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As a Merit Badge Counselor (Bugling, if you want to know), I have maybe three objectives. Certify the fulfilling of the requirements, help the Scout MEET those requirements and have some "Scouty" conversation with the Scout about their life and adventures.... So I have been both surprised and gratified in how diverse and advanced some of these Scouts are. For instance, there is a Russian Philosopher named Ivan Goudinov (you can look him up). How is it these young kids know of his writings? Like, when the Scout, in my instance, plays one of the calls and then asks "Mister SSScout, is that Goudinov? " Indeed.....

The core issue is trying to do activities with kids ranging in age, size, and maturity from 5 year old kindergartners to 10 or 11 year old fourth and fifth graders. Scouting really forces all these ages together at pack meetings and other events and really doesn't work too hard at differentiating them as much as you would typically see in other environments like school, sports, etc. A too broad age range is also sometimes an issue at troop levels. Scouting asks volunteer adults to supervise situations that people who supervise children professionally typically try to avoid. Lions were not a helpful addition to this mix but National did it anyway for membership and marketing reasons. The lawsuit shouldn't be a surprise and I'm sure there have been plenty others.

SCOTUS just ruled on this... Mirabella v Bonta https://www.aalrr.com/newsroom-alerts-4207 That is now prohibited in government, as it violates parents' rights.

When my son was 8, he broke his arm in a playground fall that occurred while he was participating in a day camp run by a well-known community organization. He fell just 2 feet but landed on his arm awkwardly. Our health insurance company wanted every detail about the situation so they could prove that << well-known community organization >> was liable and avoid playing the claim. It got to the point where we considered paying the $4,000 ER bill out of pocket because we didn't want to bring harm to the organization (who also provides us with reliable after-school childcare during the school year). They eventually dropped their attempt, but our deductible is pretty high, and we wound up covering the entire bill anyway. Given the extent of our troubles for a standard playground fall, I can't imagine the insurance nightmare this situation will be with a 12-year-old aggressor, a leader out vaping, and a wounded national organization that's just a walking claim-paying machine.

""Is deestant cousin...""

You should introduce them to Boris Badinov and Natasha.

I really wonder why anyone would still go to the Scout Shop and buy the printed versions when they are available to download at no cost.

Okay. I just saw the following. New requirements online and QR codes to access/ Scout shops to get new MB pamphlet inventory. I always think about the carrying cost. Ouch. https://www.scouting.org/program-updates/important-update-merit-badge-requirements-moving-online/

No. Our phone policy has always been to use it in accordance with the Scout Oath and Scout Law. Same with earbuds, headphones, computers, handheld video games, radios, televisions, air defense systems, etc, etc, etc. A Scout's handheld computer is an awesome tool, and we should not restrict their using it to acquire or track information as long as it is appropriate to the occasion (like plant identification, or for a merit badge like Photography/Astronomy/Bird Study/ etc.) If I went to a camp and they tried to limit my use of a phone as an adult, I'd politely tell them to pound sand. But I hold myself to the same standards... must be done in accordance with the Scout Oath and Law. For example, during a class, meal, or campfire, I have my phone set to vibrate. If a parent tries to contact me, I excuse myself from the campfire and take/return the call. Parents are instructed to contact adult leaders only in emergencies, btw. We police ourselves, thank you. We do tell parents that these mega-expensive items are best left at home, and that the Scout bears responsibility for the security of the device while on the trip. If we have to take the device because as Scout is not using it in accordance with Scout Oath and Law, we safeguard and return it to the parent at the end of the trip. When in doubt, ask... How else are they going to learn?

But Hawaii was different; it exposed that the NCAP process isn't as good as they thought. This doesn't touch national directly so would they get involved? I see this as compartmentalized to the council level at the highest, probably going to be pushed down to the unit level. Also looks like the details are developing. It appears that the leader being sued is being sued because the parents viewed him stepping out as a catalyst for control of the scouts to leave even though they admit there were at least 2 other adult leaders in the room at the time. The parents are also admitting that many other adults were in the room but somehow no one saw what happened actually take place. I know someone saw somewhere that the council was the CO but I can't find that; I did see in these articles that the pack meeting was taking place at the council headquarters. I think either way the council is going to be exposed to risk because the altercation took place on their property and wasn't reported in a timely manner. https://www.wtol.com/article/news/local/family-speaks-out-lawsuit-against-scouting-america-cub-scouts-leader-alleged-attack-on-son/512-9aff2dfd-6234-4126-a5c0-20c91ef3dd1c https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/boy-5-left-hospitalized-after-brutal-beating-at-boy-scouts-meeting-lawsuit-says/ar-AA1XR6Lm?apiversion=v2&domshim=1&noservercache=1&noservertelemetry=1&batchservertelemetry=1&renderwebcomponents=1&wcseo=1 This is also going to cause Erie Shores to take a big hit on their Quality Council incident reporting scoring.

That's the more likely scenario. Look what happened with the Hawai'i scout shooting incident. There is no way National wants to risk any kind of public court case where all these highly touted safety policies are shown to be mostly words that are not backed by functional processes.

No it will all be huss huss we must keep the good name of Scouting pay the settlement ban the leadership. All under a non disclosure agreement like all B S settlements. Only public record if criminal charges

99%

Our school district was celebrating a couple of years ago that in a student high school survey, only 50% of the respondents identified as heterosexual. Now the same people are professing surprise that the number of students in the district is collapsing and claim to have no idea why.

That's not how garrisons work. Just not. I guess another non-military non-veteran thought on something this week. The West Point camporee presents a unique situation where cadre and cadets put so much into it because so many have a connection to scouting back home and get to invite their home troop. Not even GSUSA can replicate that network and process. No other scouting organization will have that relationship, it took half a century and literally millions of past members of BSA to create that network and connection to the academy. If Scouting America gets kicked out of the West Point camporee it means the camporee is dead. I highly doubt any other scouting organization will have a relationship with the military like Scouting America. Congress no longer issues charters for some reason; I've seen how this affects newer veterans groups, too late to the table and unable to fill the same space as the older groups like AL or VFW; those groups become niche organizations that are mostly filled by politically hungry people unwilling to put their time in to get district or state level leadership positions in the older groups. Trail Life in itself has some other issues that will keep it on the outside, Right now the political arm of the military is VERY protestant and pushing a very protestant position towards things; however, most of the military historically doesn't practice religion outside of boot camp (lots of "no-religion" people suddenly become "Non-denominational Christian" in boot camp when they realize the church goers go to mass on Sunday while the non-church goers scrub floors and garbage cans). Then toss in that the overwhelming largest religious group in the military is Catholic and you have a big problem (The Catholic church endorses Scouting America as it's partner group through NCCS, and Trail Life is anti-Magisterium).

The lawyer and family are fundamentally reading the division by age stuff wrong. Cub scouts meet roughly weekly 2-3 times a month in dens (which can be but might not always be divided by age due to leader or program limitations); once a month cub scouts meet as a pack where all dens participate together. This will get ripped apart by any competent defense/litigation attorney. The lawyer and family are also misunderstanding the reporting requirements. The council is not at fault for the unit not following reporting rules. The fault is going to fall on the registered adult leaders (most likely the key 3 will get hit by the bus), and then the charter organization. This is simply logic, how can council be in the wrong if they were not notified because the unit was violating the reporting procedures? This right here is why our YPT/Safeguarding is online only; the councils lawyer will point out the youth protection training part that mandates reporting and will show negligence by the leader(s) and not council. Again the council cannot be at fault for the leaders not following the guide to safe scouting and allowing a prohibited event. The councils lawyer will again reference the mandatory youth protection training segments. Erie Shores and national are going to spend a bunch of money redirecting everything to the charter organization, unit leaders, and parents (involved that night). The entire organization is going to get a lesson in how everything is siloed and compartmentalized post settlement. The only risk to Erie Shores council that I can see is if the plaintiffs attorney can show that the council has a chartered obligation to ensure all leaders are trained and that the leaders present were not trained past 90 days so the council is at fault for some sort of oversight in ensuring trained leaders. If that happens it might actually help the rest of the program and force all councils to protect themselves by washing out all the F grade leaders who can't be bothered to do free online training.

Saw a clip on local (to the unit) news yesterday. In that report it stated several times that the person who caused the injury was 12 years old. If that is actually the case then the part of the original article stating that the older kids should have been separated from the younger kids makes a little more sense, particularly if this was a case of a pack and troop meeting together for some reason, or of an older sibling being present and joining the banned activity.

From the Youth Application: "Parent Agreement. I have read the Scout Oath and Scout Law, and I want my child to join Scouting. I will assist them in abiding by the policies of Scouting America and the chartered organization. I will: • Serve as an adult partner while my child is a Lion or Tiger." The parent has some supervisory responsibility in this, at least for their own child. ----------------------- Also there: "Mandatory Reporting All persons involved in Scouting must immediately report to local authorities any good-faith suspicion or belief that any child is or has been physically or sexually abused; physically or emotionally neglected; exposed to any form of violence or threat; or exposed to any form of sexual exploitation including the possession, manufacture, or distribution of child pornography, online solicitation, enticement, or showing of obscene material. No person may abdicate this reporting responsibility to any other person." This verbatim message is also purveyed through SYT and the Guide to Safe Scouting. All registered adults present are mandatory reporters... this is one area I think paid professionals, COR's and volunteers mutually fail at... discussing what this means and what their responsibilities are. The basic mentality I see is that many people think SYT applies only to sexual assault. ------------------------------------- From the Annual Health and Medical Record (which parents must sign): NOTE: Due to the nature of programs and activities, the Boy Scouts of America and local councils cannot continually monitor compliance of program participants or any limitations imposed upon them by parents or medical providers. ----------------- And there are many questions here... -- What is an "indoor snowball fight"? See G2SS Prohibited Activities #15. Activities where participants shoot or throw objects at each other, such as rock-throwing, paintball, laser or archery tag, sock fights, or dodgeball https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss07/#b -- Was this "violence" or was is a rough-and-tumble game where a large kid fell on a small one and hurt him? This may have been perceived initially as an injury due to the activity, rather than "violence." -- Were the Scout leaders actually negligent? I can see something like this getting out of control and an injury happening really fast. They will have to explain the "indoor snowball fight" vs Prohibited Activities list, though... that is where a claim of negligence would have grounds -- OK, the "Scoutmaster" (probably means Cubmaster or Den Leader, but OK) was outside... but were there two other registered adults present? If yes, kind of a moot argument there. (That he was rumored vaping is moot... he/she could have been in the bathroom for all we know.) "All Scouting functions, meetings, and activities should be conducted on a smoke-free basis, with smoking areas located away from all participants." Was he vaping in an area away from participants?? If so, and any two other registered leaders were present, this argument falls away, too... --------------- I relayed in a post sometime back... our SE told volunteers (at a type of fireside chat) that National's patience with volunteers violating policies was wearing thin, and there are elements within the organization who advocate not defending volunteers who do, or offering settlements based on their non-compliance with policies. This one will be interesting. Like @skeptic says, "Follow the rules people" And like @Eagle1993 advises "Just get excess liability insurance and follow BSA policy and you will be fine." , which would be great legal advice, too, if he were lawyer ------------------- From the G2SS (key overall points underlined) GENERAL INFORMATION When it comes to the safety guide, here are some important points for you to remember: Know the Guide—All participants in official Scouting activities should become familiar with the document and applicable Scouting America program literature or manuals. The guide is a resource as well as a summary of the materials provided by Scouting America. Know the Law—Be aware that state or local government regulations supersede Scouting America practices, policies, and guidelines. Know the Risks—The Guide to Safe Scouting does not cover every possible activity, but it provides guidance on how to evaluate risks and proceed safely if explicit requirements do not exist. Check out the Activity Planning and Risk Assessment section. Know the Restrictions—The document includes a list of restricted or prohibited activities. Know the Limits—The document contains age-appropriate guidelines for activities. Find out which and when certain activities are appropriate for particular age groups. Know the Program—The guide points to other Scouting America program documents such as Safe Swim Defense, the National Shooting Sports Manual, and additional program materials.

When I first took over in January of 2025 I saw myself staying as Scoutmaster for at least a year or two after my youngest aged out. He turned 18 this week, and I'm stepping down. I'll be taking on the role of Eagle coach instead. The biggest challenge was time, made worse by the lack of parent involvement in the actual running of the Troop. Of those who were willing to volunteer time, I'd say about 80% of them only wanted to be in an administrative type position - committee member, advancement chair, service chair, etc. Of those who were ASM's, one never came camping even on the trip they were in charge of organizing, and one needed to be hand-held through everything to the point it was faster and easier for me to do it myself. (Crazily, this parent is an Eagle, yet can't cook a meal or put up a tent that isn't their own.) Anywho... it's been great, and awful, and everything in between. God bless those of you who are in this role. I figured I'd share the message I sent to our Troop after the latest political issues, because I think it's a message that's needed no matter what we're facing, but didn't want to clutter the other thread. Although I have just one more week as your Scoutmaster, I wanted to issue a statement of support for ALL our scouts, our friends, and our families. I wholeheartedly believe in the overarching mission of Scouting, which is "to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law." That doesn't change how we are meant to treat others, no matter what is said by outside individuals or administrations. Trustworthy and Loyal means a scout can be relied upon to act with understanding, Kindness and Courtesy in their interactions with others. Scouts should strive to be non-discriminatory and Helpful to everyone around them. In short, the same principles that Baden-Powell espoused when forming this organization still stand today. Do your best to continue to be the amazing young people that you are.

This theme has appeared often over my time here on the forum, and it almost alway comes back to reality of lives and responsibilities outside of the program. Early in my long tenure, now fiftyish, I was visiting my parents and mentioned my frustrations to my father, the man that in my youngest years worked three jobs, one full time with a long drive to and from. Anyway, he looked at me and laughed. He said something to the effect of, "nothing new". Then he asked if I thought that all my scout brothers' parents were involved as he was. He was on the committee in a number of jobs, as actually was my mother for the time. She had been a denmother for my brother. He told me a couple of stories that matched mine like a Polaroid almost. Then he told me that if it was important to someone, they somehow would work at it and often find the time. But also he told me that life could wear you down, and that Scouting involvement also could, and likely would.

By coincidence, there is an article this morning about schools being sued for hiding a student's trans name and not telling the student is behaving in a trans lifestyle. There is no doubt that trans folks and their parents are becoming known as victims of their environment, and they are lashing out at whoever contributed to that environment. The main issue with schools is that they are keeping the students' trans identity secret from their parents. There is no surprise; a teacher on this forum admitted this was going on in a trans discussion several years ago. I understand the compassion for these youth and their struggle with their behavior, but the BSA should not have put unit leaders in the position of making these kinds of choices. Now we're learning that councils are defying national guidelines and continuing the practice. Unit leaders are unknowingly in harm's way. The trans issue is really just one of many issues that unit leaders have to face when scouts ask them to hold secrets from their parents. Our SM was threatened with litigation for holding information about the scout's behavior from the parents. He had been warned by the more experienced leaders. about the practice. But he continued because he felt it built a trust that he could leverage to change a scout's wrong behavior. The idea is noble, but misused. By the way, I found in my SM training classes that most scout leaders agreed with the idea; after all, we are in the business of building character. However, many leaders, including our SM, learned the hard way that the trust of the parents is just as important as the trust of the scout. What many folks, teachers, scout leaders, coaches, and so forth forget is that parents have the ultimate responsibility of raising their kids. They dictate what their kids learn about life for their future. Everyone the parents entrust with responsibility for guiding their kids through life's lessons and skills is just one resource to help them develop their kids into the kinds of adults they want them to be. I used to teach in leadership training to imagine the character of a youth as a puzzle. Each piece of the puzzle is part of the team that parents use to help develop their kids' character. Each puzzle piece is a teacher, band leader, coach, piano teacher, scout leader, and other influences. But, in most cases, one piece isn't more significant than the other. So, while the Scout Master has a great title and a lot of influence in the unit to change a scout's character, the reality is the SM is only one person among a large team that parents use to help develop their kids' growth into adulthood. The parents are the team leaders, and there has to be trust between the team and the parents. This idea goes for a lot of situations that unit leaders find themselves dealing with. Trust me, scouts are very creative in making bad choices. But a trusting relationship with parents actually gives scout leaders more room, not less, to work with the scout. I can't remember how many times I told the parents of an issue, only to be followed by asking them to give us a couple of weeks to work with their scout. If that didn't work, then it was time to get the parents more involved. My teacher son uses the same approach with his students. Sorry for the long post, but a leader's trust between scouts and parents is very important for me because I have observed many leaders finding themselves in a mess, simply because they wanted a one-on-one trust with the scout for leverage to influence the scout to change. Scouting is hard. Open dialogue and trust between the scouts and parents make it a little easier. Have a great weekend. Barry

The transgender scout in my unit staid in. Earned Eagle, went to Philmont and now in College. Parent was a leader so that helped. The main odd thing was that the scout dressed as a 1950s housewife.... It's like they changed genders and decades. They were treated well overall. I checked in frequently. One leader from another unit told her "I don't get this gender thing, but you do you.". The scout loved that response as they know most don't understand but at least they were kind enough to let them live their life. As you said, single tent, only gender neutral bathrooms, buddy group changes. I was asked but didn't wear the pride knot, I think that hurt a bit. It is a bit complicated to manage, but it is manageable.

More than everything, lack of parent volunteers will damage this program. I took a similar step a few months ago .. it is sad seeing the change over the last several years. Went from more than enough parents willing to camp and lead outings to crickets.

Fully agree. I understand my council knows they will merge with another council; however, that council is not in great shape financially and likely needs to close a camp or two. My council is holding off on the merger so they aren't blamed for the camp closure. I'm sure there are many similar stories, so national will have to step in. During the bankruptcy a small/secret meeting was held by a fee national leaders. Their PPT slides were reviewed in court but never added to the docket. They included recommendations for a major reduction in councils among other ideas. It is needed and hopefully coming.

I served Scouting multiple decades without that recognition. Later in life, I was blessed with success in the markets and large retirement pension, and so made a donation to our local council endowment. Was awarded SB that same year. Coincidence?

Some minor good news, sort of. Received email from Trust that they tried to send me a modest wire today, but it was rejected because of who knows what at the bank. Will call them tomorrow. But something is moving.

What is your precise objection/point?