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Family Scouting Survey Results


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#1 Saltface

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 03:55 PM

With the flurry of comments on various websites about BSA's announcement today, I'm seeing two major groups starting to take form:

 

1) I took the survey and support National's decision.

 

2) Whoa, what survey? I wish someone had told me about the survey, I would have said no.

 

I myself watched the video and requested a survey, but only because someone smuggled the URL onto this forum. Neither Grand Canyon Council nor my district therein held any kind of public meetings or townhalls on the matter. With Arizona's conservative slant, I can see most scouters here opposing the change.

 

So I'm curious to know what areas were actually polled. Where are you and were you "legitimately" surveyed?


Edited by Saltface, 11 October 2017 - 04:31 PM.

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#2 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 04:14 PM

The poll was in conjunction to the town hall meetings on the topic. If you didn't go, you were not suppose to get the link. One council posted the link to the movie and the survey, so I took it before my council did the town hall.

 

Apparently I am in the minority. I think this is a bigger mistake than the Improved Scouting Program of the 1970s.  Read where Surbaugh said no coed camping for 11-14 year olds. Already know A) troops will ignore it and B) One suggested way to get around it was to make all camp outs 'Family Camp Outs"


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#3 Sentinel947

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 04:19 PM

 
One suggested way to get around it was to make all camp outs 'Family Camp Outs"


That's my own personal dealbreaker.
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#4 Saltface

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 04:20 PM

The poll was in conjunction to the town hall meetings on the topic. If you didn't go, you were not suppose to get the link. One council posted the link to the movie and the survey, so I took it before my council did the town hall.

 

Apparently I am in the minority. I think this is a bigger mistake than the Improved Scouting Program of the 1970s.  Read where Surbaugh said no coed camping for 11-14 year olds. Already know A) troops will ignore it and B) One suggested way to get around it was to make all camp outs 'Family Camp Outs"

 

But in the end, your council did have a townhall, correct? What region are you in?


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#5 Gwaihir

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 05:30 PM

That's my own personal dealbreaker.

 

Why?  It seems the parents are in as much need of learning and development as the kids... family camping is the perfect opportunity to build character for all.  


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#6 numbersnerd

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 05:56 PM

Why?  It seems the parents are in as much need of learning and development as the kids... family camping is the perfect opportunity to build character for all.  

 

But the program is for the development of boys, not their sisters and parents.


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#7 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 06:31 PM

But in the end, your council did have a townhall, correct? What region are you in?

 

Southern Region, but I got the info from Western region council

 

 

Why?  It seems the parents are in as much need of learning and development as the kids... family camping is the perfect opportunity to build character for all.  

 

Because A) parents tend to destroy patrol dynamics in my experience and B) Parents bring siblings which also destroy the patrol method and possibly do things they are not suppose to do.

 

Some of my experiences at the Boy Scout level when family camping is include:

 

1. Siblings causing several thousands of dollars in damage to a facility we are at.

 

2. Siblings complaining that they cannot do the activities the Boy Scouts are doing. As a result the parents start forbidding their scouts from doing the activity, resulting in NO ONE (emphasis) being able to do the activity. This ruined a trip the PLC planned about a year in advance, and was a 7+ hour drive one way. That entire trip was a waste of time, and the troop didn't do any more family camps until almost all involved were gone and no Scouts remembered the weekend.

 

3. Parents and siblings running amok. Seriously I've seen parents interfere with patrol and the siblings running around, getting in the way, and parents not doing a thing to stop it.

 

4. Parents completely disregarding the PLs, SPL, and Scouters trying to correct them.

 

and this on numerous Cub Family camp outs as well as a few Boy Scout family camps

 

5. Parents doign whatever they want with the siblings, disregarding BSA rules and regs. I've seen alcohol, fireworks, firearms (OK, few firearms were OK since they were LEOs), disregard for Safe Swim Defense, Safety Afloat, and shooting sports.


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#8 HoLLyWood

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 07:14 PM

There is no "girl" in Boy Scouts.


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#9 Oldscout448

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 08:44 PM

There is no "girl" in Boy Scouts.

THIS


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#10 Sentinel947

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:27 PM

Why?  It seems the parents are in as much need of learning and development as the kids... family camping is the perfect opportunity to build character for all.  

I  became a Scout leader to help develop character in boys. I'll accept the mission creep of girls. I have no desire to facilitate/ operate family camping, as a single 24 year old adult male. I can just easily set up a group of 20 somethings to go camping. 

 

I understand you think the baby has been tossed out with the bathwater with this decision. I don't agree. 

 

The patrol method, the aspect of scouting that forces youth to operate in a small group environment, lead each other and cooperate as a group, would be lost in a family camping scenario. There's definitely value in family camping, but not for me at this time. 


Edited by Sentinel947, 11 October 2017 - 09:29 PM.

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#11 qwazse

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 10:09 PM

There is no "girl" in Boy Scouts.

unless their brothers come in droves. Then there will be more boys for the low, low price of some girls.

That's the gambit.
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#12 jjlash

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 06:17 AM

Im in Central Region and attended one of the meetings by invitation.  


Edited by jjlash, 12 October 2017 - 06:35 AM.

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#13 King Ding Dong

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 07:38 AM

@Saltface
Although I am now several states and 2 years removed from GSLAC (St. Louis, MO and one of the big Councils) I am still on the contact list and received the survey. Might also have to do with the various stipes I wore (IH, CM, CC, etc). Did not receive one in Simon Kenton (Columbus, OH) but I am just registered as a ASM. Did not think it appropriate to fill out the survey for the old council.
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#14 blw2

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 01:22 PM

I got the survey, but in my thinking it was a formality with the writing already drying on the wall....

 

but extending this idea....that folks weren't given a chance to voice in....

 

the announcement from our council's executive just hitting my in-box a few minutes ago...

 

His opening paragraph (bolding is mine)

On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 the National Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America voted to expand Scouting Programs to allow Girls. The North Florida Council Executive Board, Staff and National Council Representatives were given no advance notice that this would be an agenda item for resolution at the National Executive Board meeting. In fact, I learned of the outcome of the decision just as everyone else did via news sources outside of the BSA.
.......

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#15 Hawkwin

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 01:45 PM

 

I got the survey, but in my thinking it was a formality with the writing already drying on the wall....

 

but extending this idea....that folks weren't given a chance to voice in....

 

the announcement from our council's executive just hitting my in-box a few minutes ago...

 

His opening paragraph (bolding is mine)

On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 the National Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America voted to expand Scouting Programs to allow Girls. The North Florida Council Executive Board, Staff and National Council Representatives were given no advance notice that this would be an agenda item for resolution at the National Executive Board meeting. In fact, I learned of the outcome of the decision just as everyone else did via news sources outside of the BSA.
.......

 

 

What is the rest of the announcement?!?

 

I've seen at least one, Middle Tennessee (on Facebook) that stated that they will not help in this change but will not oppose COs and their own decisions.


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#16 walk in the woods

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:01 PM

I attended my council's meeting in August, was told the survey link would be sent to the email I used to register for the meeting but never received it.  Other scouters at the meeting did receive the survey.  I don't know what selection criteria was used.


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#17 hicountry

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:35 PM

Appreciate folks opinions positions on this but I think we all know the realities surrounding this......

 

1.....BSA already had made a firm decision a while back, the survey and whatever criptic communication on "family Scouting" they but out was simply window dressing to attempt to appease people and give the appearance that they wanted input from the membership before the decision was made. This makes the value of any survey moot in the end anyway.

 

2.....BSA won't release details of the survey but any info they do provide is likely cooked to support the decision already made by national some time ago. Some will say I am not trusting in national and maybe that's not scout like but this is what national gets for the manner in which they have operated in recent years. They have worked for and earned distrust from the units and volunteers, most of us didn't just fall off a turnip truck.

 

3.....There where plenty of posts and threads regarding he survey, the use of the term family friendly and the like. Most saw right through that, others tried to back up BSA and blame others for over speculating. And why did people speculate....because National has shown to anyone with a pulse that what they say and what they do are usually 2 different things which destroys peoples trust. Looks like the speculation gang on family camping being code for coed were correct. I am not surprised as it sounded like they wanted to start to roll in girls in 2018 so the announcement had to come in October/November time frame.

 

Don't worry too long about the survey or opinions you would have given, BSA doesn't really care, they just want anyone who still believes them to think they care. They will keep plundering along with poorly made plans, decisions and implementations or do what they want and only try to look like they are including the volunteers. Pretty poor example of leadership if you ask me.


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#18 Saltface

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 04:52 PM

@hicountry

 

I thoroughly agree that National made their decision quite some time ago. As evidence, I submit the cover of the latest Scouting Magazine.

I just wanted to verify that I wasn't part of some minority that got overlooked in the surveying before I start ranting about it on social media.


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#19 gblotter

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 07:06 PM

Appreciate folks opinions positions on this but I think we all know the realities surrounding this......

 

1.....BSA already had made a firm decision a while back, the survey and whatever criptic communication on "family Scouting" they but out was simply window dressing to attempt to appease people and give the appearance that they wanted input from the membership before the decision was made. This makes the value of any survey moot in the end anyway.

 

2.....BSA won't release details of the survey but any info they do provide is likely cooked to support the decision already made by national some time ago. Some will say I am not trusting in national and maybe that's not scout like but this is what national gets for the manner in which they have operated in recent years. They have worked for and earned distrust from the units and volunteers, most of us didn't just fall off a turnip truck.

 

3.....There where plenty of posts and threads regarding he survey, the use of the term family friendly and the like. Most saw right through that, others tried to back up BSA and blame others for over speculating. And why did people speculate....because National has shown to anyone with a pulse that what they say and what they do are usually 2 different things which destroys peoples trust. Looks like the speculation gang on family camping being code for coed were correct. I am not surprised as it sounded like they wanted to start to roll in girls in 2018 so the announcement had to come in October/November time frame.

 

Don't worry too long about the survey or opinions you would have given, BSA doesn't really care, they just want anyone who still believes them to think they care. They will keep plundering along with poorly made plans, decisions and implementations or do what they want and only try to look like they are including the volunteers. Pretty poor example of leadership if you ask me.

 

You have summarized the situation perfectly in our council as well.

 

My wife attended our council meeting (I could not attend because I was involved in a different Scouting meeting at the same day/time). She reported that discussion was centered on leading statements to force agreement with their desired result. A survey followed with oddly-worded questions that also forced agreement with their preset agenda. Curious note: If you didn't attend the council meeting, you didn't get the survey either. Most long-time Scouters were completely bypassed for any feedback. It was clear they were only seeking a pretext of validation for their predetermined outcome. Even before Wednesday's announcement, I became very distrustful of BSA leaders on this topic because of the disingenuous process they followed at the council level.


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#20 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 09:37 PM

Has anyone looked at the current membership applications with the print code of 717 for July 2017?

 

They changed the wording  regarding memerbship in Cub packs and Boy Scout troops. Instead of "Boys" the words "Youth" and "Children" are used.

 

Plus Lions is fully incorporated into Cub Scouts accorind to the app.

 

Yes, this decision was made a while back.


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