scout bully

I've just read the postings for "A Patrol of difficult Scouts" and decided to throw another your way. I apologize for the length of this, but I want you to have a good sense of what's been happening.

My son has been the victim of a bully in his school for over 4 years and Scout troop for 2 years. No one, besides me, has taken my son seriously, they(school officials, troop leaders/committee) believed he was overreacting or provoking the harassment. The mother's stand has always been "boys will be boys". The school officials have finally come around and have taken measures to minimize the amount of time the other boy and my son are in contact. My son is fed up and is ready to fight back by whatever means is necessary. I have attempted to convince him not to. He has agreed to refrain at school and at scouts.

At our Klondike meet last month, the other boy verbally harassed my son and then shoved him down on the ice in the parking lot. My son had had enough and retaliated. One of the leaders at the event saw them wrestling on the ground, broke it up and reported the incident to one of our troop leaders. At the next committee meeting this was addressed. The committee decided to assign the two boys to work together on a service project and include the other troop members, also they would miss the next campout. The other parent and I agreed that this would be appropriate for their transgression. The service project (assisting at bingo nights for a local nursing home) has been going well. No arguments, no harassment, no abuse.

Here comes the however part: The very next day after the first bingo night, the other boy calls my son using an online telephone relay service designed for assistance to the deaf to call my son a f****ng p***y. I mentioned it to our committee chair/active leader, and she called the boy's mother. Mom did not understand what this had to do with scouting as it happened outside of a scout function. She was informed that a Scout is... 24/7 and not just during scout events. This week, as my entire family drove down the street in front of the school where the boys just participated in a band concert, the boy gave us a full arm middle finger salute. I don't believe he is aware that I was the one to see it.

Now the sticky part, I am the new Scoutmaster for this troop, I officially began back in December. I am a little hesitant to do a SM conference with this boy on these matters as he's apt to feel that I'm picking on him for the trouble he gives my son and I believe his mother would react the same way. The committee is now fully aware of this boy's behavior and they have discussed having a special meeting to work on this problem but I'm not sure exactly where we can go with this. That's why I've come to you for advice. HELP!

Follow the Guide to Safe Scouting, Bullying and harassing between scouts is FORBIDDEN by the BSA. Document the past incidences. Meet with the committee chair and explain that the BSA requires that the scout and his parents meet with the troop committee to discuss the problems. Together with input from the parents the committee is to develop a behavior plan to deal with the scout. If needed the committee can remove the boy's membership from scouting.

Make sure that you do not treat this scouts misbehavior any differently than any other scout. You must be consistent.

I would do the SM conference and have a heart to heart with the boy. Bring up the specific instance and ask him to explain how they are Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Cheerful, Clean and Reverent. Ask him if he understands why these behaviors are wrong.

It is doubtful that he will be able to defend his actions. Explain then that it has been decided that not only will he not be able to meet the qualifications of Scout Spirit in order to advance at this time but that his parents are being contacted by the troop committee and they will be asking the parents input to determine what punishments may be given the scout and under what conditions he might be allowed to continue in scouting.

Have you ever seen the movie or play Bang Bang Your Dead? A screening of it might be interesting for your troop, after you have previewed it and obtained parental support of corse

I must be blessed. We have never had a problem of this magnitude in our Troop.

It's time to have a SM conference with this lad to explain to him what Scouting is all about. And to explain the rules. Perhaps printing out the section from the G2SS that deals with bullying would be a good idea. I would also have a chat with the parents & advise them that this type of behavior is unacceptable.

spider,

Why the use of a TTY? Is this son or your son hearing impaired?

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

According to the other boy's mother, this is the latest craze going on at the high school. I checked the web-site for Sprintrelayonline.com and it says that no records are kept of the phone calls that are placed or what the content of the message is, so there is no way to trace the calls. According to my son, even the relay operator thought the call was funny -she was laughing as she repeated the message.

spider,

The main reason I asked was my son (an Eagle) and daughter are both deaf and rely or relay to make & receive phone calls. Use of this system by people in the manner this kid used it is outright wrong! It ties up relay operators who's time would be better spent on a call with someone who really needed the system. Being all the craze at the high school doesn't make it right.

The relay operator has an ID number & probably told your son what it was he answered the call.

I better shut up now before I post something that will get me in trouble.

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

Do you have an answering machine? If you are concerned about future calls of this nature, one thing I was advised to do by the phone company was to utilize the answering machine. Instead of just answering the phone, all calls were screened and then recorded unless I pushed the off button after hearing who was calling. However, this was important: they told me to put a message on the machine that all calls were being recorded and to please hang up if they did not wish for the call to be recorded. It put a stop to the calls I was getting. Just a thought. As for the rest, I hope this works out and have no advice to offer, just a sincere wish for you and the troop that this all works out soon.

SM Conference is definitely in order here. You may want to have an ASM with you to back you up. Explain to the boy the G2SS policy - that bullying is strictly prohibited. Also, explain to him the Scouting is more than one hour a week, but is something you live. He is a scout when he's at school, home, church AND Troop Meetings.

Additionally, tie it to his advancement. I have a challenging boy that I've written about here. He is still a Tenderfoot, even though he has completed all of his 2nd Class & 1st Class requirements. I've explained to him about the Scout Oath & Law requirements, and that I am not ready to sign him off on them. He's showing great improvement, and I hope to approve him for 2nd Class in the next month. (Gee, I hope I didn't jinx it). I don't know if advancement is important to this boy, but if it is, that is a card you have to play.

Talk to the parents. Explain to them what steps you are taking. Ask for advice on how to handle their son. Make sure to take someone with you (ASM, CC, or COR). Get their support in what you are trying to do. "Boys will be boys" is not acceptible.

Finally, do you have a discipline policy in your troop? I believe it is every SM's best interest to have a escalation method for dealing with discipline problems. It seems that the three step method (aka "three strikes, you're out"), seems to be most popular. If you don't, I would take that up with the Troop Committee.

I would let an ASM have a scoutmaster conference with the boy first before you would step in. He might take it more seriously from him then the parent. If that doesn't work you need to step in and do something.

When my son (now a silver palm Eagle) was in elementary school he was a quiet wimpy passive kid and seemed to be an attractive target for bullies. He got pushed around at the playground and often came home upset that he had been called insulting names. I do like all the advice you have been given for how to handle the BSA aspect of the problem, but there may be something you can do to eliminate the problem at the source. I am not implying that your kid is wimpy too or anything negative like that... there are so many reasons bullies find their prey, but what I did was start taking a parent-child karate class here at UCSD with my son. I know karate is a G2SS item but this class (Okinawan Ryuei Ryu Kobudo Ryuho Kai taught only in Japanese) has no face/head and strictly limited body contact with the emphasis on Kata (individual development of form). The result was that I got into better physical shape and he stopped attracting bullies. Our Sensei made it very clear that he strongly disapproved of his students ever fighting (outside of sparring in class) and he would take away our rank belts if we did (we are both brown belts now after 8 years of training). As time went on my son never hit anyone, never returned an insult, and was never anything but nice and polite (he did block a few punches early on... so hard a block that the attacker's arm hurt) and the bullies just stopped picking on him. He has never had the problem since. It is something non-verbal in his confidence now, of the way he walks, the way he makes the first impression that the bullies pick-up on to leave him alone. In fact he now enjoys playing on the water polo team in high school. We need to remember that BSA is just part of our other lives and sometimes the solutions need to be found for all-around living not just Scouts.(This message has been edited by KA6BSA)

The worst thing about this position is the fact that it could compromise your leadership as the Scoutmaster. I am not really certain I can add anything that helps in that matter beyond what has already been written.

I certainly know what it is like to be bullied. To one extent or another I was the victim of that for several years in school. I also sometimes was the subject of a bit of it at Scouts. In fact, my first summer camp experience had a few very bad moments related to that. I can certainly say it could be worse. When I joined my troop there was a small group of youth leaders that seemed to treat new scouts about the same as pledges to a fraternity. I can certainly tell you that being tied to a lawn chair is no fun. Even less fun is being tied to a tree by your ankle, while same said group looks on and laughs. Though in some ways I was lucky, there was another guy that they thought made an even better victim.

In the end everything turned out OK. The adult leaders who had supervised that years summer camp soon left the troop for various reasons, and more observant and capable leaders replaced them. The twisted older youth aged out and left the troop fairly soon as well. Unfortunately, I was the only one of an entire den of Cub Scouts that bridged together that stayed in the troop long enough to age out myself.

Bullying must be stopped. Certainly boys do joke around at times in ways that I would rather they didn't. Where it becomes a problem is when the object of the joke isn't laughing. When it becomes a critical problem is when someone specifically takes pleasure from the discomfort or suffering of another person. It is necessary to make it clear that bullying, teasing, and other such things are totally and completely unacceptable.

What starts as simple teasing can wind up being a serious problem that endangers the well being of others.

Welcome back to the forums.

Bob White has the answer covered in his posting.

Sad to say it might be that this Lad who is doing the bullying might need some time to think about correcting his ways.

It sounds as if you have a good working committee. What action is to be taken is up to them.

It seems as if your son and this Lad have some sort of ongoing beef. You might want to find out what it is. Be prepared to find out that maybe just maybe your son is not as blameless as it sounds in your posting. Strange as it may sound it could be that the Lads are friends who can do stuff together up to a point and then something just goes wrong and they end up at each others throat. Many if not most of those who post here have a son in the program and while we love the heck out of them, seeing them do things with their peers is too see them in a different light. Please don't think that I'm taking sides I'm not. My son is a great Lad who wears angel wings when his Grandmother is around. Is polite to adults and goes out of his way to be helpful. However when he is with his pals the Sunday manners are not with him or he does things without thinking.

As a new Scoutmaster you would be doing a great service to both the troop and yourself to get your hands on all of the books that pertain to your role in Scouting and read them. Lots of Scoutmasters spend hard earned money on the books and never read them.

Again if I were you I would follow the wise words of Bob White.

Eamonn

Thank you all for your insights.

Some of the committee was able to get together last night and others will be getting together today to talk about some of this. So far we are agreed to an ASM doing a SM conference and the committee having a discussion with the parents -probably no more than 3 so as not to make them feel we're ganging up on them.

The discussions will touch all of the points; G2SS issues, scout spirit and rank advancement.

Though the boy has been tenderfoot for over a year and seems to be proud of that fact, he has made comments as to what he wants to do for an Eagle project, so there may still be some hope.

Eamonn- as to the history behind the relationship of the two boys -My son has asked the other boy to leave him alone, sort of an agree to disagree kind of thing, and reportedly the other boy has said

You are absolutely right, no boy is a perfect angel, I've sent my own home from a campout before, so I am trying to stay objective.

There are some family issues that make Scouting the ideal program for this boy to be in, but without his coooperation and effort, I'm afraid his behavior and attitude is going to affect the whole troop.

I'll post an update after we do the SM and committee conferences to let you know how this step has turned out.

Thanks again!

Sorry, it seems a sentence got lost from my last post. It should have read:

My son has asked the other boy to leave him alone, sort of an agree to disagree kind of thing, and reportedly the other boy has said "No, I like it this way."

I have been reading this thread with some interest. I was also bullied in school, and as a result, will not stand for any bullying of my daughters. Fortunately, the few times it has happened, they have been able to deal with it on their own with some adult advice.

I think all the advice given here has been good: building the victim's confidence is important, and stopping the bullying at its source is even more important.

Spider says:

"My son has asked the other boy to leave him alone, sort of an agree to disagree kind of thing, and reportedly the other boy has said "No, I like it this way."

This boy has clearly been given more than enough chances to shape up and change his behavior. The school administration has its head in the sand, which unfortunately is true of many school administrations. As a result, the message given to this boy is that he can get away with it.

Knocking someone down is an assault. My advice to spider would be to tell this boy that the next time he lays a hand on his son he will call the police and press charges. Then do it.