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One of the surest signs of membership decline is the lack of Scouters coming to this forum to debate adult square knot insignia. I swear that used to be every other thread around here pre-COVID. 😛

We have one like this in our troop. Kid just likes doing the stuff he likes to do in scouts and doesn't care about the patches. Doesn't come to regular weekday meetings often, but is usually on the hikes and camp outs. He has the skills, I see him use them regularly, just doesn't feel like going through the motions for the sign offs. He's happy. Parents are happy. Other kids and adults like him and his parents. I have no doubt he lives by the Oath and Law.

They can vote with their feet.

Sometimes I think we are just not getting through... I am an ASM working with a Patrol of younger Scouts. Last night, an older Scout interrupted this Patrol's Meeting to try to take a younger Scout out to work on his Life requirement #6, using EDGE to teach a skill. The younger Scout is the planner for the Patrol's next camping trip, and he was working out plans with his Patrol mates. The younger Scout was obviously frustrated by this demand (from the look on his face) and turned to me for guidance. I dismissed the older Scout and told him this was time for the Patrol Meeting, and that the younger Scout was to stay and finish his planning with his Patrol Mates. This morning, the parent of the older Scout sends a scathing missive to the Scoutmaster, outlining how his son has been trying to complete this requirement for months now, and is not getting any support from the Troop. (This is factually incorrect, and the SM handled the email response to the parent perfectly.) The parent made brief mention of the Patrol Meeting scenario last night, and made a comment in reference to it that makes me believe we are just not getting through... "I understand the importance of patrol meetings, but don’t get why they would take precedence over completing rank requirements." This, followed by threats to leave the Troop if the Troop does not immediately make and implement a plan to help their Scout finish the requirement. Important to note also, this older Scout rarely comes to meetings, and has not been on a Troop outing since Oct 2024. He did not make arrangements with anyone to try to work on the requirement during this meeting... smh https://youtu.be/V2f-MZ2HRHQ?si=ljwnDk_wERNKzhz4

Yep.

So many things get in the way of real continuity. For our unit, early on it was job issues with the chosen individual suddenly being moved and a fortunate replacement stepping up. That resulted is a few decades of solid leadership, but in reality it was up t half a dozen doing the lifting with one at the paper apex. He and his number one ASM received the first two SB awards in our council in the 30's. Sam the SM noted then that they were in reality co-SM's. WWII brought strong step ups to help, and then Sam" son came back and stepped in for a long period. He was forced out due to adults feeling his approach was too outdated. Lots of turmoil and loss of focus, and it almost killed the unit. Finally a steady hand stepped in to level the waves. I was put in the spot against my preference at the time due to personal issues and my job, yet somehow am still there, but now a paper figurehead with others working to keep us afloat. I was forced out due to a stroke and another major issue, and our unit family discovered that issue of poor planning. We now struggle for outdoor options, but we have a few dedicated adults to hold us afloat, though none are outdoor people in the sense of consistent hiking and camping, which had been our focus for most of our history. The history, over a century is a factor though. So we struggle on and I encourage them from the pedestal they put me on and try to find some younger outdoor types, hopefully maybe even past alumni. We also struggle with the Methodist challenge since the lawsuit. Going into year 104 and hopefully can cement the history in place and use it to draw some new true outdoor Scouting adults. Should add that service has Always been a factor for our units, and that is part of its success. Also, still fewer than a hundred Eagles, so we cannot be accused of that often difficult focus.

Probably polishing my "annoyed stone" a bit, but the fact he did not make Eagle is secondary. Did he enjoy his time, and did he learn to live the Spirit?

We've had similar experiences with various sports coaches and then specifically baseball coaches when the more sports oriented son settled into that. Almost all of them were good and many, especially in baseball, were supportive of scouting. I think one big difference I've seen in youth athletics overall is that bad coaches, unlike bad adult scout volunteers, generally don't linger. The volunteer shortage in scouting means the organization seems to hang on to almost any warm body, no matter how problematic. The existence of umpires and league arbiters also mean that the kinds of rule and vague policy questions that plague scouting, and are the source of numerous social media sites and posts, are resolved more efficiently in sports. As for adult scouters, one possible reason is I think scouting experiences are much more fragmented and individual. One adult might have been in a unit that camped all the time; another adult might have been in a unit that was more advancement driven; another in a unit that was very integrated with a religion; yet another with one that was influenced by military connections and philosophies. When they re-experience it with their kids, it can seem completely different and offputting and definitely more complicated. Sports, on the other hand, can seem almost universally familiar. There have been rule and equipment changes but pretty much youth basketball, football, baseball, soccer players are playing the same game their parents did no matter what part of the country they were from. It's easier to re-onboard with and more understandable. They don't need as much training to be functional.

While we have not seen specifics on how this may be implemented, we have been told that the 'rolling registrations' will be going away and we will be going back to everyone expiring/renewing at the same time.

Recommend you choose tongue twisters that do not twist into profanity Example of a naughty: "I saw Susie sitting in a shoeshine shop" Example of a nice: "Rubber baby buggy bumpers" --------------- Preview the jokes... make sure they are Scout appropriate. I know some ditties on dirty underwear that I learned in Scouts as a kid Not to be told in polite company...

A conversation with the scout might yield some pertinent information.

If the young person is challenged, perhaps seriously, in the "very competitieve school", then perhaps the Scouting is a release, and he or she finds it of lesser import. Age may be a factor eventually if the Scouting interest or involvement is consistent. I have had a couple of long term, but stalled in rank youths that suddenly somewhere past sixteen or seventeen light a fire under themselves for Scouting rank. Sadly, some waited too long, at least in ur unit where they still had to do the work. Every young person sometimes loses focus, or is too focused on other goals. We also do not know often what other pressures or home and school issues may "really" be in play. If they take the "Spirit" forward in their lives, the work is done.

While I'd never push advancement hard, I think it's still a useful tool for attracting and retaining kids with a high need for achievement. Based on what the OP shared (Scout attends a very competitive high school, but hasn't advanced in 3 years), it sounds like the program might be failing him. Agreed, it doesn't make sense.

Council does have a Unit Safety Director on staff. I have never seen or heard any indication of a Council Enterprise Risk Management (ERM) Committee. After a cursory read of the cited document, it does present a broad risk assessment algorithm and fortunately specifies the involvement of subject matter experts. Rather than ponder the risks of a developing and instituting a camp driver training program I returned to the concerns stated in my posts. Lake Erie Council has a mandatory policy that summer camp staff tow troop trailers over owned land to the respective troop campsite. Vehicles used are owned by the adult staff performing the work. This amounts to towing 75 - 100 trailers owned by as many different entities. As the troop trailers are in the temporary custody and control of Council employees this circumstance creates a bailee liability for Council. Generally this form of insurance coverage in not included in general commercial liability policies. I would expect this matter could be addressed by a phone call to Council's insurance carrier. The annual premium might be more than a few loads of gravel.

There is a mechanism already in place... 1. Scout tells parents they would like a new Scoutmaster, and articulates GOOD reasons for it. Parents tell committee: committee evaluates and takes action, with advice and consent of COR. 2. Scout tells Boards of Review they think they'd like a new Scoutmaster, and articulates GOOD reasons for it. (BoR is made of Committee Members and parents.) Committee evaluates and takes action, with advice and consent of COR. Although I understand the sentiment, youth must not make the decision of who should be Scoutmaster. (Inmates running the asylum and all ) To implement this would mean an abdication of responsibility by COR and Troop Committee. Unfortunately, reality is often that the Scoutmaster is simply the person with a pulse who said they'd do the job. In 45+ years of Scouting, I've never seen a unit with a decent succession plan. Still looking for that unicorn. (Yes, I have failed to get this accomplished in many a unit. If I was allowed to be the benevolent dictator, things would have been different.)

It's a great idea and good on you for trying but liability is the issue. They are in no authoritative position to confer any kind of credentialling and if an incident occurs it opens a can of worms that could only lead to enhanced liability. It's easier to just say park it and drive in.

Yes, staff driving a units vehicle or towing a units trailer is not normal. I can't say if it is unique to Beaumont; however, I have been to many scout camps and never experienced or heard of this before.

JUST IN CASE YOU NEED SOMETHING TO DO FRIDAY NIGHT....--- You are invited to the WHITE OAK DISTRICT BAND CONCERT - FRIDAY - 1/30/26 @ 7:30pm. (Prompt start - please arrive by 7:20) Come in person to Transfiguration Parish, 13925 New Hampshire Ave, Silver Spring, MD 20904 or watch it live at: https://transfig.org/livestream/ The band is composed of 35 scouts, their family members, and friends who have worked hard to provide a beautiful performance. We hope to see you at Transfiguration.

I agree. There is a staffer posted at each campsite to greet and assist incoming troops, then once camp is set take the guys on an orientation tour. A 10' x 20' gravel pad at each site near the road would would prevent any difficulties. But, as I wrote in an earlier post, gravel costs money. In the current system troops arrive at the campsite with personal gear then wait as much as 2.5 hours for their trailer with troop gear (tents) to appear. This year in a camp leaders Zoom call the camp director discussed the importance of working quickly to set camp. Apparently staff is inconvenienced by the delays. To me this smacks of defending a bad decision. InquisitiveScouter suggested finding another camp. That's in the works.

There is another layer. We rent a trailer from a national truck and trailer rental company. The parties to the rental agreement are well defined and documented in the contract. A third party using their vehicle to tow the rented trailer puts me in material breach of the contract and voids the purchased damage waiver and contents insurance. In the event of damage or worse I would be on the hook and then have to pursue council and the inept driver. That would be after I had to explain why I breached the contract. Oddly enough the solution is let the units bring in and park their trailers in identified spots in the campsites. I know they refuse to consider that.

For us, anyone driving camp (council) vehicles must be listed on the council's insurance policy. Units move and park their own trailers, and those vehicle operators assume liability risk on their own insurance policies per the G2SS, Transportation section: https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss11/ 13. All vehicles must be covered by automobile liability insurance with limits that meet or exceed the requirements of the state in which the vehicle is licensed. It is recommended, however, that coverage limits are at least $100,000 combined single limit. Any vehicle designed to carry ten or more passengers should have limit of $1,000,000. For insurance information refer to the Insurance section in the Guide to Safe Scouting. 14. When towing the tow vehicle driver has the knowledge, skills, and abilities to operate the vehicle with the attached unit. That your council is having "...adult staff using their personal vehicles tow all troop trailers..." is troubling. Council cannot require any staff member to use their personal vehicle for camp requirements, without remuneration and ensuring adequate liability coverage. If they make this some sort of condition for employment, or otherwise require employees (which camp staff are) to use their personal vehicles in this way, they are asking for trouble. Good luck convincing them

If the parent is adamant that the Scout isn't being held back on purpose, and there is nothing wrong with how the troop is operating, the only plausible scenario to me is the Scout is just not pursuing to get signed off on requirements or request a SM conference. If the Scout was doing those things, then based on what you have written, it would seem that the troop is holding them back and the parent isn't being honest to themself.

Thinking a bit more ... I am getting crotchety in my old age. LOL. ... I hope the scout can advance. That would be great. ... But when I hear a parent threaten to pull their scout out because they can't advance, I am frustrated. Advancement is just one benefit and not the biggest one. Is the scout having a positive experience in scouting? Having fun? Growing in character and responsibility? If so, that's the big part. ... I wish advancement always naturally followed that, but it doesn't always. And it makes me sad when the scout loses out on advancement. ... But to threaten to pull the scout because of that is also frustrating to me.

All of last year the national and regional meetings discussed consolidations of use and more days of use on existing camps. I get what is being said, a lot of camps are literally used for only 6 to 8 weeks a year and then they sit unused drawing resources for maintenance.

I know when we did how a troop meeting is done with the old SM Fundamentals (SMF) Training, we were told we were to act like Scouts, and work as patrols during our meeting. Maybe because of my age at the time, but I didn't have problems. And I didn't notice any of my patrol mates having problems either. If memory serves, the model PLC used the actual SMF troop PLs with the rest of us watching. But I may be getting confused with BA22 and JLTC. But I agree 100%, training needs to focus more on interaction with Scouts through mentoring and counseling. That was a skill set, counseling PLs while being SPL or JASM, with both BA 22 and JLTC, was very applicable as an adult.

Learning for Life is not a bonus. LFL is a subsidiary that most councils, at least the ones I have been in and work for, don't want to have, because once established, they need that program to grow as well. I got into major trouble for tryng to convert "In School Scouting" units to LFL groups. I don't think they are trying to cheat the system. I think they are tyring to synchronize their Scout's membership renewal with the unit's recharter.

Hard to really tell, but you are correct, something seems off.

This is a good method if the instructors are clear that "Hey you're doing this pretending to be the members of the PLC, you're learning through their eyes". That's not often clear though right? WB will help if your council actually runs WB correctly. My local WB is so disgusting that leaders are starting to travel out of council in order to try and experience the process correctly. Here's a juicy quote from a fellow leader "I'm going to PTC to do WB because I want to be able to come back and audit the local WB and tell these idiots how they don't have a clue as to what they're doing."

In my neck of the woods very few of the councils seem to have all of the mandatory committees. As far as I know, at best my council's safety committee(s) [there are technically two required now] are on paper only, I have never heard of them meeting or putting out anything to the various district committees.

Another reason on adult attitudes was WHEN (emphasis) they were in Scouting. I know a former Scouter who was an Eagle in the 1972-1979 "Improved Scouting Program" era. That was when it was possible to be an Eagle without a single night of camping. He could not understand why camping was important.