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Earmark weekends and "big" themes (canoe trip, campsgiving, district camporee) at annual planning conference. At APC they come up with a prioritized list of locations they want to camp. Outdoor activities chair and I (adults) work off that list to get sites booked throughout the year. PLC meets monthly and plans specifics based on where we land for campsite. We used to try to earmark specific sites for specific months, but found the popular sites were often hard to get. So we just try month after month until we get it. Then that's where we'll be and the PLC determines the theme/activities for the campout based on all the facts. We are (now) strictly Patrols on campouts. Cooking included. No exception and I NEVER split patrols. Either they just deal with the fact there's only 2 or 3 of their patrol going or the Patrol decides to team up with anther Patrol. But it's the entire patrol teaming up. I don't permit patrol mates to be separated. And I usually encourage them NOT to team up and to just roll with it. It's not perfect, but it's youth lead and Patrol method and IMO that's the way.5 points
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So funny. When I was a PL, we raided our parents’ pantries for what we would need for the weekend. Each member was responsible for an item. Stopping at the store was usually a Thursday evening activity. My kids recently described me as “chaotic good.”4 points
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True story: Way back when, our Troop had a regular campsite on the property owned by somebody's uncle's aunt (....) way back in some timber. It was a good mile back off the paved road. We had even developed some regular "Patrol " campsites. One sunday after breaking camp, I was the Patrol leader, and would be the last one out of the camp. I packed up, shouldered my pack and walked out up the trail. When I got to the road parking area (it wasn't really a "parking lot"), I discovered there was no one there! I had been left behind ! My Patrol buddies hadn't realized I was not there with them. Poor planning on my part, as PL.... Nearest phone might be 3 or 4 miles down the road... Knock on a house door? Naw.... I walked on out to the main road and sat down. I knew my folks would realize I was not at the church to be picked up (or was I going to be dropped off at home? I forget). I had a canteen of water, some snacky food, it was about 1pm I guess, so I sat down to wait. Yes, I was disappointed no one missed me, no one "counted noses", there would be a discussion later, I guess... Cars drove by, no one stopped or asked about me. I guess I looked "equiped", backpack and all. A couple of hours later, my dad showed up, and none the worse for wear, we went home. What would happen today?3 points
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I disagree, I think that most boys do not have an issue with it, HOWEVER from my personal experience most boys want time with other boys without girls. For many boys this age it is a confusing time socially in many different ways, not just girls, and scouting is a great out from that, away from phones, in nature, wearing uniforms (no pressure on clothing choice), all meaning less pressure to act a certain way socially. And let’s be completely honest, majority of scouts are cisgender and would likely feel some of that pressure around people of the opposite gender. There is no issue with girls in scouts, but guys and girls should both have their time away from today’s social pressures and scouting provides that.3 points
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@AwakeEnergyScouter I feel your perplexity. But, that’s only because you’re not the first European scout who I’ve dialogued with. Americans thrive (wallow?) in paradoxes. The YMCA is chock full of non-Christians and women. My brother went swimming at the YWCA. Everybody in my town has participated in Jewish community center activities. None of that makes anyone feel trans or religion-fluid. Likewise, girls don’t shed their femininity being in programs for boys. For some it’s a status symbol. Being on-the-ground with American youth revealed this peculiar mental framework. When I started my Venturing Crew almost 20 years ago, the girls — especially Girl Scouts — who signed up were thrilled to be Boy Scouts. One told me as much and I had a hard time convincing her that she was a Venturer! There is something very valuable for many young women in this country to know that this “for boys” organization lets them work their program. I think it partly had to do with a “victim mentality” foisted upon them by activist types. GS/USA’s “girl power” mantra sort of plays off of that. In BSA, nobody told them they had any special powers. They could work the goals of this program (or not) and nobody made them feel like they were some kind of revolutionary. (Most GS/USA leaders who I knew avoided the whole “girl power” rhetoric. It was the literature that gave off an “us vs. them” vibe.) So, for some young American women, being a girl in Boy Scouts of America carried more prestige than being a young woman in Scouts BSA or Scouting America. Who really wanted there to be Scouts BSA Handbook for Girls and a Scouts BSA Handbook for Boys? No youth ever! All my boys get the one for boys (although I’ve offered to get them the one for girls if they wanted). I’d be curious to know how many girls there are who, given the choice, would ask for the “for Boys” edition.3 points
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We may make more of that than is needed, just because many of us were around before and after the change, and we're more trying to find our own way on how adjust. Each country has their own flavor on how they have set up their program, but the comparable program to what many of us have known as "Cub Scouts" and "Boy Scouts" are just "Cub Scouts" and "Scouts" to them. Scouts UK Scouts Canada Squirrel Scouts 4-5 years Beaver Scouts 5-7 years Beaver Scouts 6-7 years Cub Scouts 8-10 years Cub Scouts 8-10.5 years Scouts 11-14 years Scouts 10.5-14 years Venturer Scouts 15-17 years Explorers 15-17 years Rover Scouts 18-26 years Network members 18-25 years Scouts Mexico Scouts Brazil Cub Scouts 6-9 years Cub Scouts 6.5-10 years Scouts 10-13 years Scouts 11-14 years Walkers 14-17 years Senior Scouts 15-17 years Rovers 18-21 years Pioneers 18-21 years3 points
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3 points
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There are approximately 300 survivors, and I am one of them, who paid $10k-$20k, to the trust to have our claims settled through the IRO. That's $6,000,000.00 that needs to be refunded back to us if the plan is not confirmed. This doesn't even include the expense of obtaining an Expert Report required for the IRO. Probably a few million dollars more too. Then there is Discovery which isn't free either. The worst part is those of us who have gone through the 6-hour deposition and/or IRO hearing with the un-settled insurance carriers. My depo went almost the full 6 hours, and my attorneys said their other client's depos are taking just as long. I had to sit there and recount in graphic detail describing the sexual abuse, how long it lasted, when was the 1st time, etc. Yes, the insurance carriers are requiring explicit details about the sexual abuse. I suffered panic and anxiety attacks for more than a week after the depo. Day and night. I had to bring back memories that I had since buried and thought I would never have to recount again to another human being. I felt so ashamed and guilty that I called my attorney back after the weekend. The look and the facial expressions on the court reporter said it all. I wanted to apologize to her for having to sit through and listen to my ordeal. That's no walk in the park for any of us. Potentially un-winding this plan to try to add more zeros behind a check isn't going to make what happened any more palatable or bring additional closure. We will live with these awful memories and the fallout for the rest of our lives. I voted "No" on the plan because I didn't like my sponsoring organization getting a free ride on the coattails of the BSA bankruptcy. But after 4 years in this bankruptcy and going through this much re-living of trauma, I want it over. My wife, kids and family want it over too. They have witnessed and experienced 1st hand the toll this taken on me. I dare say the same is true for the other survivors. The American Civil War lasted from 1861 - 1865. We are now exceeding that threshold. How much more blood needs to be spilled? Yes, the blood of those survivors who passed away due to age, health or their own hands.2 points
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"At the end of September, members of Poindextor explorer scout group took part in ‘Sky Camp’, a competition where they had to build, sleep and cook food on a platform constructed in the trees. Taking place in the woods at Paccar Scout Camp, the platforms had to be constructed from materials such as wooden poles, ropes, nets and tarpaulins. Participants slept in hammocks, which were suspended between the trees. Every team competing had to have a theme, as well as food and a menu for the weekend...." More at Source including photo: https://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/young-reporter/24678266.northwood-explorer-scouts-sky-camp-2024/2 points
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As the many months of this whole process have laid bare, there are many counter-intuitive results. National and insurance companies escaping largely unscathed, while the "totally independent" local councils, say what, "volunteer" to a council, to pay the bulk of National's debt. With respect to attorney's fees, another contra-intuitive result obtains: attorney's fees are the result of a private agreement between client and attorney and not part of the bankruptcy proceeding, per se. I am not a bankruptcy practitioner, much less an expert, but I recall a local bankruptcy judge mandating maximum fees for individual bankruptcies. But that was many years ago. If bankruptcy judges have the authority to limit attorney's fees, either the judges are not inclined to do so on their own initiative, or no one has filed a Petition/Motion and asked the judge to consider the issue. Being an attorney (I am hoping for a better outcome in the next life) under the circumstances, 40% is obscene. Just my $250,000,000.00 worth.2 points
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Building confidence to overcome anxiety SAVEs another ... Nine-year-old James, who struggles with anxiety, says his recent training in Boy Scouts allowed him to overcome his fear in the moment, call 911, and save his mother's life. “I wanted to join because we have been camping and fishing and doing a bunch of cart racing stuff, and it's a lot of stuff that I like.” After quitting Scouts several times, James decided to come back, and it was at the right time when he learned a life-saving technique just weeks before he would use it. “We practiced calling 911, and they would give us scenarios, and we would kind of say what we would do if that actually happened. Then, a couple of weeks later, my mom had the allergic reaction, so I kind of knew what to do.” And he did. Both James and his Mom are ok. Scout salute, More at source: https://www.cnycentral.com/news/local/nine-year-old-overcomes-anxiety-to-save-mothers-life-with-skills-learned-in-cub-scouts2 points
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1. BSA NATIONAL LIQUIDATES and/ or 2. Insurance companies pony up a LOT more $$$ to liquidation trustee 3 LC’s Liquidate and/or see 2 above . 4. Charter orgs voluntarily liquidate or file Ch 11. also See 2 above. 4. Some survivors carry on with litigation including bad faith claims against insurance companies. 5. More states open or reopen windows to allow more survivors a path to just compensation. See 2 above. 6. Scouting becomes a verb again, not a brand name Many regional and local scouting organizations form and compete with each other to develop the safest system, best and lower cost scouting experience not having to carry the corrupt dead weight of the bureaucracy. Scouting discovers its roots again.2 points
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Read this Krause opinion and tell me you can’t see where this is headed. Plan is likely going south. https://casetext.com/case/in-re-one2one-commcns-llc2 points
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Judge Krauss is the presiding judge on the panel!! We who are rooting that the court reverses this horribly rotten Plan could not have drawn a better judge in the whole country! She’s the biggest opponent of equitable mootness there is. She wants to abolish the doctrine. Oral arguments Nov 6. 3rd Circuit US Court of Appeals. Philadelphia 10:00 am.2 points
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I don't disagree, but most kids get 40+ hours of mixed gender interaction each week through school. I'm not sure a 1-hour, single-gender Scout meeting each week leads to unacceptable social norms. In fact, I think it may be complimentary in that it gives them a reprieve from constant social pressures. I'm not looking to re-hash old arguments. I've been generally supportive of the membership changes from the past decade. Coed Scouting works fine for Cubs and the Senior Scout programs; however, we're denying kids a development opportunity if we don't at least offer them the OPTION of single-gender Scout Troops. Middle school is rough.2 points
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I admit I don’t understand this comment. Do all youth live in a cocoon except during scouting activities. Except for sports, youth are coed in just about all their activities since the age for Mother’s Day out. in fact, I think one would struggle to get through a day without doing at least one coed activity. Single gender scouting is not depriving anyone from developing awareness of the other gender on the broader front. Barry2 points
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2 points
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I think it should be up to the unit. All Scouting is local. Forcing coed situations on children who are not ready for such a thing can drive them out of the program. Let boys be boy and girls be girls. They already have to change their behavior at school to avoid some social faux pas that will follow them for years. Scouting should be an escape from that society, not an extension of it. Of course, with the increase of classroom requirements, maybe Scouting is destined to simply be school part 2.2 points
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Recently, National hosted a Safeguarding Youth Symposium in Las Vegas. Both David Chadwick, CEO and Founder of RealResponse and Ju'Riese Coln CEO of U.S. Center for SafeSport spoke among others (see above link). Recall @mrjohns2 informed us of SafeSport in the wandering topic BSA Lifeguard Program To Be Discontinued. I do not know if there are online recordings or transcripts of their presentations.2 points
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"Cub Scout Pack" vs. "Scout Troop" is the cleanest delineator today, IMHO. When I'm talking with the Cubs, I may say something like "When you're a little older and join a Scout Troop, ..." I'll often refer to the BSA/SA as the "national organization."2 points
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Well said. We found that while many scouts get leadership experience, leadership skills are learned more by watching other leaders. And leadership training doesn't add much to the development. Which is why we stopped offering repetitive annual leadership development courses and started offering leadership tuning courses on demand. Why attend a skill you already know when instead get instruction for an area of leadership that you are struggling with? Outdoors truly is the foundation for scouting because it puts the scouts in a challenging environment where they must make survival decisions. If you watch closely, you see that the patrol members must make many decisions just to cook a meal. The farther the patrol gets from working as a team, the more they struggle to enjoy a tasty meal. The outdoors forces evaluations of bad decisions and rewards for good decisions. The outdoors forces wisdom and integrity simply through the efforts of surviving the campout. The biggest hindrance to that growth is the adults not allowing the scouts to have that experience. Adults can only get out of the way by separating their camp 200 feet away from the scout's camp. I love this scouting stuff. Barry2 points
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In defense of those parents, I don't think the BSA (SA?) has done a particularly good job of branding itself in the public sphere, considering those of us closer to the program still struggle. I still do not know how to refer to the classic Scouting program formerly for boys ages 11-18. We used to distinguish between "Cub Scouts" and "Boy Scouts." Then it was "Cub Scouts" and "Scouts BSA." Now, I guess it would be "Cub Scouts" and just "Scouts?" That's confusing because Cub Scouts are also Scouts, are they not?2 points
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National has to fix the girl troop/blended troop/coed troop issue before any female cub scout uptick can have a beneficial affect on troops. In my area we've lost so many female scouts due to no or poor troop options over the past 2 years. National needs to pull the trigger on full coed before next April or we're just going to lose a ton of female scouts yet again in crossover season.2 points
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The brand rollout is a soft rollout starting in June 2024, the hard rollout with national media campaigns starts on B&G 2025. Nationals marketing department told us to start using SA instead of BSA but said the rebranding is really focused on starting in 2025.2 points
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1 point
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An impressive, well-considered Eagle project, Scout Salute. Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/montevideo-boy-scout-dog-park/1 point
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Be nice if they reduced the lawyers comp. I saw where of the 2.4 billion that 1 billion went to the lawyers. Should have gone to the survivors.1 point
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In 2019, about 2.1 million youth in BSA. In 2023, slightly less than a million. In 2019, about 1.7 million youth in GSUSA. In 2023 slightly more than a million. As of October, there are around a million girls in GSUSA and about 880,000 +/- scouts in BSA/SA.1 point
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IMHO, this has some possibilities: 1. We will see how scouting membership is impacted by a single variable - registration dues. No pandemic, no legal/bankruptcy complications. 2. Price parity with BSA/SA might lead more girls to consider joining us. $85, should I choose GSUSA or BSA/SA? Ooops, I guess I just added a complication to analysis in 1.1 point
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Growing up (in the UK), I was as a cub and then a scout - officially, the program was cub scouts, but the youth were known as cubs.1 point
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I have no idea what kind of neighborhoods surround the arch. It's possible that this decision may have been warranted.1 point
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My district held its annual Fall Cub Day Camp yesterday. We're fortunate to have a great group of volunteers that put this event together every year. Best I can tell, it's staffed mostly by older adults whose children have long since aged out of the program and whose ties to local units have dissolved. We're also fortunate to have a DE that was an Eagle Scout in this same district and who makes everyone feel like the most important volunteer in the council, even though he himself is the one working long, odd hours for what I'm sure amounts to ~$15/hour. The Fall day camp is a great way to get Cubs outside before the crummy winter weather in our region limits our options. I was even able to piggy-back our monthly Wolf Den meeting onto the event and complete an Orienteering Adventure. The only downside: several activity stations were closed on short notice due to what our DE cited as "recent changes to the national guidelines for the operations of range and target activities." I'm not too familiar with the G2SS, but we were unable to have archery, slingshots, or paper rockets ~ all of which had been offered in previous years and were popular among Cubs and parents. This will hardly be a surprise to many forum members, but it feels like the national organization is making Scouting marginally safer at great expense to the program. Honestly, I was more concerned about someone catching a hook in the eye at the fishing station yesterday than I would have been about launching a homemade paper rocket using an air compressor operated by an adult.1 point
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I mean just go full coed. How hard is this. The GTSS and YPT can handle the tenting and buddy system issues quite easily.1 point
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100% dead on correct. Outdoor adventures sells itself. Leadership is boring and can be gotten many, many, many other ways. Scouting flounders when explicitly teaching leadership. Very few people can teach "leadership"; virtually zero scout leaders. Perhaps, if BSA sells itself on teaching leadership, the chief scout should be Tony Robbins or the next Stephen Covey. On the flip side, scout leaders are really good at teaching the outdoor skills and enabling campouts and adventures. And, by being outdoors, you learn leadership and fellowship and and responsibility and helping each other. But, don't market based on that. Market adventure and outdoors.1 point
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I think we're all struggling with this. I have found myself saying and writing "cub scouts" more (for cub scouts, of course) whereas I used to just say "scouts" about them, and "the regular scouting program" about what is formally called Scouts BSA and trying to reserve "scouts" for those older youth. But I can see that my division of cub scouts being "extra" and Scouts BSA being the "regular" program isn't necessarily how others around me think about it so I don't know that I'd recommend that last bit. I suppose the way it used to be way back when cub scouts were wolf cubs and blue-winged butterflies makes it clear in that 'scout' isn't even in the name for those, but it would be a real bad idea to give up the US Cub Scouts brand when there's nothing particularly wrong with it. But, certainly, to me 'scouts' is the patrol-method-using thing above all else, so while it doesn't solve the problem directly I do think that adding that 'cub' for cub scouts can help with clarity.1 point
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BSA needs to revamp the whole Eagle process. Scouts should be able to work on BSA camps, AND, scouts should be encouraged to revisit old projects before starting something fresh.1 point
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Ours is the Monday before. The time sink is having too many ppl involved in the process. At the troop meeting, the PLC has set aside some time (20 minutes) for patrol meetings. Here, the patrol plans their campout, not as a whole group, but by specific roles. The patrol leader helps each member with their specific task to plan. APL helps PL. Each role might have an assistant. Grubmaster plans menu. Hikemaster plans activities. QM requisions needed gear from troop QM. Cheermaster plans campfire. Having a group discuss bacon or sausage for twenty minutes is a time sink.1 point
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"From May 20 to May 21, 2023, members of Troop 18 hiked and camped a twelve-mile section of the Appalachian Trail, starting at its entrance into Connecticut at Sherman, and finishing in Kent. ... On September 21, 2024 scouts from Killingworth Boy Scout Troop 18 continued their goal to hike all fifty miles of the Appalachian Trail in Connecticut and hiked the last fourteen mile stretch. The scouts completed the first thirty-six miles in Connecticut over the previous two years. They started this most recent climb in Falls Village and hiked twelve miles to the Brassie Brook campsite in Salisbury where they camped overnight. The following morning the scouts hiked to the summit of Bear Mountain, which is the highest peak in Connecticut at 2,316 feet. The scouts then hiked to the Connecticut-Massachusetts border, completing all fifty miles in Connecticut. The scouts plan to continue hiking the Appalachian Trail next spring." New York: 88.4 miles of AT trail Massachusetts: 90 miles of AT trail New Hampshire: 169.0 miles of AT trail Note trail sections are subject to change. Scouting adventures. Scout Salute More at sources: https://hk-now.com/a-busy-spring-for-killingworth-boy-scout-troop-18/ https://hk-now.com/killingworth-scout-troop-completes-connecticut-appalachian-trail-trek/1 point
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I am so glad that 1 camp I go to is not owned by the council, but rented to them.. Non-profit trust owns it, and will not give it to the council outright. Trusts handing over ownership of camps to councils has been a very bad move for about 20 years now, but especially in light of the ongoing bankruptcy.1 point
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1 point
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IMHO, you will likely end up with a sore arm and just find someone too slow to duck who may only change the name. "Following a decade of membership decline in the 1990s, Scouts saw exceptional growth when Bear became Chief Scout. It was a brilliant pick (and as a volunteer, he's never been paid a penny for the time he's given). Young people and volunteers, hungry for adventure, decided to join the movement in their droves. Bear transformed Scouts' image, attracted new volunteers* and motivated us all with his ‘never give up’ attitude." IMHO, we could use some Bear Gryll's attitude here and less closed room discussions with questionable growth projection graphs. Source: https://www.scouts.org.uk/news/2024/july/saying-thank-you-and-goodbye-to-bear-grylls/ *Dwayne is working to recruit more volunteers. My $0.021 point
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FYI, found this from NAM 2024 presentation Change the Way We Work Together. (26 pages) by Jeff Hunt, Assistant Chief Scout Executive. EVP, and Chief Operating Officer. Gary Crum, Chair National Operations Leadership Committee Freddy Norton Chair Membership and Relationships Committee had several slides. Source: https://nam.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2024/05/Change-the-Way-We-Work-Together.pdf1 point
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It really depends on the scouts, over the past handful of years I have seen scouts that were not ready at 11 crossover and then drop; yet, I have seen 2 high functioning 10 year olds crossover and outperform older scouts at the troop. Last January I saw a 10 year old tent alone during troop winter camp while several 13-15 year olds needed to tent with their parents due to lack of winter camping knowledge and fear. It really depends on the scout and the program currently has a bit more flexibility to push those higher functioning 10 and 11 year olds up asap which is nice. It would be good if there was a better way to manage 11 and 12 year olds that are not ready for the troop. It makes sense to shorten cubs from a viewpoint of what is best for a single child scout or when evaluating a scout in isolation; however, we have to remember that the younger ranks were added due to tag along siblings. Those tag along siblings are going to be there no matter what, and so they experience burnout regardless of registration situation. What we have seen over time is that it is better to capture those youth into the program at k5 - 2nd grade and let them maturate as scouts instead of having them develop a distaste to the program from being locked out due to their age.1 point
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I got an email on Friday titled Monthly Renewal Information with a list of everyone whose is scheduled to expire on August 31. Those parents should have also received notification on Friday, and I will be contacting them individually to be sure they did receive it and to confirm their status for the upcoming pack year.1 point
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This is what happens when educators take over the program. BP said it best: "Boys can see adventure in a dirty old duck puddle, and if the Scoutmaster is a boys’ man he can see it too." “See things from the boy's point of view.” "A boy is not a sitting-down animal." "A fisherman does not bait his hook with food he likes. He uses food the fish likes. So with boys." We need folks writing advancement requirements who can see things through a kid's eye, remembering the excitement and adventures of their youth. We need folks writing advancement requirements who realize the importance of experimental learning, as opposed to formal learning. We need folks writing advancement requirements that understand that some folks, especially boys, learn by doing. We need folks writing advancement requirements that understand that failure is a learning method, probably one of the best. We need folks writing advancement requirements that understand giving responsibility to youth is a way to help them learn and grow. But most importantly We need folks writing advancement requirement that understand that we cannot be all things to all people because "The open-air is the real objective of Scouting and the key to its success." (sorry for some bolding, cannot undo it despite several attempts.)1 point
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I'm not sure I understand. The 20 miler has been part of the requirements for as long as I can remember. The recent requirement change is from 5, 3 x 10, 15, 20 (6 hikes, 70 miles) to 4x 10, 20 (5 hikes, 60 miles) They have reduced the total distance by 10 miles and the number of hikes by 1.1 point
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I won't be much help, but wanted to say OBDURACY is such a great adjective and sadly, so apt for many council/district interactions.1 point