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Friday evening... none of our members have been renewed through the Registrar. Perhaps they'll update on the midnight data sync... a Scouter can dream, can't he?

National announced a grace period; the problem is that it looks like people stop getting emails at renewal date + 7 days. That grace period is massive, 60 days. I am just waiting for the new YPT and training requirements to drop if that gold leaf certification is for real; that's going to blow up 50% of the leaders in my opinion (because they are lazy and can't be bothered to do free training online in my experience).

I am still re-reading front to back. National has removed some of the gray area that bad leaders have lingered in for years. I think we all need to make sure we understand the nuance difference. Statements on MBC and SM authority seem much clearer and designed to reign in ego-mad SM's.

I have been a leader in troops that have traditional patrols, age based, and the age based also had a new scout patrol. My observation is that hands down age based is better. There is that 8th-9th grade teenage boy thing where the 5th-6th graders drive them insane because the 8th-9th are trying to be so much more mature. There is also the friendship and sibling thing; some scouts regardless of age are friends, some siblings want to be together, some siblings want to be as far away from their brothers as possible. I think the answer might be somewhere in between; something like the SM provides a framework, like "hey we have 36 scouts and I want to see 6 patrols of 6, keep tenting and buddy system age requirements in mind, figure it out scouts+, and then the scouts take it from there. A couple of oddities that I have seen is that I have seen older scouts ask to go back down to the NSP because of younger friends from clubs/sports/relatives; I have seen younger scouts that present much more mature than their age ask to get assigned to an older aged patrol because their personalities were more aligned with the older scouts. The biggest mistakes I have ever seen revolved around either the SM, the SPL, or both making decisions in absence of input from the scouts themselves; that patrol design always leads to some sort of s-show. I have seen parents who's kids get split between multiple patrols that do patrol level stuff lose their minds at having to figure out how to get their scouts to 2 different places at the same time for patrol functions (when a troop starts to function a higher level and the patrols start functioning at the highest level it adds complexity and independence that you should have the foresight to plan for). I think the answer is a mix of how many scouts you have, aligning them to the best possible patrol size, aligning personalities, following the rules, and making sure that everyone's voice is heard. Start with the scouts, make as few adjustments as possible; justify those adjustments when the new troop structure is presented.

I have recently noted a number of instances where pundits on line and in articles have began making "Boy Scout" comments in a sarcastic manner to indicate "goody goody", or being a good person. Does that mean we are back?

I do not think you are too impatient. The forming of patrols is the first step. I would say give the SPL the goal of having the patrols by the end of the first meeting. Anyone not there can join a patrol when they do show up. Suggest some games the scouts could play which will help them get to know each other differently. Like 4-corners games*. Or other type of grouping style games. After the games, SPL hands over the "create your patrol" challenge. Have SPL provide the purpose and minimal boundaries 1. Patrols of 6-8. 2. Patrols will be the teams for games. 3. Patrols will be the group you camp, cook and hike with. Etc... The SPL can use the corners as a way to "gather your patrol". If the the SPL (or the scouts) are having difficulty, start with pairs. Choose a buddy to be with in a patrol. Then the buddys find another pair to join up with. Before they "commit" encourage them to talk about why they want to be together. Common interests? Common goals? Etc... (this goes back to the games played earlier). After a 4-some is created, they can join up with another 4-some, or a pair which did not join another pair yet. No real rules, the idea is to break down the "create a group of 6-8" into a simpler first step. The SPL and scouts will probably surprise you with how quickly they can self-group. *4-corners. Scouts gather in center of room. SPL says the category and points to the different corners with "answers". Then scouts run to the corner of their choice. Ex. SPL says "Category is breakfast" points to each corner and says "bacon, sausage, ham, no-meat" ... "and go". SPL continues with another category...

I truly understand that they need to make the decisions. (The very first thing I've done is to arrange a day of training for the scouts who will have leadership roles so that they understand what their responsibilities are and will have the information needed to be independent of the adults.) But the incoming SPL has indicated that he needs help. This is helpful. How do they figure it out, I guess is my question at this point. I can, and will, let the SPL know the scouts need to self-select (for lack of a better term), but how does he begin? The mechanics of it? Ask them to form up during the next Troop meeting? Email them? A lot do group-chat, but not all have phones. Do they figure it out over the course of a few weeks as they naturally form groups? Am I being too impatient in wanting to sort out the Patrols soon, so that we start off with these new expectations in place? One of my biggest fears (outside of the sheer terror of being a SM in the first place) is that things stay the same because that's how the last SM did it. For example, I'd to see the scouts cooking in patrols on our next campout, which is January 31st, instead of cooking as a Troop.

Especially since National praised councils that had such events within the past 3 years. I remember watching this done at a NAM that was online. I think 2021.

The most interesting item is the chapter 7 paragraph on online mbs. Pretty sure this will be ignored by councils that have huge online events with some classes up to 100 scouts and charging as high as $35 per badge.

Can't speak to all parts of the US, but there have been several examples of Councils in New England trying different things. Narragansett Council effectively transferred ownership of their properties to an "outside" group- Rhode Island Boy Scouts, which in turn leases the properties back to the Council. That also allows RIBS to explore opportunities that can use properties for non-Scouting programs. One example they do at one property: Camp Norse Co-Op Spirit of Adventure Council, Daniel Webster Council and Narragansett Council are partnered to run weekend "Base Camp" half-day and full-day programs at various properties, which are open for sign-up to both Scouts and non-Scouts. Knowing several folks who have worked these weekends, their feedback is attendance could be higher if it were allowed to have one adult bringing their child and say 2-3 of their friends, but to ensure they are compliant for youth protection each youth has to be accompanied individually by an adult.

Though I always differ on "age based" and "traditional patrols" and NSPs, I 100% agree on a few key points. 100% agree ... Adults "screw things up. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.". Let the scouts decide ... with very minimal guidance ... and try to balance patrols (somewhat with many caveats). Even this point... I've often seen adults saying the scout's are deciding, but then I watch and the adults subvert the scout's independent decision making. Scouts want to be with their friends. The best patrols are where the patrol are (or become) friends and want to spend time together. ... Since the scouts plan, camp, cook, eat, sleep, game, and go to activities together, it really helps if the scouts naturally want to spend time together. IMHO, patrols start to fail when scout ditch their patrol to spend time with their friends in another patrol. Perhaps the scout should be in the other patrol then? IMHO, new scout patrols work well when 10+ join at the same time and NSPs are used to rapidly get scouts up to speed. But, there is no reason to keep those scouts in that patrol long term. Let the scout's decide.

I would posit that National would rather we have no camps and would be happy if Scouts do not go outside at all. That is where bad things may happen. My view is that National and the Councils want to focus on the Cubs that are easier to manage and have parents there to oversee. This whole Troops out and about without generating revenue to National and Councils is not the desired process Scouts is about raising money. Youth out doing things is secondary. Legacy things such as camps are not needed in the new world order.

In all of my experience in Scouting, every single time adults interfere with the Patrol process, they screw things up. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. (major emphasis). There is a reason why Traditional Patrols, aka Mixed Aged Patrol are still around,and begrudgingly mentioned in BSA literature on occasion, 35 years after national wanted aged based patrols to be the new norm: THEY WORK! (again major emphasis) Aged based patrols have so many problems, especially NSPs. I was part of the pilot program, and it failed miserably in my troop. Imagine my surprise when I discover that aged based patrols were the new way of creating patrols. @MattR said it best:

@swilliams, I'm going to make this quick. Scouting works when younger scouts look up to older scouts. Scouting also happens in the patrol. So don't do patrols by grade. Also, scouts want to be with their friends. These 3 items create a difficult puzzle to solve. Some older scouts are natural at working with younger scouts and many are afraid of doing it. Most friendships are around age. You don't understand the scout dynamics as well as the scouts do. That's where the art of being the SM comes in. Another way of saying that is you flail around trying to coach your older scouts to do what they should be doing. I gave up on selecting patrols, let the scouts figure it out but make sure patrols are balanced. Good luck.

You may be right, but that goes against a major part of the program. That upkeep and so on could be maintained with some arrangement like I noted, and the properties would get far more use as well. But as I have said a lot lately, I am just a peon whose opinions hold little or no sway. Let us be real; most of the camp issues are simply due to poor planning and kicking things down the road. Cooperative use of properties is a win, win concept, or so it seems to me.

Out of all of the changes, I am pretty sure National doesn't care much about the loss of camps. They would rather there be 1/2 the camps. Then those camps could be filled closer to capacity and have funds to at least staff and do routine maintenance.

You could try posting in the discussion forums at: https://discussions.scouting.org/ If you post the adult's BSA member ID number (no names), there are a few people on the board who can check for duplicate accounts or other issues.

So... I'm taking over the SM position for our Troop. I feel like we're not horrible at the patrol method, but that we have a fair way to go. I'm completing training as fast as I can, and reading as much as I have time for, but there are a few things that are popping up and this group of Scouters is one of the best resources I've found - either for answers or pointing to where answers can be found - so here I am with my questions. We've experienced a lot of growth this year in our Troop, with scouts joining throughout the year. As a result, our Patrols are kind of a mish-mash, with some scouts not being formally added to a patrol or even knowing if they're in a Patrol. We have five who are not yet Scout rank, but two of the five only need to whip and fuse the rope, do their Child Protection, and SM conference, so even among them, there isn't a clear indication that they should be, or want to be, in a Patrol together. Previously our Patrols have been done by grade, but not sure that's the best answer. The current SPL inherited the Patrols the way they're set up now, so he doesn't have a lot of insight. I've not yet met with the incoming SPL. We need to elect our incoming Patrol Leaders, but will need to set the Patrols first. Any guidance from you for me to pass along would be SO very appreciated.

Outing signup is so messy. I don't have a good answer except I want max attendance, so I do not want to put unrealistic expectations on early signup. We let it go "as far as practical". Menu planning happens in the monday meeting before the outing. Someone leaves as grubmaster, they usually shop Thursday. We cut off self-serve signups on Tuesday AM but allow people to contact me right up to Thursday afternoon as long as I can confirm with the grubmaster's parent that they can add one for shopping. My goal is to get as many of my scouts on every outing as possible so I'm probably TOO lenient on this, but in my experience teens/parents don't commit weeks ahead and the last minute excitement of the planning in the meeting and post-meeting chatter on their group chats, etc. results in those who were not passionate about going suddenly caving into FOMO and wanting to jump in. Not uncommon for example that a Patrol plans their menu on Monday for 4 scouts and ends up shopping on Thursday for 7 because 3 more from that patrol go "What the heck, I guess if so and so and so and so are going - I may as well".

Sadly, though the handwriting was already on the wall, I announce the loss of another almost one hundred year old Summer Camp. Camp Three Falls is gone from the barely surviving Ventura County Council. We will not belabor the myriad reasons why, or how it could have been avoided. Most of them have been noted on here over the past few years, even before the lawsuit and bankruptcy. It is just sad that somehow, in my view, National has not taken a strong stance in preserving camps in councils, as they have for decades been the backbone of the programs. Most councils struggle regularly and have fewer connections, but National might have considered, and actually still could consider, finding a working partnership with outdoor groups, sporting good stores that encourage camping and outdoor activities, including climbing, and maybe form an alliance that would help local councils save camps, even if they are not only for scout use. I keep picturing something along the line of a consortium of say, for example, REI, Dicks, and Bass stepping in to refurbish existing camps and open them to the local scouts, but also to others, especially climbing groups that might use climbing walls, and shooting clubs that might update ranges for all shooting sports. Join with the Y to update water sports, and update boating on lakes in the camps or nearby, again making them available to selected groups such as other youth organizations and churches. Work with colleges and universities to develop on site study options for outdoor sciences, shared with the Scouts for traditional and occasional short term merit badge options. Where the Forest Service and similar government natural resource caretakers find it feasible, perhaps build training sights for park restoration an fire fighting, again allowing youth and leaders to learn more about these things. But that is something that people with real connections would need to work on. And few councils on their own have those resources. The grant just received by national for youth program development proves that there is an interest. Meanwhile, we have officially lost our camp; though rumor says the new owner will work to make it available to us and to save its history. We will see how that shakes out. It could be on the level just noted, or it could be empty promises.

yeah, keeping an eye on renewals is going to be a regular affair for sure. It would be great if they would offer the option to auto renew. Most places I have a membership with like Geocaching.com, Gaia GPS, etc. all email ahead of time "Your membership will renew on X" and it gives you a chance to end the subscription otherwise it just renews. Unsure why they didn't go this route for everyone's sanity and their financial benefit.

This is the answer. It should be highlighted to the beneficiary in the first meeting IMO. They own ongoing maintenance or not. If a Scout sees an eroding project and chooses to do something to spruce it back up that's a nice windfall but should not be an expectation. Also, I tell people often: The first step to getting help is often to ask for help. If a beneficiary is incapable of doing maintenance on a past project, but would like something done - educate them that they can ask the troop the scout was from. The worst thing that happens is it's not possible and they're no worse off. I'd give service hours for renovating a past project for a beneficiary.

I will be making a trip and hand-delivering paperwork. One quirk in my locale is that one toyed of insurance has a credit that will pay for Scouts. However the paperwork needs to be turned into the council and they take care of it. Over 1/2 of my troop is in that program, so there is nothing I can do online. 2 of my adults show YPT has expired. I have copies of their YPT certificates from January, just need to find them, and will be delivering them with the other paperwork. Since all my folks, save 1 adult, were involved in Scouting prior to the new process, everyone, save that one guy, recharters at same time.

Ask the Registrar to open a trouble ticket with IT support. They can see his training history and will credit him if it is complete.

Meh, most subscriptions are automated. Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, etc... you set them up to automatically charge. You have to intervene to stop the subscription. BSA's is currently set up so that you have to take action to renew. At first blush, I think this will only cause units pain. Every outing you go on, you'll have to check to see if Scouts are registered. Actually, many leaders I run across don't bother with that stuff anyway... or medical forms, or swim checks, or adult training, etc... They just take kids camping and don't worry about it. I know a unit that had a Scout camping with them for eight months before they figured out his application was never submitted. Don't see that much different happening with it being automated, especially on renewal.