Leaderboard

A very interesting Youtube video from Ken LaCorte about the decline of the Boy Scouts. Not sure I agree with the claim of the title but much of the content is good.

The quality of out professional leadership is garbage, they keep changing requirements and processes without any consideration for the volunteers, creating further problems and hassles for volunteers to deal with. Fixed it for you.

My viewpoint is based on literally talking with people and making sure they understood what was coming and they blew it off. I'm a unit trainer and I literally had a leader tell me this was their excuse to exit the leadership and blame national when I reminded him 72hrs out and asked if he needed any help. The quality of our leadership is garbage; I can't do the training for the other leaders and (in my unit at least) they refused help prior to the cutoff and are now blaming national for screwing up.

Beginning of June update: Total Unit-Based Youth: 746,579, down 8,061 from last month, or -1.1% (this does not include numbers for Learning for Life)

All volunteers are in decline, but I think your viewpoint is part of why volunteers are declining so much in scouting. Volunteers are largely viewed and treated as unpaid employees and this is a condition pretty unique to scouting. As far as YPT, there has been a lot of confusion and many complaints down in the weeds about the process this year. I do think younger generations have less patience today for putting up with the kinds of organizational dysfunction and poor leadership that older generations did. They also expect technology to be their friend and for any portal or interface to be functional, user friendly, and seamless.

No, it is an attitude issue. Sadly I have seen too many pros over the years who could give a flip about the program and volunteers, they just want FOS dollars and membership increases. Fixed it for you

I have been Scouting since the 80's and have never heard of a "Service Troop." However, when I did an internet search, a Service Troop is described as an ad hoc unit formed to address a specific task, and is liken to a "Service Corps", formed at and for specific events, like a council camporee, national jamboree, a county or state fair, etc. --------------------------------- As far as I can remember, no Troop is ever "required" to help their CO with CO events. But it is just good policy. A Troop is a guest in the CO's space, so it expected they would provide some help to further the CO's interests, insofar as those interests are aligned with those of Scouting. Adorning veteran's graves with flags for Memorial Day Observances is a clear cut example of that alignment. ---------------------------------- The adult leaders' responses are correct... it is the Scouts who are supposed to run the Troop. But, this could also be a convenient excuse for them to ignore or sideline your request... ------------------------------------ So, is your COR a member of the Legion? If not, that is a mistake, IMHO, and should be corrected post haste... If the COR is a member of the Legion, then the Legion Commander (the Institution Head) should ask (tell) the COR to set expectations with the unit for some service to the Chartering Organization. That is a negotiation... zero is not the right answer, and weekly is not the right answer, either... so, you have boundary limits. Find your happy place in there. We try to do a quarterly service for our CO (a church). Scouts will often set up tables and chairs for church events, remove fallen tree limbs from the adjacent cemetery, and clean/decorate (with flag) veterans' graves for Memorial Day. We also advise Eagle Scout candidates about their opportunities for service projects with our CO. We have built playgrounds and prayers gardens for our CO, or helped staff fundraising events like bake sales and bbq's. Our Scouts also participate in the service and put on a kit for each Scout Sunday. If you get pushback from the Scouts, unit leaders, or council, then simply terminate your charter.... which begs the question, does your COR have a current (signed) charter from the council for your unit for 2026? http://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/524-95626-Annual-Charter-Agreement.pdf Take a look and read line II A. 3. the CO must "Refrain from using the Scouting brand as a means to imply Scouting America’s endorsement of the objectives of the Charter Organization, except with respect to youth development, consistent with the goals and objectives of the Scouting program." [Underlining added for emphasis.] To elaborate more on this... part of the Legion's reason for existence is covered in their Preamble https://www.legion.org/about/organization/preamble If you at just three of those principles: "To foster and perpetuate a one hundred percent Americanism; To preserve the memories and incidents of our associations in all wars; To inculcate a sense of individual obligation to the community, state and nation; " , then you can rightly draw the conclusion that placing flags on veteran's graves meets those objectives, AND that planting flags is also "consistent with the goals and objectives of the Scouting Program" So the Legion is fully within it's Chartering Organization rights and duties, under the Annual Charter, to require their Scout units to participate in this event. ---------------------------------------- Six months lead time is not bad, because many units plan their calendar that far in advance. Since you know when Memorial Day is going to happen, you can put in a standing request that (for example) the Scout unit must support flag planting on the Saturday before Memorial Day each year. You can work out the wording of that with them. Now the real question comes... If the Scouts refuse, does anyone in the Legion have the courage to terminate the unit? If you do not have a current signed Charter for the council, then you can terminate the unit immediately, and refuse them from using your facilities or property (trailers and unit gear belongs to the CO.) If you have a signed charter, then you must abide by that agreement and wait for it to expire. You do not have to renew 😜 ------------------------------------------- Kilts are not a part of the official uniform. "Heritage thing" is the wrong answer. If someone at Council actually said this, they are way out of line and do not know what they are talking about. See the Guide to Awards and Insignia, for example ; https://www.scouting.org/resources/insignia-guide/ Part VII, Official Uniforms ; "The official uniforms authorized as evidence of official relationship to Scouting America are those approved by Scouting America from time to time, as illustrated and correctly described in the handbooks, catalogs, and other official guidelines of Scouting America. The official uniforms and parts thereof may be issued only as authorized by Scouting America and sold either directly by the National Service Center through responsible local merchants designated as local Scouting distributors or through designated local councils. Local Scouting distributors may be appointed and licensed and the licenses revoked only by the National Service Center, but chartered local councils may make recommendations for such actions. Imitation of United States Army, Navy, or Marine Corps uniforms is prohibited, in accordance with the provisions of the organization’s Congressional Charter." So, again, I ask... does anyone at the Legion have the courage to hold the unit accountable? It is your unit after all... Good luck

The Chartering Organization is under no obligation to continue. I would think service to the CO, while not "required" seems like a good way for the scouts to maintain goodwill with an Org which provides space, support, and likely $. Also a provides a means for scouts to demonstrate living a primary value of scouting as stated in the Slogan and Oath. Lastly participation in service checks off advancement requirements. I think this situation is ripe for the SM to sit down with the PLC and pose the question, and provide some guidance. Personally I would "seed" the conversation by spinning relevant yarns at a prior meetings using my SM minute. I would probably do at least 4 or 5 with the same theme.

Change the word "Boys" to "Adults", and we are onto something.

This seemed like a (mostly) thoughtful take. Aside from stating the obvious (lawsuits and recent membership changes have adversely impacted participation), he honed in on 2 other factors: 1. Civic engagement (Elks Club, Optimists, etc.) and church attendance has decreased in the US. These organizations have been major sponsors of the BSA and their parallel decline has resulted in less support for Scouting. 2. Society's definition of masculinity has widened. Fewer young men are expected to hunt, farm, fix cars, or join the military. Scouting was once viewed as an age-appropriate way to introduce self-reliance to boys. Today, those hard skills are less important in the information economy. I especially appreciate the second point. I doubt I'd meet the standard of 1970s masculinity. I'm not handy. I maintain my home to the minimum standard and hire help the second I get in over my head. However, I do make a decent living. Plus, we live in a safe neighborhood and are on track for retirement. My son also has everything he needs, including most of my attention outside of work. By the 2020s standards of masculinity, I'm probably doing just fine.

BSA will be headed to bankruptcy again. They retained massive debt after the last bankruptcy and their business plan showed membership growth to over a million scouts by now. I saw some of their presentations online. I hope their plans work, but I struggle to see a turnaround in membership.

Thanks...you made my point for me. Those axed volunteers go back and spread the word and we lose more volunteers. Recent resetting the YPT date to 5/31 to a large majority of adults is another case where a national decision is driving more volunteers away since they see no value added.

Nada in the slide presentations.

Was there a slide in a presentation that showed the trendline that anyone has and can share? Was there a breakdown of the 500K? 30% Chipmunks, 30% Lions, 40 % Eagles? 😁

I was skeptical of his 'facts' right of the bat with the comment the Boy Scouts have disappeared, (we have not); and the claim that in the latter half of the 1900's 20% of boys were Scouts. We discuss membership numbers every month at our Council Commissioner meeting. While it has looked bleak for a while, at least in my council, numbers are starting to stabilize. We have more units this month than we had at this time last year, and while only by a handful, we have more Scouts than the same time last year. I am hopeful that some of the changes coming out of NAM will result in meaningful improvements and will put us on the path to sustainable growth.

No, it is an attitude issue. Sadly I have seen too many pros over the years who could give a flip about the program and volunteers, they just want FOS dollars and membership increases. Some of the reasons I have seen quality volunteers leave: being yelled and cursed out at by pros; having pros cancel your event ( which has been going on for decades) to push the new council event; asking council for help, and being ignored; running an event and being told you have to have a second event at the same site and time; running an event , creating your supply order well in advance, and finding out the week of that no supplies were ordered, then having the pros ticked off at you for going over budget purchasing those supplies; and I am sure I forgot a few.

The larger issue may well be that those "quality" people are discouraged at every turn. I can only speak locally, but more and more are just thowing in the towel because of foolish and non responsive local council people, many who have no idea about the program as it was framed. A really sad example; this past week a Council individual involved in eradicating some of those pesky actuall Scouting people, cleaning up a space, came across a stash of poles and staves. He tried to throw them out as trash wood. When he was challenged he had no idea they were kept to use for lashing and pioneering practice. Tossing old patrol flags because nobody cares. Suggesting uniform closet is a waste of time, and they can "buy" a uniform. Surely most here can add many similar disconnects. Will maybe discover what my status is this evening when the take over squad meets in our location to straighten it all out.🫥🤔😡

I think quality volunteers is in decline. We're seeing this right now. After 60 days of reminders we now have hundreds of volunteers in every council running around with expired youth protection training because they are of such low quality that they couldnt do free training with up to 60 days of reminder notice.

The problem isn't necessarily salary bloat, it is that the resource has been mis-applied. To survive, scouting is going to have to devote more resources towards unit operations even as unit numbers decrease. That's because the bar is always being raised due to incidents and liability issues. One of the huge issues facing scouting is the degree to which it has always relied upon volunteers. Volunteers and volunteerism, though, are in general decline. Unlike other youth organizations and many nonprofits, scouting has never developed strategies to cope with this reality, largely because it requires re-engineering structure far beyond consolidating councils. Apart from not having the bodies, scouting also lacks reliable expertise. You can't train unpaid volunteers enough to be considered expert in some of these areas. The aforementioned Range and Target sports is one example. In the years ahead, that is an area where scouting is likely going to be forced to either contain those activities to places where it can provide professional level supervision, provide direct paid unit support, or contract with third party providers.

I would expect that response as I have heard it before. If the claim is fundraising is necessaryto provide service to the units, there should still be a measureable service to the units as a result. Fundraising may be a means, but it is not the end. The metric for success is the ends; service to the units. If this metric is not met, the funds raised are not being used, or used improperly. I would be happy to go toe-to-toe with any council executive.

You went on a Chat GPT binge of legal advice and opinions.

You got me.

To me, one of the hard parts may be dealing with the egos of the adults from the combined units. The fight will be over who's in control. This is the way we did it; no, we did it this way. Does not change the cause of the failed units. Until we address the reasons youth are not coming or staying, scouting will go the way of G-scouting.