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Well, you have to make larger donation, but yes, the OA does have knots too

Yeah, the lawsuit caused a lot of Scouting endowments to be raided.

But didn't the lawsuit raid the OA endowment? What is to stop that from happening still?

Per the OA website: Once contributed, the funds will stay in perpetuity within the OA Endowment, whose spending policy allows for the growth of the funds to provide support to key leadership development initiatives within the OA. 1915 Society | Order of the Arrow, Scouting America

I would be interested in where the funds go and for what purpose? How is this different from FOS or the James E. West fellowship? Do I get another square knot? Or knot?

Agree with that line of thinking... make it an honor to be earned & recognized for again, and make senior patrols of OA Scouts in units the centerpiece ... with emphasis on unit and community service. There is too much emphasis on serving the Lodge, rather than serving your unit or the community. So much so, that the Lodge and the OA have become a self-licking ice cream cone (yes, I've used that phrase before...) That is, for most of the Lodges I have seen since the early 2000's, the Lodge exists to serve itself. This is one avenue where the OA has gone wrong... Hopefully, some of you out there have vastly different experiences.

I like the OA. I've got lots of good memories from my youth and the admonition has stuck with me as an adult. That said, I wouldn't be upset if it folded. Lax membership standards and concerns over Native American cosplay have left the OA in rough shape. One underrated benefit of ending the OA program would be a boost in Venturing participation. Right now, they function as parallel senior scout programs, but a strong chapter could easily function as a Crew and continue providing service to its district and local camps. If the OA were to continue in present form, I'd consider eliminating elections in favor of a universal standard such as: 50 Nights of Camping 50 Hours of Community Service Star Rank Completion of Ordeal

More to participate in the endowment donation program.

Maybe the answer is to make it significant again and not just a notch on the belt for someone. When it was an Honor Camping Society that encouraged camping on the unit and council levels, and had real standards to be elected, including limits, and councils did not sell off camps to survive, it was viable. Now it is pretty much a memory for we old people and that notch I noted. No, that would make some people unhappy to have real entry standards. An Honor Scoity for Scouts and Scouters should actually present an aura of honor one might think. A few still do, but it is no longer a mystery or has it any real reason to exist. Just an observation.

Does anyone have the stats on OA membership over the past few years? The section below concerns me. Has the OA fallen so much, that temporary units can now have elections? depending upon when the election is held, folks may not know anyone to judge them worthy or not. EDITED. Found OA annual reports here https://oa-scouting.org/resources/publications/impact-report In the 2014 report, we had 171,211 Arrowmen registered. In the 2024 annual report, we had 98,473 registered Arrowmen. That is a 43% drop in 10 years!

There was an article today in Bloomburg Law about Dechert LLP joining the fight against Slater for their profesional misconduct and ethics violations. The article is behind a paywall. However, I contacted the author of the article. Alex Wolfe gave me permission to publish the entire article. Thanks Alex! If the moderators would like to see the correspondence with the author where he gave me permission to publish this article. Shoot me a private message. Thanks. Boy Scouts Abuse Claimants Tap Dechert to Fight Mass Tort Firm Summary by Bloomburg Law AI Feb. 13, 2026, 3:35 PM Attorneys from Dechert LLP are assisting a group of Boy Scouts abuse claimants seeking to terminate their contingency fee arrangements with Slater Slater Schulman LLP. The group alleges that Slater's misconduct and deception has resulted in irreparable injury to claimants and undermined the credibility of the bankruptcy system. The claimants are seeking to have the court decide whether Slater should be financially penalized for allegedly deceiving thousands of child sex abuse claimants about the status of their claims in the Boy Scouts of America Chapter 11 settlement process. Attorneys from multinational law firm Dechert LLP are assisting a group of Boy Scouts abuse claimants seeking to terminate their contingency fee arrangements with mass tort firm Slater Slater Schulman LLP. A trio of Dechert attorneys, including Yale Law professor G. Eric Brunstad Jr., were part of the team that filed papers Friday urging the US Bankruptcy Court for the District of Delaware to decide whether Slater should be financially dinged for allegedly deceiving thousands of child sex abuse claimants about the status of their claims in the Boy Scouts of America Chapter 11 settlement process. “The Slater firm’s misconduct and deception has resulted in irreparable injury to claimants, undermined the credibility of the bankruptcy system, and has wide-ranging impacts on the BSA debtors’ estate,” the group said. “This court has jurisdiction and the power to ensure that justice is done.” Brunstad, who has argued multiple cases in front of the US Supreme Court, adds heft to an effort to terminate Slater’s 30% to 40% contingency fee agreements it holds with more than 14,000 Boy Scouts child sex abuse claimants. Lawrence Friedman, a former executive director of the Justice Department’s bankruptcy monitoring unit, has spearheaded the legal fight for the claimants. A group of 14 former Slater clients seek to punish the New York-based plaintiffs’ firm for concealing for more than a year that all of its claim submissions were under investigation by the Boy Scouts abuse settlement trust. Slater in September acknowledged that it had submitted “problematic claims” and, as a result, would reduce its total legal fees by about 4%. Its former clients have argued that the firm should either be denied all of its fees or receive as little as $250 per claimant. The group tapped Dechert for additional help after Delaware bankruptcy judge Laurie Selber Silverstein in November said she’s unsure whether she has jurisdiction to wade into the fee dispute, which takes broad aim at the business practices of mass tort plaintiff firms. “So what’s the proper vehicle to raise those issues?” she asked at the time. “I don’t know.” In their brief Friday, the former Slater clients said because the issue is core to the Boy Scouts bankruptcy case, Silverstein has “inherent authority” to decide it. The same authority was used decades ago by a Virginia bankruptcy judge to regulate attorney contingency fees in the Chapter 11 case for A.H. Robins, which settled more than 300,000 personal injury claims stemming from the company’s Dalkon Shielddevice, they said. “Just as in the A.H. Robins case, and perhaps most consequentially for claimants, reducing or capping the Slater firm’s fees would affect the amount that each of the claimants would receive,” they said. An attorney for Slater didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment. Claim recovery has become a fraught topic for abused former scouts, who have so far received just 1.5% of what they’ve been told their claims of childhood molestation and rape are worth. The settlement trust, which began operating in April 2023, had been constrained from distributing additional funds while the Boy Scouts’ Chapter 11 plan was on appeal. In the wake of the Supreme Court’s refusal last month to hear a petition brought by a small group of claimants that opposed the plan, the trust has said it will be making supplemental distributions that raise recoveries up to 4.7% of claim value. Slater is represented by Law Office of Susan E. Kaufman LLC, Robert & Robert PLLC, and Continental PLLC. The movants are additionally represented by Scheer Law Group LLP and Rosner Law Group LLC. The case is Boy Scouts of America, Bankr. D. Del., No. 20-10343, brief filed 2/13/26. To contact the reporter on this story: Alex Wolf in New York at awolf@bloomberglaw.com

Difficult to find any new policy stuff regarding adult camping on any official websites. Apparently, an email with this verbiage went out to Lodge leaders around mid-January: (Underline emphasis added.) ------------------------ As a lodge leader, you play a vital role in creating exciting and welcoming experiences that keep Scouts engaged in the OA. This year, we're introducing significant updates to our induction weekend and membership requirements, changes designed to ensure that new Arrowmen feel deeply connected to their fellow Scouts and leave their induction energized to return to your next lodge event. Induction Updates The Order of the Arrow has created transformative experiences for over a century. We're evolving our induction to ensure today's Scouts continue forging real connections, discovering what Brotherhood, Cheerfulness, and Service mean in their lives, and beginning journeys they'll carry forward for years. To align with that vision, we've redesigned the induction experience to create a welcoming environment to emphasize the connections new members build during the induction weekend and leave energized to participate in your next lodge event. The best way to understand the changes to the induction is to experience it yourself at an induction event put on by your section or lodge. What's Staying the Same? Brotherhood, Cheerfulness, and Service still guide everything we do. The induction weekend remains a serious, meaningful milestone in a Scout or Scouter's journey. Service is still a core component of the induction weekend. The Admonition, "To Love One Another," continues to anchor our purpose. What's Changing? We're strengthening how Scouts experience and understand the values the OA teaches. New members engage in guided reflection and meaningful discussions. Silence still has its place for reflection, but the weekend now prioritizes building the connections that make Scouts want to return. Several experiences have been added to create a shared understanding of what our values truly mean in action. The guide for each group, now called a Luminary, will take on an enhanced role in facilitating these transformative moments, helping new members discover their place in our brotherhood from the very beginning. What’s Happening Next? Watch the Campfire Chat: A recording of Sunday evening's Campfire Chat with our national leadership can be found on our YouTube channel. The Induction Experience: Existing Arrowmen have the opportunity to build a shared understanding by going through the new induction before the lodge offers it to new members. Your section will play a key role in offering an event in your area to attend and experience the new induction themselves. Dates for these events are being finalized and will be shared in early February. We encourage all Arrowmen to experience the new induction as a participant. Practice With Existing Members: Lodges will share the induction experience with existing members at least once before offering it to new members. Support: You'll have resources at your disposal: on demand videos and guides to supplement the Induction Handbook. In addition to webinars and concierge-style support from trained induction staff to help you succeed. More information about this support will be shared in late March 2026. Keep an eye on the OA Website for more details. We're counting on you to help bring this vision of the induction to life. Step one? Go experience it. We'll see you at your section or lodges induction experience. Membership Requirements Updates We are also updating our membership requirements to allow more opportunities for Scouts and Scouters to be elected into the Order of the Arrow and participate in our program. We're expanding election opportunities beyond traditional units to include council-recognized Scouting America groups like staff for summer camp and NYLT, council high adventure contingents, and jamboree troops. Nearly a third of units don't hold elections, and every eligible Scout deserves a pathway to membership regardless of unit circumstances. The camping requirement for adults has been removed. This change recognizes that many adults who would be valuable resources to the Order face professional or family responsibilities that make youth-oriented camping requirements challenging, and lodges need a broader pool of qualified adults to support youth leadership and meet safeguarding policies. These changes ensure that today's Scouts, and the adults who support them, have additional pathways to OA membership. We are working through how to best support lodges implementing the expansion of unit elections and will share more in the coming months. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anyone receive this?

I was not aware of the Adult adjustment, though totally agree. Years ago I had one of our parents and really involved parents turned down by our lodge for nomination due to his not having ever done a long term. Now this is a man that had done every available training of the time, as he could fit it in. And he had been on a dozen or more weekend backpacks, some up to four nights, and he had done what was then called Trail Boss training with the FS. But, he had tow younger daughters and a wife, and his annual longer term vacation was for family. Thus he did not go to summer camps. When his son was elected, was when we also nominated him as an adult. Fortunately he rethought his emotional response when turned down, and he did not drop out. He finally managed to work out a week at summer camp, but that was three years later. It was, from my perspective, ignorant and short sighted. He had more nights than a number of adults that did get accepted due to summer camps, plus he also was an accomplished welder and building skilled person willing to share his skills. The worst part of that was when I suggested to the Scout Exec that he might wave the summer camp requirement of the time, he refused. Later I went to Jambo and spoke to a couple of OA big shots, and they told me in no uncertain terms that my perspective was nonsense and they would never even consider that. Oh well; he is long in the background, the son is in his thirties and married, and OA is a mess.

Induction of adults into the OA was never intended to be an "honor"...it was to fulfill the need for adult supervision and advisors to the youth. As such, they are not "elected", but "selected". I agree with the elimination of the camping requirement.

The camping requirement has been eliminated for adults.

Madness

Do not remind me of the changes.. Yes, some lodges were doing things wrong. Other lodges were doing it properly. I don't think if the local Native nation has both youth and elders involved with the OA, doing ceremonies, dancing, singing, etc is a problem. Heck one lodge had a tribal councilman as a member, and his cousin was a ceremonialist. Another lodge had a powwow drum started at an OA event. I was active when the change was made. I and a few others said the OA will slowly die as a result of letting everyone in. I gave them 20-25 years. I think the 100th Anniversary gave it a little more life, and of course the patch collectors. OK, I admit, I have read names off of scrolls and the back of shield for AOL and Call Outs. Especially if the pack didn't have anything with their names on it. But completely agree with reading from paper for the main ceremonies. I would rather the "contemplative pause" or even ad libbing the lines, especially if the ceremonialist knew the meaning and purpose of the lines. Instead of using an adult nomination form, they put the SM on the ballot with the youth, and had the Youth vote on him.

How is this really different than the James E. West program? It is much like the concept that at one time was discouraged of local lodges issuing new patches regularly as "trade bait", especially just prior to Jamboree and OA National events. In our almost extinct Lodge, we had a period with so many patches that nobody had a clue, other than it was another variation for some obscure reason.

If they only want you to wear it to official OA functions where only Arrowmen would be present, it doesn't seem to really help advertise to increase participation. They could have just gone with a "years of service" type pin to attach to a sash IMO, rather than whole new sash. That would be far more subtle than this.

I think OA, and national by extension, is getting desperate for money. Between this and "interesting" elections, to increase membership, I have my wories.

Has anyone participated in the program as yet? I've considered doing so but feel the special sash would be some very unnecessary virtue signaling. But at the same time advertising the program to encourage others to participate is kind of the point of the Sash?

Scouting Mentor: Fr. John Shaw Fr. John Shaw of the Diocese of Yakima. ..should be 94ish years old now and I think still living in the Yakima area of Washington State, though I've heard recently that he was on hospice care a year or 2 back. I know Father Shaw has served St. Mary's in White Swan, WA after his time in Wenatchee, and had retired by 2022 but continued to serve as the Diocesan Native American spiritual director and the English-speaking spiritual director of the Cursillo Movement, a ministry that focuses on training lay people to become leaders. Here is what I also know about Fr. Shaw. In the 1980's & 90's Father Shaw served as Chaplin to Troop 8 in Wenatchee, WA. Chartered by the Knights of Columbus and supported by St. Joseph Catholic Church, Troop 8 was allowed the use of the CYO Hall (where Augustedge Accounting on Chelan Ave is now) every Tuesday night. Father Shaw would drop-in every once in a while, to make sure the boys were growing into young men of God and not degenerating into dirt throwing heathens. Depending on the week, who knows what he found lol. Father Shaw was sometimes a very enthusiastic and animated in his speaking. Such that he frequently had a foamy bit of spittle in the corners of his mouth. Something we Scouts giggled to ourselves about at the time, but is rather fond memory for me now. While my family are not Catholic, we are Christian and my parents saw no harm in allowing my brothers and I to help at St. Joe's when the Troop volunteered. Father Shaw was always there helping when he could. I remember clearly one camping trip the Troop took to Merit Lake up on Highway 2 just past the Nason Creek area. It's about a 5 mile hike up from the trailhead to the lake, with SO MANY switchbacks. The Scouts had set up camp, dinner was made...mostly ate, and the light mostly gone for the night. And up the trail comes Fr. Shaw. He had come up to give the Scouts a Blessing for their weekend activities. After doing so and chatting with the adults for a short time, Fr. Shaw headed back down the trail. He was in camp maybe 20 minutes all told, and at 8:30 or maybe 9 at night, with the dark fully upon us, he headed home. It was the first time I had seen a head lamp before in real life. (Back then they were only used for intense joggers and cyclists. Who knew every Scout would have one thirty...twenty...well some years later.) We watched his light bob through the trees until he was out of sight then carried on with our mischief. I'd always thought he was a bit crazy to do that. The woods and mountains are pretty scary just to be walking in alone when you are 12. Slightly older now I'm grateful for the dedication he showed to the youth back then. St. Joseph's Catholic Church originally chartered Troop 8 in December of 1922. The Knights of Columbus 1545 took up the duties and continues to support Troop 8 as its Charter Organization for over 104 continuous years now. At 98, I wonder how many Scouts Fr. Shaw has known and mentored over the years.

Hi everyone, I’ve been working on an idea for a community-focused outdoor literacy project that could potentially fit well with Scout service projects or Eagle Scout candidates, and I’d really appreciate feedback from leaders who have guided similar initiatives. The concept is simple: a small weather-resistant outdoor sharing box that can encourage reading within neighborhoods, parks, or school areas through book exchanges — but it could also be adapted as a blessing box to support local communities with donated items. The goal isn’t fundraising or promotion — it’s more about giving Scouts a project that combines planning, basic construction/installation, community outreach, and long-term local impact. I’m especially interested in hearing from experienced Scouters: • Have you seen book-sharing, literacy-based, or blessing box Eagle projects work well? • Are there common approval challenges when installing small structures in public spaces? • What skills or learning outcomes tend to resonate most with review boards for projects like this? I’ve put together a general overview of the idea and how a project like this could be structured here, if anyone wants more context: https://havlyn.com/community-sharing-box-initiative I’m genuinely trying to make sure the concept aligns with real Scout expectations, so any advice or experiences you’re willing to share would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Some new norm, some freak anomaly... 1. Still should be youth ( <21 y.o.) run election from Lodge... does not have to be your chapter. In fact, if you had youth in your Troop who were OA members, and were trained in running elections, your Troop could do its own election. Has to be "blessed" by your lodge... Adults (>= 21) should in no way be running the election. This happened with our election last year, as no youth were available the night of our Troop election. I thought we should reschedule, but SM and Lodge wanted it done... smh. 2. Camping nights are still required. Election team does not check this... this is done by SM, who must certify eligible from the unit. Criteria here, https://oa-scouting.org/about/membership That said, I have seen unit leaders certify camping nights when they should not have.... 3. Not sure what you mean here, "The only adult, 21+, was voted on and not nominated." Adults are nominated by the Troop committee... was this your process?? 4. Yes, everyone "eligible" can get elected now. All you need is 50% of those present to vote for you. Say your unit has 5 eligible and 20 Scouts present. Each ballot can list five names. If all five candidates receive a minimum of 10 votes, they are in. smh I take a slightly different tack that @skeptic, and this has been a heated topic in the past.... Here are my thoughts and beliefs, supported by mountains of literature on and from OA... many take a different thought-path, though... A. As @skeptic says, "It pretty much lost any real credibility, in my view, when it stopped putting limits on how many could be elected in a unit..." Agree. OA is no longer really an "honor society" within Scouting, if everyone can get in. That said, we did have a Scout who did not really do anything for the Troop and his fellow Scouts other than show up... his buddies did not select him for OA membership. But that is the only one I have seen in the time since the election rules changed. B. Order of the Arrow recognition is unit-level. There is no written guidance on what "approval of the Scoutmaster" means, other than the written requirements for membership linked above. For any unit leader to inject their personal observations into it makes the process capricious and one showing favoritism. However, if a Scout, who is First Class or above, is not living up to the Scout Oath and Law, the the unit leader should tell the Scout specifically before the OA election, give corrective behavior and goals, and sign off a Scoutmaster Conference for the next rank. (If Scout continues poor behavior, then should be brought up with Troop Committee and let the Scout know he will not be signed off on STAR (or LIFE) requirement #2 "...demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath and Scout Law." ) If the Scoutmaster deems a Scout is eligible, his name should be on the ballot, WHETHER THE SCOUT INTENDS TO COMPLETE THE ORDEAL OR NOT. Simply being elected to the Order of the Arrow is the honor the unit gets to bestow upon their fellow Scouts. It is not about future service to the Lodge... that is what the Brotherhood recognition is for... "An Arrowman's first duty is to his unit." https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/24-413.pdf https://oa-scouting.org/article/thoughts-arrowmans-primary-duty C. When I talk with Scouts about potential OA membership, I tell them there is NO OBLIGATION to serve the Lodge after undertaking the Ordeal. There is an obligation to continue serving the unit. "...the ones who chose you need you." There are TWO different "statuses"... one is membership in the Order of the Arrow (for which you wear your sash); the second is membership in the Lodge (for which you wear your flap. Once you pass the Ordeal (without flinching ) you are ALWAYS A MEMBER OF THE ORDER OF THE ARROW. However, once you pass the Ordeal, you must pay your annual dues to be a member of the local lodge. In the WImachtendienk, Amangiechsin