Complaints

[Dszczepa 10]

I need to know how I can contact a official

To speak out about serious issues and abuse of power.I know this is a great organization but unfortunately we have fallen on deaf ears and I would appreciate a response that is not from council but from someone with greater authority.thank you.My husband is a Eagle and I really want to keep my son in this program,however the complaints that 85%of the parents have been completely ignored by our Council!

[ScoutNut 147]

Are these complaints related to the popcorn fundraiser at your old Pack?

 

If so, see my response to your post on popcorn credit.

 

If not, what - EXACTLY - were these "serious issues", and "abuse of power"?

[Beavah 205]

Well, I reckon I can refer yeh to this old thread:

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=339551#id_339551

 

I can't tell without more information, but I reckon it sounds like the last item is the one you're lookin' for.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Dszczepa 10]

No it's not the popcorn. We had a cub master who was not youth protected go on several events including a over night and it was covered up by council.we had a bulling program for the kids which at the end of the night our cub master had a heated and almost physical altercation with one of our den leaders in front of several children. We had a meeting to have him removed. We had at least 95% want him to be removed and council lied and kept him in. We picked a new cub master and council went out of it's way not to allow this individual in. I could go on and on with the behavior of this. We decide to change councils. We are located on the county line. We were just informed that we can't do any scouting in our county to which we most live. I know it is very common to have more than one pack in a town. We had close to 40 kids in our original pack of which only 6-7 remained and the rest of the parents and kids are forming a new pack. We are tax payers and feel we have rights. All we want to do is put a great program and a safe program together for these boys!

 

 

[CCbytrickery 10]

Being a taxpayer has nothing to do with BSA.

 

 

They don't have to let you form a new pack. Their organization, their rules.

 

 

Change councils, join a pack in the other council area. We live in one council area, but are registered with another council, because we like that Pack. (The council where we live seems to have been control and workings than the one we are affilated with, but the Pack is the one we want to be with, so we deal.)

[qwazse 4344]

Your scout executive or president of council are probably your best contact. However, if the charter org favors your cub master, council is likely to uphold his position.

 

I can't see anyone higher up doing you any favors.

 

BSA doesn't own any counties, so if y'all want to go fishing at the local watering hole, or go play in the park, they can't stop you. Your boys might miss a camporee or such (kinda dumb IMHO, that's $ that a council is not getting) but in my opinion you have no excuse for not offering the boys a great time with or without your council's approval.

 

How does your new Cubmaster feel about things?

[Wëlënakwsu 57]

The official, ie decision maker, of appointing the Cubmaster is the Pack's Chartered Organization Representative (COR). While most COR's leave this decision to the Pack Committee and Committee Chairman, the COR can exercise their prerogative.

I assume your Pack Committee Chairman is aware of the situation and thus if you want to go to "the top"... I suggest a small group of parents make an appointment to speak with the Chartered Organization Representative and/or the Organization's Executive Officer to express their concerns with short specific examples. It may help to invite someone from your District's Commissioner staff to attend and explain how the BSA functions. The Council professional staff is unlikely to act unless there are clear criminal or Youth Protection violations. The Commissioner is a volunteer and you may find the name(s) and contact info on your Council's web site.

 

Three comments: (1) As a registered Cubmaster, the person had to have completed Youth Protection Training (YPT) at least once. Training is valid for two years and must be kept current. Thus there could be a period between the Cubmaster YPT expiring and the Pack's annual re-charter. This is not uncommon among Scout Units. (2) There are likely extraordinary exceptions, but I assume the Councils utilize the Chartered Organization's address as the determining factor of which Council you are in. Basis info provided, it's unlikely your Organization's Pack can change Councils. (3) If there is no progress toward a satisfactory resolution by the start of the new school year, re-consider voting with your feet... join the new Pack.

 

Gotta ask... what's a bulling program?

 

[Stosh 3452]

BSA's policy on residence? Doesn't matter. I had a Venturing crew that spanned multiple councils in multiple states. Never had a problem.

 

Stosh

[Lisabob 13]

BSA is not a government organization, so being a taxpayer is not relevant.

 

If you do not like the pack your son is in, move to a different pack. Most towns have more than one. If your town only has one, drive him to a pack in a nearby town. It might be helpful to contact your current pack's Charter Organization Rep (the person who represents your pack's sponsor) and clearly and briefly (and unemotionally) lay out the concerns you have. While you as a parent may not be able to effect change in pack leadership, the Charter Org Rep has more authority there. That is, if they agree with you.

 

You cannot relocate the pack to a different council. You can, however, relocate your participation to an existing pack in another council. (Please be aware that not all councils or districts end at the county line.)

 

Now about how to present your complaints:

1. Make sure you have a clear picture of the relevant facts. Don't include irrelevant info. (It doesn't matter that your husband is an Eagle - kids with non-Eagle parents deserve a good quality program too, and being an Eagle doesn't mean your husband necessarily knows anything about the current cub scout program. It also doesn't matter that you are tax payers.)

 

2. In all seriousness, I suggest that you edit yourself to remove the emotional stuff. The more emotionally you protest, the less likely people are to take your complaints seriously. That's terribly unfair sometimes, but it is also true. You might find it helpful to write up your complaints twice - once, for yourself and let it all pour out. A second time, for whoever your complaint is going to (your pack's Charter Org. Rep, for example), where it is very fact-based and not wrapped up in emotion. Phrases like "abuse of power" and "completely ignored" and lots of exclamation points might be in the first draft that you write just for yourself, but shouldn't be in the draft you present to people who you want to do something about the situation.

[moosetracker 132]

What qwazse & josryan said.. The COR makes the decision to hire or fire.. They may just defer to the committees recommendation. But, in order to replace the CM, the new CM must fill out an Adult App for the position & the COR must sign it thereby stating he/she has agreed to the change..

 

If the COR does not want the change, the only next step up is the Institutional Head (normally the preist if a church, or the top dog of whatever organization you are chartered with.).. They can trump the COR..

 

After that no one can trump the IH, from Council or National or whatever (Unless they pull someone for youth protection or being a homosexual).. So your Council can not choose to leave someone as CM that your COR or IH does not want.. If they did in paperwork, that does not mean your Pack need to follow their paperwork, follow the adult leadership you have registered for.

 

But, it would be odd if they had any preference to who your CM is. They are too far removed to care who you have.. Now if they like your present CM, then they can give him a position on district or Council boards.. But, what do they care who your CM is..

 

Now I can see them loosing the paperwork, and never getting it into the computer system. That is typical at any council.. You just roll your eyes and resubmit the missing paperwork..

 

As someone else said, as a taxpayer.. Your council can not tell you you can not have events at any public place in or out of your council or district.. (If that was what your taxpayer comment was in reference too..) Otherwise, BSA has nothing to do with you being a tax payer.. It is a private Organization, not a public or govenment org..

 

If you want to change Packs you are not bound to the ones in your town or school district. You are free to go to anyout outside your town/school district.. It is just up to you how far you wish to drive for a good pack.

 

[ScoutNut 147]

>>"We had a cub master who was not youth protected go on several events including a over night and it was covered up by council.">"We had a meeting to have him removed. We had at least 95% want him to be removed and council lied and kept him in. We picked a new cub master and council went out of it's way not to allow this individual in.">"We decide to change councils. We are located on the county line. We were just informed that we can't do any scouting in our county to which we most live."

[dennis99ss 10]

Me thinks this is a troll................

[SSScout 1615]

I always tell folks "there is no such thing as a stupid question", I try to answer each question as if it was important to that person. Then I try to make sure they have the means to find the answer the next time something similar comes up. Kind of like the Scoutson who calls me at work and says (true story), "Hey, there's nothing to eat at home". What he meant was, there's no cereal I can pour milk on, I don't like cooking the hamburger or eggs or toast and slice the ham....

[Stosh 3452]

There are certain levels of conflict that have been accepted by most group dynamic/counseling/mediation situations.

 

1) A problem is identified: "There is a leak in the 3rd grade classroom."

2) A problem is clouded: "There's a real mess in the 3rd grade classroom."

3) Blame is added: "There is a real mess in the 3rd grade classroom and it's the principal's fault."

4) Gamesmanship: people enjoy being involved in conflict, but everyone has to stay in the game for it to be fun.

5) Divorce: Game's over, time for the other guy to leave.

6) Jihad: I'll destroy you, even if it means destroying me.

 

Keep it in mind that only level #1 is solvable. By the time the situation reaches level #4, it's going to take an act of God to resolve.

 

It is my recommendation that every effort is made to take the situation down to level #1 so that it can be resolved and then move on to the next problem, doing the same thing.

 

People who come on to the forum at level #3 or #4 are basically looking to keep the forum "lively" rather than looking for any real resolution.

 

Trolls love level #4.

 

Stosh

[Jeffrey H 25]

"We had a meeting to have him removed. We had at least 95% want him to be removed and council lied and kept him in."

 

It's unusual and unheard of for a council to get involved at the unit level to approve or disapprove leader positions. The Charter Organization makes the final decision regarding it's unit leaders. A council would only get involved with removing a leader from membership if it was a youth protection violation or failed background check.

 

A Council cannot force it's hand to keep a leader in a position if the Charter Organization does not want that leader. The story is little hard to believe.