All Activity

Thinking a bit more ... I am getting crotchety in my old age. LOL. ... I hope the scout can advance. That would be great. ... But when I hear a parent threaten to pull their scout out because they can't advance, I am frustrated. Advancement is just one benefit and not the biggest one. Is the scout having a positive experience in scouting? Having fun? Growing in character and responsibility? If so, that's the big part. ... I wish advancement always naturally followed that, but it doesn't always. And it makes me sad when the scout loses out on advancement. ... But to threaten to pull the scout because of that is also frustrating to me.

And those are the opportunities lost, in my view. Reach out to local outdoor sources that may appreciate the option on occasion, and do not make it too expensive, but also not a loss leader, so to speak. That might include schools, church groups, local colleges that might do classes there, sporting goods stores with outdoor programs, especially if a climbing facility is there. But also maybe even council insider use for family options. Always seems to be excuses, but little done. Our camp was front and center for fire camp more than once, but it might have also been coused for training, including he scouts in summer and such. Never even suggested, or if it was, never got beyond a mention in a meeting few were allowed to attend. One of the biggest barriers that still seems to survive is "can't". As my grandfather often told me, "Can't" never could do anything".

4 years in scouts. 49 camp outs. ... He should have had plenty of opportunities to advance. Technically, the scout could have easily earned Eagle by then. Key point is the troop should be watching and supporting the scout getting at least to 1st class.

I am not in the troop, I am third party that was approached for advice.

All of last year the national and regional meetings discussed consolidations of use and more days of use on existing camps. I get what is being said, a lot of camps are literally used for only 6 to 8 weeks a year and then they sit unused drawing resources for maintenance.

Is the board really trying, or is it just for show? I have become very jaded about how boards operate based on stories I see, and local experience. They seem to not make the issue public until it is too late to do much, and often many are completely caught off guard.

Another reason on adult attitudes was WHEN (emphasis) they were in Scouting. I know a former Scouter who was an Eagle in the 1972-1979 "Improved Scouting Program" era. That was when it was possible to be an Eagle without a single night of camping. He could not understand why camping was important.

Another camp is on the chopping block for a local council. Tunnel Mill Reservation board scrambling to save historic Charlestown camp. https://www.newsandtribune.com/news/tunnel-mill-reservation-board-scrambling-to-save-historic-charlestown-camp/article_2c417778-020b-411d-bbce-da57dde48d15.html The council has three camps, and this one may be on the realtor pages in July.

We've had similar experiences with various sports coaches and then specifically baseball coaches when the more sports oriented son settled into that. Almost all of them were good and many, especially in baseball, were supportive of scouting. I think one big difference I've seen in youth athletics overall is that bad coaches, unlike bad adult scout volunteers, generally don't linger. The volunteer shortage in scouting means the organization seems to hang on to almost any warm body, no matter how problematic. The existence of umpires and league arbiters also mean that the kinds of rule and vague policy questions that plague scouting, and are the source of numerous social media sites and posts, are resolved more efficiently in sports. As for adult scouters, one possible reason is I think scouting experiences are much more fragmented and individual. One adult might have been in a unit that camped all the time; another adult might have been in a unit that was more advancement driven; another in a unit that was very integrated with a religion; yet another with one that was influenced by military connections and philosophies. When they re-experience it with their kids, it can seem completely different and offputting and definitely more complicated. Sports, on the other hand, can seem almost universally familiar. There have been rule and equipment changes but pretty much youth basketball, football, baseball, soccer players are playing the same game their parents did no matter what part of the country they were from. It's easier to re-onboard with and more understandable. They don't need as much training to be functional.

As much as I like the idea, the cow is out the barn regarding advancement. I remember watching some national online meeting during COVID, I think it was 2021 National Meeting, where National was praising a FL council for having online MBUs and awarding over 20,000 MBs during the pandemic. As for adults bringing back integrity, you already have adults trying to cut corners on training. I had adults trying to get me to sign off on their training, but would not staff a class, or when it was allowed, test out of the class. Sorry if I am pessimistic.

I am an advocate for returning to no age limit on earning ranks. (BSA instituted the age limit in 1952.) Want a good chance to see a return of Scouting skills? Allow adults to earn their ranks as well... Want to have a good chance at restoring some integrity into the Merit Badge program? Allow adults to earn them as well... Removing age limit would also pave the way for bringing back testing for a Board of Review, thus reinforcing Scout skills. Adults would be in a "Rover"-type patrol... Add some additional awards for them for mentoring and teaching youth under 18...

I know when we did how a troop meeting is done with the old SM Fundamentals (SMF) Training, we were told we were to act like Scouts, and work as patrols during our meeting. Maybe because of my age at the time, but I didn't have problems. And I didn't notice any of my patrol mates having problems either. If memory serves, the model PLC used the actual SMF troop PLs with the rest of us watching. But I may be getting confused with BA22 and JLTC. But I agree 100%, training needs to focus more on interaction with Scouts through mentoring and counseling. That was a skill set, counseling PLs while being SPL or JASM, with both BA 22 and JLTC, was very applicable as an adult.

Today's Scouting is not the same program as it use to be. The Cub Scout Program was completely revamped in 2015, with a revision of those requirements in December 2016 . My then Webelos 2 said they "watered down requirements" because they made things easier to earn. Thankfully the pack decided to ignore the 2016 changes until June 2017 because the "immediate" changes were major enough to cause advancement delays, as well as force the pack to change their programming. And they have changed the program a few more times since 2017, with the latest being Webelos cannot begin transitioning to Scouts as that happens in 5th grade now. As for Scouts, the emphasis is on advancement, not fun, adventure, and growth.

Learning for Life is not a bonus. LFL is a subsidiary that most councils, at least the ones I have been in and work for, don't want to have, because once established, they need that program to grow as well. I got into major trouble for tryng to convert "In School Scouting" units to LFL groups. I don't think they are trying to cheat the system. I think they are tyring to synchronize their Scout's membership renewal with the unit's recharter.

Hard to really tell, but you are correct, something seems off.

Certainly not clear. I would argue that it is not even a good method. The adults do not, and cannot learn through the eyes of a plc by pretending to be them. Adults have skills and experiences which the scouts do not have; they think differently so the experience is nothing like what the scouts will experience. The adults get zero training with this method in how to guide, and mentor youth in any of these exercises. IF, the method was to be employed, not only must it be abundantly clear that the exercise is simply to understand the task the scouts will be engaged in, but that is not the training. What must be incorporated is discussion and training in how youth have undeveloped executive functioning skills, and lack the experience of the adults. Training in how to mentor the youth to not just fulfill the task, but grow and lead their fellow scouts. The training and focus cannot be the tasks and exercises with clarity that "this is what the scouts will be doing and you will learn through their eyes by experiencing it now". That is crap. What needs to happen is: 1. A dissection on the differences between how adults with skills and life experiences will engage in a task vs how youth without those skills and experiences. 2. How to guide youth to develop the skills, reflect on the experience, make adjustments and grow. Focus is not the task or exercise, but how to interact with the scouts as young leaders to help them develop. The training exercises need to focus on the scouts, not the tasks. When I led modules in IOLS, this is how I did it. Sure, if the adults did not know the basics, we did those but the main focus was how to encourage the youth to use, practice, and lead the skills within the patrol method. We also had participants reflect on their troop practices which may deny these opportinities to the youth. I recall one participant who had been a SM for many years (never did IOLS), tell me afterwards that he realized that the troop had been doing the same activities/camping locations and plans for so long that the scouts did not have to do any planning nor use any of the skills they should be developing. He realized that the "well oiled troop" was not the goal and actually the journey needs to include more failure for the scouts to grow.

In keeping with the theme of the thread, we've had a good experience with youth basketball coaches. Some are great. Some are OK. None have been bad. Most of the youth coaches in the school district are just dads who played high school basketball. They're required to take a 2-hour coaching seminar in the Fall, but that mainly covers youth protection and first aid (not X's and O's). My son's coach this year is actually an Eagle Scout. He speaks fondly of his time in Scouting but hasn't enrolled his own son in Cubs. I guess that begs the question - why isn't Scouting able to sustain the program with former Scouts returning as adult volunteers?

What is your role in the troop? A SM Conference can be held at any time.

Long weekend, I was out of town on scouting business. I had a scout parent come to me with a unique problem that I am really chewing on. The parent is pissed and ready to pull his three boys out of scouting (transferring troops is not an option). Two of the boys are just along for the ride, the third boy is the scouting engine of the family; however, the third boy has flatlined on advancement and it doesn't make sense. The scout is in a nationally highly ranked high school, ranked in the top 10 in my state, competitive entry, he beat out 750 other kids for his freshman slot in the school. That tells me that the kid is smart and driven. You don't get into schools like this without being smart, having drive, and being able to complete tasks. The scout has been in Scouts BSA for 4 years come March, has 49 camping nights, reportedly has participated in every service project for the past 3 years, and has dropped out of sports to focus on scouts. Scout has wanted to go to NYLT for a couple of years now and the window to register is quickly closing per my council website. The scout is stuck at 2nd class, and for some reason can't get simple things like 1st class 5a and 5b signed off. The parent swears that the scout is not being held back on purpose, he said he's long term friends with a lot of the other troop leaders, he's a member of the charter org, etc ... None of this makes sense to me because outside looking in it sounds like the scout is being held back on purpose by the troop leadership; however, how can I argue with the parent. What does the crowd think?

This is a good method if the instructors are clear that "Hey you're doing this pretending to be the members of the PLC, you're learning through their eyes". That's not often clear though right? WB will help if your council actually runs WB correctly. My local WB is so disgusting that leaders are starting to travel out of council in order to try and experience the process correctly. Here's a juicy quote from a fellow leader "I'm going to PTC to do WB because I want to be able to come back and audit the local WB and tell these idiots how they don't have a clue as to what they're doing."

LFL is not considered part of the unit based numbers, and unit based numbers are where national counts membership. LFL is like a bonus thing or something (I don't quite get it). This is correct, what has been shared with me is showing that Jan 1 dump, and slow uptick of people rushing to renew; however, those Jan 1 numbers were real as a drop-is-a-drop and there are no guarantees that those people will renew. When they do renew, the membership is backdated which often presents issues. Some parents are lapsing on purpose to try and change their scouts membership dates and that only works if you lapse for over 90 days; however, that also presents a bigger problem for renewing. I was just helping with a scout who lapsed after Sep 30th and it was a 2 week nightmare to get him back on the books; the parents wanted him "covered" in the lapsed period so national back dated him and now the parents are pissed because his renewal date is back in September again. There are a bunch of lapses because parents are trying to cheat the system for some reason. The whole lapsed period versus expired thing is a nightmare and in this digital age national should just get rid of both and just terminate membership when they expire.

Wow, go out of town for a couple days and wow a lot was here to chew on. The all merit badge issue is in my opinion a matter of money. The scouts that I have personally seen get them all basically bought their way through it by having the cash to go-go-go. I don't believe a scout should have to master a skill to get a merit badge; however, at the same time I don't believe some of these scouts have retained any knowledge of the harder merit badges which defeats a huge part of the purpose of the merit badge process. The merit badge mills (MBU, etc ... )are less of a concern for me. They're such a mixed bag. Some scouts are coming in with pre-requisites and meeting the base standard, some are exceeding the standard, some are just being tossed a merit badge (which plainly sucks and hurts the scouts and program). I think the difficulty here is that there is a base standard, a minimum; we often get lost in the haze of debate over a scout who over achieves and people believing that should re-baseline the merit badge requirements. Merit badges are not on a bell curve, you do the standard you get the badge. I sat in at a MBU last year and I had a handful of parents and scouts lose their mind on me because they came in with literal reams of pre-work and while great, demonstrating above average achievement, it was a lot of work that was not required. I had to tell a scout and his parents that the standard was X and they did X+10. I had to tell them that the other scouts who just did exactly the requirement for the pre-requisites would get the exact same merit badge. They lost their minds, to them because little billy did more, so should everyone else. The requirements to become a MBC are horrible in every way. The standards are arbitrary and subjective. There are very few if any audits of skill going on. There are fiefdoms for certain merit badges. My personal hate is being told I was not qualified to be an MBC for a merit badge and I came back with "I have over 40 years experience and certified training in this, wtf do you mean I am not qualified to be an MBC for this?". When national rolled out the Citizenship in Society MB and all the hoops you had to jump through to be an MBC for that, where the heck are those hoops for any other MB? How can people get signed off to be an MBC without doing the 15min free online training? Too wrap this up I just had to talk a troop leader off the ledge who was going to lose his $%^& on our councils "MB Dean" when the MB Dean told the troop leader that he wasn't qualified to MBC Citizenship in the Nation; the troop leader is teacher who literally teaches a course called "Citizenship in America" at a local high school. The whole process is broken.

Not just Cubs, and it is worse. I had to talk to Scouts who cared less about Eagle because they know Eagles who honestly didn't earn it. They asked me "What's the purpose if everyone gets it." That was a difficult discussion. They got upset with folks being handed MBs without doing the work they did. Again another difficult discussion. But the one that hit me hard was OA elections. OA meant a lot to me growing up, and I remained active as an adult. Sons even helped me assemble regalia and the drum. None of my sons got interested in the OA. One because he saw folks he knew, and questioned how they got elected. Another was pumped to join, until the Call Out Ceremony, when one of his peers in his former troop, who hated camping and was a trouble maker, got called out with him. He lost all interest in the OA because, "If an honor society will let him in, it is not a big deal." Youngest was never interested because of his brothers' experiences. Which was good because the chapter would not stop to do unit elections after 3 years of asking for them. I know in some parts of the country, HS extracurriculars are also graded. I know at the HS I went to, your PE class was based on the sports you played. The practices and games in season counted as class, and the scheduled class period was mandatory study hall. Miss a practice or game, there went your grade. Band had it worse as they had to attend practices, games, competitions, and parades. Depending on the time of year, their music class was more practice, and not study hall. Ditto with missing something, because it affected your grade.

The pressure from sports to be "100% committed to the team" starts to manifest as kids move into Middle School. The same happens with the school play, and most other extra-curriculars. The adults in charge exert the pressure b/c it is more difficult for them to run their program with inconsistent attendance. Just like scouting is more of a hassle with inconsistent attendance. Best way for Scouts to address this is to focus on patrol activities, encourage highly active scouts (those who are 90-100%) to create their own patrol and plan/do stuff together. This high functioning patrol can act as the model for all the others.