How to market for the BSA

[Back Pack 431]

I'm not sure I have any answers either. My thought was that an icon like Mike Rowe would add value some how. He's an eagle scout and a tv personality. He's respected and articulate and fun to watch. He's probably do it for next to nothing if it's a cause he believes in. That would save scouting money which could be better spent on training.

 

I would like to see boy scouts offer training that shows you how to do something. Many of the classes I have taken or see teach you why you should do something. But I don't know how to change that. Some one smarter than me can come up with a better mouse trap.

[DuctTape 1230]

I still say they need to get a Bear Grylls type at the helm...even if not really at the helm as nothing more than a figure head....

somebody on a TV show doing really cool stuff every week. Somebody not acting...yes I'm aware of some of what Bear has been accused of, but I still believe he is capable and still does a lot of that stuff.... even if he is doing it now with a full production crew.... rappelling, minimalist adventure camping, and the rest....

somebody that has a respectable resume in the field, somebody that is very personable, very positive, and that can be an exciting role model

 

I think somebody like that, doing the things the OP suggested could well be the ticket....(doing that stuff in place of the famous person interview stuff Bear currently does..)  Could be something not all that different from what he's doing now.....just a different twist.

 

Post it on youtube if you can't get it on network TV.

 

The BSA needs to get their heads out of the boardroom and into the woods.

 

My son has lost all interest in scouting.  He only says the meetings are boring, that's all I can get out of him....but I know that a majority of the outings are boring too.  His summer camp experience is the highlight example, but others are to some degree the same.... classroom, bookwork, adult driven advancement.  He could care less about any of that stuff.   The adults, all the way from national to the local volunteers, need to take a HUGE step backwards away from the campfire circle and let the scouts do what they want to do....

Agreed. And the BSA used to do this 100 years ago, albeit a different medium. There were scores of books and comics portraying awesome scouting adventures for the boys to read. Most were not even published by the BSA, but by others (I assume BSA had no problem with it since it was free marketing.) I have a couple of these old books from the teens and twenties. What you describe is the 21st century version. Doesn't need to be an Adult (like Grylls) it can (should??) be actual Scouts!

[DuctTape 1230]

The awesome scouting adventures in the old books were NOT high adventure or grandiose trips. They were scouts as a patrol doing fun scouting things. Most were patrol hikes, or weekend camping trips.

[blw2 433]

Agreed. And the BSA used to do this 100 years ago, albeit a different medium. There were scores of books and comics portraying awesome scouting adventures for the boys to read. Most were not even published by the BSA, but by others (I assume BSA had no problem with it since it was free marketing.) I have a couple of these old books from the teens and twenties. What you describe is the 21st century version. Doesn't need to be an Adult (like Grylls) it can (should??) be actual Scouts!

Yeah, I haven't really developed my ideas on this...but kindof what I was picturing was similar to Bear's current show.

Mike Rowe might be a great candidate for it....

but similar to Bear's show where now he takes a famous city person out for an adventure....but instead 

it could be going out with a scout or scouts as guests on a real adventure

maybe mix it up with adults who were scouts as a kid as guests

along with the adventure, they could touch on all sorts of things....conversations about what scouting has done for that person, fun memories, all sorts of things....

maybe each episode, or some of them, could be visiting a different troop on a troop outing....

 

But as I'm "thinking out loud", I am realizing that before any of that would work, it would have to be real adventures that scouts really do....and since a large portion of what most scouts do is sit and listen....there are some fundamentals that need to change before my idea would have any teeth.  Oh well....nevermind....

 

Well regardless.....I still think a non-boardroom type at the helm would do wonders for PR and add potential

 

and yes Eagledad, that Scouts South Africa add is a real heartstring puller for sure!

[walk in the woods 888]

I still say they need to get a Bear Grylls type at the helm...even if not really at the helm as nothing more than a figure head....

somebody on a TV show doing really cool stuff every week. Somebody not acting...yes I'm aware of some of what Bear has been accused of, but I still believe he is capable and still does a lot of that stuff.... even if he is doing it now with a full production crew.... rappelling, minimalist adventure camping, and the rest....

Wasn't this the Creek Stewart plan? 

[Cambridgeskip 658]

Thanks, fellows.  I suspect we're all in "violent agreement; nevertheless, your points are touching on a sore spot with me ... and one where admittedly I have a bit of an agenda.

 

In my experience selling the "exciting adventures" risks inviting a parental "smorgasbord" mentality where they get the idea Scouting is just the pre-college equivalent of the student activities center.  If the item on the calendar doesn't have the "spark" forget about participation.  This leads to dysfunctions which inhibit the benefits of the Patrol Method.

 

First, planning gravitates to adult "takeover" of the calendar, as the "exciting activities" demand more and complex executive and planning functions beyond the capabilities of Scouts.  The "trickling stream" overnighter envisioned by Eagledad, absolutely required for scout-to-scout training of trail-to-first-class skills, gets crowded-out for more whitewater-rafting-like trips.

 

Second, the "cardboard box" adventures never materialize.  How many times have we given a child a gift, only to be amazed when the kid spends more time playing with the box it came in?  Scouts can plan effectively and execute brilliantly at the "cardboard box" level, where the Patrol Method thrives.

 

I agree, selling the Patrol Method is a heavy lift.  Much heavier than Eagledad's "trickling stream" - which by his own admission requires some parental pondering.  Nevertheless, I truly believe Twenge is onto something that can be addressed directly by the Patrol Method.  I hope the BSA can find a marketing partner to touch on this subtle but critical point.

 

Rant over, carry on.

 Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about the headline high adventure type stuff. It's pointless because you can;t do that every week or every month and the kids get annoyed that they don't get what they wanted.

 

I'm talking more about plugging that week to week low level outdoor adventure. Basically kids outdoors with smiles on their faces. These are three of my favourite photos from various camps with cubs and scouts. And this a short bit of video. Not a mountain, white water river or glider between them, albeit they are all things we've done. No big stuff that's going to get parents thinking it;s all about college. It's quite simply images of kids outdoors with smiles on their faces. That's the harry potter that gets them through the door. The planning that camp out with next to no adult input, that's the Tale of Two Cities they build up to.

[walk in the woods 888]

It's interesting, all the best possible marketing in the world isn't going to sell folks something they don't want, not in the long run.  It's not clear to me what makes our competitors successful...

 

4-H: Few leaders, more parental involvement than BSA without the overhead, more independent work for the youth, dovetails nicely with FFA at the high school level, spot "adventure" programs, specialty clubs, etc.

YMCA: Family oriented, wide variety of individual programs (see swimming, exercise, gym, field trips, summer camps, special programs e.g.YMCA BOLD programming from previous thread), paid employees, 

Rec Sports: Limited season, little parental commitment beyond car pooling, etc.

 

What would make parents choose the commitment the BSA requires (4 or 5 meetings a week, a weekend every month, week in the summer)?  Their kids can get summer camp from 4-H or YMCA, high adventure from YMCA, ski trip with 4-H/FFA/any high school club, STEM from 4-H or school, leadership development from either, etc.  And these require less work from the parents without interfering significantly with school or family time.  It's a tough sell.

[Back Pack 431]

Isn't the bsa message about character and leadership as well as the adventure? If that doesn't sell parents then nothing will. Kids go to college to learn and grow. Scouts should be seen the same way.

[thrifty 49]

My son has lost all interest in scouting.  He only says the meetings are boring, that's all I can get out of him....but I know that a majority of the outings are boring too.  His summer camp experience is the highlight example, but others are to some degree the same.... classroom, bookwork, adult driven advancement.  He could care less about any of that stuff.  

 Are our sons in the same troop?

 

 I found this site.  Click on the scout skill videos.  I imagine that's what fun patrols do at meetings.  Not lots of paperwork.  I showed it to my son.  Maybe he'll use it but he doesn't want to be PL again so probably not.

http://www.programresources.org/

 

BSA definitely needs to do some kind of fun cool marketing but honestly it doesn't matter if boys join and then don't get the promised adventures.

[thrifty 49]

Isn't the bsa message about character and leadership as well as the adventure? If that doesn't sell parents then nothing will.

I think character and leadership are important and should be emphasized as well but that's not why my son is in scouts.  Everyone's different and views the BSA differently.  The way I see it, he could be in other programs that offer some kind of leadership opportunity and I like to think that his parents can take care of the character aspect.  I don't want his SM to be a role model.  Isn't building character a selling point for every youth related program? 

[Back Pack 431]

I guess other programs can claim they build character but do they really? It's not just character but it's the chance to lead, grow and learn. You don't get all of those in sports or other programs right? There's only one team captain. Many of the other youth organizations are not run by the youth so bsa has that going for it. I'm the last person to be giving marketing advice. I'm just going off of what I know people around me look to scouts for.

[Chisos 118]

I guess other programs can claim they build character but do they really? It's not just character but it's the chance to lead, grow and learn. You don't get all of those in sports or other programs right? There's only one team captain. Many of the other youth organizations are not run by the youth so bsa has that going for it. I'm the last person to be giving marketing advice. I'm just going off of what I know people around me look to scouts for.

 

Agreed with this.  Just about everything targeted to youth say they "teach leadership" but none do so in the way the BSA does (assuming, of course, the program is being run correctly).

[blw2 433]

Wasn't this the Creek Stewart plan? 

Not sure what this is referring to.... Was it the "tougher than a Boy Scout" thing that was on TV a couple years back?  That was a nice attempt but missed the target IMHO.  Hitting that target is hard I have noticed, with TV shows.  I can think of a few emergency room type doctor shows as examples that are pretty good....but there's something subtle about the way they are produced that make them obviously tiers below something like the old "ER".  You can tell they are trying hard, but they just miss a subtle something that makes them come of as fake or not quite real....

 

 Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about the headline high adventure type stuff. It's pointless because you can;t do that every week or every month and the kids get annoyed that they don't get what they wanted.

 

I'm talking more about plugging that week to week low level outdoor adventure. Basically kids outdoors with smiles on their faces. These are three of my favourite photos from various camps with cubs and scouts. And this a short bit of video. Not a mountain, white water river or glider between them, albeit they are all things we've done. No big stuff that's going to get parents thinking it;s all about college. It's quite simply images of kids outdoors with smiles on their faces. That's the harry potter that gets them through the door. The planning that camp out with next to no adult input, that's the Tale of Two Cities they build up to.

 

 

 Are our sons in the same troop?

 

 I found this site.  Click on the scout skill videos.  I imagine that's what fun patrols do at meetings.  Not lots of paperwork.  I showed it to my son.  Maybe he'll use it but he doesn't want to be PL again so probably not.

http://www.programresources.org/

 

BSA definitely needs to do some kind of fun cool marketing but honestly it doesn't matter if boys join and then don't get the promised adventures.

 

oh so true!  One year while I was Cub Mastering.... our DE position was vacant so the director did the DE's role for the school visit.  We had a very good turnout with lots of new scouts..... that didn't last long.  Apparently they were lead to believe that they would be shooting BB's at every meeting and once a month they'd be camping out in the NFL stadium in town watching movies on the Jumbotron....  As hard as we tried, they were disappointed.

 

and Camridgeskip, I think you are right about that.... it doesn't have to all be adreneline rush stuff.... but regularly it could be.

I was reading a book a while back, "Rocks in My Backpack".  Long time scout master, troops took regular backpacking trips, overnight canoe trips, snowshoe and ski overnights, snow cave camping, exploring peublo indian ruins..... they were blessed being in Colorado with lots of opportunity so they are probably not a fair thing to compare, but still....  It's not like they were doing that stuff every week....

Anyway, I'd guess the biggest limitation is adult volunteers willing to do that stuff....

[DuctTape 1230]

Agreed with this.  Just about everything targeted to youth say they "teach leadership" but none do so in the way the BSA does (assuming, of course, the program is being run correctly).

That assumption is also part of the issue. Because the program has been allowed to be run incorrectly, the quality diminishes. The real value of Scouting is lost and we end up trying to compete with all the other youth activities and camps. If the BSA would focus on Quality instead of quantity then the scouts would benefit and the known quality becomes its own marketing tool. Major advertising campaigns are done for a variety of reasons, one is when something is in its fledling stages and is unknown, another is when the quality is lacking so the marketers use advertising as a way to "anchor" the product/service in the minds of consumers for the last minute/uninformed consumers. When a product/service is well known by name and its quality it is chosen by the consumers over the inferior. Of course this over-simplifies marketing as a whole but I dobelieve we all desire to produce a high quality program. Some (not here) either don't want to, or do not know how, or just think they are. But in the end, the inferirior run programs tarnish the whole brand. The summer camp merit badge factories are exhibit A.

[Eagledad 2777]

Isn't the bsa message about character and leadership as well as the adventure? If that doesn't sell parents then nothing will. Kids go to college to learn and grow. Scouts should be seen the same way.

Yes, but you seem to be going around in circles to me. Scouting is about character. Adventure and leadership are how the scouting program shapes character. But go read the article again. Is it not talking about character?

 

As a grandfather and youth leader, I think parents today are very much concerned about raising their children into mature adults of character. But the culture (pop culture) has very much defined everything that can harm their kids. AND, a parent could even get arrested from the fears of your community. Our house painter had a long night recently when the neighbor called the police because he spanked one of his kids. Another friend was visited by the policed because his kid didn't wear a bicycle helmet. Schools are terrified of food allergies. I can go on and on, but no wonder parents feel more at calm with their kids in their bedroom playing on the computer on a beautiful sunny day.

 

Parents are looking for a safe outlet where their kids can experience life without fear of harm. Scouting is that outlet.

 

But, if we scouters don't understand the program, how can the parents? Anyone who monitors this forum would come away feeling that patrol method is very complex because we all have opinions of how to use it differently.

 

In reality, developing character is simply learning by the results of choices. My course participants laugh when I tell them that I want my scouts to make wrong choices because that is where they learn to change. The more wrong choices they make, the more they learn and grow. Eventually they will make fewer and fewer wrong choices. BUT, that kind of leadership goes against the natural adult instinct of protecting our youth, so the result is fewer and fewer adults who willingly allow their scouts to make wrong choices. And in this day and age of neighbors calling the police on their neighbors because their kid rode of on his bicycle without s a helmet, we start to understand the challenge of building character in an outdoor program.

 

The challenge for the BSA today is resist going away from a character developing program and morphing into an afterschool daycare program for young adults. Personally, I don't think they are doing a very good job.

 

Barry