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Unit Leader conference to start MB
Armymutt replied to Armymutt's topic in Open Discussion - Program
The problem is getting these kids to actually have an imagination and want to do things. After our last meeting, I was ready to throw in the towel. I've been trying to coordinate extra activities for Scouts who want to Scout. This includes things like a hike in the local state park, the orienteering day at the local council camp, participating in the council's winter merit badge camp, etc. I was told that those distract from the planned program activities of one campout/activity a month. Youth leaders feel that they can use those extra activities to count as their leadership time instead of attending the official activities. Also mentioned was the pulling of adults from the official activities to man the extras. Now, the only adults I've had for the extras are myself and another ASM who is retired and taking care of his grandson. That's why he's in Scouting and I recruited him. I also was told that I shouldn't be serving as the collection point of money to pay for events that require registration as a troop. Frankly, I think I'm capable of handling finances better than the treasurer who can't give me a statement of the accounting after being asked a month ago and who is bewildered by popcorn sales. The final straw was when the SPL announced that there would be no meeting on the 11th due to Veterans Day and a large portion of the troop cheered. Kind of a sign that my efforts are being wasted here. Somewhere along the way, Scouting went from an activity that kids wanted to join to something parents forced them into in order to check a block on the way to college. -
Regarding orienteering in general: the only way to master it is to constantly have opportunities that necessitate using it. 1. Several months of orienteering races where scouts pair up and compete for accuracy and time. 2. Land navigation hikes where destinations have multiple choices. 3. Bridge building and other distance:height measurement challenges. 4. Map study: route planning for trips. 5. Dead drop ingredients for meals/dessert. Give headings to find them. The possibilities are endless once enough of them have earned the badge.
- Today
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InquisitiveScouter started following Unit Leader conference to start MB
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Unit Leader conference to start MB
InquisitiveScouter replied to Armymutt's topic in Open Discussion - Program
Guide to Advancement (G2A), Para 7.0.0.3, (Emphasis added with boldface.) "Any registered Scout, or qualified Venturer or Sea Scout, may work on the requirements for any merit badge at any time. However, before working with a counselor or attending a group or virtual merit badge opportunity, a Scout must meet with their unit leader or their delegate. This is the leader’s opportunity to give guidance on the wisdom of pursuing a selected badge, to advise the Scout on how work might be approached and what may be encountered along the way. It is also the time to provide the names and contact information for one or more approved counselors. The best outcome, however, is that a growth-oriented, positive dialog occurs that provides inspiration and direction in a Scout’s life and even leads to conversations about talents and interests, goal setting, and the concept of “challenge by choice.” The benefits can be much like those of a well-done Scoutmaster conference. It must be noted that this meeting is a required part of the merit badge process, and that it should be documented either by the unit leader’s signature (or their delegate’s) on the Application for Merit Badge (blue card) or in Scoutbook Plus or other method. Even though a leader may voice concerns about a particular Scout pursuing a particular merit badge, it is the Scout’s decision whether or not to proceed. Units must not impose rank or age requirements for merit badge work." https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf Who can initiate a MB for a Scout? The G2A is clear that the Scout initiates the MB. This is not the role of a unit leader. Is the the SM, CC, ASM? It is the SM, or any delegate. Ideally, this would be an ASM, but the G2A does not specify who qualifies as a delegate. What if the SM doesn't want the Scout to start the MB? Suck it up, cupcake. You can advise the Scout of your concerns, but you cannot prohibit them from working on the MB. Does the SM need to say that the Scouts who come can do the MB, or can one of us give the green light? No. There is no "green light" to work on a merit badge... But, an interaction between a unit leader (delegate) and Scout MUST occur before the Scout meets with a counselor. The reference for the Scout on this is the Scout Handbook (because the Scout is not responsible for the G2A. But, you are.) Page 416 in my edition. In step 1., the Scout has this instruction: "Talk with your Scoutmaster about your interest. He or she will help you find a merit badge counselor..." The first sentence cited is an imperative, a non-negotiable requirement... a command. Hope this helps... BTW... we have Scouts with multiple partials who never finish work on merit badges before turning 18. That's OK. How many partials can a Scout have? 141, or however many merit badges there are on the list 😜 Bad practice, and not what we are after, but that is your burden as an SM to bear... working with youth who may be scatterbrained and unfocused. Advise and mentor, but when they don't take your advice, it is not a reflection on you. - Yesterday
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Unit Leader conference to start MB
DuctTape replied to Armymutt's topic in Open Discussion - Program
I would use the campout as the learning and practice ground for the skills, and then the folloeing meeting to individually "test" for the sign-offs. Especially considering all the other activities of a campout. As you know, the individually testing of the scouts takes some time. After which, mention to the scout that you also counsel the orienteering mB, and if they are interested to see the SM for a blue card. -
It’s not about class attendance. It’s about assigning a counselor who will go over all of the requirements with the scout (and a buddy or two) and review how the scout performed each requirement. Any scout may take your class and try your course. But most won’t take the time to meet with you and actually earn the merit badge. It’s really between you and the SM how to handle that 1st step. If the SM agrees that any scout coming to your course deserves a blue card with his signature, let him know who attends. If the SM needs scouts to be a little more intentional, then tell the scouts to talk to him about getting a blue card. This will free you up to focus on the training you want to deliver.
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Armymutt started following Unit Leader conference to start MB
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Who can initiate a MB for a Scout? The G2A says "unit leader". Is the the SM, CC, ASM? What if the SM doesn't want the Scout to start the MB? I was planning on holding an orienteering session for First Class rank on Monday because we have several Scouts who are out of school while their parents have work. Our campout plans for this weekend have been changed due to the original campsite having problems. Now the focus will be on First Class orienteering, cook, first aid, etc. I figure then we'll just make Monday a little more in-depth and do Orienteering MB. I'm an ASM and Orienteering MB counselor. Another ASM is joining me out at the site. Does the SM need to say that the Scouts who come can do the MB, or can one of us give the green light?
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I noticed the second page has a photo of Green Bar Bill on it. I wonder if he is spinning in the grave with what is going on at national?
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New Survey Out, October 2025
InquisitiveScouter replied to InquisitiveScouter's topic in Issues & Politics
The survey instructions say they have done this every 10 years. But last one was conducted in 2010. (Fifteen years ago for those of you who are mathematically challenged 😜 ) From current NESA feed: "Scouting America is partnering with the Harris Poll to update a major outcomes study last conducted in 2010. This research will help us better understand the long-term impact of Scouting. Who’s Involved? Randomly selected Alumni, Eagle Scouts, and Volunteers will receive email invitations to participate." But, from BSA's own website ( https://www.scouting.org/about/research/the-scouting-edge-study/ ) , there was this, in a Scouting Edge Report "These findings comprise results from two parallel studies fielded online in the United States by The Harris Poll on behalf of the Boy Scouts of America between November 29th and December 14th, 2023." https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/marketing/pdf/Final-File-The-Scouting-Edge-8-5x11.pdf That pdf report covers many of the same questions asked in this survey. @Tron, you could perhaps compare there from the 2023 study. So, BSA paid Harris to conduct another poll within 2 years? Seems odd... -
So sounds like Scouting America is trying to determine if their core/base membership has changed. I wonder if this is going to be aggregated to council level or something else. I would love to see this data and compare it to my geographic area.
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The big change happened in 2020/2021 ish with the charter language being updated due to CO's liquidating units to take the resources for themselves. My opinion is increasingly becoming that council boards and district executives prefer it this way and are avoiding engaging the CORs. In my council I find this to be the case but it is the OA's fault as they have an inner circle of <insert non-scout language here> that block everything from happening that they can't take credit for or can't control that has anything to do with the council growing or modernizing.
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DoeringFam changed their profile photo
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My troop growing up held BoRs after committee meetings which were concurrent with a troop meeting upstairs from where the troop met. Scouts stayed after the meeting for their BoR, waiting for the SM to finish his report to the committee. We literally were “up for review.” Every troop manages business differently, but reviewing youth progress and personal growth should be priority business.
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DoeringFam joined the community
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Here We Go, Dissolving the Troop
InquisitiveScouter replied to Eagle94-A1's topic in Open Discussion - Program
Give them that advice. Your experience and intuition matter. 😜 -
Here We Go, Dissolving the Troop
Eagle94-A1 replied to Eagle94-A1's topic in Open Discussion - Program
Well the Scouters, save 1 who is out of town and really just keeps reregistering for OA purposes, families, and Scouts now know. One family is extremely angry, they are legacy and wanted the Scout's name on the church's wall with dad. They were only focused on that, not the best interest of their Scout or the others. The other two families, saw it coming, and appreciate we lasted as long as we did. One even commented on they were surprised we didn't fold last year. The Scouts were completely different. The two Scouts were upset and holding it in by the looks of their faces. One broke down. The troop was his "safe space" where he wasn't bullied or insulted. The question that really struck me was "where will you be going Mr. Eagle94-A1?" I told them wherever the majority goes. I did not want to influence their decision, I want them to explore and decide on their own. But my gut tells me one troop will be a better fit for all four of the Scouts. -
Apparently not. For a troop that is so active, it really seems geared around convenience for the adults. That might be a function of the kids who don't really want to be there. We aren't meeting next week due to Veterans Day. When the SPL made the announcement, the troop cheered. I was disappointed that they don't want to do Scouting. Our committee meetings are held the same night as the troop meetings.
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Our unit has almost exclusively conducted BORs at or immediately after unit meetings. Eagle BORs, being District volunteer level chaired events are held as their own event as befitting its significance. Committee members are canvassed to assemble a sufficient board to conduct the BORs. I don't recall any BORs at a committee meeting, nor even any discussion about conducting a BOR at a committee meeting during my 31 years with the unit. It is interesting how different units have different policies and procedures.
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skeptic started following Seems that BP has extended his influence beyond our world.
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I reapproached it tonight without success. Poor excuses about not having a meeting due to holidays and how important the drug presentation meeting is. I guess we're not going back until Dec and he'll have to do two BORs. He already did the drug class last year. For some reason the CC insists on doing one every year and the kids can't miss a single second of it. Since the temporary SM who insisted that he was done at the end of the year has now decided that he's staying on for another year, I don't see a need for me to attend every meeting. I was told, if they were 17, then they would do one, but since the kids are 11 and 13, they have plenty of times. For a troop that holds the G2SS as almost a Bible, they play fast and loose with the Guide to Advancement.
- Last week
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Here We Go, Dissolving the Troop
Eagle94-A1 replied to Eagle94-A1's topic in Open Discussion - Program
Just prepped my notes for the parents meeting, and for the Scouts afterwards. This hurts. -
Here We Go, Dissolving the Troop
Eagle94-A1 replied to Eagle94-A1's topic in Open Discussion - Program
Well I told College ASM 1 yesterday. He took it stoically, and knew it was coming via dad. College ASM 2, although listed as "Scout," was informed today. He took it really hard. He thanked me for calling him and talking to him about it. -
Here We Go, Dissolving the Troop
InquisitiveScouter replied to Eagle94-A1's topic in Open Discussion - Program
@MikeS72, thanks for the excerpt! "Any remaining assets obtained with funds raised in the name of Scouting must be redeployed for Scouting use in the local area. " I would hope the unit committee and CO would do the redeploying, as their decisions would, of course, be more in line with their wishes. Our council camp is becoming a graveyard of trailers and gear, particularly canoes... The council does not have the time, expertise, or money to fix these assets up to make them salable. -
I would hazard to guess that most units and COs do not read everything before signing. This is cut and pasted from the most recent version of the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America. Council or Unit Assets Upon Dissolution Consistent with the Bylaws, in the event of the dissolution of a council or the revocation or lapse of its charter, the Executive Committee may, at its option, authorize the National Council to assume charge of the affairs of the council and continue operation pending reorganization or re-establishment of the council or wind up the business of the council. All funds and property in the possession or control of such council must be applied to the payment of the council’s obligations. Any surplus funds or property may thereafter be administered as deemed to be in the best interest of Scouting. In the event of the dissolution of a unit or the revocation or lapse of its charter, unit funds and assets must be used to first satisfy any outstanding unit obligations. Any remaining assets obtained with funds raised in the name of Scouting must be redeployed for Scouting use in the local area. Any assets obtained with funds from the chartered organization or parents of registered members may be redeployed as agreed upon by the chartered organization and local council. Any property or funds acquired by the National Council upon the dissolution of a Scouting unit or local council will be administered so as to make effective, as far as possible, the intentions and wishes of the donors. I would read the first highlighted line as money raised through things like popcorn sales, camp card sales, or other unit fundraising and therefore subject to redeployed locally. I would read the second highlighted line as perhaps something like a unit trailer that rather than raise funds for, parents all kicked in and bought, in which case the CO could lay claim to keep.
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Posts
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The problem is getting these kids to actually have an imagination and want to do things. After our last meeting, I was ready to throw in the towel. I've been trying to coordinate extra activities for Scouts who want to Scout. This includes things like a hike in the local state park, the orienteering day at the local council camp, participating in the council's winter merit badge camp, etc. I was told that those distract from the planned program activities of one campout/activity a month. Youth leaders feel that they can use those extra activities to count as their leadership time instead of attending the official activities. Also mentioned was the pulling of adults from the official activities to man the extras. Now, the only adults I've had for the extras are myself and another ASM who is retired and taking care of his grandson. That's why he's in Scouting and I recruited him. I also was told that I shouldn't be serving as the collection point of money to pay for events that require registration as a troop. Frankly, I think I'm capable of handling finances better than the treasurer who can't give me a statement of the accounting after being asked a month ago and who is bewildered by popcorn sales. The final straw was when the SPL announced that there would be no meeting on the 11th due to Veterans Day and a large portion of the troop cheered. Kind of a sign that my efforts are being wasted here. Somewhere along the way, Scouting went from an activity that kids wanted to join to something parents forced them into in order to check a block on the way to college.
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Regarding orienteering in general: the only way to master it is to constantly have opportunities that necessitate using it. 1. Several months of orienteering races where scouts pair up and compete for accuracy and time. 2. Land navigation hikes where destinations have multiple choices. 3. Bridge building and other distance:height measurement challenges. 4. Map study: route planning for trips. 5. Dead drop ingredients for meals/dessert. Give headings to find them. The possibilities are endless once enough of them have earned the badge.
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By InquisitiveScouter · Posted
Guide to Advancement (G2A), Para 7.0.0.3, (Emphasis added with boldface.) "Any registered Scout, or qualified Venturer or Sea Scout, may work on the requirements for any merit badge at any time. However, before working with a counselor or attending a group or virtual merit badge opportunity, a Scout must meet with their unit leader or their delegate. This is the leader’s opportunity to give guidance on the wisdom of pursuing a selected badge, to advise the Scout on how work might be approached and what may be encountered along the way. It is also the time to provide the names and contact information for one or more approved counselors. The best outcome, however, is that a growth-oriented, positive dialog occurs that provides inspiration and direction in a Scout’s life and even leads to conversations about talents and interests, goal setting, and the concept of “challenge by choice.” The benefits can be much like those of a well-done Scoutmaster conference. It must be noted that this meeting is a required part of the merit badge process, and that it should be documented either by the unit leader’s signature (or their delegate’s) on the Application for Merit Badge (blue card) or in Scoutbook Plus or other method. Even though a leader may voice concerns about a particular Scout pursuing a particular merit badge, it is the Scout’s decision whether or not to proceed. Units must not impose rank or age requirements for merit badge work." https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf Who can initiate a MB for a Scout? The G2A is clear that the Scout initiates the MB. This is not the role of a unit leader. Is the the SM, CC, ASM? It is the SM, or any delegate. Ideally, this would be an ASM, but the G2A does not specify who qualifies as a delegate. What if the SM doesn't want the Scout to start the MB? Suck it up, cupcake. You can advise the Scout of your concerns, but you cannot prohibit them from working on the MB. Does the SM need to say that the Scouts who come can do the MB, or can one of us give the green light? No. There is no "green light" to work on a merit badge... But, an interaction between a unit leader (delegate) and Scout MUST occur before the Scout meets with a counselor. The reference for the Scout on this is the Scout Handbook (because the Scout is not responsible for the G2A. But, you are.) Page 416 in my edition. In step 1., the Scout has this instruction: "Talk with your Scoutmaster about your interest. He or she will help you find a merit badge counselor..." The first sentence cited is an imperative, a non-negotiable requirement... a command. Hope this helps... BTW... we have Scouts with multiple partials who never finish work on merit badges before turning 18. That's OK. How many partials can a Scout have? 141, or however many merit badges there are on the list 😜 Bad practice, and not what we are after, but that is your burden as an SM to bear... working with youth who may be scatterbrained and unfocused. Advise and mentor, but when they don't take your advice, it is not a reflection on you. -
I would use the campout as the learning and practice ground for the skills, and then the folloeing meeting to individually "test" for the sign-offs. Especially considering all the other activities of a campout. As you know, the individually testing of the scouts takes some time. After which, mention to the scout that you also counsel the orienteering mB, and if they are interested to see the SM for a blue card.
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It’s not about class attendance. It’s about assigning a counselor who will go over all of the requirements with the scout (and a buddy or two) and review how the scout performed each requirement. Any scout may take your class and try your course. But most won’t take the time to meet with you and actually earn the merit badge. It’s really between you and the SM how to handle that 1st step. If the SM agrees that any scout coming to your course deserves a blue card with his signature, let him know who attends. If the SM needs scouts to be a little more intentional, then tell the scouts to talk to him about getting a blue card. This will free you up to focus on the training you want to deliver.
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