All Activity

The core issue is trying to do activities with kids ranging in age, size, and maturity from 5 year old kindergartners to 10 or 11 year old fourth and fifth graders. Scouting really forces all these ages together at pack meetings and other events and really doesn't work too hard at differentiating them as much as you would typically see in other environments like school, sports, etc. A too broad age range is also sometimes an issue at troop levels. Scouting asks volunteer adults to supervise situations that people who supervise children professionally typically try to avoid. Lions were not a helpful addition to this mix but National did it anyway for membership and marketing reasons. The lawsuit shouldn't be a surprise and I'm sure there have been plenty others.

It's all yours! It's a common phrase it my region used to question whether a benefit is worth the effort. In the case of Scouting, I think we can all agree the juice is really sweet, but our hands occasionally get sore from squeezing.

Exactly. I think the cooler heads at National understand their entire program would die if they lost the support of adult volunteers en masse, if they threw one adult involved in a situation to the wolves, and then lost control of the narrative surrounding the incident. Bad PR = loss of adult volunteers = loss of program = loss of Scouts = loss of Boy Scouts of America doing business as Scouting America = loss of their paycheck This is already happening in other areas, forcing Scouting America into survival mode (make no mistake, that is where we are right now). And I, too, often question whether "...the juice is really worth the squeeze." (Love that phrase, and I'm gonna use it, and not even give you credit )

To that SE, I would say "be careful what you wish for," because there are many leaders out there (myself included), who are doing our best but often wonder if the juice is really worth the squeeze. Per the article: The soft, sphere-shaped projectile was not the problem here. This seems more like a case of a 3rd or 4th grader just being a huge a-hole. @skeptic, you've touched a nerve here because this is my biggest fear as a volunteer. As hard as we try to keep things safe and fun, there are constantly factors beyond our control working against us. And yes, we can eliminate activities perceived to be more dangerous. And yes, we can have more leaders present. But then what are we really left with?

Great question! Even with all the "threats" I've heard and hand-wringing I've seen, I have yet to confirm one case where BSA did not step up and cover the volunteers leaders in their settlements... Anyone out there have an anecdote?

Releases are not as good as you may think .there is a expecting of due care but gross negligence is not covered. Some outdoor activities have gone as far getting state law level coverage in my area horse back riding is at that level. They could not get insurance otherwise.

The Scoutmaster is the master of the ship; he is responsible for the actions of his crew, whether he is there or not. Scouting rules can never be less than the state requirement,s but they are free to have higher requirements It's the way we have alway done ;is not a defense. it normally a sign of lazines with the rules. The cost of winning a defense may be thousands of dollars if BA decides not to defend you. Plus any criminal charges.

Anyone can sue, what are outcomes? Show a result where a leader ended up paying when they followed BSA rules and regulations....

From the Youth Application: "Parent Agreement. I have read the Scout Oath and Scout Law, and I want my child to join Scouting. I will assist them in abiding by the policies of Scouting America and the chartered organization. I will: • Serve as an adult partner while my child is a Lion or Tiger." The parent has some supervisory responsibility in this, at least for their own child. ----------------------- Also there: "Mandatory Reporting All persons involved in Scouting must immediately report to local authorities any good-faith suspicion or belief that any child is or has been physically or sexually abused; physically or emotionally neglected; exposed to any form of violence or threat; or exposed to any form of sexual exploitation including the possession, manufacture, or distribution of child pornography, online solicitation, enticement, or showing of obscene material. No person may abdicate this reporting responsibility to any other person." This verbatim message is also purveyed through SYT and the Guide to Safe Scouting. All registered adults present are mandatory reporters... this is one area I think paid professionals, COR's and volunteers mutually fail at... discussing what this means and what their responsibilities are. The basic mentality I see is that many people think SYT applies only to sexual assault. ------------------------------------- From the Annual Health and Medical Record (which parents must sign): NOTE: Due to the nature of programs and activities, the Boy Scouts of America and local councils cannot continually monitor compliance of program participants or any limitations imposed upon them by parents or medical providers. ----------------- And there are many questions here... -- What is an "indoor snowball fight"? See G2SS Prohibited Activities #15. Activities where participants shoot or throw objects at each other, such as rock-throwing, paintball, laser or archery tag, sock fights, or dodgeball https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss07/#b -- Was this "violence" or was is a rough-and-tumble game where a large kid fell on a small one and hurt him? This may have been perceived initially as an injury due to the activity, rather than "violence." -- Were the Scout leaders actually negligent? I can see something like this getting out of control and an injury happening really fast. They will have to explain the "indoor snowball fight" vs Prohibited Activities list, though... that is where a claim of negligence would have grounds -- OK, the "Scoutmaster" (probably means Cubmaster or Den Leader, but OK) was outside... but were there two other registered adults present? If yes, kind of a moot argument there. (That he was rumored vaping is moot... he/she could have been in the bathroom for all we know.) "All Scouting functions, meetings, and activities should be conducted on a smoke-free basis, with smoking areas located away from all participants." Was he vaping in an area away from participants?? If so, and any two other registered leaders were present, this argument falls away, too... --------------- I relayed in a post sometime back... our SE told volunteers (at a type of fireside chat) that National's patience with volunteers violating policies was wearing thin, and there are elements within the organization who advocate not defending volunteers who do, or offering settlements based on their non-compliance with policies. This one will be interesting. Like @skeptic says, "Follow the rules people" And like @Eagle1993 advises "Just get excess liability insurance and follow BSA policy and you will be fine." , which would be great legal advice, too, if he were lawyer ------------------- From the G2SS (key overall points underlined) GENERAL INFORMATION When it comes to the safety guide, here are some important points for you to remember: Know the Guide—All participants in official Scouting activities should become familiar with the document and applicable Scouting America program literature or manuals. The guide is a resource as well as a summary of the materials provided by Scouting America. Know the Law—Be aware that state or local government regulations supersede Scouting America practices, policies, and guidelines. Know the Risks—The Guide to Safe Scouting does not cover every possible activity, but it provides guidance on how to evaluate risks and proceed safely if explicit requirements do not exist. Check out the Activity Planning and Risk Assessment section. Know the Restrictions—The document includes a list of restricted or prohibited activities. Know the Limits—The document contains age-appropriate guidelines for activities. Find out which and when certain activities are appropriate for particular age groups. Know the Program—The guide points to other Scouting America program documents such as Safe Swim Defense, the National Shooting Sports Manual, and additional program materials.

https://www.fox10tv.com/2026/03/04/family-claims-5-year-old-was-beaten-cub-scout-meeting-while-pack-leader-was-outside-vaping/ After reviewing this and a number of other related pieces from the ether, I cannot say anynthing else but: FOLLOW THE RULES AND BE ADULTS. I am sure the whole story will never be shared, but the basics indicate a lack of paying attention, both by the leaders and the parent. Does it equate to a huge settlement? In our society, it likely will. Should it? In my view, no; but that is not the legal world in which we here exist. Balance and fairness, not "wind all you can". (hmmmm).

SECTION 2. Clause 1. The Judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;—to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;—to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction; to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;—to Controversies between two or more States; between a State and Citizens of another State; between Citizens of different States,—between Citizens of the same State claiming Land under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects. So, yes.... applies nation-wide. A SCOTUS ruling is the "law of the land". As examples, Brown v. Board of Education, and Miranda v. Arizona. Enjoy

I would expect it would apply to any similar law nationwide. The specific lawsuit is California, but now anyone can sue a state with similar laws and likely win at District, probably fairly quickly.

Is that nation-wide? The decision summary reads like it's only focused on California.

SCOTUS just ruled on this... Mirabella v Bonta https://www.aalrr.com/newsroom-alerts-4207 That is now prohibited in government, as it violates parents' rights.

Just a point of emphasis: The schools are keeping the trans identity a secret, not teachers. Teachers are often legally restricted from disclosing gender identity or sexual orientation when a student confides in them but is withholding that information from their own parents. It varies by state but this is common practice. Board of Ed, lawyers, admins, they're the ones making the decision not to disclose. Some teachers want to talk to the parents about it but they are not allowed to.

What is your precise objection/point?

I never understood schools or anyone hiding something this significant from parents. If the parents are abusive, then department of family services, police, courts can play their role. It isn't up to the school to decide this. I enjoyed talking with parents and sometimes surprising them with what I saw from their kid (a quiet kid became an active leader, a troubled youth giving good advice to a younger scout, etc). It was one of the joys of the job to surprise parents by sharing what was going on, sometimes some tough conversations, .... I can't imagine hiding something from them.

About 1.2 -3% of youth are trans, so let's go with 1.2% and assume the rate is half of that in BSA ... So 650,000 youth * 0.6% = 3,900 trans youth. I would up guess many trans avoid scouts. Gay youth are 7-9%, assuming that number holds you probably have 50,000 gay youth in BSA.

It was here, as I recall it also. If I remember correctly, it showed a move toward mergers eventually bringing us to around 80 councils.

There used to be a chart showing number of scouts by sponsoring organizations. Anyone seen that recently?

Does anyone have any idea how many trans and gay youth we are even talking about?

I heard there are a large number of councils under conditional charters for 2026. If they don't meet certain benchmarks ) I assume membership growth and raising $$ they can subject to be merged. Free membership for military scouts is an interesting idea. My friends troop is made up of Colonels and Lt Cols who certainly can afford the registration. Junior soldiers most likely do not have children who are of scouting age.

I can think of no faster way to decommission a garrison than to deny programs that servicemen and women want for their kids. That said, even among military families, demand for scouting programs is limited. The West Point camporee, should it turn its attention to Trail Life youth, could be a game changer for that organization. On the other hand, the school will have less access to youth. BSA faces a sunken cost dilemma with Summit. The DoD has a similar issue. Sec Def would have to pose a different mechanism to spend a million and have access to tens of thousands of high school students for a week. I’m pretty sure congress would be skeptical of any other scheme for that price. Also, SBR has some nice terrain for drone training. There’s a deal to be made here.

This theme has appeared often over my time here on the forum, and it almost alway comes back to reality of lives and responsibilities outside of the program. Early in my long tenure, now fiftyish, I was visiting my parents and mentioned my frustrations to my father, the man that in my youngest years worked three jobs, one full time with a long drive to and from. Anyway, he looked at me and laughed. He said something to the effect of, "nothing new". Then he asked if I thought that all my scout brothers' parents were involved as he was. He was on the committee in a number of jobs, as actually was my mother for the time. She had been a denmother for my brother. He told me a couple of stories that matched mine like a Polaroid almost. Then he told me that if it was important to someone, they somehow would work at it and often find the time. But also he told me that life could wear you down, and that Scouting involvement also could, and likely would.

It is. I remember seeing it. 2/3s of the councils gone if memory serves.