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Bill's last Course


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#1 TAHAWK

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 06:22 PM

A dear friend, Gone Home last October, attended an experimental Course years ago.  Bill was the "Scoutmaster."

 

My friend recalled 1987 near Dayton.  

 

I now have documentation showing the Course, EC 336 X, was at Camp Hook, Dan Beard Council (Cincinnati) in June, 1986.

 

That information has resulted in finding the names of nine other Learners, all from Kentucky.

 

One of them tells me the course was extensively filmed by National, which seems to have mislaid all records about the course.

 

I need to dig further.  This was the Omega to Bill's Alpha.

 

I hope to help place one more anchor for the memory of our greatest Scouter.

 

CDfONt5.png

 


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#2 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 07:00 AM

 

One of them tells me the course was extensively filmed by National, which seems to have mislaid all records about the course.

 

 

Why do I think it was deliberately mislaid?  It seems as if folks at national, and a lot of pro at the time, didn't like Bill for telling htem in advance the ISS program would not work, and then coming back in from retirement to fix Scouting.


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"Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt


#3 TAHAWK

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 08:48 AM

I don't know why you think that.    

 

He retired in 1965 and came out of retirement in 1978, and the new Handbook came out in 1979.

 

1978 Distinguished Eagle Scout

1979 Bill begins to tour the U.S. and World as ambassador for BSA , usually accompanied by BSA employees (until 1992).                            (Attended Greater Cleveland  Council Wood Badge Breakfast in 1992 to promote Wood Badge.)

1980 Silver Buffalo.  Citation reads "The Voice of Scouting"

1980 Publication of Bill's latest version of the Patrol Leader's Handbook

1985 BSA in Scouting said Bill was "“the foremost influence on development of the Boy Scouting program.”

1985 Bronze Wolf (endorsed by BSA)

1986  Allowed to run throw-back WB course based on original Course because he wanted to.

1993  Scouting: "No one modern-day Scouter had as far-reaching influence [on Scouting]"

1993 Jamboree - special tribute to Bill in program

1993 BSA establishes "Special Tribute Fund" in his name

2001 Scouting publishes tribute article.

 

It seems to me that the highest honors came in the second "life" in Scouting, post the Improved Scouting Program (1972)

 

All those who might have been embarrassed by his success almost forty years ago are dead.

 

2007  BSA publishes Wilderness Survival Merit Badge pamphlet with dangerously incomplete advice on treating anaphylactic shock, making wild water safe, prioritizing survival needs, outdoor clothing, and protection from sunburn. BSA plotting to kill Scouts or just not very good at their job?


Edited by TAHAWK, 09 June 2017 - 08:50 AM.

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#4 DuctTape

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 08:54 AM

the shame of Wilderness survival mb, is that it is many times a fluff mb for the newest scouts with little backwoods or camping experience. IMO, it should be one of the more advanced mbs and consistent with my wish for mbs to have pre-requisites, camping mb should be a pre-req for wilderness survival.

To stay on topic, my favorite bsa publication are the ones which GBB was a primary author.
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#5 Gwaihir

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 11:42 AM

the shame of Wilderness survival mb, is that it is many times a fluff mb for the newest scouts with little backwoods or camping experience. IMO, it should be one of the more advanced mbs and consistent with my wish for mbs to have pre-requisites, camping mb should be a pre-req for wilderness survival.

To stay on topic, my favorite bsa publication are the ones which GBB was a primary author.

 

first part: 100% agree.  

 

second part: 100% agree. 


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#6 fred johnson

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 02:14 PM

the shame of Wilderness survival mb, is that it is many times a fluff mb for the newest scouts with little backwoods or camping experience. IMO, it should be one of the more advanced mbs and consistent with my wish for mbs to have pre-requisites, camping mb should be a pre-req for wilderness survival.

To stay on topic, my favorite bsa publication are the ones which GBB was a primary author.

 

"mbs" to have pre-requisites" ... I'm slightly scared at that idea.  But then again, I'm open to it slightly for several reasons.  Some thoughts....

 

  • Wilderness Survival MB can be a fluff MB.  I've seen scouts earn it and really question whether they learned or grew.  But then I saw those same scouts years later building their own camping survival pack and planning to go into the woods and try it out.  So, the MB must have taught them something.  
  • Some pre-requisites make sense.  ... Maybe ...
    • First Aid .... maybe ... could be a pre-requisite for many badges.  then the badges could just review from first aid what is appropriate for their badge.  Minimize redundant content.  ...
    • Camping ?? ... for one or two ... I've seen too many scouts that take a few years to earn camping because of the number of nights involved.  Maybe use it as a pre-req for Wilderness Survival.  But I'd hate to see it as a pre-req for hiking or many other MBs that the scout might like to try.
    • Communication or Personal Mgmt ... As a pre-req for troop leadership ??  no. 

My main objection to pre-requisites is that it moves the MB program from picking and choosing by the scout to a structured set of rules like going for a college degree.  IMHO, the MB program is more for picking and choosing things that might interest the scout. 


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#7 ianwilkins

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 03:29 AM

"mbs" to have pre-requisites" ... I'm slightly scared at that idea.  But then again, I'm open to it slightly for several reasons.  Some thoughts....

 

    • First Aid .... maybe ... could be a pre-requisite for many badges.  then the badges could just review from first aid what is appropriate for their badge.  Minimize redundant content.  ...
    • Camping ?? ... for one or two ... I've seen too many scouts that take a few years to earn camping because of the number of nights involved.  Maybe use it as a pre-req for Wilderness Survival.  But I'd hate to see it as a pre-req for hiking or many other MBs that the scout might like to try.
    • Communication or Personal Mgmt ... As a pre-req for troop leadership ??  no. 

 

Just for interest...in the UK we have a bunch of staged activity badges that can be earnt by any section (except the 18+ Network)...

 

There's a 5 stage first aid badge, with stage 1 being "how to summon help or help someone who is unconscious or bleeding, to stage 5 which is a full 6-8 hour course. And many others on the same lines, with each stage getting progressively harder.

 

There's a nights away badge (and time on the water, and hikes) which are just a count of what you've done, which in theory are endless, but I believe the highest actually produced is 200. 

 

Oh, and before I came here, I'd never heard of this Bill fella, sounds like one of the good sort.


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#8 Gwaihir

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 12:23 PM

"mbs" to have pre-requisites" ... I'm slightly scared at that idea.  But then again, I'm open to it slightly for several reasons.  Some thoughts....

 

  • Wilderness Survival MB can be a fluff MB.  I've seen scouts earn it and really question whether they learned or grew.  But then I saw those same scouts years later building their own camping survival pack and planning to go into the woods and try it out.  So, the MB must have taught them something.  
  • Some pre-requisites make sense.  ... Maybe ...
    • First Aid .... maybe ... could be a pre-requisite for many badges.  then the badges could just review from first aid what is appropriate for their badge.  Minimize redundant content.  ...
    • Camping ?? ... for one or two ... I've seen too many scouts that take a few years to earn camping because of the number of nights involved.  Maybe use it as a pre-req for Wilderness Survival.  But I'd hate to see it as a pre-req for hiking or many other MBs that the scout might like to try.
    • Communication or Personal Mgmt ... As a pre-req for troop leadership ??  no. 

My main objection to pre-requisites is that it moves the MB program from picking and choosing by the scout to a structured set of rules like going for a college degree.  IMHO, the MB program is more for picking and choosing things that might interest the scout. 

 

First Aid is one of those skills where I would prefer the boys have redundancy, and redo things they've learned.  So I would like to see it as a pre-req but also see the skills needed in the badge shone to the MB councelor as well and not just glanced over.  Saving lives is something where having skills that are sharp, rehearsed and repeated result in higher success rate.  This isn't dabbling in collections or photography. 

I think Camping as pre-req for Wilderness Survival makes sense because they have such strong overlap.  

 

I agree with you that having the ability to pick and choose things you might be interested in is the benefit of the merit badge program, but I also think when used sparingly, having pre-reqs only strengthens the skills learned and makes the experience more enriching for the boy. 


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#9 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 06:08 PM

Regarding first aid skills and repetition in multiple MBs.

 

I admit I initially thought this was stupid. I thought if you had First Aid MB, you were good to go. 

 

But over the years I learned that first aid skills change over time. Any one remember when constrictor bands were used? Anyone remember when tourniquets were NOT recommended for serious bleeding, only to see them re-emerge? Anyone remember when CPR was Airway, Breathing, Compressions or 5 compressions to 2 breaths?  (aside, I remember the first time I heard about the current 30 compressions to 2 breaths. It was at a Scout meeting where a cardiologist told us the 5:2 is no good and we need to do 30:2, and that was over 25 years ago!)

 

So it's good to repeat the skills.

 

BUT THE KICKER (emphasis, not shouting at you, maybe shouting in SHOCK though ;) was this past camporee. We had a first aid event where a Life Scout had a very hard time doing simple T-2-1 First aid skills.  His excuse was he hadn't had that class ( first aid) since his first summer camp.

 

So I'm a beleiver of repetition. 


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"Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt


#10 TAHAWK

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 09:26 PM

 

 

Oh, and before I came here, I'd never heard of this Bill fella, sounds like one of the good sort.

Bill Hillcourt was the official biographer of this BP fella',  selected by Lady BP, perhaps because he was BP's close personal friend for decades and the most prolific Scouting author ever.  Bill was also proclaimed "Scoutmaster to the World" by the Journal of Scouting History.  Bronze Wolf recipient simply as a Scouter.


Edited by TAHAWK, 15 June 2017 - 09:28 PM.

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