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I can think of no faster way to decommission a garrison than to deny programs that servicemen and women want for their kids. That said, even among military families, demand for scouting programs is limited. The West Point camporee, should it turn its attention to Trail Life youth, could be a game changer for that organization. On the other hand, the school will have less access to youth. BSA faces a sunken cost dilemma with Summit. The DoD has a similar issue. Sec Def would have to pose a different mechanism to spend a million and have access to tens of thousands of high school students for a week. I’m pretty sure congress would be skeptical of any other scheme for that price. Also, SBR has some nice terrain for drone training. There’s a deal to be made here.

This theme has appeared often over my time here on the forum, and it almost alway comes back to reality of lives and responsibilities outside of the program. Early in my long tenure, now fiftyish, I was visiting my parents and mentioned my frustrations to my father, the man that in my youngest years worked three jobs, one full time with a long drive to and from. Anyway, he looked at me and laughed. He said something to the effect of, "nothing new". Then he asked if I thought that all my scout brothers' parents were involved as he was. He was on the committee in a number of jobs, as actually was my mother for the time. She had been a denmother for my brother. He told me a couple of stories that matched mine like a Polaroid almost. Then he told me that if it was important to someone, they somehow would work at it and often find the time. But also he told me that life could wear you down, and that Scouting involvement also could, and likely would.

It is. I remember seeing it. 2/3s of the councils gone if memory serves.

I think that slide is here somewhere in one of the bankruptcy threads. I know I've seen it, and I'm pretty sure it was here.

By coincidence, there is an article this morning about schools being sued for hiding a student's trans name and not telling the student is behaving in a trans lifestyle. There is no doubt that trans folks and their parents are becoming known as victims of their environment, and they are lashing out at whoever contributed to that environment. The main issue with schools is that they are keeping the students' trans identity secret from their parents. There is no surprise; a teacher on this forum admitted this was going on in a trans discussion several years ago. I understand the compassion for these youth and their struggle with their behavior, but the BSA should not have put unit leaders in the position of making these kinds of choices. Now we're learning that councils are defying national guidelines and continuing the practice. Unit leaders are unknowingly in harm's way. The trans issue is really just one of many issues that unit leaders have to face when scouts ask them to hold secrets from their parents. Our SM was threatened with litigation for holding information about the scout's behavior from the parents. He had been warned by the more experienced leaders. about the practice. But he continued because he felt it built a trust that he could leverage to change a scout's wrong behavior. The idea is noble, but misused. By the way, I found in my SM training classes that most scout leaders agreed with the idea; after all, we are in the business of building character. However, many leaders, including our SM, learned the hard way that the trust of the parents is just as important as the trust of the scout. What many folks, teachers, scout leaders, coaches, and so forth forget is that parents have the ultimate responsibility of raising their kids. They dictate what their kids learn about life for their future. Everyone the parents entrust with responsibility for guiding their kids through life's lessons and skills is just one resource to help them develop their kids into the kinds of adults they want them to be. I used to teach in leadership training to imagine the character of a youth as a puzzle. Each piece of the puzzle is part of the team that parents use to help develop their kids' character. Each puzzle piece is a teacher, band leader, coach, piano teacher, scout leader, and other influences. But, in most cases, one piece isn't more significant than the other. So, while the Scout Master has a great title and a lot of influence in the unit to change a scout's character, the reality is the SM is only one person among a large team that parents use to help develop their kids' growth into adulthood. The parents are the team leaders, and there has to be trust between the team and the parents. This idea goes for a lot of situations that unit leaders find themselves dealing with. Trust me, scouts are very creative in making bad choices. But a trusting relationship with parents actually gives scout leaders more room, not less, to work with the scout. I can't remember how many times I told the parents of an issue, only to be followed by asking them to give us a couple of weeks to work with their scout. If that didn't work, then it was time to get the parents more involved. My teacher son uses the same approach with his students. Sorry for the long post, but a leader's trust between scouts and parents is very important for me because I have observed many leaders finding themselves in a mess, simply because they wanted a one-on-one trust with the scout for leverage to influence the scout to change. Scouting is hard. Open dialogue and trust between the scouts and parents make it a little easier. Have a great weekend. Barry

The transgender scout in my unit staid in. Earned Eagle, went to Philmont and now in College. Parent was a leader so that helped. The main odd thing was that the scout dressed as a 1950s housewife.... It's like they changed genders and decades. They were treated well overall. I checked in frequently. One leader from another unit told her "I don't get this gender thing, but you do you.". The scout loved that response as they know most don't understand but at least they were kind enough to let them live their life. As you said, single tent, only gender neutral bathrooms, buddy group changes. I was asked but didn't wear the pride knot, I think that hurt a bit. It is a bit complicated to manage, but it is manageable.

I would just say to avoid putting yourself in legal risk, follow BSA rules and regulations. I was told, by a lawyer, I could be sued if a kid caught COVID during a scout outing. "I'll sue the BSA, national, council, CO, committee chair and scoutmaster and let the judge determine who is liable." Just get excess liability insurance and follow BSA policy and you will be fine.

More than everything, lack of parent volunteers will damage this program. I took a similar step a few months ago .. it is sad seeing the change over the last several years. Went from more than enough parents willing to camp and lead outings to crickets.

When I first took over in January of 2025 I saw myself staying as Scoutmaster for at least a year or two after my youngest aged out. He turned 18 this week, and I'm stepping down. I'll be taking on the role of Eagle coach instead. The biggest challenge was time, made worse by the lack of parent involvement in the actual running of the Troop. Of those who were willing to volunteer time, I'd say about 80% of them only wanted to be in an administrative type position - committee member, advancement chair, service chair, etc. Of those who were ASM's, one never came camping even on the trip they were in charge of organizing, and one needed to be hand-held through everything to the point it was faster and easier for me to do it myself. (Crazily, this parent is an Eagle, yet can't cook a meal or put up a tent that isn't their own.) Anywho... it's been great, and awful, and everything in between. God bless those of you who are in this role. I figured I'd share the message I sent to our Troop after the latest political issues, because I think it's a message that's needed no matter what we're facing, but didn't want to clutter the other thread. Although I have just one more week as your Scoutmaster, I wanted to issue a statement of support for ALL our scouts, our friends, and our families. I wholeheartedly believe in the overarching mission of Scouting, which is "to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law." That doesn't change how we are meant to treat others, no matter what is said by outside individuals or administrations. Trustworthy and Loyal means a scout can be relied upon to act with understanding, Kindness and Courtesy in their interactions with others. Scouts should strive to be non-discriminatory and Helpful to everyone around them. In short, the same principles that Baden-Powell espoused when forming this organization still stand today. Do your best to continue to be the amazing young people that you are.

So... we actually have a transgender scout in our Troop, sort of. (They're still registered, but have let me know they will not be continuing with the program.) This scout is male, biologically, but asked to be called by a female name and be referred to as she/her a couple years ago. We met as a committee, at the request of the parent, to decide what we were going to do. All but one of us felt that the right thing to do was to keep the scout as part of our Troop. Since the scout had the support of the parents, that was enough for us to honor the request for name and pronouns. One committee member felt the scout should look into the local girls' Troop. It ended up being such a non-issue. Our scouts made the name switch pretty much instantly and never gave it another thought. They were all still friends. There were no snide remarks. There was no bullying and no asking why the scout didn't switch Troops. They all just went on with Troop business like usual, with one exception, which was that the scout started to tent separately. (Something many of our older scouts choose to do anyway. Hammocking has become a 'thing' with a couple of them.) That was a pretty good lesson for me, watching how our scouts handled it.

Not universally enforced. No such requirements in my council. I facilitated this MB with Scouts from multiple districts multiple times and all I had to do was add it to my current list of MB's.

Fully agree. I understand my council knows they will merge with another council; however, that council is not in great shape financially and likely needs to close a camp or two. My council is holding off on the merger so they aren't blamed for the camp closure. I'm sure there are many similar stories, so national will have to step in. During the bankruptcy a small/secret meeting was held by a fee national leaders. Their PPT slides were reviewed in court but never added to the docket. They included recommendations for a major reduction in councils among other ideas. It is needed and hopefully coming.

I served Scouting multiple decades without that recognition. Later in life, I was blessed with success in the markets and large retirement pension, and so made a donation to our local council endowment. Was awarded SB that same year. Coincidence?

In my council the SB is just another good-ole-boys club award. A few years ago a person got the SB who was not even position trained, never did anything other than make up his own non-sense, had to be removed from a committee due to incompetence. There is a very active volunteer scouter in my council who has a group of about 20 of us (this year, the number varies by year) trying to get him the SB for several years and we can't even get any feedback as to why he keeps being denied. And councils and national wonder why volunteers take their time and money and walk away from the program.

Rural units are struggling due to young parents moving to metro areas to have consistent work. We have a very geographically large rural council in my state. They are fighting demographics which is not their fault. Where I am at the further you get from the big city the more socially conservative the people are; this VERY rural council decided to jump into the fight against Hegseth and pop off about DEI publicly. I expect that they will hemorrhage several hundred youth and adults before the end of the year and accelerate their march towards being merged out. Sometimes these council leaders need to shut up and just let all the arrows hit national. We're going to have mega sized councils regardless; we actually need them. The administrative infrastructure and overhead of Scouting America is a pre-technology based structure that is BLEEDING funding away from program. National needs to force mergers, tell councils they need to embrace remote work and tele/video conferencing. Every DE should live and work in their district, not at council HQ. Every council HQ should be a tiny hole in the wall or a cabin on the council camp used as basically a logistical hub to feed the districts.

No... just Google, but the response does use an AI assist. None of that was legal advice, btw. That is an outline of what civil law suits could be brought and how they would be looked at. Nothing about that tells a client what to do. The only advice I gave to @FireStone was "I urge you to let the parents in your unit know (tactfully and discreetly) if there is a transgender child in the Troop, and allow them to decide the best course of action for their own child." Which is what any reasonable person should do. And you do not need a law degree to be a reasonable person.

You went on a Chat GPT binge of legal advice and opinions.

Clearly stated "check with legal counsel in your state."

Is the expectation that a birth certificate will be attached with every application? What about states that allow gender to be updated on a birth certificate, will we only accept the first print?

Political winds change and lawsuits could come from the other direction in just a few years. Let's avoid a bunch of non lawyers on this forum from giving legal advice.

I just re-read this and saw the blurb above, too... National has issued no clarification on registration policy. No mention of it here: https://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/press-releases/scouting-america-statement-concerning-department-of-war-announcement/ Now, would someone please explain what this gobbledygook means? "Memorializing our existing practices for membership registration and safeguarding youth"(This from the email we all got on 27 Feb.) Here is the current registration policy, "It is the philosophy of Scouting to welcome all eligible youth, regardless of gender, race, ethnic background, sexual orientation, or gender identification, who are willing to accept Scouting’s values and meet any other requirements of membership." https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/2025-Rules_Regulations_NEB-Approved-10.28.2025.pdf -------------------------- However, it seems Hegseth came away from the agreement with National with a different perception of what they had agreed upon... 3. “Scouting America will modify its policy to make clear that membership will be based solely on biological sex at birth and not gender identity. That means that the application, any application, will have only two sex designations, male and female. The application must match the applicant’s birth certificate. The secretary noted, “Scouting will also make clear that biological boys and girls will not be allowed to occupy or share intimate spaces together. Toilets, showers, tents, anywhere like that.” https://dailycitizen.focusonthefamily.com/can-scouting-america-be-trusted/ Watch the video link, particularly at timestamp 3:47. Over the weekend, the article says, Krone took a different tack... If Scouting America does not make those policy modifications, look for more pressure "...in the next six months." Here's an AP article also: https://apnews.com/article/scouting-america-pentagon-military-boy-scouts-14a5fc1521fcd1e51103638f6f504214

Google is your friend... and so is your legal counsel. Key in on "negligence and failure to supervise" in the results below. Exposure could be ruled as abuse in many states. YMMV. Again, check with legal counsel in your state. As it would most likely be a civil case, there'd be a jury. So, it would ultimately be up to them. I underlined a pertinent point in there... I wholeheartedly believe a jury would see it as unreasonable on your part that you did not inform the minor's parents about the situation before any "damage" was done. I urge you to let the parents in your unit know (tactfully and discreetly) if there is a transgender child in the Troop, and allow them to decide the best course of action for their own child. ----------------------------------------------------------- Who Can Be Held Liable in These Cases? If a child was abused by another child, most state laws allow a civil claim against the people or organizations that had a duty to protect them. These third-party claims focus on negligence and failure to supervise. Potential defendants may include: Parents or legal guardians of the offending child If the parents knew their child posed a risk and failed to intervene, they may be held liable for failing to properly supervise or control their child’s behavior. Schools or teachers If the abuse happened at school or during school-related activities, the district may be liable for failing to supervise students, ignoring red flags, or allowing risky situations to occur. Daycare providers or babysitters These individuals and facilities have a legal duty to monitor children in their care. Allowing unsupervised contact, ignoring warning signs, or failing to act on complaints can result in civil liability. Churches, camps, or youth programs Any organization that oversees group activities for children must ensure that their staff follow clear guidelines for supervision and safety. Failing to separate children with behavioral issues or allowing unsafe environments may be grounds for a lawsuit. Therapists or counselors In rare cases, a professional who knew about harmful behaviors but did not report or address them may also face liability. What Must Be Proven in a Civil Claim? To succeed in a civil case involving peer-to-peer abuse, the legal team must show that the defendant acted negligently. This means proving that they failed to act in a way that a reasonable person or organization would have under similar circumstances. Examples of negligence may include: Leaving children unsupervised in restrooms, locker rooms, or private areas Ignoring reports or behavioral red flags about a child’s aggressive or sexual conduct Failing to separate children after an initial incident Not following school or program safety policies Failing to notify parents or law enforcement after a report Each case depends on the specific facts, including the age of the children involved, the setting, and whether adults had an opportunity to intervene. How Are These Cases Handled in Court? Courts treat these cases with care and seriousness. The goal is to protect the survivor while examining whether any adult or institution failed in their duty to provide a safe environment. Most civil cases involving minors are handled confidentially. Protective orders may be issued to keep the names of the children private. If the case moves forward, the court may appoint a guardian ad litem to represent the survivor’s best interests. Damages in these cases can include: Medical and mental health treatment Emotional pain and suffering Educational support or school changes Long-term therapy or trauma recovery services Punitive damages in cases of severe negligence Can These Cases Be Resolved Without a Trial? Yes. Many civil cases involving child abuse settle out of court. This can provide families with a resolution that includes financial support, institutional changes, or formal apologies without requiring a full trial. Attorneys works with families to decide the best course of action. Some prefer to pursue a public case to raise awareness, while others seek a private resolution focused on healing. Taking Action After Peer-to-Peer Abuse If your child has been harmed by another child, it is completely normal to feel overwhelmed and unsure about what steps to take next. These situations are emotionally complex and often come with a mix of shock, confusion, anger, and grief. Parents may question how this could happen, whether anyone noticed warning signs, and what can be done to protect their child moving forward. In many cases, families also struggle with silence. Schools, camps, or organizations may downplay the incident or attempt to resolve the matter quietly. Meanwhile, your child may be dealing with trauma, fear, or shame that makes it difficult for them to talk about what happened. You may feel alone in advocating for their safety and healing.

Why would I have a lawsuit on my hands? I'm just doing what my Council is doing, we're continuing to sign up kids and not checking birth certificates.

So what are they calling a new unit: 6 youths, 2 new youths, 4 for another unit, all 6 from a failed unit, with 4 never coming back. The real metric should be 10 new scouts gain. for every 12 scouts who did not recharter. You will need to bring in 22 new. Real numbers that affect membership gains

Well done. Barry