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As of yesterday I'm no longer associated with a unit or district. I've lost interest in scouting and now have 3 grandkids that I care much more about. I adore them and even though I've had a cold twice, hoof in mouth and covid, all since the start of Nov, it's worth it. But I don't have time for meetings with bored teenagers or campouts with a handful of scouts. If the parents were still engaged like they were even 10 years ago I'd make the time, but they're not. It seems the same way on this forum. I'm not a leader and I never thought I was. I just kept at it because I believed in it. I'm not going to change anything anymore. So, it's time to move on. I hope scouting figures things out. It was fun. I have good memories. There were some good people on this forum as well. I may poke my nose in once in a while but my interest is waning. I'd rather go for a hike to take some nice photos. Take care everyone. @RememberSchiff and @Eagle1993 , I'll start a thread in the moderator area.

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2024/12/30/jimmy-carter-was-a-scout-leader-and-silver-buffalo-winner-known-for-telling-great-stories-around-the-campfire/

@MattR Nice to have you around the campfire Thanks for serving as a Moderator! The BSA will limp along until it perishes from self-inflicted wounds or radically transforms. The former is more likely than the latter. Scouting will always be a thing. It was a thing even before it was called Scouting... young people having adventures together and learning how to get along in their own little "citizenship" laboratory. Societal ills will increase to a point where adults will realize we need to help young people learn how to replace us. And then there will be a revival. Take your grandkids camping, and do your own version of Scouting. Adventures, skills, and teamwork with grandpa sound like great fun. Enjoy the hikes 😜 And post a picture!

Update 01/07/2025: The Court ruled that the proceeds from the sale, if it moves forward, can only be used as specified in the 1944 donor's deed when the Scouts were given the property: “for uses that support camping activities for Boy Scouts in Central Maine.” Council may not use proceeds to pay down debt or fund program services elsewhere in Maine. “Consequently, it would defy logic and nullify the law favoring charitable trusts to conclude that the (donor of the Camp Bomazeen property) intended to ‘reward’ Pine Tree with full title to Camp Bomazeen upon its absolute failure to follow his directions,” the justices wrote in their decision. "The state attorney general’s office sued the Pine Tree Council to block the sale of the camp, saying its plans to sell it and use the proceeds to help the council get out of debt violated the terms of the the deed to the property in place since it was donated by Dr. George Averill in the 1940s as a place where Scouts could camp." Source (good read): https://www.centralmaine.com/2025/01/07/camp-bomazeen-sale-must-benefit-central-maine-boy-scouts-court-says/

I certainly hope that within a week of when I die people aren't posting on this website about how lousy a scoutmaster I was.

Please respect and honor the passing of a fellow scouter as I believe the OP intended. Please use this topic to post positive and uplifting remembrances of our departed fellow scouter. Also as with President Ford, I expect a large scout presence in President Carter's forthcoming services. I moved "Politics" replies "aside" to a new topic in a more suitable forum.

Thinking about the Aaron item above, I feel I should note that the number of Eagles, though impressive obviously, should not be the focus, or so it seems to me. Eagle "is not the goal of Scouting". Note what this veteran says in his discussion with Aaron. He stresses the "boy leader" focus and the concept of let them do it. "Keep your hands in your pockets" and let them run with things. As far as Eagle is concerned, it comes on its own for those youth that truly care to make it happen. And they are likely the strongest of the many. But, all of us that have likely shaken our heads about "paper Eagles", have seen some of those somehow rise from their misguided concepts of importance and become what we hoped at the start, or what we should hope for anyway. Over my many years trying to sit back, but not doing it well too often, I have seen youth never become Eagle, yet they took control anyway, and got it done. It is not the rank, it is the skill and character that should be the goal. Or that is how I have come to feel.

This was "missing" from the 2025 MB updates. 9. Show experience in camping by doing the following: (a) Camp for at least 20 nights at designated Scouting activities or events. One long-term camping experience of up to six consecutive nights may be applied toward this requirement. Two nights may be counted toward the total for each additional long-term camping trip. Each night must be spent either under the sky, in a tent you have pitched yourself (if a tent is provided and already set up, you do not need to pitch your own), in a hammock that is safely strung outdoors, in a lean-to, or other three-sided shelter with an open front. Nights spent in indoor lock-in events, cabin camping, hotel stays, or other covered accommodations do not count toward the 20 nights.

Tonight's the night... Also my first meeting as SM instead of Advancement Chair or Committee member. Deep breath, and ready for the plunge.

We all turn the page to new chapters of life. Enjoy the time with your grandkids. I do hope you stop by on occassion.

I am in favor of keeping the age limit. 18 is the legal demarcation between "minor" and "adult". Over the years, I have seen "adulthood" being pushed out older and older. At 26, you can still be on your parents' health insurance, even if they are married with their own families. Why, I have no idea. I have relatives who are 30 and still being supported by their parents. I say, "hold the line". We are in the business of helping young people grow up and be self-sufficient. Part of that is getting your act together to meet deadlines...or deal with the consequences.

Nice they clarified. However I would like to see the requirement have some (10?) of the nights not be in shelters provided to the Scout. IMO part of the experience, perhaps a significant part, is the choosing of the tent spot, preparing the site, and setting up one's shelter. Same with using summer camp as nights when all the food is prepared for them in the dining hall. Camping is not just sleeping away from home. This is a mB after all.

Change, often called evolution is part of life and extends o our groups and organizations. Scouting history shows many adjustments and some fairly radical ones early on, and BP was often the one to put them forward. IF, and that is in big caps, we just stay on course with our Scouting compass we will get there. The "New World" was of course NOT. Time will tell, and here with Scouting America, our options are broad, but also shaded with a broken society and legal system. JMO of course. Focus on the Spirit, and the rest will follow.

Scouting is going to survive; Scouting America is going to survive. I don't think Scouting America membership has bottomed out yet; and I think a lot of change is coming. I think quality control of adult leaders and of units in general is eminent; certain it will be a thing no later than the final ink is dry on the settlement. I've only ever heard of adults being threatened to be kicked out, and I've only ever heard of units being threatened to loose their charter; I've recently witnessed my first adult leader kicked out of SA after decades of service, and 2 units have lost their charter in the last month, a 3rd was supposedly told 1 more safety/ypt violation and they are gone. What I see is that Scouting America is going to get smaller, and then we are going to turn a very big corner and experience some real growth.

@swilliams inspired me to start this thread so that scouters can learn about orienteering - the sport. For starters, check out https://orienteeringusa.org/ There’s an interactive map of clubs. Even if the nearest one is some distance from you, you may want to click through anyway to see if they’ve mapped permanent courses nearby. With one of these courses, your scouts can’t blame their navigation errors on your mapping skills!

We recently discovered and resolved an issue that had been preventing new users from signing up on Scouter.com. Thanks to @SCOUTER-Terry for their swift response in fixing this! If you’ve recently invited others to join and they had trouble signing up, they can now create accounts without any issues. Thanks for your patience, and we look forward to welcoming more scouters around the campfire! @MattR @RememberSchiff

@MattR, thanks for all of your valuable contributions. My two grandsons (who I affectionately name Thing 1 and Thing 2) are incredibly entertaining. They suck up time in a very good way. On the other hand, this class of troop parents are some of the most enjoyable, our teens are appreciative, and it’s fun to pass on skills. So I have stepped back to allow others to step up. But the troop gives me great opportunities to get away from the family. As I was backpacking with them last weekend, each time we passed a mile marker, I’d shout “another mile down and I haven’t heard anybody added to the holiday honey-do list!”

G. Michael Hopf

{0.46] "I use to be Scoutmaster myself, I sympathize with you."

Odds are it will work better or reasonably well. Individual YPT situations can be addressed. Also, similar YPT challenges exist in the other approaches too. IMHO, lots of this can be solved by focusing on activities and adventure more than the theoretically perfect way to run a troop. Follow YPT 100%. Beyond that, all the learning happens naturally by focusing on being an active, adventurous troop.

When I came in as SM I felt similar. We had patrols, but the cohesion within them seemed kind of weak. My observation was on a campout, there was a lot of intermingling when there shouldn't be. Like... some scouts from Patrol A were supposed to be cooking or KPing and just generally hanging out with Patrol A but instead were off at Patrol B's site hanging out because that's where their friends were. It caused problems within Patrol A (they should have been there helping but weren't) and at Patrol B (they were not helping there either - just kind of in the way or worse: eating their food). Those guys should have been in a patrol together already. Patrols got formed, then over time scouts just got "put in" Patrols and then it's obvious to me also that the bonds between youth change over time - some getting stronger, some getting weaker. So you may have started in the right patrol for you, but now a year or two later your better friends are not in your current patrol. This is compounded by the fact I think teenagers find it hard to say "Hey, I would rather be with those guys." It's true, but they don't want to feel like they are telling their current patrol "I don't like you" or that they are leaving them hanging. So they just hang on where they are at vs. where they ought to be patrol-wise. My proposed solution was a "Patrol Remix Night". I proposed it at the PLC and the PLC agreed it sounded like it was needed. At the next meeting, the SPL announced "Everyone is released from their patrols. Take the next 30 minutes and form new patrols." That was all the instruction we gave. We did not mandate a min/max size. Ages. Ranks. Nothing. We just let scouts group up how they wanted. We accepted all the patrols that night, there were 7. Then the next week there was some scout-initiated reshuffling and they ended up in 5 patrols. Some were a bit bigger, some smaller, but everyone in every patrol wanted to be in that patrol. It worked well and if you have a feeling the dynamics in your Patrols are off it could help. By doing it that way I feel like we took away the stigma of wanting to leave a patrol and go be with a different group since EVERYONE was told to go re-sort. Two patrols kept prior names, the rest rebranded with new names, flag, call, etc. which I feel like that helped a lot too. The names were the decision of the current group - not something they just walked in on and had to live with. This made it more their patrol not "A" patrol. We do have a "first year patrol" but I'm even considering doing away with that concept in our Troop. Our Troop Guides, ASMs and older scouts can find and help the younger scouts no matter what patrol they are in. But I will say that over the past 5 months or so, our youngest Patrol consistently sets the bar. They are up first. They are done their meals and KP first. They have the best menus. Their campsite looks the best. They are having the most fun too. I use them all the time to challenge the other patrols to do better - and it works lol.

Pick up a copy of the PL Handbook from the 1950s for ideas of Patrol Activities, games, etc... Also a 1940s Fieldbook, it is organized to be basically a manual of patrol activities. These will be a good resource for you if the SPL asks for ideas of "how to..."

I do not think you are too impatient. The forming of patrols is the first step. I would say give the SPL the goal of having the patrols by the end of the first meeting. Anyone not there can join a patrol when they do show up. Suggest some games the scouts could play which will help them get to know each other differently. Like 4-corners games*. Or other type of grouping style games. After the games, SPL hands over the "create your patrol" challenge. Have SPL provide the purpose and minimal boundaries 1. Patrols of 6-8. 2. Patrols will be the teams for games. 3. Patrols will be the group you camp, cook and hike with. Etc... The SPL can use the corners as a way to "gather your patrol". If the the SPL (or the scouts) are having difficulty, start with pairs. Choose a buddy to be with in a patrol. Then the buddys find another pair to join up with. Before they "commit" encourage them to talk about why they want to be together. Common interests? Common goals? Etc... (this goes back to the games played earlier). After a 4-some is created, they can join up with another 4-some, or a pair which did not join another pair yet. No real rules, the idea is to break down the "create a group of 6-8" into a simpler first step. The SPL and scouts will probably surprise you with how quickly they can self-group. *4-corners. Scouts gather in center of room. SPL says the category and points to the different corners with "answers". Then scouts run to the corner of their choice. Ex. SPL says "Category is breakfast" points to each corner and says "bacon, sausage, ham, no-meat" ... "and go". SPL continues with another category...

Though I always differ on "age based" and "traditional patrols" and NSPs, I 100% agree on a few key points. 100% agree ... Adults "screw things up. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.". Let the scouts decide ... with very minimal guidance ... and try to balance patrols (somewhat with many caveats). Even this point... I've often seen adults saying the scout's are deciding, but then I watch and the adults subvert the scout's independent decision making. Scouts want to be with their friends. The best patrols are where the patrol are (or become) friends and want to spend time together. ... Since the scouts plan, camp, cook, eat, sleep, game, and go to activities together, it really helps if the scouts naturally want to spend time together. IMHO, patrols start to fail when scout ditch their patrol to spend time with their friends in another patrol. Perhaps the scout should be in the other patrol then? IMHO, new scout patrols work well when 10+ join at the same time and NSPs are used to rapidly get scouts up to speed. But, there is no reason to keep those scouts in that patrol long term. Let the scout's decide.

I would posit that National would rather we have no camps and would be happy if Scouts do not go outside at all. That is where bad things may happen. My view is that National and the Councils want to focus on the Cubs that are easier to manage and have parents there to oversee. This whole Troops out and about without generating revenue to National and Councils is not the desired process Scouts is about raising money. Youth out doing things is secondary. Legacy things such as camps are not needed in the new world order.

Sounds like a regular meeting night to me You will have a LOT of people telling you how to do the job. Some will tell you how terrible you are at it. Some will say that to you, others will just gossip about it. But ... you're in this role because you stepped up, or were suggested and importantly out of all options - you Chartered Org Rep approved you. I carry an index card with me and as scouts ask for time I scribble it down and try to set expectations "Hey bud, you're 5th in line and I have a few things to do before I can sit down for conferences. It might be after the close of the meeting - can you stay? If not, we'll get it next week for sure." You're new in the role so you will tend to want to do more, probably, to learn and hone your skill. You can definitely delegate. Use those older scouts if it's to get something signed off. If you know the Scout well, it's often better to delegate the SM Conf to an ASM. I like to "hoarde" conferences for Scouts I don't know well or see as much as a tool to get to know them better and have that touch but also - never stand in the way of advancement progress. Better to delegate out a conference than hold up a scout for 3-4 weeks. And when things get REAL NUTS (sounds like you have a larger troop) you can do things outside of meetings, minding YPT. I've done a LOT of conferences at Starbucks on a non-meeting night. I've done a LOT at campouts and in fact have a habit now on Friday night saying "If anyone needs a conference or is really close - see me tomorrow after lunch" or whatever. Remember too, SM Conferences do not have to be last. If they are 1-2 simple requirements away from "being done and needing one" - just do it now if it's convenient. Save the pressure that comes from leaving it last. Many thing it has to be the last thing. It's not a bad idea to encourage that and use the SM conf as a chance to make sure all looks square just before a board of review but you can do a SM conference ANY time for a rank. And I always sign off the requirement the moment I sit down to do it with the Scout. The requirement does not say "pass" a conference - it says "have" a conference. So I just check the book, sign off the conf, then focus on them for the duration. Takes the stress and anticipation of getting that initial out of the equation too and lets them engage better as well.

What percentage of scouts are doing long-term camps, to the exclusion of multiple weekend (or midweek) outings? And how is it hurting them if they don’t earn Camping MB? If they’d rather advance as far as Life, let them age out proudly. The fundamental problem is thinking that it’s a shame to disqualify from the nation’s highest scouting award youth who don’t practice hiking and camping independently with their mates. I sympathize with counselors who feel like they are having to split hairs, but sometimes scouts and their troops need that little nudge to think out of the box.

Richard Nuccio started out as a Cub Scout and became a Boy Scout in 1959 in Connecticut. By age 16, he completed all of his requirements for his Eagle rank, however, before he got his board of review in 1962, his scoutmaster transferred. His troop later folded. "That really kind of upset my mother," Nuccio said. More including mention of Belated Eagle Application at source. Good read with photos. Surprised he found old documents and sash. https://www.fox6now.com/news/78-year-old-wisconsin-eagle-scout Scout Salute,

Is this the Chicago Tribune and College of DuPage case? https://www.peoriamagazine.com/archive/ibi_article/2016/increased-exposure-nonprofit-records-under-foia/ https://law.justia.com/cases/illinois/court-of-appeals-second-appellate-district/2017/2-16-0274.html Albeit a cursory check... but quick reading indicates private non-profit info subject to FOI might be restricted to Government contracts. I'm interested because I've always thought that many non-profits would do well to be more transparent... particularly BSA Councils.

Scouting America website for special needs scouts. Troop Leader Guide Vol 2 also has a chapter on working with scouts that have special needs. IOLS and Woodbadge do not have anything beyond (or anything for that matter) concerning working with scouts with special needs. You will need IOLS to be considered trained, and technically per the registration guide book and Troop Leader Guide Vol 1 you're supposed to have it before being allowed to be the SM. I am not sure how strict your council is but I would check your neighboring councils for IOLS classes. If something goes way wrong and you're not fully trained SA might hang you out to dry.

I don't remember who it was, but I sent an orienteering map I made to someone on this site. Always wanted to try it "for real". We do an orienteering event that I create every March, before the woods get too overgrown. This past March, one group got lost. They happily blamed my map-making skills, haha.

FYI, David Montgomery (#5) is an Eagle Scout. Detroit Lions Running Back and Eagle Scout David Montgomery signed as a Scouting Ambassador

Next year, we will attempt a batch renewal process with ACH option to pull directly from our Troop Bank Account. Eliminating the Registrar/Council Middle Man Person. Or, maybe we won't 😜

Thanks all. CC says, "Our district will not accept money from the council account." Ugh. They tried the batch ACH mentioned by InquisitiveScouter - above - "We tried the batch renewal process and it's not going well at all. BSA system sends a $0.01 penny test using Stripe to our ConnectOne bank account but it takes a long time to receive it and R___ (our treasurer) sees it "go in and then out" and we don't know what to do." So frustrating. I've told her she should join this forum, btw.

They lost me at the "lost touchpoint" point. Every unit is supposed to have a membership coordinator who previously was making those touchpoints, and is supposedly still making those touchpoints; only instead of it happening in one 30 day period the touchpoints are happening throughout the whole year (primarily in the fall though).

Another detailed analysis with recommendations from Scouting Maverick. Even Roger Krone took note. https://scoutingmaverick.com/2024/12/20/bsa-new-member-model-creates-embarrassing-membership-loss/?q

I have tried to NOT think in that vein, and there still are some glimmers, but I am afraid you are closer to right than I would hope. But, we can still work on it locally and who knows, something might happen.

Thanks everyone. In addition to the above advice, I picked up copies of the SPL handbook and the PL handbook and plan on looking through them before handing them over. One thing I have going for me is that I've been a track and cross-country coach for a few years now. (Some of the scouts I've coached previously, and one caused my eyes to wet a little when he told me he was hoping I would be the next SM and it was a wish granted. This kid...) Hopefully some of that experience transfers. It's at least similar in that I can't run for them - only encourage them when it gets hard and celebrate the wins and milestones with them. I'm signing up for Wood Badge, but that doesn't start until April 4th. Now I have to focus on prodding younger son to decide whether he's going to complete the MBs he needs to rank up, or whether he's done. He's my lazy one. Smart as a whip, but so hard to get him to do anything. I think he wants to make Eagle like his older brother, but when push comes to shove he's reluctant to put in the work. Same thing with deciding whether he'll retake the SAT after doing some test prep, or not. I'd be delighted had I gotten his score, but he's not thrilled with the score, and I know he's capable of more. In many ways, dealing with scouts who aren't family is easier. 😂

I have been a leader in troops that have traditional patrols, age based, and the age based also had a new scout patrol. My observation is that hands down age based is better. There is that 8th-9th grade teenage boy thing where the 5th-6th graders drive them insane because the 8th-9th are trying to be so much more mature. There is also the friendship and sibling thing; some scouts regardless of age are friends, some siblings want to be together, some siblings want to be as far away from their brothers as possible. I think the answer might be somewhere in between; something like the SM provides a framework, like "hey we have 36 scouts and I want to see 6 patrols of 6, keep tenting and buddy system age requirements in mind, figure it out scouts+, and then the scouts take it from there. A couple of oddities that I have seen is that I have seen older scouts ask to go back down to the NSP because of younger friends from clubs/sports/relatives; I have seen younger scouts that present much more mature than their age ask to get assigned to an older aged patrol because their personalities were more aligned with the older scouts. The biggest mistakes I have ever seen revolved around either the SM, the SPL, or both making decisions in absence of input from the scouts themselves; that patrol design always leads to some sort of s-show. I have seen parents who's kids get split between multiple patrols that do patrol level stuff lose their minds at having to figure out how to get their scouts to 2 different places at the same time for patrol functions (when a troop starts to function a higher level and the patrols start functioning at the highest level it adds complexity and independence that you should have the foresight to plan for). I think the answer is a mix of how many scouts you have, aligning them to the best possible patrol size, aligning personalities, following the rules, and making sure that everyone's voice is heard. Start with the scouts, make as few adjustments as possible; justify those adjustments when the new troop structure is presented.

In all of my experience in Scouting, every single time adults interfere with the Patrol process, they screw things up. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. (major emphasis). There is a reason why Traditional Patrols, aka Mixed Aged Patrol are still around,and begrudgingly mentioned in BSA literature on occasion, 35 years after national wanted aged based patrols to be the new norm: THEY WORK! (again major emphasis) Aged based patrols have so many problems, especially NSPs. I was part of the pilot program, and it failed miserably in my troop. Imagine my surprise when I discover that aged based patrols were the new way of creating patrols. @MattR said it best:

@swilliams, I'm going to make this quick. Scouting works when younger scouts look up to older scouts. Scouting also happens in the patrol. So don't do patrols by grade. Also, scouts want to be with their friends. These 3 items create a difficult puzzle to solve. Some older scouts are natural at working with younger scouts and many are afraid of doing it. Most friendships are around age. You don't understand the scout dynamics as well as the scouts do. That's where the art of being the SM comes in. Another way of saying that is you flail around trying to coach your older scouts to do what they should be doing. I gave up on selecting patrols, let the scouts figure it out but make sure patrols are balanced. Good luck.

You may be right, but that goes against a major part of the program. That upkeep and so on could be maintained with some arrangement like I noted, and the properties would get far more use as well. But as I have said a lot lately, I am just a peon whose opinions hold little or no sway. Let us be real; most of the camp issues are simply due to poor planning and kicking things down the road. Cooperative use of properties is a win, win concept, or so it seems to me.

You could try posting in the discussion forums at: https://discussions.scouting.org/ If you post the adult's BSA member ID number (no names), there are a few people on the board who can check for duplicate accounts or other issues.

Meh, most subscriptions are automated. Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, etc... you set them up to automatically charge. You have to intervene to stop the subscription. BSA's is currently set up so that you have to take action to renew. At first blush, I think this will only cause units pain. Every outing you go on, you'll have to check to see if Scouts are registered. Actually, many leaders I run across don't bother with that stuff anyway... or medical forms, or swim checks, or adult training, etc... They just take kids camping and don't worry about it. I know a unit that had a Scout camping with them for eight months before they figured out his application was never submitted. Don't see that much different happening with it being automated, especially on renewal.

To refresh everyone's memory, this is 9b (b) On any of these camping experiences, you must do TWO of the following, only with proper preparation and under qualified supervision. (1) Hike up a mountain, gaining at least 1,000 vertical feet. (2) Backpack, snowshoe, or cross-country ski for at least 4 miles. (3) Take a bike trip of at least 15 miles or at least four hours. (4) Take a nonmotorized trip on the water of at least four hours or 5 miles. (5) Plan and carry out an overnight snow camping experience. (6) Rappel down a rappel route of 30 feet or more. A troop leadership group planning / doing normal outings should be able to have these occur. As noted they can occur with the troop, lodge, summer camp, high adventure, etc. Out troop is in the southeast, been a leader for many years, none of the scouts has ever done #5. Now we do regular trips to the mountains so #1 happens, at least 2 "backpacking" outings annually so #2 happens, we do a kayak trip and summer camp does rafting so #4, and many scouts take climbing at camp so #6 Key is these should be part of the program and not require special planning to achieve

We commented on this forum 20 years ago of the shift from a majority of new leaders having a youth scouting experience to now a majority of new leaders without a youth scouting experience. It's a huge thing. Scouters without a youth experience required three times more hands-on experience. The BSA noticed the problem after admitting women as troop leaders. I met and coached several female Scoutmasters. I remember be left speechless after listing to one female SM brag that she introduced more of the Webelos style arts and crafts to her scouts and they love it. I was told by someone in her district that she was loosing scouts right and left. Not having a youth scouting experience doesn't make the adult bad, but it does challenge a 100 year old program that relied on roles models setting the standard for program quality. Its a shift that needs to be understood so the program can be fixed to deal with the situation. I brought up this issue again when the forum got hot and heavy on the BSA admitting girls. Admitting girls will bring in more adults with no scouting experience. It's just the way it is. When the majority of scouters don't have a scouting experience, the culture is going to change. There will certainly be less opportunities for new scouters to observe experienced scouters in action. I remember one forum member proposing that districts round up their experienced scouters so they can work with the new scouters. But, it's like using Troop Guides to role model patrol method in New Scout Patrols, it's not the same. Add that National has not be very welcoming to age experienced scouters. The culture has to change for the new influx of scouters just like National changed the training curriculum in 2000. My personal fear of the new culture's lack-of, and misunderstanding-of, Patrol Method. Training can teach the definitions Mission, Aims, Methods, Scout Oath and Scout Law until scouters are mumbling in their sleep. But, if they don't "trust" how patrol method changes a scouts character, it will get lost in the future program. I enjoyed reading MikeS72's post of his WB experience. It took me back to time when being a mentor for adult leaders was a fun experience. There was a humble pride that your skills could make a difference for making scouting a better place for boys. WB Participants in the old days had to be invited into the course. It wasn't about levels of training, the honor of being invited by the best of the best was acknowledgement of your dedication in the field with the boys. And it usually required many years of experience. Arrogance wasn't a trait of a Wood Badgers back then, in fact you likely didn't know many of the adults who were WoodBadgers. I also got my regalia in the mail, but I never wore it around scouts. In fact, I don't remember ever wearing it except during the WB courses. Barry

God ain't making any more land. When a camp is sold, it is sold and lost to Scouts. And to the future. The lack of forward looking management is always a shame. Such properties can be utilized and pay their own way if imaginative people work at it. Nature, ecological education programs. Public and private school programs. Agricultural education (organic? ) Demonstration gardens. Church , weddings, office "retreats", Isaac Walton utilization, Audubon Societies, even selective harvesting of timber. Publicity , even among Scout groups (limit to BOY Scouts? Why not offer to GIRL ScoutsUSA even?) , LDS has their own program now, can they use a few extra camp grounds ? The State might PAY for the opportunity to plant new trees (experimental American Chestnut?) . The NEED for our ("our") professional Scouters to be so often parochial ("it's got to be SCOUT stuff") is very sad. Want to know WHY Chicago Council wanted to sell all four of their camps? "Follow the money...."

I got really tired of the commissioner rat race when I was expected to be the manpower for the District Activity Operating Committee’s events AND do unit service by way of visitation and support. I had a day job, too..,