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No... just Google, but the response does use an AI assist. None of that was legal advice, btw. That is an outline of what civil law suits could be brought and how they would be looked at. Nothing about that tells a client what to do. The only advice I gave to @FireStone was "I urge you to let the parents in your unit know (tactfully and discreetly) if there is a transgender child in the Troop, and allow them to decide the best course of action for their own child." Which is what any reasonable person should do. And you do not need a law degree to be a reasonable person.

You went on a Chat GPT binge of legal advice and opinions.

Clearly stated "check with legal counsel in your state."

Is the expectation that a birth certificate will be attached with every application? What about states that allow gender to be updated on a birth certificate, will we only accept the first print?

Political winds change and lawsuits could come from the other direction in just a few years. Let's avoid a bunch of non lawyers on this forum from giving legal advice.

I just re-read this and saw the blurb above, too... National has issued no clarification on registration policy. No mention of it here: https://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/press-releases/scouting-america-statement-concerning-department-of-war-announcement/ Now, would someone please explain what this gobbledygook means? "Memorializing our existing practices for membership registration and safeguarding youth"(This from the email we all got on 27 Feb.) Here is the current registration policy, "It is the philosophy of Scouting to welcome all eligible youth, regardless of gender, race, ethnic background, sexual orientation, or gender identification, who are willing to accept Scouting’s values and meet any other requirements of membership." https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/2025-Rules_Regulations_NEB-Approved-10.28.2025.pdf -------------------------- However, it seems Hegseth came away from the agreement with National with a different perception of what they had agreed upon... 3. “Scouting America will modify its policy to make clear that membership will be based solely on biological sex at birth and not gender identity. That means that the application, any application, will have only two sex designations, male and female. The application must match the applicant’s birth certificate. The secretary noted, “Scouting will also make clear that biological boys and girls will not be allowed to occupy or share intimate spaces together. Toilets, showers, tents, anywhere like that.” https://dailycitizen.focusonthefamily.com/can-scouting-america-be-trusted/ Watch the video link, particularly at timestamp 3:47. Over the weekend, the article says, Krone took a different tack... If Scouting America does not make those policy modifications, look for more pressure "...in the next six months." Here's an AP article also: https://apnews.com/article/scouting-america-pentagon-military-boy-scouts-14a5fc1521fcd1e51103638f6f504214

Google is your friend... and so is your legal counsel. Key in on "negligence and failure to supervise" in the results below. Exposure could be ruled as abuse in many states. YMMV. Again, check with legal counsel in your state. As it would most likely be a civil case, there'd be a jury. So, it would ultimately be up to them. I underlined a pertinent point in there... I wholeheartedly believe a jury would see it as unreasonable on your part that you did not inform the minor's parents about the situation before any "damage" was done. I urge you to let the parents in your unit know (tactfully and discreetly) if there is a transgender child in the Troop, and allow them to decide the best course of action for their own child. ----------------------------------------------------------- Who Can Be Held Liable in These Cases? If a child was abused by another child, most state laws allow a civil claim against the people or organizations that had a duty to protect them. These third-party claims focus on negligence and failure to supervise. Potential defendants may include: Parents or legal guardians of the offending child If the parents knew their child posed a risk and failed to intervene, they may be held liable for failing to properly supervise or control their child’s behavior. Schools or teachers If the abuse happened at school or during school-related activities, the district may be liable for failing to supervise students, ignoring red flags, or allowing risky situations to occur. Daycare providers or babysitters These individuals and facilities have a legal duty to monitor children in their care. Allowing unsupervised contact, ignoring warning signs, or failing to act on complaints can result in civil liability. Churches, camps, or youth programs Any organization that oversees group activities for children must ensure that their staff follow clear guidelines for supervision and safety. Failing to separate children with behavioral issues or allowing unsafe environments may be grounds for a lawsuit. Therapists or counselors In rare cases, a professional who knew about harmful behaviors but did not report or address them may also face liability. What Must Be Proven in a Civil Claim? To succeed in a civil case involving peer-to-peer abuse, the legal team must show that the defendant acted negligently. This means proving that they failed to act in a way that a reasonable person or organization would have under similar circumstances. Examples of negligence may include: Leaving children unsupervised in restrooms, locker rooms, or private areas Ignoring reports or behavioral red flags about a child’s aggressive or sexual conduct Failing to separate children after an initial incident Not following school or program safety policies Failing to notify parents or law enforcement after a report Each case depends on the specific facts, including the age of the children involved, the setting, and whether adults had an opportunity to intervene. How Are These Cases Handled in Court? Courts treat these cases with care and seriousness. The goal is to protect the survivor while examining whether any adult or institution failed in their duty to provide a safe environment. Most civil cases involving minors are handled confidentially. Protective orders may be issued to keep the names of the children private. If the case moves forward, the court may appoint a guardian ad litem to represent the survivor’s best interests. Damages in these cases can include: Medical and mental health treatment Emotional pain and suffering Educational support or school changes Long-term therapy or trauma recovery services Punitive damages in cases of severe negligence Can These Cases Be Resolved Without a Trial? Yes. Many civil cases involving child abuse settle out of court. This can provide families with a resolution that includes financial support, institutional changes, or formal apologies without requiring a full trial. Attorneys works with families to decide the best course of action. Some prefer to pursue a public case to raise awareness, while others seek a private resolution focused on healing. Taking Action After Peer-to-Peer Abuse If your child has been harmed by another child, it is completely normal to feel overwhelmed and unsure about what steps to take next. These situations are emotionally complex and often come with a mix of shock, confusion, anger, and grief. Parents may question how this could happen, whether anyone noticed warning signs, and what can be done to protect their child moving forward. In many cases, families also struggle with silence. Schools, camps, or organizations may downplay the incident or attempt to resolve the matter quietly. Meanwhile, your child may be dealing with trauma, fear, or shame that makes it difficult for them to talk about what happened. You may feel alone in advocating for their safety and healing.

Why would I have a lawsuit on my hands? I'm just doing what my Council is doing, we're continuing to sign up kids and not checking birth certificates.

So what are they calling a new unit: 6 youths, 2 new youths, 4 for another unit, all 6 from a failed unit, with 4 never coming back. The real metric should be 10 new scouts gain. for every 12 scouts who did not recharter. You will need to bring in 22 new. Real numbers that affect membership gains

Well done. Barry

Here is my motive: I have my own opinions, but I would never foist them on the rest of the Troop. In January 2017, when BSA said they would allow transgender boys in the program, we presented the issue to the Chartered Organization (CO). The CO (in their regular meeting with the Institution Head (IH)) said they would fully support allowing transgender boys in Troop, but they left the decision up to the parents and the leaders who are doing the job. We then had an "all hands" meeting with parents. About 35 attended, out of 70ish. We presented the choice to them, and the decision was unanimous... we would not accept transgender boys into the Troop, as this did not align with the way they wanted their boys raised and educated. (In back room discussions, several families let me know that if the group chose to accept them, they would leave Scouting.) In October 2017, when the opportunity arose to create a separate girls Troop (starting 01 February 2019), we presented our CO with the option. The CO (in their regular meeting with the IH) said they would fully support a girls Troop. We then had another "all hands" meeting with parents. About 35 attended, out of 70ish (basically the same folks). We presented the choice to them of 1. Remain a boy only Troop 2. Start a girls Troop and share "committees" and gear for support 3. Keep boys and girls programs and support separate (if someone else started a girls Troop there) They chose #1. Last fall/winter, after BSA ended the "pilot" mixed Troop, and gave the option for Troops to be combined, we, once again, informed our CO of the development. Once again, the CO gave support, but deferred to the Troop adults actually doing the work, and parents whose responsibility it it to safeguard their child's upbringing. Once again, we met with parents. And, once again, they chose to remain a boy only Troop. Our parents run the spectrum from left to right. When the decisions actually "hit home", and would affect their won sons, it was amazing that, unanimously, they chose to go the way they did. Their was no dissent, and no one felt offended nor decided to leave the Troop because of these decisions. I stick to the program, and let parents make well-informed choices for their Scouts. They all appreciate the transparency, and the acknowledgement that others may believe differently. Although it has not happened, our collective approach, if a transgender boy applied to our unit, would be to welcome them to Scouting, but steer them to another Troop more suited to their situation. (And we have good rapport with that other Troop.) Our Scout Executive was perfectly fine with this approach.

I can't tell the motive, but Inquisitivescout points out rightly the risk of being all things to all scouts in this culture. Especially in a program where camping is the arena. What I find fascinating is that both sides of the cultural spectrum believe theirs is the best approach for the growth and maturity of youth going into adulthood. Barry

Be very careful. If, Janey (who is really Jimmy) is in a tent with Jenny, and Jenny's parents do not know that Janey is Jimmy, then if Jimmy's jimmy gets seen by Jenny, then you may have a law suit on your hands. And when they subpoena your computer, this thread may be used against you for damages. You'd best inform all parents involved, and allow them to determine what is best for their youngsters.

What if the youth wants to be in the other gender program? Barry

Why would they? Parents have to fill out the form, if they're coming to a girls troop and checking the female box, that's good enough for me.

What are you doing if the parents disagree with their child? Barry

I'm not checking birth certificates and trans youth are welcome in my troop, you think that's abuse. We're miles apart ideologically. I'm good with where I'm at on this, alongside the many councils that have officially expressed the same stance. If you think this is abuse, you probably should report it.

Standing up for all youth is not giving in to cultural (political) ideals where adults allow, condone, or dictate the sociological development of prepubescent youth, which are counter to normal physical and biological instincts. It is a form of child abuse, so how can a council prevent abuse if it supports it? Barry

It's standing up for our members. Not just trans youth but girls, too. Don't forget that Hegseth wants girls out and the name to change back to Boy Scouts. It's the stance National should have taken. Instead they caved.

Wonder if there will be secret files and private exclusion lists. What's old is suddenly new again

It's just prideful political temper tantrums. And, more litigation for the youth organizations as young maturing adults realize they were steered toward accepting being a trans person. Doctors and hospitals are already being sued, but eventually they will go after organizations that encourage the youths to continue a lifestyle that led them away from their biological origin. Schools are already in the crosshairs. This is the child abuse of our present culture. And, ironically, women's equality. Barry

I'm happy to see so many Councils putting out statements these last few days basically saying that they will not check birth certificates and that all youth are still welcome in Scouting. Once again, local has to do what National doesn't. Can't say I'm all that surprised, really. But it's nice to see so many Councils supporting our youth members, ALL members.

I wish. My troop folded in December after years of begging council for help. They said they needed to start new units instead of helping existing one. They didn't like the fact that I told them that National predicted membership and units would decline for a few years after the lawsuit before stabilizing, and that it is easier to keep a stable unit going than start a new on. And at my new troop's meeting tonite, we had visitors from the only other existing troop in town. They are joining us on a camp out this weekend. Oh we know what is causing the problem, we are not recruiting. And Council is not helping us in this matter. One CST's stats. Look like those councils with metro areas are doing well. Rural areas not so much.

Chicken or Egg? When adults lead the troop, the Scouts would rather be on their phones. If the parents are forcing them to be there, then are the parents also expecting the adult volunteers to baby sit? Its both counter-intuitive and a self reinforcing negative feedback loop. Its especially bad when the SM has a weak ego, sometimes feeling like the parents are out to get him/her. Weak ego usually leads to control issues. Though the weak ego can be the driving factor. The spouse in a key position or supporting position as it could well be co-dependency. Narcissist types also tend to seek each other out for mutual benefit/protection so watch-out if your SM, CC, & CoR are long-time scouters in a adult-led unit with anti-parent sentiments. And... “Boards of Review Must Be Granted When Requirements Are Met” though my interpretation is scheduled to occur promptly. The overarching issue to not intentionally delay advancement.

Heard second hand that a member of the national executive committee was at a council leadership summit and told people that the membership for scouts from military families was something they had already been working on and that there were large donors lined up to cover the costs. If accurate this should actually help with overall membership numbers, as I am sure there are a lot of kids out there who would like to join but the program is out of reach on a military salary.