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AOL Crossovers come back to camp with the Pack


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#1 GaG8tr

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 10:28 AM

So AOL Scouts sell popcorn in the Fall to raise funds for activities in the Spring after which they will have crossed over into Boy Scouts.  Is there any rule in the Boy Scouts of America that prevent those crossovers from coming back to participate in Pack activities (specifically camp-outs keeping in mind that we do family camp-outs so one of their family members would be attending as well)?


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#2 RememberSchiff

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 02:16 PM

Welcome to scouter.com


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#3 fred johnson

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 02:46 PM

No rule.  It would be more a unit rule.  If anything, it might be nice to encourage younger scouts to cross over.  

 

By mentioning popcorn sales, are you trying to infer there is a money issue?  


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#4 NJCubScouter

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 02:46 PM

Welcome to the forums, GaG8tr!

 

I know of nothing that would prohibit a just-crossed-over group of Boy Scouts from attending a family camping trip with their old pack.  Perhaps @RichardB would like to weigh in?


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#5 Gwaihir

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 08:12 PM

If they're Boy Scouts, and there is no family in the pack, then they're not going as family, they're going as additional guests.  If there is family involved... then it would technically be family participating in family camp. x
 

I don't think there's a rule against it.  Then again, if this is a practice that's been going on for some time, and you're concerned about money earned that they can't take part in... I would think they too took part in funds the previous year's AOL earned that they didn't use. No?  


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#6 RichardB

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 07:04 AM

Is he the Den Chief now?    

 

Does he have a little brother and want to come along on the pack overnigher or council run family camp (because those are two program options for cub packs)?  

 

An affirmative to either would indicate a reason to have him participate in your hypothetical.  Otherwise - what book is that in and what page are you on that recommends this?  Let's set aside a focus of "rules" and discuss the actual cub scout program.   Since why would you need a rule for something that wasn't in the program.   The alternative thought of the day.   


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#7 NJCubScouter

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 09:24 AM

An affirmative to either would indicate a reason to have him participate in your hypothetical.  Otherwise - what book is that in and what page are you on that recommends this?  Let's set aside a focus of "rules" and discuss the actual cub scout program.   Since why would you need a rule for something that wasn't in the program.   The alternative thought of the day.   

 

Richard, from this and other recent posts of yours, I get the impression that you believe that EVERYTHING that can be done in Scouting is specifically mentioned in an official book somewhere.  That does not seem right to me.  I think local leaders have to be able to make judgment calls about things that are not in "the book" one way or the other, as long as they are keeping in mind the purposes and values of the program.  Or maybe to put it another way, it has to be in the "spirit" of the program even if it is not in a book. To me, allowing former members of the pack who have just crossed over to go on one last camping trip with the pack seems like it is in the "spirit" of the program.


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#8 SSScout

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 09:46 AM

??

Why would ANYONE want to prohibit a Scout from camping with his family?   YP issues aside (always consider them !) , I can't think of a better reason for "crossed over" Scout to come home and camp with his old Pack.  Big Brother Scout, show off some new responsibilities, newly acquired skills (or not!). 

 

Another excuse to go camping.  This is Scouting !   Go Camping !   Money earned thru Popcorn sales are the Units anyway, not a consideration for the Scout.


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#9 MrBob

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 06:43 PM

So AOL Scouts sell popcorn in the Fall to raise funds for activities in the Spring after which they will have crossed over into Boy Scouts. 

 

And these AOL Scouts took advantage of prior year's AOL Scouts who raised funds for the Pack.

 

Is some parent concerned that Little Johnny isn't getting his mom's perceived "fair share" of the Pack's bank account?


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#10 CalicoPenn

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 08:05 PM

Has this been a tradition in your Pack, to invite that year's crossover Pack alumni to join in for one last campout? No official rule against it - it's completely up to you. When was crossover? February? March? Might I make a suggestion? If you're going to do this, think about adding a component to the weekend - kind of an "Okay, boys - you've been in Scouts for a few months now - show us what neat things you've learned" - I see this as an opportunity for the Pack to help encourage the next set of Webelos to cross over. If you've got more than a couple of crossovers attending, try getting them together, even if they aren't in the same Troop or Patrol (they were probably in the same Den and know each other) and encourage them to work together as a temporary Patrol, planning and making their own meals - demonstrating by doing - just what Boy Scouts do.
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#11 SouthernTierScouter

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 01:46 PM

Might be late to the party on this thread but in our pack we do just this. We invite the AoL Scouts back for several events in the spring (which their yearly dues they paid in the fall still cover). Sometime in the summer, generally our big pack picnic is when we cut the ties with those scouts so they can focus on their campouts and events with the Troop. It works great.


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#12 DuctTape

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 06:48 PM

Just another reason why I am a proponent of waiting to join boy scouts until the fall.
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#13 blw2

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 01:48 PM

my only thought is they are no longer registered with the unit.  If they have a little brother still in the pack then they are family....but if not they would be a guest.....

no different I suppose than a girl scout coming along as a guest....

liability concern perhaps?  (that's a real stretch, not a concern)


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#14 SouthernTierScouter

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 09:39 AM

Just another reason why I am a proponent of waiting to join boy scouts until the fall.

 

Me too, we stopped doing spring recruitment, it didn't make sense for our schedule.


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#15 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 10:44 AM

Pack my sons were/are in does Cross Over in the December/Early January time frame.  Some of the reasons for this were financial, other reasons were that the dens tend to be ready to cross over then. So far those dens that do Cross Over in Dec/Jan have had plenty of time to get ready for summer camp. That is a very important thing for me since we can usually keep them interested in Scouting if they go to camp. So far no problems.

 

Den before middle son's Cross Over did so in March, and to another troop. Thankfully that troop is extremely active (multiple weekends per month doing Scouting stuff, including one or two  months with 2 camp outs in them. So that group has had no problems.

 

It's the dens that Cross Over in March or April that concern me. To date some Scouts, usually the ones who visit and camp with the troop prior to Cross Over, are ready for camp, and others are not.

 

An aside. We had two dens from two different troops Cross Over to us this year. My son's den Crossed Over January 2nd. In addition to camping as Boy Scouts, they also did 1 camp out, Wilderness Survival, as Webelos. I have no concerns with them.

 

It's the second den that concerns me. They Crossed Over in late March. part of that was the parents wanted to make the Cross Over a big deal at the council Webeloree. Part of it was that a few of the Webelos had to be "helped" along to complete the requirements. Helicopter parents is an understatement (2 are going to summer camp, 1 and younger brother are going to be in a hotel nearby for Visitor's Night).  Three invitations as Webelos to camp with us over a 20 month period were ignored. And this year at Webeloree, instead of camping with the troop as was done in the past, the parents decided to camp in a different location by themselves. To date the troop has had 2 camp outs (April's was cancelled at the last minute due to a flash flood washing away the road to camp) since this group has crossed over. Out of 9 Scouts, 3 have been on a one camp out. The rest have not camped with the troop at all. Between  not being familiar with the Boy Scouts, the helicopter parents, and not having experience camping, I got some concerns about these guys.


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#16 SouthernTierScouter

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 10:57 AM

Crossing over in January? Those AoL scouts miss out on the Blue and Gold, (typically in Feb-March for most Packs). Are those Scouts of appropriate age? They haven't completed 5th grade yet, so are they 10 earning AoL or are they 11 by that point?

 

Typically we have found our crossing over in March gives the Cubs plenty of time to join the Troop on camp outs before Summer camp in July/August. Not to mention they have already camped with a troop to earn AoL Required Adventure, and our Pack does about 8 camp outs a year as it is, so its no culture shock to our Cubs. 


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#17 Col. Flagg

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 11:02 AM

Crossing over in January? Those AoL scouts miss out on the Blue and Gold, (typically in Feb-March for most Packs). Are those Scouts of appropriate age? They haven't completed 5th grade yet, so are they 10 earning AoL or are they 11 by that point?

 

Typically we have found our crossing over in March gives the Cubs plenty of time to join the Troop on camp outs before Summer camp in July/August. Not to mention they have already camped with a troop to earn AoL Required Adventure, and our Pack does about 8 camp outs a year as it is, so its no culture shock to our Cubs. 

 

In my areas Scouts crossover anywhere between January and March. They still go back for B&G. Since the new requirements for AOL we've seen many Webelos not crossing over until Feb-March, some in April. It just seems to be taking them longer than in the past to complete requirements and cross over.


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#18 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 01:30 PM

Crossing over in January? Those AoL scouts miss out on the Blue and Gold, (typically in Feb-March for most Packs). Are those Scouts of appropriate age? They haven't completed 5th grade yet, so are they 10 earning AoL or are they 11 by that point?

 

Typically we have found our crossing over in March gives the Cubs plenty of time to join the Troop on camp outs before Summer camp in July/August. Not to mention they have already camped with a troop to earn AoL Required Adventure, and our Pack does about 8 camp outs a year as it is, so its no culture shock to our Cubs. 

 

 

We are a traditional pack in that B&G is just a party and not a big extravagant advancement ceremony where everyone gets their awards. So they are not really missing out there. Current AOL requirements state:

 

      1. Be active in your Webelos den for at least six months since completing the fourth grade                                                                    

                or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old. (Being active means having good

                attendance, paying your den dues, and working on den projects.) [emphasis added]

 

So December 1st is the earliest a den can cross over if they met all the other requirements. As active as the pack is, that is not a problem. The one den that decided to wait until March and Webeloree did so because the DL wanted all the Scouts to be the last group to earn all 20 of the old Activity Badges.

 

Regarding the OUTDOORSMAN Adventure Badge (formerly known as CAMPER Adventure Badge, camping is not required to earn that anymore. You have the option of camping, or doing an outdoor activity.  Same option applies for Scouting Adventure: troop campout or other outdoor activity. DL signed off because they did either Scouting for Food or Memorial Day service projects with us.


Edited by Eagle94-A1, 29 June 2017 - 01:49 PM.

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#19 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 01:58 PM

In my areas Scouts crossover anywhere between January and March. They still go back for B&G. Since the new requirements for AOL we've seen many Webelos not crossing over until Feb-March, some in April. It just seems to be taking them longer than in the past to complete requirements and cross over.

 

Some packs are still trying to get all the awards done by B&G. That idea, B&G being the big advancement night, really didn't come about until the 1990s and Cub Scout program  expanding from 3 Years to 4 or 5 years ( sorry do not remember when Tiger Cubs were officially integrated into packs) When Cub Scouts dropped from 3rd grade to 2nd, and Webelos went from a 1 year program to an 18-24 month program, all the hoopla started with B&G and advancement.

 

What is interesting is that there was enough complaint about June 2015 Cub Scout requirements taking so long to complete, that national in December 2016 changed the requirements for all the adventures and some of the ranks, Didn't really affect Middle son's den as they only one or two items to do to finish. But the DL from other pack we got Scouts from decided to use the new, simpler requirements for those Webelos who would not be earning the AOL either in time for Webeloree, or at all.


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#20 SouthernTierScouter

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 08:35 AM

I like the shorter requirements, it allows us more time to do things without worrying about checking items off the list. We can focus on things the boys like, and skip some that just doesn't work for us. It also helps us to hit our advancement goal of the B&G in the middle of March. I just couldn't see crossing over in January, regardless of advancement, those scouts are still fairly young. A few extra months being the top dogs around the pack can help build that confidence before they join the troop where they are the little kids again. Sure its only a few months, but a few months at that age seems to mean a lot.

 

Luckily we all have some leeway with things to make what is best for us work for us (within the bounds of the rules). 


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