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Outside Magazine: Boy Scouts Should Allow Girls


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#1 RememberSchiff

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 02:02 PM

Outside Magazine, Jun 12, 2017

The Boys Scouts Should Allow Girls (And Everyone Else, Too)

The BSA's latest policies are a step toward including other genders. Inclusiveness can't come soon enough.

By Wes Siler

 

I'm an Eagle Scout, a Brotherhood member of the Order of the Arrow, a former Assistant Scout Master, and an all-round proponent of one of the greatest outdoors leadership program the world has ever seen: the Boy Scouts of America. But, I’m also citizen of 2017, and someone who acts on the belief that the outdoors belong to everyone, regardless of which gender they’re born with, who they’re attracted to, how much money they have, or the color of their skin. Finally, the BSA is slowly coming to that belief, too.

...

Read that list of famous people who are Eagle Scouts again. While impressive, it’s also homogenous. Do many people today want to become a Scout because Jeff Sessions was one?

...

 

Find the rest at

https://www.outsideo...ropping-genders


Edited by RememberSchiff, 12 June 2017 - 02:02 PM.

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#2 F-P

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 06:07 PM

Interesting read.  Nothing new.

I just don't understand it.  Why don't they complain about Girl Scouts?


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#3 Gwaihir

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 08:05 PM

zzzzZZzZzZz.  If Boy Scouts was about the outdoors, maybe I'd agree.   There are however countless programs dedicated to "the outdoors".   Boy Scouts is about developing Boys.  period. 

"There are thousands of boys being wasted daily to our country through being left to become characterless, and, therefore, useless wasters, a misery to themselves and an eyesore and a danger to the nation. They could be saved if only the right surroundings or environment were given to them at the receptive time of their lives." - Baden-Powell

 

"Juvenile crime is not naturally born in the boy, but is largely due either to the spirit of adventure that is in him, to his own stupidity, or to his lack of discipline, according to the nature of the individual." - Baden-Powell

Juvenile crime is up, male incarceration rates are up, male drop out rates are up, males graduating high school and college is down.  (far below that of females).  Meanwhile girls are flourishing in our society with higher graduation rates in high school and college, higher grades and test scores, higher job placement.  

Boy Scouts being dedicated to boys is more important in 2017 than it's ever been.  Boys are losing their identity and being left behind to languish and fail.  

I will do everything in my own power to see that the Boy Scouts of America remains dedicated exclusively to the growth and development of boys.  Maybe a losing battle, but better to lose on principle than fall in line on populism. 

(ps. As stated above, I love how no one is demanding the Girl Scouts become co-ed and include boys... having a girl only dedicated organization is socially acceptable, having a boy only organization is progressively toxic... and there-in sums up this whole farce and galvanizes the war on boys 2017 faces)
 


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#4 Lenae

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 08:29 PM

I'm torn on the allowing girls in issue. I will, however, say that I personally believe the reason that girls are clamoring to join the BSA and the opposite isn't true of the GSUSA, is because the BSA offers a far superior program. Girl Scouts do crafts, learn how to be feminists, and SELL COOKIES. That's most certainly not anything my daughter wants to be involved with, however she'd love to become a Cub Scout like her brother, and have opportunities like BB gun shooting, archery, panning for gold, woodworking, fishing, hiking, camping, etc. The BSA may be a boys character development program, with an emphasis on the outdoors, but there just isn't anything comparable for girls, which is why many girls would like to see it become coed. 


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#5 Gwaihir

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 09:33 PM

I'm torn on the allowing girls in issue. I will, however, say that I personally believe the reason that girls are clamoring to join the BSA and the opposite isn't true of the GSUSA, is because the BSA offers a far superior program. Girl Scouts do crafts, learn how to be feminists, and SELL COOKIES. That's most certainly not anything my daughter wants to be involved with, however she'd love to become a Cub Scout like her brother, and have opportunities like BB gun shooting, archery, panning for gold, woodworking, fishing, hiking, camping, etc. The BSA may be a boys character development program, with an emphasis on the outdoors, but there just isn't anything comparable for girls, which is why many girls would like to see it become coed. 

 

There is more than enough opportunity to effect change within the Girl Scout program to incorporate those things.  Maybe no one wants to take on the GSUSA on the matter or start their own GSUSA unit and do those things with their girls.  Then again, maybe the demand by girls for those things is limited to a small outlier of girls and the GSUSA knows this, so they don't feel the need to modify their program.  I do know they just finished a survey last year for all girls and parents of girls (I participated in the survey) and camping was the clear and away winner of what members want to see in the program.  They've introduced a new camping badge, and are looking to expand there.  Seize on that success and drive change for girls in the girl program.  I keep failing to see why everyone is ready to pick up the torch of social justice and wield it against the Boy Scouts, but decide the torch is just too heavy to wield it against the Girls Scouts.  Let the Boy Scouts continue to serve boys.  


Edited by Gwaihir, 12 June 2017 - 09:34 PM.

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#6 ParkMan

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 12:26 AM

I still think that the BSA could easily get ahead of this by just offering to charter girls only packs & troops.  If girls want into the program, let them into the program.  This is easy to solve.

 

All the BSA is really doing is providing the framework for the program - it's up to local units to implement it.


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#7 Gwaihir

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 04:32 AM

I still think that the BSA could easily get ahead of this by just offering to charter girls only packs & troops.  If girls want into the program, let them into the program.  This is easy to solve.

 

All the BSA is really doing is providing the framework for the program - it's up to local units to implement it.

 

I think that would be a good solution... I don't think the GSUSA would be happy with that tho.  


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#8 Peregrinator

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 06:57 AM

"Because [current year]" has to be one of the lamest arguments for anything.
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#9 ParkMan

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 06:57 AM

I imagine they'd rather compete with all girl packs & troops than co-ed scouting.  


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#10 Sentinel947

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 07:50 AM

"Because [current year]" has to be one of the lamest arguments for anything.


Its a roundabout way to shame their adversarys for being old fashioned and shut down debates on the actual merits for their argument.

Edited by Sentinel947, 13 June 2017 - 07:50 AM.

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#11 Back Pack

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 08:55 AM

Its a roundabout way to shame their adversarys for being old fashioned and shut down debates on the actual merits for their argument.


It's 2017, shouldn't we be above this? ;)

Edited by Back Pack, 13 June 2017 - 08:55 AM.

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#12 Col. Flagg

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 09:29 AM

When one begins their thesis with overly PC language such as, "Born a heternormative white male into an upper middle-class American family, I’m about as privileged as it gets.", you've already lost at least 50% of your readers. And that assumes the other 50% know what you mean.

 

I'd rather he stick to reviewing outdoor gear than offer his advice on how an organization should change. I wonder if he'd be open to his magazine changing from outdoor focus to reviewing tea cups and indoor living. I mean, it's 2017 and change should be tolerated. 


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#13 Lenae

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 10:06 AM

I still think that the BSA could easily get ahead of this by just offering to charter girls only packs & troops.  If girls want into the program, let them into the program.  This is easy to solve.
 
All the BSA is really doing is providing the framework for the program - it's up to local units to implement it.


If I were to envision the BSA allowing girls in, this is how i would like to see it be done. A charter org could choose whether to offer a boys pack/troop, a girls pack/troop, or both a boys pack/troop and a girls pack/troop. They wouldn't be coed units, they would exist autonomously from one another. If units wanted to work together to run certain events, say a Pinewood Derby or a fundraiser, together, then allow them to do so, but the units would stay single gendered. Council events would be coed, but camps could run with boys weeks and girls weeks. I said before that I am torn on the issue, and I am. I love the program and everything it offers my son, and in theory I'd like my daughter to have the same opportunities. However, I wouldn't want to fundamentally change the program, and I think coed units would do that.
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#14 Col. Flagg

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 10:17 AM

If I were to envision the BSA allowing girls in, this is how i would like to see it be done. A charter org could choose whether to offer a boys pack/troop, a girls pack/troop, or both a boys pack/troop and a girls pack/troop.


Before ANY discussion can start about girls in Boy Scouts, local councils would need to address how they will deliver the Scouting program at their summer camps. Right now many camps barely have the facilities to accommodate female Scouters, let alone a whole troop of girls (or even a mix of girls).

 

I know my own council camp has trouble with even adults using the "flip the shingle" gender-use sign. Imagine all male units having to change their whole mind set around toilet and shower sharing.

 

You can't just flip a switch and become coed. Venturing has taught us that. There has to be significant thought given to facilities and whether or not there is adequate infrastructure to accommodate coed Scouting.


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#15 Gwaihir

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 10:28 AM

Before ANY discussion can start about girls in Boy Scouts, local councils would need to address how they will deliver the Scouting program at their summer camps. Right now many camps barely have the facilities to accommodate female Scouters, let alone a whole troop of girls (or even a mix of girls).

 

I know my own council camp has trouble with even adults using the "flip the shingle" gender-use sign. Imagine all male units having to change their whole mind set around toilet and shower sharing.

 

You can't just flip a switch and become coed. Venturing has taught us that. There has to be significant thought given to facilities and whether or not there is adequate infrastructure to accommodate coed Scouting.

 

stop talking about logic and planning.  push a button, it's 2017. 


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#16 RememberSchiff

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 10:32 AM

Separate facilities are mostly already done here in Northeast. Many camps book non-scout groups.


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#17 Eagledad

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 10:43 AM

zzzzZZzZzZz.  If Boy Scouts was about the outdoors, maybe I'd agree.   There are however countless programs dedicated to "the outdoors".   Boy Scouts is about developing Boys.  period. 
 

Well said.

 

Barry


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"Experience is the hardest teacher. It gives the test first, then the lesson."


#18 Col. Flagg

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 10:59 AM

stop talking about logic and planning.  push a button, it's 2017. 

 

LOL...too funny.

 

Separate facilities are mostly already done here in Northeast. Many camps book non-scout groups.

 

Not here. No where near. We struggle to handle the few Venturing Crew women we have. I could not imagine troops of 50 or more either all or part coed. 


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#19 Lenae

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 11:12 AM

Before ANY discussion can start about girls in Boy Scouts, local councils would need to address how they will deliver the Scouting program at their summer camps. Right now many camps barely have the facilities to accommodate female Scouters, let alone a whole troop of girls (or even a mix of girls).

 

I know my own council camp has trouble with even adults using the "flip the shingle" gender-use sign. Imagine all male units having to change their whole mind set around toilet and shower sharing.

 

You can't just flip a switch and become coed. Venturing has taught us that. There has to be significant thought given to facilities and whether or not there is adequate infrastructure to accommodate coed Scouting.

 

I'm in the PNW, most of my councils camps already offer girls weeks of summer camp, and do so successfully, so why not alternate weeks for camp? One week boys, the next girls, the following boys, then girls, and so on. Is there a reason that wouldn't work?


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#20 RememberSchiff

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 12:58 PM

According to the BSA National Camp Accreditation Program (NCAP), "procedures for separate use of restroom and  shower facilities  by males and females" has been in effect since 2013. :huh:

 
.

Edited by RememberSchiff, 13 June 2017 - 01:10 PM.

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