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BSA Endorsement?


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#1 scoutldr

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 10:00 AM

So, I just caught a glimpse of a commercial for a Poison Ivy remedy and when they said "as used by the military and the Boy Scouts of America" and featured uniformed scouter (a commissioner, I think) it grabbed my attention.  So, has the BSA started endorsing commercial products?  I only saw it once and didn't catch the name of the product.


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#2 Col. Flagg

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 10:12 AM

So, I just caught a glimpse of a commercial for a Poison Ivy remedy and when they said "as used by the military and the Boy Scouts of America" and featured uniformed scouter (a commissioner, I think) it grabbed my attention.  So, has the BSA started endorsing commercial products?  I only saw it once and didn't catch the name of the product.

 

This maybe? Granted, they say they don't endorse (recommend) it, but you never know what the company did.

 

http://www.scouting....ety/zanfel.aspx

 

Which brings me to this little nugget. Note the logo in the middle...

 

https://www.zanfel.com/help

 

And BSA wonders why we (Scouters) question things they say or publish. While not an endorsement, a sponsorship by many will be seen the same way.   ;)


Edited by Col. Flagg, 24 May 2017 - 10:14 AM.

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#3 RememberSchiff

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 10:12 AM

Is "Officially Licensed" the same as an "Endorsement"?

 

https://www.buckkniv...collection/bsa/


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#4 scoutldr

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 10:16 AM

Zanfel.  Yep, that was it.  I thought using BSA uniforms and trademarks for commercial purposes was strictly prohibited???


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#5 Col. Flagg

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 10:29 AM

Zanfel.  Yep, that was it.  I thought using BSA uniforms and trademarks for commercial purposes was strictly prohibited???

 

It's BSA. It is likely prohibited for you and me, not for the members of the Politburo.  ;)


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#6 Tampa Turtle

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 10:30 AM

Well if YOU did it you would get in trouble.


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#7 RememberSchiff

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 11:03 AM

Well if YOU did it you would get in trouble.

And if a LOCAL COUNCIL did it, they would get in trouble.


Edited by RememberSchiff, 24 May 2017 - 11:03 AM.

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#8 skeptic

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 12:38 PM

For some reason, I find these kinds of threads confusing or simply irrational.  One of the big complaints that continue throughout the various discussions over the years is how we, as an organization, do so little to promote it.  We then see calls for going back to older ways of public exposure and such.  In the first few decades, up until after WWII, but especially through the first 35 years or so, Boy Scouts were in all kinds of ads, on business calendars, featured on magazine covers, and were widely respected as proponents of good health ideas and good citizenship examples.

 

When I do displays and show much of this older material that was so publicly accepted in our society, many immediately want to know why we no longer see it.  Well, one reason is we have too many people looking for excuses to put the program and organization in negative lights and to look for deep pockets in expensive legal actions that are cheaper to pay off than to fight.  

 

Now, if this is a poor product and not something that should be considered, among other similar products, then perhaps it should be reconsidered.  But, simply because it is not common anymore does not make it a bad thing, and maybe it could suggest more effort to find comparable opportunities that could benefit our public exposures.  

 

But, of course, I am old and out of touch with much of the modern realities, so probably I should just accept apparent knee-jerk responses to things that once would not have gotten a second glance.


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#9 Stosh

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 02:02 PM

I did notice that in spite of the fact that it had been on the package, the #12 Dutch ovens from Lodge no longer has the BSA logo on it.  It would do well for public relations to endorse certain items and get their logo out in front of the public more often.  To me, it might be as powerful a marking as the UL on electrical appliances and the Good Housekeeping seal on other household items.  Of course a bit of royalty dollars rolling in for such an endorsement wouldn't hurt the bottom line for BSA either.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#10 T2Eagle

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 10:46 AM

I agree with the spirit of Skeptic's post that knee jerk reactions are unwise.  But I'm beginning to think that the reaction for this particular product is warranted.

 

Last night a parent showed me the packing list for Jamboree, it specifically indicated each camper should pack Zanfel, the mother was asking me if I knew what that was, and because of this thread I did have some idea.  Note the packing list didn't say pack a poison ivy scrub, it specified this one.

 

This morning I went looking for more information about it.  I cannot find any scientific basis to the claim that this scrub works any better than other scrubs or soap and water, but I did find reason to be skeptical of the claim.

From Wikipedia: "Many home remedies and commercial products (e.g., TecnuZanfel) also claim to prevent urushiol rashes after exposure. A study that compared Tecnu ($1.25/oz.) with Goop Hand Cleaner or Dial Ultra Dishwashing Soap ($0.07/oz.) found that differences among the three—in the range of 56–70% improvement over no treatment—were nonsignificant (P > 0.05), but that improvement over no treatment was significant at the same level of confidence.[17]

 

And here's the kicker, this stuff costs $30 for a 1 ounce bottle.  And someone else could maybe help me out here, can anyone think of a significant chance of encountering poison ivy at the summit?  I'm sure it's there, but the trails were wide and well beaten, you'd have to go looking for that trouble to find it.


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#11 jwest09

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 11:56 AM

T2Eagle - is it really any different from how recipes on food packaging will tell you to use a specific brand of pasta, soup, salad dressing, etc?  Yes, its obviously an advertising thing, but anyone with common sense knows you can use whatever brand you want of 99% of these items, and you'll be just fine.

 

I mean, I agree with you, its obvious what the BSA is doing, and money is changing hands.  But it seems like such a trivial thing that's easily dealt with, assuming even a little common sense.


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#12 desertrat77

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 01:31 PM

In a similar vein, National has been doing this for years in Boy's Life and Scouting magazines.    Articles about "Great Gear for Your Next Hike," and the like, often tout outlandishly expensive Guicci gear that few scouts can afford.


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#13 NJCubScouter

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 04:03 PM

Is "Officially Licensed" the same as an "Endorsement"?

 

https://www.buckkniv...collection/bsa/

 

Wow, you know, just "licensed" wouldn't be a big deal, but OFFICIALLY licensed, now that's really impressive.   (That was an attempt at humor.)

 

And I wonder if they had to pay extra to use the phrase "PREPARED FOR LIFE" near the bottom of the ad.  Maybe not, because it looks like the BSA trademark is on "Prepared. For Life.", with the two periods.


Edited by NJCubScouter, 25 May 2017 - 04:08 PM.

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#14 scoutldr

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 06:59 AM

Just saw the commercial again several times on Fox News.  The front and center Scouter is a Professional (as determined by a square knot and position patch).  I guess that makes it an official endorsement.  Thanks to T2Eagle for the analysis above.  I will stick with Dawn liquid at a small fraction of the cost.


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#15 Sentinel947

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 07:48 AM

I've seen it on ESPN a few times. And I watch maybe 30 minutes of TV a week.
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#16 TAHAWK

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 09:06 AM

Notice the big buck product routinely suggested in Scouting.  Bleech!

 

A Scout is thrifty.   


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#17 SSScout

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 06:40 AM

My old time family doctor always said that you could do two things to a Poison Ivy rash:   If you washed it well, as soon as possible with warm water and Octogon soap, the rash would heal in ten days to two weeks.  If you treated it with Calomine lotion, it would heal in a week and a half to 14 days. 


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#18 NJCubScouter

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 08:18 AM

My old time family doctor always said that you could do two things to a Poison Ivy rash:   If you washed it well, as soon as possible with warm water and Octogon soap, the rash would heal in ten days to two weeks.  If you treated it with Calomine lotion, it would heal in a week and a half to 14 days. 

 

:)


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#19 CalicoPenn

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 10:55 AM

My old time family doctor always said that you could do two things to a Poison Ivy rash:   If you washed it well, as soon as possible with warm water and Octogon soap, the rash would heal in ten days to two weeks.  If you treated it with Calomine lotion, it would heal in a week and a half to 14 days. 

 

Hmmmm - reminds me of a certain weather forecasting rodent that makes a forecast about when Spring will arrive about 6 weeks before the end of Spring


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#20 CalicoPenn

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 11:12 AM

I would say that "officially licensing" something is an endorsement (the UK Royal Family has been doing this for decades) but we need to be careful - the BSA isn't endorsing ALL Buck Knives - just those they have "officially licensed".

 

There is a rule that Councils, Units and individual Scouters and Scouts can't endorse anything as Scouts, but that rule doesn't apply to National.  I think if we had the time, we could probably find a lot of other examples of these kinds of sponsorships/endorsements from Jamborees past (and yes, I consider a sponsorship to be another kind of endorsement - done in such a way so that the organization benefitting from the sponsorship can claim they aren't actually endorsing a product even though we all know they are).  At the last Jamboree, was there an official soft drink company?  You would know by the brand of sodas/fruit juices and probably water sold at the trading posts and in vending machines.

 

I looked at the official Jamboree Packing List.  Zanfel is not the only brand name on it.  It also says you should pack the official Osprey Jamboree Duffel and the Osprey Daylite daypack.  It's also apparent that the BSA is amateurs at this whole sponsorship game - look at all the lost opportunities in that packing list.

 

Sleeping pad?  Where's the Thermorest sponsorship.  Sleeping bag?  Where is the North Face sponsorship.  Sunglasses?  Where is the Oakleys (or Rayban) spsonsorship.  Soap?  C'mon Life Buoy, where are you?  Underwear?  Knocking on your door Jockey, Hanes or Fruit of the Loom.


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