New Twist To My Prior Topic - These Assistants Have Now Requested That Our Son Be Removed.

[imachristian13]

Well...here we go even farther down the path. 

In the prior discussion, the ASMs had reported our son's behavior "problems" to potential new troops. Now, we come to find that they went up the chain even farther, asking for him to be removed altogether. The first step, as we understand it, is the Troop Committee meeting that they were, at first, having without us tomorrow. If our troop removes him, then these two have already submitted a tentative request to the next level up (I believe this is the District Round-table?).  

We know that dealing with our son is not easy. We, also, know that we have been trying to stand side-by-side with troop leadership from the minute we arrived. We have done everything that they have asked of us and have done our level best to provide strong support - even if they disagreed with us.

Our options are limited - as we understand them.

• Barring any surprises, I'm sure we are leaving the current troop (whether dismissed or not). 
• We cannot transfer to the other troops in the area without at least having to deal with the same ASMs in their outside-the-troop roles (Commissioner, Training Adviser, etc.).
• We have no idea what MIGHT happen if they are successful in removing him completely from the entire thing.

 

Any additional suggestions or advice?  

[T2Eagle]

First, Troop Committees can't really officially remove you from the Troop.  Troops are actually dictatorships not democracies.  Each Troop is sponsored, or Chartered, by a Chartering Organization (CO). The CO has an Institutional Head (IH), for instance a pastor, and then there is a Chartered Organization Rep (COR) who actually is is charge of everything scouts for the CO, sometimes the IH and COR are the same, sometimes not.  Only the COR and/or the IH can actually remove a scout from a Troop, that is go to the Council and say "scout A can no longer be a member of our troop."  The Troop Committee Chair (CC) reports to and serves at the pleasure of the COR, and everyone else reports to and serves at the pleasure of the CC.  

 

Who is your Chartering Organization?  You should find out who in the Organization is in charge over all and who is the COR and go talk to them.

 

As to dealing with the ASMs after you leave the troop, that's probably not a real issue.  I am likely the only person in my troop who could tell you who the Unit Commissioner and Training Coordinator are, and you could go your whole scouting career without knowing or caring about them --- most troops do.

 

Finally, the next level above the Troop and its COR is the professionals at Council, the District isn't really a separate entity.  You say you have already been in touch with your DE, keep working with him to find a good scouting home for your son.  His boss, the Council Exec is the only person who can actually have your son dismissed from scouts.  Stay on the good side of your DE and you're probably on the good side of the Exec.

 

Good luck, as always it is the adult sturm und drang which causes the biggest problems in scouting.

[andysmom]

You could register him as a lone scout so won't have to have an affiliation with any troop?

[Stosh]

You could register him as a lone scout so won't have to have an affiliation with any troop?

 

Why should this scout be on the outside looking in.  I'm sure the DE has access to other Scouters that would be willing to take on the challenge of just one boy.  I've never turned a scout away for any reason.  I have tolerated a ton of bad behavior over the years, but for the most part if the adult scouter cares, they can overcome much of the problems and actually help these boys.

 

I have a scout that lives 45 miles from where we meet.  I have another that lives 20 miles away.  They come because we don't turn anyone away.  Boys realize this rather quickly and will do their best to meet one half way and a lot of poor choices are quickly replaced with more mature ones.

 

Quit fretting about two idiots in the former troop and start looking for some real scout leaders that at least try to live the Oath and Law.

[WAKWIB]

Well, now you at least know where you stand with the troop and can make a clean break of it. Don't place too much emphasis on the couple's district roles. They are not that influential in how troops are run, and I think, if they try to make an issue of your son throughout the district they will only end up looking foolish. 

[qwazse]

Like I said in the previous post, your scoutmaster should request that these people be removed from the commissioners corps for defaming your troop to other scouters. A phone call to the scout executive should do it.

 

When I was being bullied in grade school, Mama put up with my whining and tears, then gave me one piece of advise: "Get big."

[Gone]

Go to council. Make a stink. Go to national. Make a stink. Get the special interest groups on your side and shine a bright light on the trouble makers. Let the media know. Scream discrimination.

 

This approach has worked for other groups...get it to work for you.

[imachristian13]

Thanks everyone! Sincerely. 
Our most pressing need is to determine what this troop is really all about. I say this because our Son is "stuck" on why he must leave the troop. I mean this in an Asperger's way. We need to have all of these things cleaned up before we leave - or even if somehow we end up staying and turning this troop on its ear, we need him to be ready to move forward. Plus, we feel strongly that these folks need to at least recognize their errors (not that they have to change - they likely won't I imagine).  

It's amazing - we were reading back through all of the literature that we have shared with the troop - including the Autism and Scouting resources that are just awesome. It's not that hard to follow the guidelines if you want to do so!

 

Really glad to understand that we have all of the scenarios in our favor as far as who gets to make these decisions.  Really didn't understand that process very well.  

 

Don't worry - we'll get loud if we need to. Just making sure we are loud with ammunition to back up the volume.

 

 
 

[DuctTape]

I disagree with your "most pressing need". You will not get your desired result, not even close. My advice would be to go somewhere else and report your experience to the Council.

[moosetracker]

The round table doesn't get involved in this at all..  First the Charter Org, then the DE (who you have been working with so I am guessing knows the situation), then the Council Executive..

 

So last thread the Scoutmaster was on your side, or at least could work with your son as well as the other ASM's..  What happen to that support?..  These two ASM's could poison the well for people who don't know you, but in this troop if the others are successful working with your son, I don't understand how they could effect that.. The other SM's & ASM's should tell them it is their problem they don't have the ability to work with special needs kids, and the special needs scouts should not suffer and be kicked out of scouting due to their inadequacy's..  -or- are the SM & other ASMs really having issues with your son also?

[qwazse]

@@DuctTape, I'd agree with you if the avarice came from more than just one boy and his family.

 

But, this family (probably one parent) is trying to dictate the troop's values (probably to the convenience of their son). That is an unhealthy scenario.

 

In my unit (the crew, not the troop) I am the quintessential pain-in-the-butt leader. I'll take all kinds of advice from adults, and nod my head politely, then do whatever is likely to my judgement represent the decision of who is doing the most work for my youth.

 

In my SM's unit (the troop) I allow him to be the quintessential pain-in-the-butt leader. He can take my advise or leave it. If the latter, I suck it up and do what he thinks is best assisting him as best I can.

 

These folks are trying to blurr those lines. They may be badmouthing a boy. But in doing so, they are badmouthing an SM who chose to keep this young man in his troop.

 

If for no other reason than to know that his chain is being yanked, the SM needs to be confronted with the facts and asked to stand up for his boys.

[DuctTape]

Q, I do not disagree with you. I was operating under the premise a discussion with the SM has already occurred and thus knows full well what is going on. He either is supporting it, or doing nothing to stop it.Perhaps I am wrong.

[BDPT00]

Staying and 'turning the troop on its ear' doesn't sound like a wise idea.  What is it you want?  Do you want to destroy the troop, or do you want your son to have a good Scouting experience?  I don't think you can do both.  Is your mission to help your son, or to punish a few guys who don't get it?  Pick one.

[CalicoPenn]

Make two calls.  The first to the head of the chartering organization - before tonights meeting - tell that person what is going on with those ASM's and that the Troop Committee is meeting tonight to potentially kick your son out of scouts - make sure to use these words:  "If the Troop kicks my son out, I will be left with no choice but to contact a lawyer about a discrimination lawsuit against the Troop and their Chartering Organization for discriminating against my son". 

 

The second to the Scout Executive where you will again explain what these two miscreant ASM's are up to and that you have told the chartering head that should the Troop kick your son out, you will be filing a very public lawsuit against the CO and the Troop and will be including the Council for allowing these two ASM's to damage your son's reputation and allowing the unit to discriminate against your son due to his disability.

 

I know you have spoken of your Christian beliefs and your turn the other cheek, and try to get along attitude which is very commendable - but if defending your son and your family's reputation against these two people is not the time to wield the sword, then when is?

 

It's really time to stop being nice and time to start being fierce.

[andysmom]

Why should this scout be on the outside looking in.  I'm sure the DE has access to other Scouters that would be willing to take on the challenge of just one boy.  I've never turned a scout away for any reason.  I have tolerated a ton of bad behavior over the years, but for the most part if the adult scouter cares, they can overcome much of the problems and actually help these boys.

 

I have a scout that lives 45 miles from where we meet.  I have another that lives 20 miles away.  They come because we don't turn anyone away.  Boys realize this rather quickly and will do their best to meet one half way and a lot of poor choices are quickly replaced with more mature ones.

 

Quit fretting about two idiots in the former troop and start looking for some real scout leaders that at least try to live the Oath and Law.

 

Oh, I absolutely agree.  He should not HAVE to be excluded from a traditional troop and IMO troop shouldn't ever turn an interested scout away.

I apparently misunderstood the OP, I read the post that the scout was being asked to leave the troop and the family didn't want to peruse joining other troops because of having to deal with the unscout like ASMs in other capacities.  I was simply stating an option that would keep the boy in scouting as opposed to dropping out of the program all together.  I hate to see a boy drop out of scouting.

Finding another troop and reporting the ASM who are causing the problems to the DE would be my first choice of action.