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Webelos khaki uniform question


Best Answer ScoutTN , 06 July 2017 - 04:39 PM

Thanks for the additional replies. As I mentioned upthread, I am familiar with what the official BSA guidelines say.

 

I also know the pros and cons of Badge Magic vs. sewing. I have an older child in another scouting organization, so btdt. Not soliciting advice on that issue. 

 

We left his blue shirt intact. Never had any intention of taking his Bear and Bobcat badges off that. 

I got the khaki shirt from a friend, and it fits him with enough room for both Webelos years, but not likely beyond. It too will remain as a keepsake, after he crosses over to the troop.

 

For now he will go with an empty left pocket and we'll wait to see what his Cubmaster says. I like the oval webelos patch.  

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#1 ScoutTN

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 02:54 PM

New here. Only our second year in scouting. Please redirect me if this belongs on another sub-forum. 

 

Ds is a Web1 and headed to resident camp next week. Our pack Webs wear the khaki shirt.

Got his uniform this week and the pockets are pleated and fasten with velcro, not a button. So the plastic bagde holder won't work. (I don't like those much anyway.) He has a Bobcat and a Bear rank patches to go on the left pocket, but the Bear one won't fit without overlapping the edge of the pocket, which is not flush with the rest of the shirt. Poplin shirt, not microfiber. 

 

How do I put the rank badges on? Underlap the pocket flap a bit to make them both fit? Allow the Bear patch to hang off the edge of the pocket? 

 

He will get his Webelos rank in February and I think we will go to the oval patch to simplify. Because of the change, I will likely sew rather than use badge magic. 

 

Thanks for the help! 

 

 


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#2 RememberSchiff

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 03:18 PM

@ScoutTN  welcome to scouter.com


Edited by RememberSchiff, 04 July 2017 - 03:19 PM.

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#3 T2Eagle

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 03:56 PM

http://www.scouting....ut_Insignia.pdf

Here is the official insignia page. I would have the bear overlap the pocket, and I would sew right through the pocket and give up any pretense that he's ever going to actually put anything in that pocket.

Edited by T2Eagle, 04 July 2017 - 03:57 PM.

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#4 The Latin Scot

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 04:27 PM

If a Webelos Scout wears the khaki uniform, he does NOT wear his past rank patches as he would on the blue uniform. That practice does not carry over to the khaki-and-olive; rather, that pocket is left alone until he earns his Webelos rank,  at which point he wears the OVAL, khaki Webelos rank patch, not the blue diamond-shaped one. Then, when he earns his Arrow of Light, that patch is placed under his left pocket, and remains there throughout the rest of his youth Scouting career. That Webelos rank patch is later replaced with his Scout rank patch soon after crossing over (very soon if his Webelos leaders did their jobs right). 

 

The uniform he wears determines the patches that are worn with it; since he has the khaki uniform, he automatically wears the oval patch and forgoes the wearing of his past patches (which I have found ends up saving parents a lot of trouble as they switch over uniforms!)  As a Webelos Den Leader myself, I usually recommend the switch, along with the counsel to get the uniform a bit large so that the boy has room to grown into it.  ;)

 

Hope this helps! And welcome to the forums!


Edited by The Latin Scot, 04 July 2017 - 04:33 PM.

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There is no such word as "Webelo." 

The only proper singular of Webelos Scouts is ... WEBELOS SCOUT!  


#5 ScoutTN

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 07:54 AM

http://www.scouting....ut_Insignia.pdf

Here is the official insignia page. I would have the bear overlap the pocket, and I would sew right through the pocket and give up any pretense that he's ever going to actually put anything in that pocket.

 

Thanks for the idea! That would work fine.

 

I have the official info page. It didn't answer my question because it doesn't address the shirts with the deeper pockets. 


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#6 ScoutTN

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 07:57 AM

If a Webelos Scout wears the khaki uniform, he does NOT wear his past rank patches as he would on the blue uniform. That practice does not carry over to the khaki-and-olive; rather, that pocket is left alone until he earns his Webelos rank,  at which point he wears the OVAL, khaki Webelos rank patch, not the blue diamond-shaped one. Then, when he earns his Arrow of Light, that patch is placed under his left pocket, and remains there throughout the rest of his youth Scouting career. That Webelos rank patch is later replaced with his Scout rank patch soon after crossing over (very soon if his Webelos leaders did their jobs right). 

 

The uniform he wears determines the patches that are worn with it; since he has the khaki uniform, he automatically wears the oval patch and forgoes the wearing of his past patches (which I have found ends up saving parents a lot of trouble as they switch over uniforms!)  As a Webelos Den Leader myself, I usually recommend the switch, along with the counsel to get the uniform a bit large so that the boy has room to grown into it.  ;)

 

Hope this helps! And welcome to the forums!

 

 

Thanks. Your answer makes sense, but conflicts with the official info page and the info that came from the scout store with his uniform. 


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#7 deanofmac

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 08:03 AM

There are three different ways to have the left pocket, according to the guide. We chose the Large Webelos badge for my boys. Looks better, at least to our den. The boys decided.


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#8 Stosh

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 08:16 AM

deanofmac's recommendation makes sense.  As long as all the boys do the same thing (pick the easiest) no one will even know the difference.


Edited by Stosh, 05 July 2017 - 08:16 AM.

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#9 qwazse

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 09:00 AM

@ScoutTN, welcome to the forum!

 

I'm pretty picky about uniforming, but I got nothing! I'd go with Stosh's suggestion about the boys in the den picking what works best for them (and their parents who might be teaching them to sew patches -- hint hint :) ).

 

I am strongly opinionated against badge magic. It can ruin a good shirt for the scout to whom it would be handed down. So there's that, if it helps.


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#10 The Latin Scot

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 11:42 AM

Thanks. Your answer makes sense, but conflicts with the official info page and the info that came from the scout store with his uniform. 

The people who work at the Scout store are not uniform experts, nor do their opinions reflect official BSA standards. At my Scout store they are often wrong when people ask them various uniforming questions. The Official Guide to Awards and Insignia makes it clear that the wearing of past Cub Scout rank patches in the traditional diamond pattern is allowed on the blue uniform, but NOT on the khaki. The only rank patches a Webelos Scout can wear on the khaki shirt are the oval Webelos rank patch and the Arrow of Light. This is also confirmed in the Webelos Handbook, which is about as clear and official as you can get.

 

While your unit may have "voted' to continue to wear the earlier rank patches on the khaki uniforms, it is technically incorrect uniforming, and in my mind there is no need to do so anyway - the new uniform is indication enough of their progression through the ranks, and there is no point in wearing the earlier patches. The boys of Webelos Scout age should be looking ahead to their new and upcoming Boy Scout journey, not stuck looking backwards to their younger days. If you choose to wear the past rank patches on the khaki uniform anyway, that is your choice, but know that it is improper uniforming, and technically goes against BSA uniforming policy. And isn't following directions a big part of what Cub Scouts are being taught to do? Better to let the sharp new uniform make its own statement, and wait for the proper oval Webelos rank patch to embellish it correctly.  ;)


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There is no such word as "Webelo." 

The only proper singular of Webelos Scouts is ... WEBELOS SCOUT!  


#11 deanofmac

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 12:04 PM

We voted back in the day on Webelos patches. It's been a while... :-) Is the Cub Scout Insignia guide linked above old? It shows the options on the pocket. Not stirring the pot here, just observing.


Edited by deanofmac, 05 July 2017 - 12:08 PM.

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Dean Roberts

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..and a Staffer too! C3-133-14 and C3-133-16


#12 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 12:23 PM

The people who work at the Scout store are not uniform experts, nor do their opinions reflect official BSA standards. At my Scout store they are often wrong when people ask them various uniforming questions. The Official Guide to Awards and Insignia makes it clear that the wearing of past Cub Scout rank patches in the traditional diamond pattern is allowed on the blue uniform, but NOT on the khaki. The only rank patches a Webelos Scout can wear on the khaki shirt are the oval Webelos rank patch and the Arrow of Light. This is also confirmed in the Webelos Handbook, which is about as clear and official as you can get.

 

With all do respect, if the Scout Shop is owned by National, then they would be the experts as they are required to know the uniforms regs and how to get the answers from the The Official Guide to Awards and Insignia. Trust me, I worked for National Supply once upon a time, and that is something they were adamant about: providinf correct information.

 

Also Page 16 of the The Official Guide to Awards and Insignia state that the traditional  rank diamond: Bobcat, Wolf, Bear, and Webelos is still allowed on both the blue and tan shirts. page 2 of the link above shows that the diamond i sallowed on both blue and tan.  Only the Webelos Oval is not allowed on the blue shirt.


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#13 SouthernTierScouter

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 12:25 PM

Part of the confusion is I think from The Latin Scot's post is he sort of has it backwards. You can ONLY wear the oval patch on the Tan shirt, but you can wear all the other patches on the Tan Shirt. So you should never see a Webelos still in his blue shirt with the oval patch.

 

Personally I prefer to leave the pocket blank until they earn the Webelos rank, then put that oval patch on.

 

 

2015 Printing, can't find a newer one.: https://www.scoutstu...nif_InspFNL.pdf

 

"Webelos Scouts have the option of wearing the oval-shaped Webelos badge by itself on the tan shirt only; or the diamond-shaped Webelos emblem along with other rank badges on either the tan or navy blue shirt; or if the Tiger Cub emblem was earned, the Webelos diamond-shaped emblem may be worn on either the tan or navy blue shirt by itself and centered on the left pocket."

 

 


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#14 The Latin Scot

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 12:40 PM

With all do respect, if the Scout Shop is owned by National, then they would be the experts as they are required to know the uniforms regs and how to get the answers from the The Official Guide to Awards and Insignia. Trust me, I worked for National Supply once upon a time, and that is something they were adamant about: providinf correct information.

 

No special respect due; the fact is my friend worked at a Scout Store for years and he was never required to be an expert on uniforming (good thing because he never was, bless his heart). And when the lady who supervises all the stores in my area can't even remember which Scouting roles wear which colored epaulet loops, I'm afraid I can't agree with you. In my Scout Shop they get things wrong all the time, as they do in the Regional Shop as well. A Scout Shop employee is just not going to be a reliable expert on uniforming, nor do their opinions necessarily reflect national policy. The best bet is to look at the official publications or ask somebody whose opinions you can trust.

 

On that note, I do see to my shock that the Official Guide does in fact authorize the diamond rank emblems on the blue shirt. Twist! This is not the same as what is printed in the Webelos Den Leader's Manual, nor in the Webelos Handbook (I just reviewed them this morning to be sure). But as that is the case, I rescind my previous statement and grant that they can opt for the rank diamond option if they please. My apologies for being wrong; still, in my Den we are sticking with blue on blue and tan on tan, and never the twain shall meet! Less sewing for my parents.  ;)


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There is no such word as "Webelo." 

The only proper singular of Webelos Scouts is ... WEBELOS SCOUT!  


#15 SouthernTierScouter

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 12:46 PM

It does appear they simplified it both the Webelos Handbook and the Webelos Leader Handbook. Probably to, well, you know, make it simpler for Scouts, parents and new leaders. 


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#16 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 12:49 PM

We voted back in the day on Webelos patches. It's been a while... :-) Is the Cub Scout Insignia guide linked above old? It shows the options on the pocket. Not stirring the pot here, just observing.

 

 

Most current

 

No special respect due; the fact is my friend worked at a Scout Store for years and he was never required to be an expert on uniforming (good thing because he never was, bless his heart). And when the lady who supervises all the stores in my area can't even remember which Scouting roles wear which colored epaulet loops, I'm afraid I can't agree with you. In my Scout Shop they get things wrong all the time, as they do in the Regional Shop as well. A Scout Shop employee is just not going to be a reliable expert on uniforming, nor do their opinions necessarily reflect national policy. The best bet is to look at the official publications or ask somebody whose opinions you can trust.

 

WOW. A lot has changed since I worked for National Supply. Heck a lot has changed since 2009 when I last needed advice from a National Scout Shop. My old manager expected us to know the Insignia Guide as it was called then so that we could answer questions. If we didn't know the answer it went up the food chain. I remember the boss calling her boss, the associate director for Southern Region, to get an answer to a question one time!

 

Then again, upon reflection maybeI should not be surprised.  I've had some "challenges" with national supply folks who had no concept or expereince in the program.

 

On that note, I do see to my shock that the Official Guide does in fact authorize the diamond rank emblems on the blue shirt. Twist! This is not the same as what is printed in the Webelos Den Leader's Manual, nor in the Webelos Handbook (I just reviewed them this morning to be sure). But as that is the case, I rescind my previous statement and grant that they can opt for the rank diamond option if they please. My apologies for being wrong; still, in my Den we are sticking with blue on blue and tan on tan, and never the twain shall meet! Less sewing for my parents.  ;)

 

No worries. IMHO that's another example of the left hand at national not knowing what the right hand is doing.


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#17 ScoutTN

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 01:15 PM

There are three different ways to have the left pocket, according to the guide. We chose the Large Webelos badge for my boys. Looks better, at least to our den. The boys decided.

 

Yes, I've read the official info, both on the website and from the handout the Scout store people gave me. The official info didn't answer my original question. That's why I asked here.  :cool:

 

Thanks for all the replies! Nice to see such an active board. 

He needs a uniform shirt for camp Monday. First Pack meeting for this coming year is not til late August and Den meeting a week after that. 

I have emailed the Cubmaster. 

 

Thinking I will send him to camp without any rank insignia on his shirt and we'll figure it out in August. All the rest is on the shirt and he has a hat, slide and neckerchief. Good enough! 

 

P.S. This board uses the same format as a couple others I know. Y'all need more fun emojis! Surely someone has made some funny scouting emojis?! 


Edited by ScoutTN, 05 July 2017 - 01:30 PM.

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#18 Cleveland Rocks

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 01:42 PM

The problem with the diamond patches arises for those that have been in it since Tiger Cubs, as the Tiger Cub diamond badge is in the same position that the Webelos diamond badge goes.  I've always instructed my Webelos families when upgrading to the tan shirt to leave their previous diamond patches on the blue shirt, and they'll get the oval Webelos badge when he's earned it.

 

I point out to the families that they may certainly transfer the badges from the blue shirt to the tan if they wish, but they will have a dilemma to deal with when it comes time to get the Webelos badge, because you'd have to (a) remove the Tiger Cub badge in order to put the diamond Webelos badge on (nearly all the Cubs I've worked with have been in it since Tigers), (b) remove all the diamond badges you just put on to put on a diamond Webelos badge (I don't recommend this, and I only buy diamond badges for those still in the blue uniforms), or © have a blank pocket to begin with and put the oval Webelos badge on.

 

I would recommend leaving the pocket blank and when he earns the Webelos badge, he'll get an oval one to go there, and when he later earns the Arrow of Light, it'll go beneath the pocket.  Much, much easier to deal with. Plus, he'll still have his blue shirt with his previous badges on them as a memento. Now, while you don't fall into this situation, as your son hasn't been in since Tigers, I'd still follow this practice.  The tan shirt isn't designed for the diamond Cub Scout badges, and even though the Insignia Guide says you can wear them, it will have overlap off the pocket and will definitely look funny once you get them on.


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#19 Stosh

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 08:03 PM

I would think (being a basically lazy person myself) that taking off all those diamond patches just to sew on the new tan one is kinda sewing overkill.  Take the blue shirt, pack it away with all the patches in the scout's memorabilia bin and start fresh with a new tan (2 sizes too big) and wait for the Webelos patch.  Once they get the AOL bar, then sew that on.  Then one only has to take off the Webelos patch and replace with scout rank as he earns them.  Far simpler in the long run.

 

Like qwazse mentions DON"T DO THE BADGE MAGIC thing.  Obviously as the boy progresses, he will need to be able to take off the old badge and put the new one on.  Learn to sew, it's not all that hard and if it's not on perfectly straight, it tells me 1) he's sewed it himself or 2) his mother can't sew either.  I always opt for #1.  :)  Yes, I have taught scouts to sew, it's not all that hard.


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#20 ScoutTN

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 04:39 PM   Best Answer

Thanks for the additional replies. As I mentioned upthread, I am familiar with what the official BSA guidelines say.

 

I also know the pros and cons of Badge Magic vs. sewing. I have an older child in another scouting organization, so btdt. Not soliciting advice on that issue. 

 

We left his blue shirt intact. Never had any intention of taking his Bear and Bobcat badges off that. 

I got the khaki shirt from a friend, and it fits him with enough room for both Webelos years, but not likely beyond. It too will remain as a keepsake, after he crosses over to the troop.

 

For now he will go with an empty left pocket and we'll wait to see what his Cubmaster says. I like the oval webelos patch.  


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