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I don't know of any kid who goes through school that sees any value add in Citz in Nation or World. Both are covered many times in 6th through 12th grade. Citizenship in Community provides value and is often missed in school. Citizenship in home (family life) could continue. So go from 5 (world, nation, society, community and home) to 2. Then add in Wilderness Survival and a shooting sport as Eagle required.

Our council announced one of this year's recipients of the Silver Beaver award is an employee of the council. Is that possible? A lot of former Silver Beaver recipients seem to think it's not allowed and aren't happy about the announcement, but don't know what to do about it.

The mistake was getting involved in the debate. Introducing this a few years caused frustration without gain. Now, removing causes frustration without gain. ... Scouting needs to focus on paddling a canoe and cooking over an open fire; not the politics of the left or the right.

Noone was move vocal then me concerning the re-develement of the ceremony aspect of the OA. I just watched the national presentation ( you go Emma) concerning the new Ordeal ceremony. I admittedly changed my mind. The national Chief and Vice Chief have a great plan to introduce the new material and I think it looks pretty good. I am personally excited th participate in this endeavor and put my whole support as this transition moves forward. Sure I'll miss the AIA aspect and will have fond memories but I encourage all members get on board and support the positive changes.

I get the sentiment of the opt-out idea, but in practice it's not a great idea. It would be abused. Also... if it's covered in school - it should be that much easier to knock it out for Scouts, and the refresher doesn't hurt to know that "An Eagle definitely covered this topic". That's my $0.02.

I might add to your comment the concept of true service and community involvement, often integrated with that outdoor element. It often seems some of the most laudable services revolve around outdoor protection and rejuvenation, along with access improvement.

HUGELY AGREE ... I almost wish there was a opt-out if we know the scout already had it covered in school. ... Wasting scout's time kill the program. ... Doing a MB on a topic covered in school makes scouting look 2nd rate (and wastes the scout's time). ... Citz of society was the 5th badge if you count Family Life as Citizenship in the Family. ... There are just too many class room badges and not enough active badges.

I really question that statement. Is it fully true or only true within boundaries? ... If I read the explicit requirements, I really have little problem with them. If I read the larger societal discussion of DEI, I begin to have larger issues. My two big issues are ... #1 the badge was reactionary to a specific place-in-time and the content is redundant with the whole scouting program. The whole concept of the badge was at the heart of scouting. We did not need an explicit badge that was a known larger political firestorm. #2 In my 20 years of troop scouting, the number one criticism scouts had of merit badges was wasted time. Four citizenship merit badges? Five if you count Family Life as Citizen in the Family. Sure scouts didn't have issue with the content, but I'm pretty sure they had problem with their time being wasted. The lesson learned here is BSA should avoid short-term politics and focus on the long-term goals. Scouting teaches character and responsibility thru outdoor adventures. That has never changed and it's hard to argue. Leave the political stuff (membership, orientation, gender, politics, etc) to our character partners. Scouting has an outdoor structure to develop youth. The rest is outside world noise.

This.

Having eagle is a good thing for people enlisting in the military; when I was on recruiting detail we always did the extra paperwork to get the enlistee E4 (not E3 as a lot of other people claim) which was a HUGE pay difference. But there is no seal of approval. We would recognize that a skillset should be there, and we would reward you like we would reward college education or high physical fitness; however, once an eagle shipped to basic they were garbage just like everyone else. There is literally no mechanism to block scouting from operating on military bases; none, why do people keep saying stuff like this? The on base school PTOs, the FRGs, the USO offices, the Legion posts off base, the VFW posts off base, are all the charter orgs. "Derpy derp derp, can't meet on base." -- Random Politician, "Why not? Is there a youth based risk to the garrison that we need to evaluate that we need to assess multi-dimensionally across all youth groups?" -- Garrison Commander It's all about the money. Plain and simple. Where is @Armymutt on this, he's still serving.

Or it could be that standards for advancement have been lowered? Once upon a time, the standard was "master the skills" and "the badge represents what a Scout CAN DO (sic) not what he has done." Those come from old handbooks and advancement guides. Now the standard is "A badge recognizes what a Scout has done toward achieving the primary goal of personal growth. " Sadly I have been to a camp, where they gave away MBs. Best example were the Scouts given Canoeing MB, but could not paddle in a straight line on a troop trip to save their life. I had a Scout's family member tell me they bought the MBs by going to that camp. Or how about all the MBUs popping up where you sit in class and get a MB? Sadly my own kids, after they aged out, told me some of the stuff they didn't do for MBs they "earned" from MBUs. And don't forget the online MBUs. What FL council awarded over 18000 MBs during COVID from online MBUs?

I am definitely not a fan of the current administration, but I think everyone should keep these changes in prospective. 1. I find few scouts who advocate for our current list of Eagle required merit badges. We have far too many citizenship MBs and most of them are already covered in school. I didn't have an issue with Citz in Society, but I also found little value with the badge. You can still guide your troop in the spirit of the badge. 2. Transgender scouts are still allowed in the program. I was scoutmaster of a troop with a transgender scout and there are various challenges you have to navigate. I didn't allow them in female bathrooms, I made sure they were in a three person buddy group, I didn't let them tent with a female, etc. I still made sure they could participate and told them to let me know if anyone gave them crap. The changes would essentially align to how I ran the troop which I think is appropriate. 3. I don't think anyone would argue against the military benefits. Perhaps they would like to push further but so far, I think scouters should move on to figuring out how to keep meetings fun, how to encourage scouts to fully embrace the patrol method and the other key aspects that scouters engage in every day and week.

Nothing more fun than watching your kid get the big trophy. However, many scout parents get that same dopamine rush from seeing their non team kid excel in scouts. Being in an Eagle Scout ceremony, with congratulatory messages from mayors and members of Congress, sees some parents almost turn purple with pride. It's all good. I think the issue for scouting is that there are more kids and families that enjoy other youth activities more. That's because they are more fun and appealing to kids and easier to access and understand by parents. Scouting has been focusing on everything but those issues for decades and it's had a culmulative effect. Every newly diverting crisis that develops, like this one, only deepens the hole.

Scouting really didn't/doesn't need the West Point Camporee or Jamboree to deliver program though. Both events serve very few scouts in the scheme of things. I think the potential loss of the Eagle Scout promotion and pay upgrades was likely much more consequential, especially since attaining Eagle is the single most important marketing point for the US program. It's a potential benefit noted in almost all the marketing materials and is positioned as almost a Good Housekeeping seal of approval from the U.S. Military of the scouting program. That, and the ability to operate units on US bases were likely the biggest items on the table.

Review the recent history of BSA, and you can make the same statement about their other major policy changes. And all of these changes, I would argue, have not been about what is right. They have been about money. This one is no different.

That's a completely reasonable hypothesis.

I’m disappointed & disgusted by the craven cowardice that National is showing by bending the knee to the cruel, wrong-headed, fascist regime currently occupying Washington. Their decision to sell out the ENTIRE Scout Law to appease and get a pat on the head from our bully-in-chief sends a HORRIBLE message to our Scouts. “Stand up for honor and decency and what you believe in, unless you are scared or it seems too hard” is sad and pathetic.

My wasting tech skills are showing. Oh well. I continue to find it odd that the discussions on the MB going away basically are rehashing the gripes when it was put in place. I said at the time that I thought it was simply unneeded if we were using the simple concept of Scout Spirit as part of their reviews, and also as leaders doing our best as well. IF the rank review, the thing called the SM Conference touches the review of Spirit, then it is a regular review of how well the Scout, and frankly, many adults understand the concepts. But I am old, and still considered Woke by a few, whatever that actually means

One of my local Scouters posed a good point to consider. BSA went to court to avoid militarism in the early days and pushed many early groups out, absorbing them or just letting them dry up, so to speak. But, the cooperation of the Government and military with Scouting has been a mainstay of the program ver the years, and not just at Jamborees. Support for many early Sea Scout groups was directly related to naval bases and the Coast Guard. But it was mostly symbiotic in that the Scouts got contact and excitement, and the military groups got opportunities to work with larger groups in organization and staging, and so on. Indirectly, the selling of War Bonds was part of this as well. Of course, most interactions were peripheral much of the time. Tours and on-base campsites were often available at larger installations. Our troop, for years, camped annually at Edwards and also went to Air Shows there on those camping weekends. All went away with 9-11. A concern has been noted that we need to seriously consider what a merit badge for Military Service might entail, but it is a bit dicey on the surace, and I would not want to see something that could put pressure in some manner to join.

No, they do not. They "lose" out on a great opportunity because most leaders neither understand nor abide by the Scout Oath and Law. In a previous discussion here, a leader, who is supposed to have a lot of time dealing with Scouting, made some of the same errant statements you have made, and showed a deep unfamiliarity with the basic values and the texts we are supposed to be teaching Scouts from. Let's not... the badge is gone. Please focus instead on the exact values, texts, and verbiage mentioned in the thread above, in the Scout Oath and Law, and their explanations in the Scout Handbook, to help the Scouts in your unit understand what they are pledging at each and every meeting (or should be). You have many many opportunities to do this through their rank advancements... You comment indicates you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the Scout Oath and Law, the rank requirements, and many other merit badges available which cover topics like these. (granted, many of those merit badges are not required for advancement) As an adult leader, you have hundreds (almost?) of opportunities throughout a Scout's "career" to address these types of issues. Yet, you abdicate your responsibility to model and develop character and citizenship to a (now defunct) merit badge which many Scouts waited until they were far along in the program to earn??? A few references: Rank requirements: Requirements 1a & 1b: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Scout-Rank.pdf and specifically, requirement 6b. With links here: https://www.scouting.org/training/youth/scouts-bsa/ (required again at Star rank) Requirements 7b & 9: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Tenderfoot-Rank.pdf Requirements 8e, 9a, 9b, & 10: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Second-Class-v2.pdf Requirements 9a, 9d, & 11: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/First-Class.pdf Requirements 2 & 6b https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Star-Rank.pdf Requirement 2: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Life-Rank.pdf See page 21, Requirement 2: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/3321625-Scouts-BSA-Requirements.pdf (oddly enough, no direct link to Eagle requirements, but they are there in the Requirements Book) Requirement 1: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Eagle-Palms.pdf ---------------------------- Eagle required Merit Badges: Family Life, 6b2: https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/family-life/ Citizenship in the Community: 1, 3b, 5 & 8: https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/citizenship-in-the-community/ Citizenship in the Nation: 4b: https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/citizenship-in-the-nation/ Citizenship in the World: 1, 2, and some of 7: https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/citizenship-in-the-world/ Communication: 1b & c, & 5: https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/communication/ ------------------------------------------------------------- And sprinkled into some of these electives: https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/disabilities-awareness/ https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/american-cultures/ https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/cybersecurity/ https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/crime-prevention/ And, using your logic, I will rephrase your statement: "This is why I feel Scouting America's executive leadership has sold out to the current DEI Movement. By adding Citizenship in Society merit badge -- and not highlighting that these ideas are fundamental to the Scout Oath and Law, and deeply inherent in our program, the Scouting America leadership has effectively stated that our existing program and the requirements we have painstakingly developed HAVE NO MERIT. And that's just wrong." If BSA was serious about this, way back then, instead of trying to spring into the fray of virtue signaling, they would have made this a requirement for joining, or for earning Scout rank.

Our Scouts lose by not going through the requirements of the Citizenship in Society merit badge. Let's go through a few of them (quoting from https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/citizenship-in-society/ ) This exercise requires Scouts to learn the denotations of each of these terms so to become a better human being: Identities (this is not just pronouns; it also has to do with religious and ethnic identities as well) Diversity Equality vs Equity (they are DIFFERENT) Inclusion Discrimination Ethical leadership (a fish rots from the head down, as does an organization and a government) Upstander (we don't have enough of people doing this) Image source: https://www.diffen.com/difference/Equality-vs-Equity I'm not sure of anywhere else in the Scouting program makes Scouts think about these particular scenarios. I grew up with classmates making fun of disabilities with jokes like "What do you call a man with no arms and no legs who floats in the water? Answer: Bob". Our current President ridicules women ("Quiet piggy!", "grab them by the p*ssy", "she had blood coming out of...whatever", "we're going to have to bring the women's team",...need I go on? ). That "go back home where you came from" statement...gee, why does that sound familiar? These scenarios force a Scout to mentally prepare for situations where they WILL come up in the future, making it easier to do the right thing and stand up for whomever is being attacked. We ask Scouts during Boards of Review what they'd like to change about the Troop. A few times now a Scout has mentioned that older Scouts are not always being welcoming to the younger Scouts. Requiring Scouts to THINK about welcoming in newcomers -- and making sure all Scouts feel they can be full participants -- is very important for the cohesion of the Troop. Or to quote Atticus Finch from To Kill a Mockingbird: This is why I feel Scouting America's executive leadership has sold out to the current Presidential leadership. By removing the Citizenship in Society merit badge -- and not transplanting these requirements into other merit badges, the Scouting America executive leadership has effectively stated that the requirements of the merit badge HAVE NO MERIT. And that's just wrong.

Watch towers where fun as kid. (12-15 FT) If lashing were good ,rope was good, poles were good. People overseeing its construction understud weight limits centers of gravity, fall risks base ratios ect. Too many did not so failure was high falls greater 6 feet have more fatal results. So no more towers we can look at other ban activities with the same eye.

Breaking people out into different groups does not solve the problem. Since the beginning of the movement we have used things such as uniforms to make it easier for everyone to blend in together. We're supposed to be on the same team; however, it would appear that we're not. Special interests have been trying to create special sub groups for a long time and it has repeatedly floundered or outright failed. We've had all these other groups, and all these other groups are barely hanging on. If all the trans kids wanted to be separate they could be, over in Rainbow Scouts; if all the hardline religious scouts wanted to be separate they could go join Trail Life or one of the other church based youth groups. As bad as things are in Scouting America, the other groups are worse and they are all an example of how division into sub-groups only weakens the opportunity to youth. We don't need separate groups, what we need is equal opportunity and a focus on the true mission of the organization. Notice that no one is being kicked out of Scouting America; Hegseth didn't demand it, Roger Krone didn't say anything about that in his letter. What is clear is that in order to maintain millions of dollars of support from the military we have to re-align towards the military; that is what was clearly said by Hegseth and Krone. I think that's the real problem here, that's what people are really angry about but too cowardice to state. The scouting movement is born from Western military tradition, and scouting in America just got it's wake up call.

Could it be that the number of eagle scouts has stayed consistent because the number of adults is consistent and thus the support inside the program that is needed to get a scout to eagle is still in place regardless of total number of scouts?

Read this and see if you agree with your previous statement. https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2014/12/03/individual-scout-accounts/