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Be careful out there!


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#1 Stosh

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 09:37 AM

http://www.ksl.com/?...4865739&nid=148

 

https://www.ksl.com/...t-at-scout-camp

 

And this is just one news site in Utah.  What else is going on that isn't making big news?


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#2 Oldscout448

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 10:13 AM

A scout from Jefferson MD fell while rock climbing at Philmont a few days ago.  Dont know how badly he was hurt, but our district facebook asked everyone for prayers, so that does not sound like a minor injury


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#3 mashmaster

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 10:43 AM

It is scary for sure.  Yesterday on our return from camp I was in the lead truck with the trailer and the wind blew the vehicle and trailer into the guard rail for the median.  Thankfully for us only minor damage occurred and we were able to fix it.  But it could have been very bad.  I know that my heart was racing after that.

 

My condolences to the families and troop involved.  


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#4 qwazse

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 12:17 PM

Mash, glad you are still around to talk about it,

We can count on racking up some numbers this month thanks to Jambo.

Every accident is important and worth noting.

Frankly, I wish BSA's annual report would have something about the risks of scouting. We could do better in informing on risks.

On the other hand, lacking comparisons to risks of not scouting (e.g., kids fall out of trees often, sometimes far from rescue), it's hard to tell if we're doing much better.


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#5 Back Pack

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 01:29 PM

Sounds like too much trailer for an old truck and going too fast.
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#6 Oldscout448

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 02:22 PM

Sounds like too much trailer for an old truck and going too fast.

Maybe and maybe not .  The wind in Texas can be fearsome at times.  


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#7 Back Pack

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 03:59 PM

Maybe and maybe not . The wind in Texas can be fearsome at times.

I live here. I know. Wind could be a cause. But a 34ft trailer and a Excursion sound a mismatch. Also, no other big rig accidents on that road or others so winds may not be the cause. We shall see what the investigation yields.

Edited by Back Pack, 02 July 2017 - 04:08 PM.

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#8 SpEdScouter

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 05:17 PM

All those accidents could have happened anywhere and actually when you think about it, with the case of falling out of a tree at least with BS there were people nearby with first aid experience and able to summon help quickly.


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#9 Stosh

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 06:51 PM

If some folks thing its great to climb to great heights and they are not under my responsibility, they can fall off cliffs and out of trees all they want.  Not on my watch.  #1 rule: Safety First.

 

I was berated for 3 days on a scouting cross country trip by the SM for not caravanning according to his standards while he drove 10 over the speed limit pulling a double axle cargo trailer loaded with scout equipment with a Dodge Ramcharger and four scouts.

 

1)  I don't speed.

2) BSA policy prohibits caracanning.

3) I don't want to witness an accident.

 

It was within 2 months I found another troop.

 

The best medicine is prevention.  While we call them "accidents" they really aren't.  And by the way, there are limits to First Aid.  No amount of training is going to make up for no pulse.


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#10 Back Pack

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 07:38 PM

Does bsa policy prohibit caravaning? I thought if you followed at a safe distance and obeyed the traffic laws it would be safer.
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#11 T2Eagle

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 07:46 PM

Does bsa policy prohibit caravaning? I thought if you followed at a safe distance and obeyed the traffic laws it would be safer.

It used to be in the GTSA, then it moved to the Tour and Activity Plan. Not sure where it is now. The essence of it is that if you are trying to stay in one position in relation to one or several other vehicles you will drive in a way that is not that expected or predicted by other drivers, and that is the surest way to end up in or causing an accident.
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#12 Back Pack

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 07:55 PM

It used to be in the GTSA, then it moved to the Tour and Activity Plan. Not sure where it is now. The essence of it is that if you are trying to stay in one position in relation to one or several other vehicles you will drive in a way that is not that expected or predicted by other drivers, and that is the surest way to end up in or causing an accident.

It's not on the GTSS or the recently updated driving guide, nor on the bsa transportation page. Maybe it was a rule at one time but doesn't look like it now.

I'd argue that as long as you follow the law driving as a group allows you to render aid faster. If one adjusts their driving in a caravan style and violates the laws, they're not doing it safely. Follow the laws and a caravan type system works just fine.

Edited by Back Pack, 06 July 2017 - 07:57 PM.

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#13 SSScout

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 12:23 PM

There is "Caravaning"   And "Convoying".   

 

The Convoy idea is not necessary and can lead to taking chances unwarranted.  "I havta keep up with the leader!". No, you don't. You have to drive safe and get there in one piece.  The army may "convoy", but we ain't the army. The POTUS may drive thru DC in convoy, but we ain't him.   We do not have that purpose or permission. 

 

 To "caravan" implies the same idea, but to me, it means knowing the route, having some idea of a realistic schedule, and having "meet-up" places along the way, if the destination is some distance away.   It does NOT mean keeping each other's car within eye shot.   It DOES mean driving safely and legally. 

My old Dodge Caravan (four cylinders, 5 speed, 30mpg)  could (and did!) carry 5 Scouts and all their gear to summer camp many times, but it could not (physically!) do over 60mph. At least not uphill....  I told folks I'd meet them there, depend on it, but I wasn't about to feel bad about not getting there earlier....


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#14 Col. Flagg

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 12:58 PM

Seems the trailer became unhinged from the truck. No word for the SHP on why though.


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#15 mashmaster

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 01:45 PM

Seems the trailer became unhinged from the truck. No word for the SHP on why though.

That is a big trailer


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#16 Stosh

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 05:56 PM

IMG_9777.jpg

 

This trailer is 6' shorter than the one in the accident.  Depending on the model of Excursion it can haul 7,200# or 11,000#  But then one must take into consideration the weight and cargo in the tow vehicle.

 

Loaded it would be a beast to haul.  Empty on a windy day would be worse.

 

One cannot tell if the tow vehicle was equipped with an load leveler hitch with anti-sway feature, but an occasional tow vehicle would probably not have that as standard equipment.


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#17 Back Pack

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 07:06 PM

Wasn't it a folding camper? Not an actual storage/haul trailer?
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#18 Stosh

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 09:34 PM

Yep, I went back to the pictures and the trailer seems to be a camper.  34' camper will not have the weight of a fairly loaded cargo trailer and will work like a sail in a cross-wind. 

 

Why does a scouter need a huge camper on a scout activity?


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#19 Back Pack

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 10:11 AM

Our unit keeps a record of everyone's towing capacity and the trailer weight. Everyone has a tow package with all the frillls (load leveler, sway bars, etc). We are also lucky enough to have a dad who owns a car repair business and offers free (or heavily discounted) inspections of vehicles in our unit. That way everyone is as safe as can be vehicle-wise. The rest is up to the driver.
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#20 mashmaster

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 11:06 PM

IMG_9777.jpg

 

This trailer is 6' shorter than the one in the accident.  Depending on the model of Excursion it can haul 7,200# or 11,000#  But then one must take into consideration the weight and cargo in the tow vehicle.

 

Loaded it would be a beast to haul.  Empty on a windy day would be worse.

 

One cannot tell if the tow vehicle was equipped with an load leveler hitch with anti-sway feature, but an occasional tow vehicle would probably not have that as standard equipment.

WOW! That trailer is huge!  How big is your troop?


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