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#1 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 11:01 AM

Ok, what is the official term for the subgroups in a Venturing Crew?

 

I know in a Boy Scout troop it is a patrol.

 

In Sea Scouts it is a crew still.

 

In Cub Scouts it is a den.

 

But I cannot recall what it is called in Venturing.

 

Thanks in advance.

 


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#2 qwazse

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 11:14 AM

We don't need no stinking official sub-group terms! We're subversive enough as it is.

 

Generally, we appoint activity chairs according to the things they want to do. Then groups form around their preferred activity. (So, for example, for a while we had a Philmont Contingent, a Seabase Contingent, and a general interest group.)

 

Lately, it's been rare that we've had membership large enough to subdivide.


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#3 Col. Flagg

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 11:16 AM

I am not aware of a patrol-like organization. Below is how most Crews I know are structured

 

I guess the closest thing we have are the officers which functions like a PLC. We have committees from time to time which basically meet to organize events and such, but they are not like patrols. 

 

Of course, we are small (16-20) so maybe larger Crews are organized like patrols but I have never seen that.

 

Venturing-crew2.gif


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#4 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 11:32 AM

We don't need no stinking official sub-group terms! We're subversive enough as it is.

 

 

I thought the response was suppose to be the following;

 

Subgroups? SUBGROUPS! WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING SUBGROUPS!  :)

 

Seriously though, trying to use the proper terminology for a camporee guide.Trying to include the 1 or 2 crews in the other district. Despite the green shirts hanging in my closet, it's been a while since I was active with a crew. Even then, I don't recall any specific terminology.


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#5 qwazse

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 11:50 AM

I thought the response was suppose to be the following;

 

Subgroups? SUBGROUPS! WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING SUBGROUPS!  :)

 

Seriously though, trying to use the proper terminology for a camporee guide.Trying to include the 1 or 2 crews in the other district. Despite the green shirts hanging in my closet, it's been a while since I was active with a crew. Even then, I don't recall any specific terminology.

Oh, they need subgroups. Just not a one-size-fits-all chart.

 

The venturers who I've seen attend camporees will probably form patrols if your program requires it. (E.g. Klondike derbies.)

 

Really, the only way I can see you crack this nut is to talk to the advisors or presidents of those crews and find out how they operate.


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#6 Col. Flagg

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 11:52 AM

Seriously though, trying to use the proper terminology for a camporee guide.Trying to include the 1 or 2 crews in the other district. Despite the green shirts hanging in my closet, it's been a while since I was active with a crew. Even then, I don't recall any specific terminology.

 

Try this for help.

 

Just call them crews. They will split up as needed and just call themselves C3344a and C3344b, and so on.


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#7 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 11:56 AM

Try this for help.

 

Just call them crews. They will split up as needed and just call themselves C3344a and C3344b, and so on.

 

Thanks for the link.

 

Wish National BSA would state something like this for troops:

 

"An adult is called a " Venturing Advisor ", not Venture or Venturer leader.

  • Note: avoid referring to "Adult Advisors" as "Adult Leaders", as Venturing is a youth-led program."

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#8 Col. Flagg

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 12:12 PM

 

Thanks for the link.

 

Wish National BSA would state something like this for troops:

 

"An adult is called a " Venturing Advisor ", not Venture or Venturer leader.

  • Note: avoid referring to "Adult Advisors" as "Adult Leaders", as Venturing is a youth-led program."

 

 

I think it is just habit. My district always says "Scouters" and the Venturing Advisors follow along because we know they mean us. Heck, I suspect a large portion of the advisors have a khaki shirt or two in the closet, so they are just like you and me.

 

Most troops that also have crews I *think* have learned the terminology. In the end I think the crews and advisors are easy-going enough to know that "units\troops\patrols" also mean "crews" and "Scouters" mean "Venturing Advisors". 

 

I like Venturing for that reason... it is far more laid back than Boy Scouting.


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#9 qwazse

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 02:44 PM

I think it is just habit. My district always says "Scouters" and the Venturing Advisors follow along because we know they mean us. Heck, I suspect a large portion of the advisors have a khaki shirt or two in the closet, so they are just like you and me.

 

Most troops that also have crews I *think* have learned the terminology. In the end I think the crews and advisors are easy-going enough to know that "units\troops\patrols" also mean "crews" and "Scouters" mean "Venturing Advisors". 

 

I like Venturing for that reason... it is far more laid back than Boy Scouting.

We are scouters. I think that was nailed down when venturing started having contingents at Jambo.

 

What's cool is some of our venturers, by virtue of being young adult staff or ASMs, etc ... are also scouters.

 

We are indeed laid back. Which resolves some communication problems and causes others.


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#10 RememberSchiff

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 02:48 PM

Ok, what is the official term for the subgroups in a Venturing Crew?

 

A mutiny?  :)


Edited by RememberSchiff, 05 July 2017 - 02:48 PM.

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#11 TAHAWK

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 03:02 PM

We have had three Venturers (< 18) as staff for Scoutmaster training this Summer at Camp.  Look!  Youth being leaders, 

 

Dictionary

"'Scouter'   an adult leader in the Boy Scouts of America."

 

BSA

"SCOUTERA registered adult member of the Boy Scouts of America who serves in a volunteer or professional capacity.”  BSA, The Language of Scouting (2017)

http://www.scouting....aspx#def-head-s

 

I like BSA's definition better.


Edited by TAHAWK, 05 July 2017 - 03:03 PM.

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#12 Stosh

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 08:13 PM

When I was Venturing Advisor for a reenactment group of Venturing Scouts they were broken down into 2 basic groups... Damnyankies (yes, all one word) and Seccesh Traitors depending on what uniform they happen to be wearing at the time.


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#13 Back Pack

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 07:21 AM

I think Venturing Advisor WAS the BSA definition. ;)
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#14 Col. Flagg

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 08:28 AM

We are scouters. I think that was nailed down when venturing started having contingents at Jambo.

 

What's cool is some of our venturers, by virtue of being young adult staff or ASMs, etc ... are also scouters.

 

We are indeed laid back. Which resolves some communication problems and causes others.

 

I like the "Advisor" term, to be honest. It is more accurate as to my role as an adult "leader"; just as a good Scoutmaster, using the Patrol Method, is more an advisor than "master" of Scouts. ;)


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#15 qwazse

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 02:27 PM

I think Venturing Advisor WAS the BSA definition. ;)

 

I like the "Advisor" term, to be honest. It is more accurate as to my role as an adult "leader"; just as a good Scoutmaster, using the Patrol Method, is more an advisor than "master" of Scouts. ;)

Sometimes,I think venturing youth should be called Advisormasters! :confused:

Honestly I don't care as long as they don't call me late for dinner (especially considering what good cooks some of my officers have been).

 

I think "scoutmaster" was not intended to mean "master of scouts" so much as it was intended to mean "master of scout skills." I suspect some people prefer the former definition, because if they accept the latter, they would have to bear the brunt of ridicule from guys like me when they fail to tie a timber hitch!


Edited by qwazse, 06 July 2017 - 02:41 PM.

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#16 Col. Flagg

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 03:18 PM

I think "scoutmaster" was not intended to mean "master of scouts" so much as it was intended to mean "master of scout skills." I suspect some people prefer the former definition, because if they accept the latter, they would have to bear the brunt of ridicule from guys like me when they fail to tie a timber hitch!

 

Many leaders don't have the skills their first years are supposed to have. Sad.

 

Side Note: I read today in Scouting Magazine about the first Eagle's EBOR. He had Beard, Seton, West and Wilbur Longfellow (ARC luminary) on his EBOR. B-P he'd met the day before and was in town. Talk about "pucker factor". ;) He had to demonstrate all these skills and the deliberation for the award took over a month. He was 17!!

 

And we have kids (and parents) today who complain about "re-testing".  ;)


Edited by Col. Flagg, 06 July 2017 - 03:19 PM.

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#17 TAHAWK

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 04:38 PM

Sometimes,I think venturing youth should be called Advisormasters! :confused:

Honestly I don't care as long as they don't call me late for dinner (especially considering what good cooks some of my officers have been).

 

I think "scoutmaster" was not intended to mean "master of scouts" so much as it was intended to mean "master of scout skills." I suspect some people prefer the former definition, because if they accept the latter, they would have to bear the brunt of ridicule from guys like me when they fail to tie a timber hitch!

BP called them "officers," and today the title is "Group Scout Leader" - who still appoints the patrol leaders as in BP's day.  Thus, at least, the "Patrol System" differs from the "Patrol Method."


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