol method drives more maturity in their growth. Go look at units where scouts age out, and you will find they are more scout-run with adventure. Also, adventure-driven programs typically have a high number of Eagles because the scouts are in the program a long time and earn the Eagle requirements by simply participating. Barry

It is dying. And the majority of folks do not want to put quality control measures. They want 'High Speed, Low Drag" advancement and increasing the number of Eagle Scouts. They would rather celebrate the 13 or 14 year old with all 130+MBs than the troop that is doing trail work on the AT, or the troop running Red Cross evac stations.

Having worked in various joint commands in plans (J5), exercise (J7), and operations shops (J3), I have to tell you these things are FAR from free. Military exercises, deployments, employments, redeployment, and reconstitution (after the fact) are quite expensive, in fact. Literally hundreds of millions of your tax dollars are spent on these each year to maintain unit readiness. Difficult to stage? yes... Scarcity of opportunity? no. Quite the opposite. Military commands at all levels routinely have to cut exercises and practices from their schedules to support various "hobby horses" or "pet projects" the military is tasked to support based on political pressure. The National Jamboree is a good example of such a "pet project." Do the units supporting these get good training? Absolutely. Could the resources spent on the Jamboree be better used supporting other valid military training objectives? Absolutely. Do I support the use of military resources to enable the Jamboree? Absolutely 😜 (Sometimes the troops would rather support something at home like this, rather than flying to a third world country to practice their "wartime" skills there.)

In my opinion this is a sign of burnout in the leadership. In my opinion you want to meet every week unless a holiday falls exactly on the meeting day. What I have seen personally is that units who are looking for these excuses are suffering burnout in the leadership. The two week gap screams to me that the leadership is burned out and that their scouts are probably in a situation where they don't need the meetings to advance so it's just a burden meeting to those families.

I cringed when I read the term "Family Troop". My initial reaction was, "there's the final nail in the coffin of the Patrol Method".

Adults wearing Eagle rank patches. Not the square knot, the oval. And I'd personally let it slide for an 18 or 19-year-old, but I'm seeing too many 50-something men wearing an oval Eagle rank patch.

Seeing advancement become the sole purpose of scouting, then watching it get watered down to one and done and finally watching people in scouts wonder why parents don't put their kids in scouts anymore.

There's two things here, maybe related, maybe not. As an outsider with few years dealing with BSA (not involved with the settlement at all) I see things more from a corporate and legal lens. I agree with the assessment that doing the settlement fund piecemeal (going after councils, CO's, etc ... ) would have created a vast array of have and have nots. So many guilty parties (councils, units, charter orgs, perps) no longer exist, which would have prevented victims from seeking any restitution. I still struggle with these funded vs hypothesized fund numbers. What I know of nationals resources and debt and the councils local to me is that there really isn't much money out there, especially at the councils whom are mostly operating hand-to-mouth. To the discussion of Scouting America being around in the future; I have no doubt that Scouting America will be here in 100 years. I do think Scouting America will look a lot different, a lot more like how I understand scouting was 100 years ago. I think national is going to have to divest itself of a lot of physical property in order to get out of debt; maybe only Philmont surviving. I think the number of councils is going to shrink down to less than 100 (I think this will happen in the next 10 years). I think the number of council owned properties (camps) is probably going to shrink down to around 50 and start to get run more by professional adult camp staff and less by summer volunteers on a 4 season operational plan (the days of 7-9 weeks of summer camp run by barely paid OA seeking volunteers is coming to an end).

In 1989 when aged based patrols became the recommendation instead of Traditional, mixed aged patrols, that was the beginning of fall of the Patrol Method. In 2012, when they no longer allowed patrols to camp on their own without adult supervision, that furthered the fall. In 2018 when they no longer allowed patrols to have any day activities, i.e. patrol meetings, hikes, camp shopping etc, unless 2 registered adults over the age of 21, that nailed the coffin shut IMHO.

Going from memory here, so bear with me. One of the reasons for better quality control is that there are a lot fewer professionals, so there is no pressure to increase membership numbers. As a result volunteers are empowered more to do things. If a group of volunteers want to clean up camp to prepare for an event, they contact the camp warden (ranger) and Bob's your uncle, you can do it. I know of councils where you have to go through the council office and SE in order to have a work day, and they may even deny it! Another thing is that their standards when I was there had not changed. "One and Done" was not a thing. Emphasis on advancement, and Queen's Scout was not existent, compared to the pressure in the US. I have had folks tell me HA is a was a of time because there is little to no advancement involved. Instead their focus was on skills and adventure. Finally, they held their Scouts to higher expectations/standards. It was not uncommon for their Scouts and Ventures to go on a week long expedition without any adult supervision as part of the DoE Award program. Even today they do "Remote Supervision" as defined as: "Remote [Supervision] ‑ Where the Supervisor remains out of sight and hearing of the team and allows them to get on with the expedition without any intervention ‑ The Supervisor will have a good idea of roughly where the team are and how they are progressing ‑ This is the norm for the majority of practice expeditions and all qualifying expeditions. It allows the Supervisor to: ◦ Periodically observe the team without intervening ◦ Allow the team to make mistakes and to recover from them without outside intervention ◦ Support the team by remaining remote yet in the expedition area and able to intervene if absolutely necessary or if requested."

Here's a slight modification to @Eagle1993's comment about ditching the lions and tigers. Cubscouts was originally meant to be pre scouts, not it's own thing. The question is what would a cub program look like if the goal were to get every scout to bridge over? Just my guess but a 3 year program that was fair weather camping would be a start. Very little else. If the goal is to camp or play outdoors from May to September then it's pretty easy. Tie it to the troop so those kids see the scouts doing their thing. The UK has "groups" where each group has all age ranges covered. So make a group where, up front, the expectation is to prepare cubs and parents to be camping with the troop. Parents need to learn how to camp, how to have fun singing silly songs at camp fires, how to cook in the outdoors. Yes, the scouts need to learn this as well but that's obvious. Those 3 years are to teach the parents what scouting is about while they have fun with their kids. The pinewood derby is not important. The pins are not important. The badges and patches are not important. Learning how to have fun with your kids in the outdoors is important. That would be much easier on the parents than putting on a weekly program for kids that aren't mature, can't sit still and really need to burn a lot of energy. Final comment is that cubscouts is where cubs camp with their parents. Scouts is where they don't. Sure, slight modification would be a major change. I'm not sure what would happen with single parents and siblings and all that. Those are the details where the devil lies. My kids have their own now, so I'm probably the wrong person to ask anyway.

Thank you for the well wishes. Truly. Though I'm still barefooted on the floor attempting to navigate the final stanzas of this treacherous waltz with Kaa (through shards of my life and the lives of others), I'll take any encouragement offered. So, 1908 days after the Chapter 11 filing and 1755 days after submitting my Proof of Claim, I received my Allowed Abuse Claim letter. Who's counting, right? Living through many forms of abuse starting at the age of 3, spent many years drowning in self-medicating techniques through diverse (and sometimes creative) maladaptive behaviors. Along the path I've had my share of so-called, 'out of body experiences.' I have officially added reading that letter to the list. Whatever that means to you and however you envision it, that was surreal. I meandered around for hours then days, experiencing more manic, sleepless nights thinking, writing and, again, trying to avoid feeling it all yet again. The non-monetary narrative section placed me, appropriately, in the Tier One, penetration, category. Is that a "YAY!" moment? I suppose one celebrates such a thing, as twisted and morbid as that it surely is. The letter, signed by Randi Roth, the Claims Administrator, said in pertinent part: "Allowable" Claim. The Trust assesses seven basic eligibility criteria to determine whether your claim is "allowable." They include: (1) your submission was timely; (2) there was no previous resolution of your claim in litigation or another process; (3) you stated the acts of abuse that were suffered; (4) you established your connection to Scouting and showed that BSA, a local council, or certain Chartered Organizations may have been legally responsible for your abuse; (5) you sufficiently identified your abuser(s) and your abuser's connection to Scouting; (6) you provided the approximate date of your abuse (or your age at the time of abuse): and (7) you provided the location of the abuse. Once the Trust determined that your claim was "allowable," the Trust turned to calculating the "Proposed Allowed Claim Amount.. There are many aggravating factors listed in the TDP. In your case, ten of them applied: extended duration of the abuse; extended frequency of the abuse; you were exploited for child pornography; multiple abusers involved in sexual misconduct; adverse impacts to your mental health; adverse impacts to your physical health; adverse impacts to your interpersonal relationships; adverse impacts to your vocational capacity; adverse impacts to your academic capacity; and impacts resulting in your legal difficulties." Wee. I have been validated. More balloons, streamers, cupcakes, pink punch and party favors? The single Mitigating Factor applied was the dreaded Statute of Limitations, though they used the most favorable option since I was abused in three states. Still, per a very helpful and knowledgeable Claim Administrations Advisor, it's doubtful an attorney actual read and researched the substance of my argument for tolling of the appropriately abbreviated, SoL based on fraudulent concealment. That means I stay in the game and prepare my Request for Reconsideration of the tolling argument. For me, it's worth another at bat on this key factor in the final award determination. Thus concludes this grunt's update from the war zone. I have not yet found a DMZ. Please hold hope and carry on all of you survivor claimants, my friends and fellows, still out here with me. Per usual, forgive my speed typos.

My visit to Council went well. I kind of cornered the program director while waiting to talk to the SE. What he told me made me feel better. He understand the situation far clearer than I thought he did. I told I was concerned because I hadn't had a response to my email from Saturday morning. He apologized and said they should have contacted me. They are waiting for instructions from higher up the chain - outside of Council. The Camping Program Exec told me that her impression was that there is a group of kids who get some sort of pleasure from messing around with 11 y/os who were minding their business. This was completely unprompted. In other news, looks like I'm going to be teaching, or helping teach, IOLS at summer camp. Looking forward to that!

I'd be more inclined to give the 11 yo a second chance after appropriate counseling. An adult that can't control his anger in front of the Scouts needs to be gone.

This theme has appeared often over my time here on the forum, and it almost alway comes back to reality of lives and responsibilities outside of the program. Early in my long tenure, now fiftyish, I was visiting my parents and mentioned my frustrations to my father, the man that in my youngest years worked three jobs, one full time with a long drive to and from. Anyway, he looked at me and laughed. He said something to the effect of, "nothing new". Then he asked if I thought that all my scout brothers' parents were involved as he was. He was on the committee in a number of jobs, as actually was my mother for the time. She had been a denmother for my brother. He told me a couple of stories that matched mine like a Polaroid almost. Then he told me that if it was important to someone, they somehow would work at it and often find the time. But also he told me that life could wear you down, and that Scouting involvement also could, and likely would.

That's simply untrue. In Hegseth's own words:

The main issue was that this was another classroom badge, do it in at Merit Badge U in a few hours. Overall it was an empty suit. While nothing egregious against basic goals, it was not challenging and was a check the box. Nothing to accomplish, no measurable items, just feel good writing. It was smoke and mirrors to say "Hey, look how progressive we are". Remember the requirements: 1. Before beginning work on other requirements for this merit badge, research the following terms and explain to your counselor how you feel they relate to the Scout Oath and Scout Law: identities, diversity, equality, equity, inclusion, discrimination, ethical leadership, and upstander. Lot of buzz words here, no real meat or challenge, no actual answers, and if challenged one might be cast as racist or worse (not sure there is worse) 2. Document and discuss with your counselor what leadership means to you. Share what it means to make ethical decisions. (a) Research and share with your counselor an individual you feel has demonstrated positive leadership while having to make an ethical decision. (It could be someone in history, a family member, a teacher, a coach, a counselor, a clergy member, a Scoutmaster, etc.) (b) Explain what decision and/or options that leader had, why you believe they chose their final course of action, and the outcome of that action More here, but lot of feel and again, no real challenge here, it is basic writing and rote answers 3. Consider ethical decision-making. (a) Think about a time you faced an ethical decision. Discuss the situation, what you did, and how it made you feel. Share if you would do anything differently in the future and if so, what that would be. (b) List three examples of ethical decisions you might have to make in the future at school, at home, in the workplace, or in your community, and what you would do. Share how your actions represent alignment with the Scout Oath and Scout Law. (c) Explain to your counselor how you plan to use what you have learned to assist you when that time comes, and what action(s) you can take to serve as an upstander and help other people at all times. Again, lots of touchy feely - feel good stuff , but as with all the requirements, no real challenge here, it is basic writing and rote answers. I am sure the ChatGPT answers were great 4. Repeat the Scout Oath and Scout Law for your counselor. Choose TWO of the following scenarios and discuss what you could do as a Scout to demonstrate leadership and your understanding of what it means to help others who may seem different from you: (a) Scenario 1: While at camp, a youth accidentally spills food on another camper. The camper who gets spilled on gets angry and says something that is offensive to people with disabilities; their friends laugh. What could/should you do? (b) Scenario 2: Your friend confides in you that some students in school are making insulting comments about one of their identities, and that those same students created a fake social media account to impersonate your friend online and post messages. What could/should you do? (c) Scenario 3: A new student in your class was born in another country (or has a parent who was born in another country). Your friends make rude comments to the student about their speech or clothes and tell the student to "go back home where you came from." What could/should you do? This is a basic HR opinion test recycled or really bad training video out take, not overtly terrible, but if this is our core mission, these items could be included in other existing merit badges 5. Document and discuss: (a) Ideas on what you personally can do to create a welcoming environment in your Scouting unit. (b) An experience you had in which you went out of your way to include another Scout(s) and what you did to make them feel included and welcomed. (c) Things you can do to help ensure all Scouts in your unit are given an opportunity to be heard and included in decision-making and planning. Not a terrible requirement, but again, could be included in other existing merit badges 6. With your parent or guardian's approval, connect with another Scout or youth your own age who has an identity that's different from yours. (This means a trait, belief, or characteristic different from you.) (a) Share with each other what makes the different aspects of your identity meaningful/special to you (b) Share with each other ONE of the following options: (1) Option 1—A time you felt excluded from a group: What was the situation? How did it make you feel? What did you do? Did anyone stand up for you? What did you learn? Would you do anything differently today? (2) Option 2—This imaginary situation: You're attending a new school and don't know anyone there yet. You notice they dress very differently than you do. At lunchtime, you decide you'll try to sit with a group to get to know other students. People at two tables tell you there is someone sitting at the currently empty seat at their table, so you end up eating by yourself. Discuss: How would that make you feel? What could the students have done? If that happened at your school, what would you do? (c) Discuss with your counselor what you learned from the discussion with the other Scout or youth. The weakest requirement, as if used in the broad definition "who has an identity that's different from yours", basically that is anyone that is not in fact you. We each have a unique identity. The MB writers could not bring themselves to actually challenge Scouts to find someone of different gender, race, or nationality. 7. Identify and interview an individual in your community, school, and/or Scouting who has had a significant positive impact in promoting diversity, equity, and inclusion. If you feel your community, school, or local Scouting group does not have such an individual, then research a historical figure who meets these criteria, and discuss that person with your counselor. (a) Discover what inspired the individual, learn about the challenges they faced, and share what you feel attributed to their success (b) Discuss with your counselor what you learned and how you can apply it in your life. Self promotion and shameless support of the DEI cycle, let's applaud the program we are stoking 8. With the help of your parent or guardian, study an event that had a positive outcome on how society viewed a group of people and made them feel more welcome. Describe to your counselor the event and what you learned. Not a terrible requirement, but again, could be included in other existing merit badges 9. Document and discuss with your counselor three or more areas in your life outside of Scouting where you feel you can actively provide stronger leadership in: (a) Making others feel included. (b) Practicing active listening. (c) Creating an environment where others feel comfortable to share their ideas and perspectives. (d) Helping others feel valued for their input and suggestions. (e) Standing up for others. A feel good requirement, no actual measurements, just self promotion and support of the DEI cycle 10. Discuss with your counselor how stereotyping people can be harmful, and how stereotypes can lead to prejudice and discrimination. Share ideas you have for challenging assumptions and celebrating individuality. A feel good requirement, no actual measurements or documented achievements, just self promotion and support of the DEI cycle 11. Scouting strives to develop young people to be future leaders in their workplaces, schools, and community environments. As you look at your current involvement in school, your family, Scouting, your job, and/or community, think about how you can have a positive impact in diversity, equity, and inclusion. (a) Describe your ideas on how you can and will support others with different identities to feel included and heard at your school, workplace, and/or social settings in your community. (b) Explain how including diverse thoughts and opinions from others with different identities can: Make your interactions more positive. Help everyone benefit by considering different opinions. (c) Give three examples of how limiting diverse input can be harmful. d) Give three examples of how considering diverse opinions can lead to innovation and success. As with Req 7, basic self promotion and shameless support of the DEI cycle, let's applaud the program we are stoking

Because of the military support, I was able to be a cub scout when I loved in Portugal. It was the same for my son when we lived in Germany. I think that having a connection with the military is of great value for Scouting and for the military. My son is an Eagle Scout and has been selected for a 4-year NROTC Scholarship next year when he starts college. Although I left scouting as a Boy Scout because of the troop when I moved to Mississippi - the troop was less about camping and more about uniform inspections and being in Ranks. I was not looking for a military experience (although I retired form the Navy after 30 years in 2021). So, I can understand why Scouting America made the decisions it did - Cit Society has been sacrificed for bigger, more important priorities to the program. But as the Cit Society MB counselor in my troop, I am concerned that there will be a cost. After two years teaching the Merit Badge, I learned from the scouts as we talk about the requirements. The scouts never had issue with them, only the parents. The scouts did not understand what the issue was - which really makes confident in the future generations. I disagree the argument that there is no value since elements have always been there. Can we use the same argument to get rid of cooking since it is in every advancement requirement to First Class and in Camping MB? Same with First Aid? Since that argument does not work, what is the actual pushback on the Merit Badge?

Wow, go out of town for a couple days and wow a lot was here to chew on. The all merit badge issue is in my opinion a matter of money. The scouts that I have personally seen get them all basically bought their way through it by having the cash to go-go-go. I don't believe a scout should have to master a skill to get a merit badge; however, at the same time I don't believe some of these scouts have retained any knowledge of the harder merit badges which defeats a huge part of the purpose of the merit badge process. The merit badge mills (MBU, etc ... )are less of a concern for me. They're such a mixed bag. Some scouts are coming in with pre-requisites and meeting the base standard, some are exceeding the standard, some are just being tossed a merit badge (which plainly sucks and hurts the scouts and program). I think the difficulty here is that there is a base standard, a minimum; we often get lost in the haze of debate over a scout who over achieves and people believing that should re-baseline the merit badge requirements. Merit badges are not on a bell curve, you do the standard you get the badge. I sat in at a MBU last year and I had a handful of parents and scouts lose their mind on me because they came in with literal reams of pre-work and while great, demonstrating above average achievement, it was a lot of work that was not required. I had to tell a scout and his parents that the standard was X and they did X+10. I had to tell them that the other scouts who just did exactly the requirement for the pre-requisites would get the exact same merit badge. They lost their minds, to them because little billy did more, so should everyone else. The requirements to become a MBC are horrible in every way. The standards are arbitrary and subjective. There are very few if any audits of skill going on. There are fiefdoms for certain merit badges. My personal hate is being told I was not qualified to be an MBC for a merit badge and I came back with "I have over 40 years experience and certified training in this, wtf do you mean I am not qualified to be an MBC for this?". When national rolled out the Citizenship in Society MB and all the hoops you had to jump through to be an MBC for that, where the heck are those hoops for any other MB? How can people get signed off to be an MBC without doing the 15min free online training? Too wrap this up I just had to talk a troop leader off the ledge who was going to lose his $%^& on our councils "MB Dean" when the MB Dean told the troop leader that he wasn't qualified to MBC Citizenship in the Nation; the troop leader is teacher who literally teaches a course called "Citizenship in America" at a local high school. The whole process is broken.

This isn't true at all. My buddy had to attend every game and practice his daughter played in league volleyball (which cost him $3200 every "Series"/"quarter"/"league period" aka she played 3 a year outside varsity volleyball for all 4 years of high school). There may be some leagues that you can dump and run; however, that is becoming the old standard much like it was the old standard in scouting. As the lawsuit sharks circle dump-and-run is going away even in league sports. I remember him calling me going "I am driving a day and a half to St. Louis right now because if I am not butt in bleachers they will bench my daughter which will threaten her varsity slot when she returns to school.". Dumping and running might have been true in the interarm, but it is going away. It's not declining due to value perception. It's declining due to lack of delivery. On paper the programs provided by Scouting America are among the top youth programs in the world; yes, the world. The problem is that execution of this program is highly variable (even from one side of the town to another), there is no quality control, and councils are too weak to do anything about it because they are too busy trying to survive instead of running the program. Scouting America just lost somewhere between 300k and 500k of it's youth membership in the past 90 days; that membership churn is not a value perception, we sold those families on the value, they where here, they saw the value, they left because we didn't deliver.

There is one thing that you can do... Do not participate in the masquerade. You are only responsible for what you do, so maintain your integrity, and do not sign off anything you know you shouldn't. I have made many a Scout a little frustrated and many a parent perhaps a little angry when I refused to sign off something that I did not personally see or test. Scout: "I tied a diagonal lashing on the camping trip last weekend!" Me: "Excellent, let me see it you do it again." <Scout cannot tie a diagonal lashing.> Me: "OK, let's review how to do this lashing." <demonstrates> <Scout ties diagonal lashing.> "Ok, will you sign me off on that?" Me: "Yes, I will sign you off next week when you show it to me again. Practice and read your Scout Handbook if you need any more pointers." <Next week, Scout cannot tie diagonal lashing.> <Wash, rinse, repeat.> At some point, I get push back from parents or even other leaders. Then, I pull out the Scout Handbook and reference the four steps of advancement. (which every Scout must know, as a requirement for the Scout badge.) 1. You learn. ..."you learn and practice skills that are required for advancement..." 2. You are tested. "Once you feel that you have mastered a skill, a leader tests you and passes you on the requirement." I explain that, in my world of Scouting, if a Scout cannot tie a diagonal lashing from one week to the next, then he has not mastered that skill. There are other leaders who do sign off something immediately, or upon the Scout saying he has done it, without seeing a demonstration of mastery. I am only responsible for what I do.

IMHO, Scouting America should ask well-spoken Robert Gates, former president of the Boy Scouts of America and Secretary of Defense for Presidents Bush and Obama to respond.

I don't get the indian lore stuff at all; with all of the headaches, people looking for a fight, politically correct paths to navigate; the whole indian lore thing is a liability with no redeeming quality.

The people who never read the emails are #1. #2 is the people that transfer in from "bad units" or "failed units" and then won't shut up about how we should try what their old unit did.

My scouts are so slow about updating their rank patches that maybe they would be better served by just handing down their shirts to the kid who just made their last rank!

That's a disturbing comment. While not pleasant to think about, it is certainly possible that some of the commentators on this forum over the years probably were involved in some of these cases. It's perhaps good to remember that a tactic of the guilty is to deflect blame elsewhere and weigh comments in that light.

I’m sorry, I need to vent for a minute. This has been rough learning an entire year of nothing happening with the Slater cases, of which I am one. I thought financial help with this case could help me through my elderly years, because it’s obvious to me I will never let this go. I have my good days and bad days, unfortunately, being part of this case removed most of those ‘good days’. It took me nearly a year to get everything together, fill out my questionnaire, and get it in. I would have to work weekends on it because of how badly it affected my work day and my daily life. After adding the case to my life a few days were hitting me particularly bad. I would sit in my back yard holding a hose, sitting in a chair watering the same spot of grass for hours at a time and crying. One day I was out there all day and the neighbors started getting worried. I thought this part of my sadness was done with. I learned that all of those times in life my throat closing up was anxiety. In the last few years, hard anxiety attacks were now taking me to the hospital a number of times to make sure I wasn’t about to check out. The night the abuse started I walked home with a tinnitus ringing loud in my left ear. This loud ringing stayed with me for two decades. By the end of my 20s, the ringing had subsided . But within months of deciding to enter this case the ear ringing came back strong. Hearing this ringing again really isn’t worth any of this. But I’m not financially stable, I need help. I attribute these poor financial abilities to the abuse directly. Prior to the abuse I was an excellent student, straight A’s, an eagerness to learn, happy, sports, friends, but after the abuse that was gone. The abuse destroyed who I was and what I was to become. At the beginning of last year, my questionnaire and everything was turned into Slater (a few months before the pause). After a few months of finishing the questionnaire I inquired about updates and was told there was none. Every few months I asked about updates and again there were none. Knowing there was a pause, they said nothing. I somewhat understand that part. But have they even found a mediator?? Have they even started vetting a single one of these 14000 cases????? I didn’t think about how long this case was going to be and now there’s going to be another stranger I have to spill my guts to. I don’t really have a question I think I just want to keep thanking all of you with everything I am. You’re the only ones that have truly helped my mind and my heart during this case. I honestly don’t think any of us can truly let anything go. I think people are just better at ignoring things? I’ve met a lot of abuse survivors and a lot of them could hide things so well. I can’t seem to do that. I’m so broken I don’t know what to do. I want a vacation from myself but that doesn’t exist. I tried medication and it made things worse. I tried talking to doctors, it made it worse. I had one doctor laugh at me and say you’re a big boy, you’ll be fine, slapped me on the back and prescribed me meds?? I mainly spent Saturday afternoons working on my case, so then I could be emotional appropriate for work on Monday morning. This is off topic but one of the days I was sitting there on the back porch working on my case, I was staring off into the backyard. I saw two hummingbirds flying straight at each other and the second they got super close to one another they did this tight spiral together straight up into the sky I thought I was seeing things and then it happened again that day. I don’t know if that’s some kind of mating ritual or what that is but I thought that was really neat. Goodnight everyone, bless you all.

Parents are the most challenging part of Scoutmastering. National should create a course to prepare for how to respond to them. It takes practice. We had a few families leave because we didn't budge on our program philosophy. One mother took her new tenderfoot son out because I wouldn't delegate him as the Patrol Leader. But we lost several scouts because of our approach to Eagle. And, the parents of the ones who stayed despite their parents' wishes would never speak to me again, even when I ran into them at the grocery store. Barry

A Scout is Trustworthy. And scouting is not easy. Teach them how to responsibly use tools. And yes they will fail but try again and again... learn by doing. Share the troop policy with parents. For example, how to fully charge phones before activity and how to find a missing scout or a phone via a phone. Back in the day, we scouts had nighttime competitions as to who could tune in the furthest AM station. We would be up all Friday night, however we soon learned the downside - dragging or missing fun Saturday activities. Wiser by Sat night, we slept and were ready for Sunday activities. Scouting is a learning experience. It is far easier to simply... but it is far better to use the Scout methods. Another $0.02.

There are references to patrol activities in modern documentation but it is very limited. The focus on leadership over being able to do things for oneself is what is really killing the patrol method. The original purpose state of which BSA is chartered by congress provides no mention of "leadership" training. The program is so overfocused on leadership training, positions of responsibility, and the eagle project that any notion of self-reliance is gone; scoutcraft is the next thing "leadership" will kill. The purpose statement of the BSA from the national charter: The purposes of the corporation are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916.

Depends on the SM and availability of trained adult leaders. Our senior patrol still plans and execute 1 or 2 outdoor patrol activities a year. Back in my day, patrols hiked locally without adults provided their SM approved. I would say even then, councils did not recognize patrols. Council events and camps required troop registration even the patrol competition Klondike Derby required troop registration. IMHO, skilled, experienced patrols should be allowed to trek Philmont without adults. As an alternative to an Eagle service project, I favor allowing Eagle Scout candidates to plan and lead a patrol trek without adults in attendance or a "project handbook". We once trained scouts to reach a level (First Class) of outdoor competency such that they could "scout run" themselves without adults present. My $0.02,

Why? If your Council is anything like mine, these Council weekend camporees and events are adult planned and adult lead, not Scout planned or Scout lead. Taking a smaller, younger unit to one a year to spark them to suck up some knowledge might be good, but otherwise, I'd rather have them off learning by doing. Making mistakes is a part of learning in my book. It is long and complicated history to get all into Scout camps and long-term resident camp structures, but for me one has to first look at the program itself and how it morphed over time. The earliest days of Scouting were small and fairly widely distributed on units that were formed prior to 1910 and in that first decade 1910-1919. Mostly rural, and camping meant hiking across town to a patch of woods rather than trekking off to some 500 acre camp. BSA growth from 1920 to post-WWII was predominantly in urban areas, and that began the rush for councils to acquire property for these units to have spaces of their own to build out and structure for solely Scouting purposes. Not all of these properties were huge tracts, some were just several acres. Residence camp ("summer camp") for many was multiple weeks, and didn't involve brining in adults to lead- the Scouts/units themselves generally lead the program. Our legacy council was split to three districts, and camp, up until the early 50's, was two weeks per district. The SE was the camp director and in charge of logistics (how to get Scouts and food to camp), and there was one other adult that was "staff"- that was the program director and worked with the with units to carry out their planning of daily activities. The camp property the council had in those years had no dining hall, no showerhouse, etc. There were only three structures on the property when it was sold in the early 1950s and they acquired a new, larger property. Beginning in the 1970s, as membership had peaked and began to drop in many areas, "excess" properties began to be sold off or sometimes transferred to state/municipal entities. For New England as a whole, from about the mid 1990s to present, about two dozen properties have been sold or transferred (many in the later category will still allow some limited weekend usage by Scouting units). Some of those were several-hundred acre type properties, some were hold-over small properties (often with little to no developed structures or water/electricity supply) from decades past. From the mid 1970s to the mid 1990s, several dozen properties were dispatched, often as part of paying down debts to stave off inevitable council mergers. Our youth several years ago tried to get SPLs from other district units together to plan a fall camporee, as our troop stopped going for a few years because it was all adult lead. The District Chair and the District Activities Coordinator were all onboard, until suddenly after a few meetings they weren't. The weekend went off fully adult planned and lead. When we inquired why this had changed, the response was that the "at large" District members (these are adults that are not registered to units, and not in a District Key 3 position, but are still registered to BSA) felt that they were being "left with nothing to do". Our unit had nothing to do with Council/District, aside from Eagle Boards, for the next four years. We couldn't understand how adults that were supposedly sticking around in a front of "supporting Scouting" took over youth running an event, and that seemed appropriate to everyone in a position of authority. I certainly don't have all the answers, and I may be completely wrong on this (even just for simple basic "health and safety" concerns we have to face today), but I am fine with the organization being at the size of youth membership that it is today, if only we could go back to that simpler time when a Council was only a small cluster of towns and had one employee, and camping and program in general wasn't big production. If we could process paperwork with nothing more than typewriters and the USPS back then, technology today should certainly make it feasible to scale appropriately without over-the-top bloat.

Perhaps I am incorrect, I thought the participation in the ceremony was as part of the team conducting it. Saluting and the PoA is as an attendant or spectator. Easy enough to do at a troop meeting instead of having the flags already set up on poles, have scouts present them by walking them to their position in a ceremonial procession. Perhaps this should be the standard operating procedure. Where else will they practice this prior to the troop being asked to perform this by another organization? On campouts, it is easy enough to rig a flagpole and do the raising/lowering as part of the standard program. In general most rank requirements should be able to be accomplished via participation in the standard program. If the program does not have it, then that is an area of growth for the program. Also if it is part of the standard program, the "one and done" complaints are moot.

If his Board of Review has been completed and approved by National, he IS an Eagle Scout. Whether he can remain a member of your Troop is another question. Sorry this has happened.

About three weeks before camps open. Perfect timing.