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Proposal : Pioneering Certification

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#21 HelpfulTracks

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 05:46 PM

Not sure what the issue is.   Pioneering is primarily a merit badge, designed for a scout (most are targeted at a 12 year old) to experience.   Not sure how setting up a training program is going to drive a need to go higher, bigger, etc.   High COPE elements by design need to meet ACCT standards for design, installation and operations.  Asking laymen to do something like this is actively discouraged.    Please see the COPE section of the GTSS.  

 

And if you would like to review the risk assessment documentation (found in 680-009 http://scouting.org/...pdf/680-009.pdfor 680-026 http://www.scouting....df/680-026.pdf) on your own you will also find out that relying on training and procedures is low on the hierachy of controls.   Wouldn't really be applicable to the OP vision of success that would be training.           

 

I have been rather busy and not able to reply as quickly as I would have liked, but this thread seems to have taken on a life of it's own.

 

@RichardB  - Pioneering is not primarily merit badge, it is an activity. An activity that excites Scouts and gets/keeps them engaged. Is camping primarily a merit badge? Is first aid? Is citizenship, orienteering, hiking etc.?

 

It is also disappointing to see the concept that we are programming most merit badges to be targeted to 12 a year old, it is no wonder we are loosing our older Scouts if that is the path that has been chosen.

 

I am not looking for training to drive higher, bigger pioneering. I am listening to our Scouts who want to build higher and bigger, and looking to create training that will meet their needs while maintaining an environment that meets reasonable safety guidelines.

 

As for laymen, I have run into some very capable laymen in Scouting, including engineers, project manager, construction foremen, military officers and more.

 

Thank you for the documentation, but I would argue that based on that documentation the idea of training Scouters is very much a part of the ERM program is advocating.

 

 

 Eagle dude, please enlighten me I'm interested to know where you found such designs in the program of the BSA?   Really, not joking - I'd like to know.   

 

Now your examples appear to be from accross the pond.  And several, have some pretty significant fall exposure.   Opinion, they wouldn't have made it past a risk assessment by a competent or qualified group.  If your not familiar, Scouting in the UK requires a written risk assessment for all activities.    In some parts of the US those structures could be considered amusement devices, many of which would require state licensing and inspection.  Not sure they would pass that test either.  

 

I'd also wonder where did all that base material come from.  Most camps I'm familiar with really wouldn't want folks choping down trees to make a pioneer project each week from their natural resources.   

 

Finally, the folks gearing up for the WSJ have some great risk assessment tools and staff who know how to use them.  Very confident there is a plan.      

 

Materials are actually very easy to find.  Twice in the last 6 months people that know my involvement in Scouting have offered material that was being cleared for construction.

 

I would also be curious what is different in UK Scouting is in regards to pioneering. Since they too are doing risk assessments but are still appear to be building structures that we are asking about, what is different? Are they experiencing significantly more injuries and deaths, are they training Scouters to do assessments and mitigation? Are they ignoring their own rules?

 

Folks, it's 2017.   Not 1937 or 1996.   The program of the BSA is updated from time to time.    The OP has been asked and answered, if YOU would like to build these giant devices, feel free to do so, but please don't call it Scouting.   

 

BSA program is updated from time to time. Here are Scouters asking for an update in training programs.

 

BSA trains Scouters for COPE, shooting sports, swimming sports, and more. They are embracing ATV riding and pistol shooting. Clearly there are larger structures that CAN be built with the proper assessments, what I am talking about is expanding, through training, to teach and certify Scouters in the technical issues of sound pioneering, to do quality risk assessments and mitigation.


Edited by RememberSchiff, 31 August 2017 - 06:22 PM.
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#22 gumbymaster

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 08:39 AM

@HelpfulTracks

 

I screwed up my click and accidentally down voted you.

Mods, is there any way to un-downvote or change a vote?


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#23 RememberSchiff

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 09:03 AM

@HelpfulTracks

 

I screwed up my click and accidentally down voted you.

Mods, is there any way to un-downvote or change a vote?

 

Unfortunately no.  IMO, the buttons should be larger and further apart, say the size of the avatar. 


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#24 ItsBrian

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 09:24 AM

@HelpfulTracks
 

I screwed up my click and accidentally down voted you.
Mods, is there any way to un-downvote or change a vote?


I’ve done that like 5 times today atleast, really should be further apart.
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ItsBrian

 


#25 HelpfulTracks

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 02:43 PM

Lol, no worries guys. I don't live and die by my up or down votes. But I appreciate your concern non the less.


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