Jump to content



Photo
- - - - -

POR question


  • Please log in to reply
46 replies to this topic

#1 Loomie

Loomie

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 02 September 2017 - 02:46 PM

My troop has many scouts of first class or higher.  

 

what POR do other units double up on besides PL and APL?


  • 0

#2 Chisos

Chisos

    Member

  • Members
  • 146 posts

Posted 02 September 2017 - 04:14 PM

I'm guessing you're asking for which POR's can you have more than one scout at a time...I'd say, Troop Guide, Den Chief, Instructor.  As you said, each patrol has its own PL.


  • 0

#3 NJCubScouter

NJCubScouter

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 6315 posts

Posted 02 September 2017 - 04:41 PM

Loomie, welcome to the forums!

POR's are always a hot topic around here, especially as they relate to advancement... but leaving that aside and just answering your question...

When you say "doubling up" I assume you mean having more than one Scout in a troop holding the same position. And I guess the real question is, which positions are "designed" to have more than one Scout in a troop in that position, at least in a larger troop. The ones I can think of off the bat are Instructor, ASPL and JASM.
  • 0

#4 MattR

MattR

    Member

  • Members
  • 1038 posts

Posted 02 September 2017 - 05:26 PM

Pretty much anything, assuming they have a responsibility. If you really need two buglers then why not. The point is the scout has responsibility and is fulfilling it.

 

BTW, APL is usually not a position that gets credit for rank advancement. But that depends on your troop.


  • 0

#5 SSScout

SSScout

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4057 posts

Posted 02 September 2017 - 05:59 PM

Never deny the Scout responsibility.  Give him a job, help him define how to fulfill it, and STAND BACK.    The biggest problem I find with today's kids is a lack of imagination.  They WAIT for someone to tell them what to do. If you find a Scout who is bored and never seems to take any enthusiasm in the Troop/Patrol's events,  give him something to do.  Make him the Axe Yard Master.  Introduce him to a Cub Pack/Den that needs a Den Chief.   Ask him to plan a hike in his favorite park. He says he doesn't have one?  Help him find the maps on Google.  Or hand him the brochure!.  

Bugler takes a musician, but any school band member can handle it.  Ever hear "Call to the Colors on a Saxophone ?   It can be very nice.  Maybe not a drummer, but hey, the British Navy "Beat to Quarters" before Bugles were common.   Instructor...   Nature, Totin' Chip,  knots and rope, any boy would LOVE to be considered an expert.  Encourage that sort of thing with contests and Patrol Competition.   Make the acquaintance of the District Training CHair, see if he can recommend a Scouter well versed in any subject of interest.

Librarian/ Historian?  These can be a pencil whip PoR, or the Scout can show some creativity.  Pictures?  PowerPoint?  Video show?   Merit Badge Book collection promotion?   It will be what they make it, or what the SM expects.  What DOES the SM expect? 


  • 0

#6 ItsBrian

ItsBrian

    Its Who?

  • Members
  • 247 posts

Posted 02 September 2017 - 08:00 PM

There many positions in scouting. Here are a few.

Linked to descriptions of each.

 

Den Chiefs - If you have a Pack that is with your Troop you can easily have them take a training, and place a scout in each den. I was a den chief for a few years, it's not difficult, it's just like being an instructor or guide.

 

Asst. Senior Patrol Leaders - My troop doesn't personally do this, but an idea I've had, having the ASPLs have a certain job, such as one for training, fundraising, meetings, etc. Not sure if that's allowed, would check with your local council. 

 

Instructors, Guides, Historians, Webmasters, JASMS - You can easily have at least two-three each for these positions if you have a big troop. 


  • 0

ItsBrian

 


#7 qwazse

qwazse

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 6841 posts

Posted 02 September 2017 - 08:32 PM

@Loomie and @ItsBrian, welcome to the forums!
And I'm all thumbs with this tablet, so that -1 was meant to be the opposite. :/

Edited by qwazse, 02 September 2017 - 08:34 PM.

  • 0

#8 ItsBrian

ItsBrian

    Its Who?

  • Members
  • 247 posts

Posted 02 September 2017 - 08:36 PM

@qwazse Thanks!


  • 0

ItsBrian

 


#9 Col. Flagg

Col. Flagg

    Robert E. Lee - Patriot

  • Members
  • 1415 posts

Posted 03 September 2017 - 08:28 AM

My troop has many scouts of first class or higher.  
 
what POR do other units double up on besides PL and APL?


None. We require the roles to be filled. No need to double up since we have plenty of scouts. If you don't have enough Scouts then doubling up may be necessary, though it may not be necessary.
  • 0

#10 NJCubScouter

NJCubScouter

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 6315 posts

Posted 03 September 2017 - 09:10 AM

None. We require the roles to be filled. No need to double up since we have plenty of scouts. If you don't have enough Scouts then doubling up may be necessary, though it may not be necessary.


I'm pretty sure Loomie is talking about the other kind of "doubling up." He's not talking about multiple jobs per person, he's talking about multiple persons in certain jobs.
  • 0

#11 ItsBrian

ItsBrian

    Its Who?

  • Members
  • 247 posts

Posted 03 September 2017 - 06:01 PM

I'm pretty sure Loomie is talking about the other kind of "doubling up." He's not talking about multiple jobs per person, he's talking about multiple persons in certain jobs.

Yeah, he's talking about trying to have every First Class+ in a job, from what I understand.


  • 0

ItsBrian

 


#12 Eagle94-A1

Eagle94-A1

    Been there. Done that.

  • Members
  • 1991 posts

Posted 04 September 2017 - 06:45 AM

We have a volunteer who is upset because the same people appear to get elected SPL and PLs. He wants to appoint all positions.  IT DOES NOT WORK! (emphasis).  Some Scouts who are appointed have no interest in the POR and could care less. Some Scouts who are interested, but do not have the knowledge, skills or abilities to do it. Other Scouts, seeing this then act indifferent or with disrespect towards them. Long story short, the troop slowly dies.

 

 

I've seen one troop do just that. As soon as the new SM started appointing PLs and the SPL so that "everyone gets a chance,"

 the troop started losing members to other troops, or outright quitting.


  • 0

"Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt


#13 ItsBrian

ItsBrian

    Its Who?

  • Members
  • 247 posts

Posted 04 September 2017 - 07:08 AM

We have a volunteer who is upset because the same people appear to get elected SPL and PLs. He wants to appoint all positions. IT DOES NOT WORK! (emphasis). Some Scouts who are appointed have no interest in the POR and could care less. Some Scouts who are interested, but do not have the knowledge, skills or abilities to do it. Other Scouts, seeing this then act indifferent or with disrespect towards them. Long story short, the troop slowly dies.


I've seen one troop do just that. As soon as the new SM started appointing PLs and the SPL so that "everyone gets a chance,"
the troop started losing members to other troops, or outright quitting.

That’s just not right. This is my second time as SPL but that’s because I was elected nobody else wanted to be it. Junior patrol PL has been elected twice, because they know he’s the best choice.

Edited by ItsBrian, 04 September 2017 - 07:09 AM.

  • 1

ItsBrian

 


#14 Loomie

Loomie

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 10 September 2017 - 08:59 AM

Thanks everyone!  I was just named the new Scout Master and I'm looking to do a course correction on some of our units past actions.

 

I do in fact mean every first class up having a job, not a scout holding multiple jobs.

 

I appreciate the advice, I'll put it to good use. 


  • 0

#15 Eagle94-A1

Eagle94-A1

    Been there. Done that.

  • Members
  • 1991 posts

Posted 10 September 2017 - 06:56 PM

Junior patrol PL has been elected twice, because they know he’s the best choice.

 

EXACTLY! The Scouts know who do the jobs and who don't better than the adults do.  Me personally, I wish the troop my boys are in would allow reelections.  After 6 months, they have to step down and either A) run for a different position or B) wait until the next election to get back in.


  • 0

"Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt


#16 ItsBrian

ItsBrian

    Its Who?

  • Members
  • 247 posts

Posted 11 September 2017 - 01:35 PM

EXACTLY! The Scouts know who do the jobs and who don't better than the adults do.  Me personally, I wish the troop my boys are in would allow reelections.  After 6 months, they have to step down and either A) run for a different position or B) wait until the next election to get back in.


Really?? 6 months is not a long term to gain experience or make a difference in the troop. My troop has them yearly, and it’s usually suggested don’t run again after two terms, not a rule though just kinda so others step up.
  • 0

ItsBrian

 


#17 qwazse

qwazse

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 6841 posts

Posted 11 September 2017 - 02:58 PM

Thanks everyone!  I was just named the new Scout Master and I'm looking to do a course correction on some of our units past actions.

 

I do in fact mean every first class up having a job, not a scout holding multiple jobs.

 

I appreciate the advice, I'll put it to good use. 

Congratulations! Some simple-minded pointers ...

  • The SPL assigns positions (except PL's) with your advice ... so keep him in the loop. If he so much as makes an ugly face at a name you bring up, ask why he's hesitant, respect his opinion, and see if you all can figure out a better way to work with that boy.
  • Ignore rank patches. He who does the work holds the PoR patch. E.g., if nobody is actually organizing MB pamphlets, and nobody else cares, don't assign a librarian. But, if there is one second class scout always sweeping out the trailer or demanding that cook kits come back polished. Support the SPL by not forcing him to pick a Librarian, but encourage him to recruit that sweeper for QM.
  • A scout is allowed to ask for help if a job is too hard for him. But if he doesn't ask, and the job doesn't get done, then you need to ask him to reconsider holding his PoR until his ready to do the work.
  • Try to get 1st Class Scouts to choose the position they think they will do best. If one doesn't think he'll do anything well say, "Okay, let's talk about it a couple months."
  • Don't forget the option of assigning service projects. Some boys just do better if they have one big task to work on over the course of a few weeks, rather than the laundry list of tasks that come with PoRs.

  • 0

#18 mashmaster

mashmaster

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 634 posts

Posted 11 September 2017 - 03:13 PM

Qwazse, what are your thoughts on the POR that require a lot less work and leadership like (Webmaster, Librarian, Historian, Bugler)?   I know they qualify for ranks but how do you get them to do work that really shows leadership for Star, Life


  • 0

#19 ItsBrian

ItsBrian

    Its Who?

  • Members
  • 247 posts

Posted 11 September 2017 - 03:47 PM

Qwazse, what are your thoughts on the POR that require a lot less work and leadership like (Webmaster, Librarian, Historian, Bugler)?   I know they qualify for ranks but how do you get them to do work that really shows leadership for Star, Life


They don’t. I never had any requirement signed off for any of those no Leadership less work positions. I wouldn’t allow the troop to do that.
  • 1

ItsBrian

 


#20 Eagledad

Eagledad

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 6055 posts

Posted 11 September 2017 - 03:54 PM

Qwazse, what are your thoughts on the POR that require a lot less work and leadership like (Webmaster, Librarian, Historian, Bugler)?   I know they qualify for ranks but how do you get them to do work that really shows leadership for Star, Life

I know this is for qwazse, and I look forward to his opinion.

 

The problem with positions like Webmaster, librarian, historian and bugler is that many units have very few expectations for those positions to hold scouts accountable. Without accountability, there is little growth or learning.

 

For a position to have value in the big picture of the whole program, it needs to have value in contributing to the whole program. If scouts don't see themselves contributing to the big picture, then likely the position isn't really required in the program. Our PLC voted to end the bugler position. It was a sad day for the traditional side of me, but the practical side of me agreed.

 

So, for any position to have values (expectations) in the troop, the SM needs to arrange a concept of skills and habits that develops growth in the scouts behavior (character, fitness, and citizenship). Then those expectations can be given to the scout when he gets the new position so that he and the mentor are on the same page. The mentor doesn't have to be the SM, or even and adult. I developed our JASMs to mentor first year scouts in the Grub Master and Cheer Master position. A good PL is also a good mentor as well. We used those positions to start new scouts in the habits of communication with the patrol to develop menus and skits for the monthly campouts. The mentors guided the scouts in how to communication, and researching for new ideas.

 

The BSA doesn't do a good job of teaching adults that PORs are more about developing character than advancing stature. But if the SM can focus on the character part, the stature part naturally follows.

 

By the way, like quazse, I pushed service projects as a great way to get leadership experience. I didn't give them POR credit, but it was a great way to get noticed by the older scouts for future leadership. 

 

Barry


  • 2

"Experience is the hardest teacher. It gives the test first, then the lesson."





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users