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My analysis is based on the facts presented. The parent's intent is pretty clear: Dupe their employer into making a MATCHING charitable donation, all the while the parent intending to effectively retract their donation. Why, oh WHY would the parent not just pay for their scout's expenses straight-away without involving their employer??? To obtain $$$ from their employer AT NO EXPENSE to the parent. They never made a donation for their employer to match. My analysis is always subject to reexamination if further facts are presented. Stick to legal analysis and skip the name-calling.

Well, your legal analysis is shoddy. You have assumed the parents' intent without any knowledge other than the OP. And cast several other aspersions on them without any verifiable facts. As a lawyer, you should know better. As a Scout, you should be ashamed.

I practice law for a living. Over 45 years now. Legal analysis is not a beauty contest. I stand by my analysis.

YinYan: Thank you for "Being There" (a very good movie by the way) for our youth. You will eventually be glad you did. Going over this once more. I retired from local gov't service about umpteen years ago, and we had a similar program. I could (and did) donate money to a charity , and got the appropriate tax benefit, and my employer also donated an equal amount to the charity. The charity got twice the money, I got a tax bene, All good. The charity does good things, so I support them. I might even , eventually need the service they provide, but did not seek to use it in any way. The charity gets to decide what to do with the money to serve the purpose they serve. In YOUR situation, what I hear is this: Parent would donate money to a charity , in this case, his Scout's Troop, thru the CO apparently, and his employer would send an equal amount to the Scout Troop too, thru the CO. All good, Scouting gets twice the money, the parent can use the tax benefit as allowed. They are BOTH "Charity donations", yes? BUT... Parent now wants her/his donation credited specifically to his/her Scout's benefit to pay for fees, dues, etc. This is not right or appropriate or legal in many ways, and I am surprised the parent does not realize this. Or do they? Donations to any charity must be done with no expectation of a personal benefit in return, no Quid Pro Quo.... That makes it a business transaction, not a DONATION. Our Scout Council has several properties that are named for the donor that paid for them. That is the only "quo" I see in that. Did their son or Grandson or Great Grand daughter get any direct benefit? I don't know, but the name is on the gate and above the door. Your parent wants both a charitable donation AND paid Scout fees from the same bag of money. Tain't funny, Magee....

Thanks for the low point to low point comparison. This seems to be the real change, a loss of ~4-5% overall. Your other point is valid, though, like you said a different analysis. Your point brings about some misleading headlines that National seems to want to publicize by using low point to high point comparison.

And I'll bet you the BSA Annual Report had numbers as of year end, which would include those under the grace period... that is, people who did not pay their renewal fees under the new system, but were being carried on the rolls anyway. So, whenever we do get to see the 2024 Annual Report, you could probably cut those numbers by 20-25% to get closer to reality.

I wasn't making that comparison, but was showing the effects of hiding numbers with a "grace" period. But, since you asked... From Apr 24 to Apr 25: Cub Scout: 2.4% loss, with a loss of 8 Packs Scout: 5.7% loss, with a loss of 8 Troops Venturing: 49% loss, with a loss of 1 Crew (it was a big and popular Crew) Exploring: 11% loss, with a loss of 3 Posts

His numbers seem to jive with what I am seeing in my district/council. Sounds like we lost 25% of membership in 24 hours. On a personal note I got off the phone with my COR and I told them that we're fine, we have no action to take, the numbers that dropped from our roll were expected and unavoidable. I reminded them that the extra paperwork I had them chasing the past few weeks to get our handful of not renewed over the line is right now paying with dividends as no one at council can complain about our units membership status; we had no sloppy losses due to laziness (which I suspect a lot of other units are now dealing with).

How about vs 4/1 of 2024? That would be a more apples to apples, no?

In that global news wire thing they state more than a million which is purposely vague; however, knowing how non-profits like to do things I am going to assume that more than a million is closer to 1 million than any other milestone number above 1 million. I think we take this as a good thing, staying above 1 million for 2 years in a row is a sign that the membership decline has arrested. If they had reported just under 1 million or almost 1 million I would totally be in the oh snap, we're still declining camp. My special twist to this discussion though .... local rumors in my area are that "all hands on deck" emails were sent out last night concerning membership loss. Apparently the council I am in was not watching the expired membership reports and was counting everyone who had not renewed their membership on Dec 31, 2024 as members and yesterday when national dropped all of those people from the membership rolls my council lost somewhere around 25% of it's membership. What is everyone else hearing in their neck of the woods?

So the company's program is to make 50% of a donation, but is actually making 100% of the donation. The employee/parent reported a donation (which the company/employer is matching) but in fact, the employee did not make any donation as the Troop is being asked to redirect the donation to the benefit of the employee/parent by using the employee/parent's contributed funds to pay the scouting expenses of the employee's/parent's scout which the employee/parent would otherwise have to pay in addition to the contribution. The company may well see this as its employee defrauding the company. The company may well see this as an offense warranting termination of employment. Fraud is a civil wrong (as contrasted with a criminal offense). The State's Attorney's Office might just see this civil fraud as the criminal offense of Theft. In my state, criminal theft over $300 is a felony the last time I looked. The employee/parent has further complicated the situation by assuming the role of ringleader by recruiting (or at least attempting to recruit) unit leadership into taking an active part in the scheme. Conspiracy? The State's Attorney may well examine whether unit leadership's participation rises to the level of being accomplices. Return both checks.

BTW, 2019 numbers for Scouts: 798,516 2023 numbers for Scouts: 392,275 A 50.87% loss over four years... ouch Prepare for an even more loss for 2024...

In the IRS guides, at irs.gov, these give these clear “donation from family a, family a’s son benefits” as examples. Again, not a grey area of being over the line. Clearly over the line.

Any value in going to the NAM if a) you are receiving an award and b) aren’t on any national committees, sub committees or teams? I assume as a regular Joe, it could be pretty much just a few welcomes and rah rahs?

No. He mentioned that the current YPT training “is a master class in grooming” or something to that effect. Maybe by coupling it with getting the new training content complete, they delayed the annual requirement. I could see that as the reason.

It is simpler than term limits. All adult volunteers, (including at the unit level) only have 1 year terms. So, each year, district chairs must be reapproved.

Good luck finding it... I looked for about 20 minutes, with no success. I'm sure you'll share when able P.S. Last one posted on BSA website?? 2019 https://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/about-the-bsa/annual-reports/ Although, you can view 2023's here... https://www.scouting.org/about/annual-report/ But scan through the links... what's with not putting them up after 2019?

April 1, 2025 (I hope this is NOT an April Fools Joke!!!) Unlike recent years, this year Scouting America delivered on time as required by its U.S. Charter, its annual Report to the Nation. Announcement links: https://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/press-releases/scouting-america-delivers-report-to-the-nation-in-washington-d-c-highlighting-impact-and-future-vision/ https://www.globenewswire.com/fr/news-release/2025/04/01/3053541/0/en/Scouting-America-Delivers-Report-to-the-Nation-in-Washington-D-C-Highlighting-Impact-and-Future-Vision.html P.S. I will now look for the actual report ~RS

If it is a regular Bugle, that slide can serve three purposes. 1) it is used to tune the Bugle to the exact tune of other instruments. All wind instruments have something similar. Watch a band or orchestra "tune up". 2) it also can be used to lower the tone. Being a trombone player (Bass clef) I never worried about this, but I was told the Bugle (Treble clef) was a G instrument and pulling out the slide makes it an F instrument. 3) you take the slide out to shake the spit out and when washing out your horn... Green gunk.... As to your other comment , ALL of the "work" is done with the lips/mouth.... This is called one's "embouchure". and it is, indeed, the biggest stumbling block for young would be trumpeters or Booglers. Buzzing, alot, SQUEEEEZE and get that high G.... Ain't no valves or slide to change the tone. Yes, the "echo" effect is wonderful when done well. The Bugle can be heard a mile away over open land, less thru the woods. bouncing off mountainsides or lake.... Taps is known, but the Tatoo , can be either an Army thing to getthruquick or played with some mellowness and emotion.

100%. I always wonder how many parents have paid for their scout's registration, camping and event fees, but then wrote it off as a donation to the troop. ... BUT ... that's between them and the IRS. It's not troop business. I've seen a few cases where the parent solicits their employers charitable donations (sometimes matching; sometimes based on hours donated) and have used the funds 100% to benefit their own family directly; especially when they were one of the key unit leaders. The most egregious was a company donation used 100% to pay for the parent and scout's high adventure even though it was clear the company intended it to be a charitable donation and no one else from the troop went. It just felt wrong. IMHO, does it smell wrong? Can you tell all the parents and scouts in the troop that's how the funds will be used? Can you write a thank you note to the donor? ... "Dear ACME Inc, Thank you for your company donation. We greatly appreciate the donation and have credit Mr. W. E. Coyote's son's scout account to cover their future scouting costs. Thank you for supporting this scout. Sincerely, Mr. R. Runner" At minimum, your whole unit committee should know how it's being used. My gut says more than one person will say this is wrong.

OK, the numbers are in.... Look at the numbers hidden by the "grace" period.... As of end of March 2025 (3 days ago) our council, compared to Dec 2024: Cub Scout Growth Rate, loss of slightly more than 6% Scouts Growth Rate, gain slightly more 7% Venturing Growth Rate, loss of slightly more than 10% Exploring Growth Rate, gain of almost 28% Overall, Total Growth Rate gain of slightly less than 1% Now, three days later, with the grace period expired, looking at comparison to Dec 2024 numbers: Cub Scout Growth Rate, loss of almost 25% Scouts Growth Rate, loss of almost 15% Venturing Growth Rate, loss of almost 49% Exploring Growth Rate, loss of slightly more than 11% Overall, Total Growth Rate loss of almost 20% (Exact numbers and percentages not posted, to protect the innocent 😜 )

Maybe we could counsel the MB with a Scout playing these:

Inquisitive Scouter says it. So let it be written, so shall it be... Sorry, recently watched Yul Brynner as Pharoah... I am often sadly amazed at the neglect of the Scout Law and Promise. Not to mention the Golden Rule and (nudge nudge) the desire to find ways around personal and societal limitations. This sort of thing makes me think about how things have changed , and/or stayed the same... A Scout is Trustworthy (1948 Fieldbook): A Scout's honor is to be trusted. If he was to violate his honor by telling a lie, or by cheating or by not doing exactly a given task when trusted on his honor , he may be directed to hand over his Scout badge. ((Scout Handbook, 2016): A Scout tells the truth. He is honest, and he keeps his promises. People can depend on him. A Scout is Thrifty (1948 Fieldbook): He does not wantonly destroy property. He works faithfully, wastes nothing, and makes the best use of his opportunities. He saves his money so that he may pay his own way, be generous to those in need, and helpful to worthy objects.. He may work for pay, but must not receive tips for courtesies or Good Turns. (Scout Handbook, 2016) : A Scout works to pay his way and to help others. He saves for the future. He protects and conserves natural resources. He is careful in his use of time, money and property. The IRS has a purpose, often overlooked, and that is to make (some of the monetary playing field even. Donate money and then to claim it back for personal use just on face seems wrong. Thru the company's largess, that this parent wants to help the PURPOSE of Scouting along is wonderful, but the way that is requested is jut wrong. If the parent wants to establish some funds in his Scout's Scout Account (which idea I personally have never liked) is fine, but that is not what the company would understand, I bet. Oops, can't bet. No gambling in Scout fundraising... Company matched donation? To CO for use of Scout Units? Wonderful;. Buy a new Troop Trailer, a new Cub Pack Pinewood Derby track, new pop up tents, cook sets, camp stoves for the Patrols. Renovate, repaint the meeting rooms. New sign out front "HOME OF CUB PACK AND SCOUT TROOP XYZ< MEETS FRIDAY 7PM>>>>" Send the whole Troop to Philmont. Send the whole Cub Pack to overnight on the USS Constellation in Baltimore. But not for one Scout....

I can't tell you whether this is feasible or even acceptable, but that parent is making an unusual presumption. Of all the points of the Scout Law, I best personify "thrifty" (wife can confirm). My penny-pinching brain would never devise a rebate system where I make a "donation" to a legitimate company match program only to turn around and expect that amount rebated to personal slush fund without first consulting the other parties. I'm sorry this puts you in such a difficult position.

The best benefit a scout could have is lots of buddies being able to afford to join the troop. We’d use windfalls like this to offset registration or camp fees. You could even recognize that a particular weekend was thanks to the efforts of the family and their corporate matching program.